HELP! Are we good DVC candidates? UPDATED - We Joined!

[JonHM]

Several points: First, OKW is extremely large compared to BWV and VWL, so there are usually at least some vacancies there, even on short notice, from what I understand. It's also cheaper, points-wise, than either of the other two, so you could probably afford 1 bedroom villas over there, at least for some of your trips.
I believe the window at which you can cancel with no penalty is 30 days before arrival, so you could always make a guess and get reservations where you want to stay at either 11 or 7 months, depending, and then if you just can't go then, cancel a little more than a month in advance. That way, you're no worse off if you can't go then, you can still probably make last minute ressies somewhere, BUT if you *can* go then, you can stay whereever you'd like.
By the way, if you'd like to see more of the Wilderness Lodge besides what's been discussed already, Bucky LaRue has a fantastic gallery of WL pictures on his site:

http://gatosinternational.com/disney/vwl/VWL.html (Hope you don't mind, Bucky!)

As far as the 'sticker shock' goes, we viewed it like buying a car: it's a long term investment (not financial, more an entertainment or enjoyment investment ) that we'll get a lot out of. But whereas a car, comparably priced, won't be giving you anything back after 20 years, with DVC, you'll still have *another* 20 years of vacations for the price of maintenance fees...

 

[sgtpet]

Look at the other threads. I wouldn't buy at this juncture with the knowledge I have received about DVC.


I am disappointed and would think about not purchasing due to some of the false information they give you in their promotional video.


Flexibility in the real world of DVC is disappearing.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by sgtpet

Flexibility in the real world of DVC is disappearing.

The flexibility of using the DVC hasn't changed at all, unless you are trying to use your points to trade out of the DVC. And that hasn't even been confirmed yet. Staying in the DVC is just as flexible as it has been since day one.

 

[JonHM]

A lot of people are getting into a real frenzy about the other WDW Resorts going up in points, but there are several important facts to remember before condemning DVC:

First, and most importantly, those new point schedules AREN'T EVEN OUT yet, so much of the hysteria is based on conjecture.

Second, there have been posts confirming that the originally discussed increases that some people experienced are NOT across the board - there are even some parts of the calendar where the points have gone down for some of the WDW Resorts.

Third, staying at other WDW resorts has NEVER been a good value, points wise, compared to staying in a DVC resort.

Fourth, they were very upfront with us that perks such as the concierge collection and the Disney collection were renewed yearly and could go away at any time, it's not like they're going back on a promise or anything.

Oh yes, and Fifth, and most importantly, those new point schedules AREN'T EVEN OUT yet!

All I'm saying is let's wait and see what the schedules have to say, once released, before condemning DVC as a horrible value...

 

[sgtpet]

Sgtdisney, I have to disagree with you.

You're flexibility has decreased even within the DVC locations. As Disney gets closer and closer to selling out that eliminates FLEXIBILITY!

I have certainly put on the brakes for purchasing and I would advise anybody looking to buy in to withhold since the sales information is misleading at this juncture.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by sgtpet
Sgtdisney, I have to disagree with you.

You're flexibility has decreased even within the DVC locations. As Disney gets closer and closer to selling out that eliminates FLEXIBILITY!

I guess we can agree to disagree...

 

[JonHM]

If you don't mind, may I ask you a question? Did you ask a lot of questions of your salesperson at your DVC presentation? Because ours answered every direct question that we put to her with a completely honest, straightforward answer. And she was VERY clear that ALL of the Non-DVC collections are re-negotiated every year, and *could* go away at any time. So how is DVC being dishonest? Did they claim to you that they were permanent and/or guaranteed? Or did you assume that they were?

Also, what do you mean about losing flexibility the closer Disney gets to selling out? I assume you mean because VWL is almost sold out. But they ARE building BCV, right behind them, and then ECV (?) behind that... so where exactly does the loss of flexibility come into play? I'm not sure that I follow you there.

 

[sgtpet]

BCV will be so marked up that an owner at OKW will not be able to get in there with FLEXIBLITY. In addition EPV will be more than likely be the beginning of DVC II.

They can sell BCV at 90 a point and sell it out.

 

[JonHM]

When you are referring to BCV being 'so marked up', are you referring to $ per point, or points per room, per night?

How does that take away from the flexibility that a DVC owner has now and has had for the past 10 years? It sounds to me like you're chastising them not for taking away any flexibility, but for not adding to the flexibility that an OKW owner (or any other DVC owner) already has. I still don't understand how Disney charging either higher $ per point or pts. per night for BCV would somehow take away from the benefits that they currently enjoy.

And, most importantly, again, you are drawing very strong conclusions based on sheer speculation! Have any $ per point prices been announced for BCV by Disney? NO. Have any point schedules for the rooms been announced by Disney? NO. So you are getting upset and making very harsh judgements about the DVC based on what you are speculating that Disney *might* do.

 

[sgtpet]

You're absolutely correct it is speculation. To answer your BCV question, all of the above. The dollar amount per point will be greater and the amount of points needed per night will be so large that it will lower peoples ability to transfer and enjoy one of their DVC properties.

 

[JonHM]

I really don't think the problem for you is that DVC is somehow not the value that it once was, which is how you have portrayed it. Rather, it somehow seems that for *you*, DVC is not quite what *you* thought that it was when you first considered buying in.

First of all, as we've both pointed out, the scenario that you're envisioning for BCV is pure guesswork, and is not based on any info that has come out of Disney. That said, even if that worst case scenario that you envision *were* true, that would in NO way denegrate or lessen the benefits that a DVC member has always had. It would simply EXTEND those benefits to a lesser degree than you would like. Even under that worst case scenario, DVC members would still have MORE options for locations within WDW to stay on points, NOT less. Even if their points wouldn't go as far as they would like, or if they couldn't buy as many points as a BCV add-on as they would like, they would still NOT be losing flexibility. They would still be GAINING flexibility, just not as much as you would like. But those same DVC owners could still buy re-sales for far less $/point at OKW, or stay for fewer points per night at OKW, BWV or VWL. The flexibility would remain in place, it would still be there, simply not to the extent that you would prefer. And that is fine. If DVC is not what you thought it was, if it is not for you, don't buy in. But you've been running around today trying to portray DVC as somehow breaking promises right and left, and lessening the benefits that it's members enjoy.

Think about this: They COULD stop building new DVC resorts, instead of building new ones for higher $ and higher points.

They COULD try (they can't, really, because they've committed not to. But since we're going on sheer speculation here, let's run with it ) to raise the points per night required to stay at OKW.

Now, THOSE things, if Disney tried them, WOULD be lessening benefits and taking away flexibility. But continuing to build newer DVC resorts at a higher price in NO way is going against ANY promises they've made.

 

[sgtdisney]

If you apply logic to the scenario regarding BCV, you will understand that the BCV will probably become the most popular DVC resort. It is attached to one of the most popular regular resorts on the propery. It is all a matter of supply and demand. OKW for all it's charm and beauty does not have the location of BWV or BCV, it is for this reason that the points are lower at OKW than they are at BWV. It is the same way with The Grand Floridian. The prices for a cash reservation are the highest there because that is the flagship resort. There are many resorts in the deluxe catagory, and they all have different rack rates. Why? Supply and Demand. This follows through with DVC as well. BCV will be in the highest demand when it opens. As such it will have the highest point per night cost. It is a fact of life in a free market society. DVC members have the ultimate flexibility and can decide for themselves if the location and the cache of BCV is worth the extra point cost over BWV, VWL or even OKW. That is the one of the wonders of the DVC, the flexibility and options available to ALL members.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Here here, Sgtdisney! The buy where you want to stay scenario is proven in your statements. We don't care that we have to ride a bus, we are more interested in the size, style, quiet location etc, so we own at OKW. Sure, we would like to stay at BCV sometime, but is it worth taking one less trip? Who knows. Maybe sometime in the future it will be, but for us right now, we will stay where we are planted. The flexiblility is that we KNOW we can if we want to.

 

[normr]

Jon, they CAN'T raise the points to stay at OKW, it has to stay the same for the whole year by Florida law, yes they can reallocate points around like raising weekday and lowering weekends or by seasons, but if one goes up, another has to go down, the total has to remain the same by law.

 

[Ricola]

Thanks for all the replies! I'm overwhelmed right now by all the information! Thank you all for taking the time to help us with this decision.

Granny, thanks for the advice on seeing WL first. We've visited the lodge, and we like it just fine. The fact that it's a little less convenient than BWV transportation-wise doesn't bother me in the least. We like the buses. We're used to staying in the moderates; VWL seems at least comparable to them as far as transportation goes, and frankly, less convenient usually means less hectic also, which is a good thing. If we never got to stay in the other DVC properties, we'd still be happy there. Waiting for the BCV isn't really an option for us either; we just don't like the YC/BC, and I doubt BCV will change our minds.

dianeschlicht - Hi! Thanks for the info. I'd love to own @ OKW, it seems like such a great point "value" compared to the others, but I think we'll have to do it as an add-on. Enjoy your Hawaii trip next April; it'll be a nice warmup after winter in MN .

JohnHM - I think we've got the "sticker shock" thing beaten. Comparing it to a car is pretty effective. Besides, we're already spending the money at Disney already, with DVC we'll just get to stay in nicer places for about the same $$.

sgtpet, sgtdisney, and JohnHM - seems like flexibility is a touchy subject, especially as regards the future. I guess I have to base my decision on a "worst case" scenario. Worst case, all DVC properties sell to capacity, noone "trades" points externally we buy VWL have to make ressies 11 months out, and maybe have to keep trying until we can get in. Not a great scenario, I'll admit, but still, not all that bad compared to other time share situations. (Our St. Thomas resort has been sold full for years, they no longer do "internal exchanges", so we use our "week" in our 1BR. No flexibility unless we want to pay to exchange to elsewhere. We still love it!) With DVC we'll have flexibility on the length of our stay, and to some degree, the time of year we choose to stay. Frankly, other than exchanging to other DVC properties, we personally aren't interested in external exchanges because we already have a pretty good opportunity with our existing timeshare. As long as Disney keeps building new DVC properties (why wouldn't they? they are pretty profitable for them...) some people will use their points to try the new, more "expensive" places, making the older "less expensive" DVC resorts less full, and therefore more flexible. (Seems like this has already happened with OKW. ) I don't find the materials I've gotten from Disney to be misleading, but then again, I've pretty much just skimmed through the parts relating to external exchanges. They might be a selling feature for some people, but not for us.

Finally got our new packet from DVC (we had an old one from before VWL started selling) and had a chance to talk with DW about it in more detail. We're getting closer to joining, and we're considering buying 200 points @ VWL through Disney. Right now, I don't think buying a resale is practical for us financially. (We will need financing.)

We arrived at this number because it seems like with banking, (and maybe a little borrowing) we could alternate years staying (off-peak) a week in a studio one year, then a 2BR the next year (bring some friends or family with, perhaps). Or at least be able to do 5-6 nights in a 1BR every year, except for "Premiere" time, without any banking or borrowing. I think we're happy with the value even in the "worst case" scenario.

I'm sure that some day, especially if our family grows, we will want to add-on more points, though, which leads me to my next question:

I'm wondering about owning points at multiple resorts. I understand that you can do a once a year transfer of points to another DVC member. Can you also do this between your own "points accounts"? Say we had 200 points at VWL and 200 at OKW, can we "transfer" the VWL points to OKW account and make an 11 month ressie at OKW worth 400 points? Do people ever "swap" points, ie I'll give you 200 VWL points for your 200 BWV points, thus allowing me to make my ressies earlier?

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[SwampFox]

would think about not purchasing due to some of the false information they give you in their promotional video.

Just curious what "false information" you found in the video and where you got all of you supposed information about BCV.

It seems you have some really unusual views of DVC and are eager to offer this as misinformation here.

There has been no announcement from DVC about costs for BCV- that is pure imaginative speculation. To base other assumptions on speculation and misinformation is pretty senseless.

It sounds as though you are much better off to back away from DVC. Glad you were able to avoid all of the misery that members have to endure.

I'm glad I'm such a glutton for punishment and will be stuck in my ignorance for another 40+ years.

Ahhh well, one man's heaven is another man's ..........

 

[dbkelly]

I just bought a resale for OKW. I bought a contract with a lot of banked points. I paid $65 per point, but after I rented the banked points it only cost me $52 per point. I highly recommend Jaki at atimeshare.com. She is wonderful and she will get you what you want. Tell her that Doris sent you.

 

[Ricola]

Originally posted by Ricola
I'm wondering about owning points at multiple resorts. I understand that you can do a once a year transfer of points to another DVC member. Can you also do this between your own "points accounts"? Say we had 200 points at VWL and 200 at OKW, can we "transfer" the VWL points to OKW account and make an 11 month ressie at OKW worth 400 points? Do people ever "swap" points, ie I'll give you 200 VWL points for your 200 BWV points, thus allowing me to make my ressies earlier?

Thanks, Ric.

 

[wdwendyd]

I am new to this but I tell you what I've gathered from reading these boards. Points stay with their original resort. So in your example, your 200 VWL points would stay VWL points and you could not use them to get the 11 month window at OKW. There is no real purpose in transferring points to yourself, as you already have the (11-month window) benefit (at their home resort) the points have to offer.

If you transfer between DVC members, you can only do this once a year, in or out. So if your points were going to expire December and you weren't going until next year, you could transfer them to someone who was going in, say, November. But they couldn't transfer back to you points that expire later because they've already used their one transfer. But they could make a reservation for you instead of transfering.
Did I totally confuse you?

I think people swap reservations rather than points, if that distinction is clear.

 

[raidermatt]

Didn't read all the replies, but I thought I'd comment on your question about the sales presentation.

We did not go through the presentation, we just watched the "DVC channel" in the room while getting ready in the morning.

We then called after returning home and were sent all of the info, including a video. The other timeshare presentations I have been to were high pressure and they either wanted our signature on the spot, or not at all. I find that EXTREMELY shady and will never buy anything of substance under those circumstances. With DVC, we had the abilty to read the material at our own pace, and call with questions. (and check out this board, of course )