Help choosing a Digital SLR

civileng68 said:
Now, one thing to realize is........the larger the sensor and the more megepixels will allow you to print larger photos without losing resolution. This is a HUGE factor since many cameras do not print 8X10's very well.
The size of the sensor is only part of the equation - a very important one, yes, but not the only one. There are many other factors to consider.

Obiously of all those cameras, the XTI is the better of them. However, lets assume you are NOT getting that one, for comparison of the others.
Why? I haven't seen any reason to rate the XTi higher than the competition apart from the on-paper higher resolution. I would not take this as an automatic assumption. DPReview's review actually had quite a number of gripes with it IIRC. (Not many relating to image quality, but other things.)

In today's age of cameras, I wouldn't go below 8 MP, so that takes the Pentax and Nikon D50 out (again, look into the NIkon D70s)
If you're chasing megapixels, you are generally gaining noise as well.

The Nikon has the largest sensor of any of them listed, which helps compensate for the lack of megapixels some but still, I wouldn't go below 8 MP.
FWIW, the Nikon and the Pentax use the same sensor.

ISO: The Pentax and Nikon D50 don't go below 200 ISO, so honestly those cameras cannot be considered. I'd demand that my camera go as low as 100 or 50, which the others do. The ISO will control how "clear" the image is. In lower light, you bump up the ISO to increase light but you also get more "graininess". The lower the ISO the clearer the image is. 200 is just to high for a lowest setting IMHO.
200ISO is the native resolution of the Sony sensor used in those cameras. Going below 200 will lower image quality. I can assure you that there is no noise with these cameras at that ISO (you won't notice any noise until 800 and then it's still very slight, especially compared to a PnS.)

With that said, if you are going to invest in this, go with either NIkon or Canon so you can buy Nikon or Canon lenses, which are definately better than an Olympus or off-name lense.
This is quite a bit of a generalization. Don't Canon fans often complain that the kit lens is subpar? Name a lens brand and no doubt we can easily find one great and one lousy lens from them.

All the lines have various superb lenses. And many third-party lenses are extremely good, as well. (Don't forget that Sigma makes a DSLR as well!)

In response to the original poster - feel is important, see if you can hold each one to check out the ergonomics. With the current $50 rebate, the Pentax K110D and K100D are outrageously affordable, and I'd spend the extra few bucks to get image stabilization on the K100D. They are clearly the cameras to beat in terms of value. I don't believe there are any significant downsides to them as compared to the competition, but the others are certainly all great cameras.
 
I have a question for those of you who have the digital expertise: to what degree is the limiting factor the lens's resolving power/sharpness, and to what degree is it the sensor? To ask it another way, if one is using a "consumer" (i.e., not $1500 pro glass) lens, would the sensor resolution (6MP vs 10MP) be all that significant?

You'll get quite a lot of different answers to this question because it's really not black and white. I would certainly think that the new 12mp sensors for point & shoots are a total waste, but it's a bit trickier with DSLR.

The first problem is that some consumer lenses are very good. The classic example is the standard 50mm prime. It's extremely simple to build a really good one. In fact, it gets harder the further from 50mm you go and the more zoom range you add in. A cheap 50mm prime is likely to outperform a really expensive wide ranging pro zoom at 50mm in every way.

The next problem is that even cheap zooms can often shoot OK at some ranges and apertures. If you take a typical zoom in the middle of it's range and shoot it stopped down a few stops (say f11), it will usually shoot quite well. I would be that if you compared a Canon 70-200 f2.8 lens (a really nice pro lens) shooting at f2.8 at 100mm with a Canon 70-300 f4-5.6 (a decent consumer lens) shooting at f11 at 100mm, they would probably perform similarly.

Finally, one of the biggest problems in getting the most from a camera setup isn't just the lens but the photographer. Lot's of technique errors often detract from getting the best sharpness. A lot of people use the reciprical rule for picking a shutter speed, but that's intended to get you to good enough, not critical sharpness. A lot of people focus on the wrong part of the subject or use focus lock on a moving subject. A lot of people shoot tripod shots but still push the shutter button manually or don't use mirror lockup.

Another problem with extremely dense sensors is diffraction. The smaller the pixels on the sensor, the sooner diffraction starts to become a problem. This is one reason why when comparing two sensors with the same resolution, the larger one can sometimes take better pictures. The effect of diffraction gets worse the smaller the aperture. It starts to become an issue somewhere around f11 on a 1.6x crop sensor and gets progressively worse as you stop down. This is a problem that cannot be fixed with better glass or better sensors, only wider apertures or larger sensors.

Finally, if everything else is equal, you will get more noise with a higher density sensor. If the don't change anything about the sensor design or image processing and simply pack more pixels on the same size sensor, you'll get more noise. Of course, everything else is rarely equal, so as they have increased the density of pixels on sensors they have also done a good job of decreasing noise as well.

That's probably a longer and more boring answer than you want. My simple answer is that after about 6mp, the law of diminishing returns sets in and improvements in megapixels start to matter a whole lot less. That's partly because of the limitations above. The other reason I stress that is that most people mentally compare pixel numbers linearly when they should compare them exponentially. When most people hear that the new Rebel XTi is 10 megapixels and the original Rebel was only 6 megapixels, they have this gut notion that they'll have almost twice the horizontal and vertical resolution. In fact, the pictures go from being 3072 pixels wide to 3888 pixels wide or an increase of just over 25%.

Excluding the old 3 megapixel Canon D30, I don't think that megapixels should be that big a factor in selecting a DSLR. For my shooting style, I'd put having more megapixels behind noise levels, autofocus speed, autofocus accuracy, autofocus coverage, ease of use, durability, buffer size, write speed, metering accuracy, or spot metering ability.

One other thing to consider is that if you camera is capable of shooting at a very high resolution and you want to shoot RAW, you can't throttle back. If you want to use smaller file sizes to fit more pictures on a card, shoot faster, or use less disk space, you're out of luck. Your only options are to either shoot full resolution or switch to JPG and giving up all the benefits of RAW. That's why a 1Ds is great for landscape shooters who take a lot of time getting each shot just right and a 1D is better for photojournalists.

OK, now that's way too much info.
 
MarkBarbieri said:
OK, now that's way too much info.

Mark, Actually, that is *excellent* info and has confirmed my suspicions about the importance (or lack thereof) of chasing megapixels. I think that for my purposes, a 6MP dslr will be very sufficient. Probably going to be D50, although the K100D and the K10D (for the sealing and SR more than the MP) are attractive as well.

Thanks very much for your detailed analysis of my question. Much appreciate your time and expertise.

~YEKCIM
 
I don't worry about megapixels very much, at least not unitl I print larger than 8x10. I have 3, 6, and 8 MP Canon dSLRs and can see very little difference between an 8x10 print from any of them.

Since 6 MP is the smallest you will find anyway, you can't lose with any of the current crop of dSLRs.

Lower ISO is not always the best deal, some cameras have more noise at ISO 160 than at ISO 400. Whatever the lowest setting the camera has is likely to be the best, but a direct comparison between brands is tricky. I doubt there is a significant difference between 100 and 200 on any of them.

If low light photography is your goal Canon's 20/30D series have lower high ISO noise than the Rebel series. SOme reports claim the Rebel XTi has more noise than the XT.
 

rebel XT here gets my vote. when it comes to low light shots you just adjust the setting. i love this camera. :banana:
 
Okay, now that my heads stopped spinning I can say a big THANKS to all who've posted. You've given me some great information.

The suggestions on lenses is very helpful.

This has really narrowed down my search now.
 
YEKCIM said:
Probably going to be D50, although the K100D and the K10D (for the sealing and SR more than the MP) are attractive as well.
I agree about the K10D. I plan to pick one up for my next camera for its many features but megapixels is not one of the big reasons.

Anxiously awaiting the first full reviews... and to see what Beach sells it for!
 





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