HELP! Anyone have anything good to say about Olympus? :)

[write2caro]

I am looking to buy my 1st dSLR and have done a fair bit of research. I was down to a Sony Alpha A100, Nikon D40x, and the Olympus E-510. I eliminated Nikon because I want IS. I had pretty much settled on the Olympus until I checked out this board, and now I'm not so sure. I've seen comments about Olympus being like "another breed" altogether - what does this mean? Seemed like people were scared away from Olympus as a result.

Anyone out there with really good or really bad Olympus experiences?

Just when I thought I was ready to buy...

 

[DVC Jen]

I had an olympus pns for a few years. I really liked it - until SOMEONE dropped it.

 

[Groucho]

Want to hear something good about Olympus? They're not Canon!

Kidding, kidding.................

What about the Pentax line? They offer in-body IS and IMHO have a more attractive offering than Sony or Olympus in terms of price, lenses available (and price of them), and features. Your mileage may vary, of course.

The things that make the Olympus line unique are...
1) The "standard" 4/3rd sensor. This is, as the name implies, a 4:3 ratio like a point-n-shoot camera, not a 3:2 ratio like a 35mm camera or any non-4/3rds DSLR (ie, everyone except Olympus and I think Panasonic.)
2) The 4/3rds sensor is, by design, a bit smaller than the APS-sized sensor in most other DSLRs. This allows the camera and the lenses to be smaller (and gives you a 2x crop factor instead of the 1.5x-1.6x on most other DSLRs) but it also means more noise at higher ISOs. The E510 specifically also seems to have some strange noise settings, I've seen in a few reviews that you need to fiddle with the settings to get the best results in terms of noise.
3) Some have Live View available, which lets you use the large rear LCD to frame your photos, like a point-n-shoot, but with limitations on focusing, etc. It also leads to a smaller, dimmer viewfinder. I've gotten the impression that most people will end up sticking with the viewfinder but obviously that's a personal choice.

The good is that they supposedly have one of the best kit lenses, comparable to the Pentax - ie, metal mount, "true" focus ring (not rotating the front of the lens), and a non-rotating front element, which makes it... ummm, I have to phrase this just right... it makes it easier to use a circular polarizer. Good optics, too.

And, it's certainly capable of excellent results, like any DSLR.

I'm not sure what the lens adapter situation is, but in terms of 4/3rds lenses, you're fairly limited because the mount is so new, whereas other DSLRs will generally give you a pretty wide selection of legacy used lenses to choose from.

I'd also be concerned that the E510 is so new, that you're likely to pay premium prices for the next couple months. Beach has it for $800 - that's more than you can get a K10D for (after rebate). That's a lot of money for the class that the E510 is positioned at - I bet it'll have some decent drops in price soon. The older Olympuses are selling for no more than $500.

 

[ukcatfan]

One other result of the smaller sensor is that you will always have a larger DOF. The control over DOF is one of the reasons that I bought a DSLR, so I would never go for a 4/3 based system. Also, when I print it is usually a 4x6, so I would have to crop every shot out of a 4/3 based camera.

Kevin

 

[Master Mason]

There are two or three olympus users on the site, they use them to take some pretty spectactular pictures.

Groucho did a good job of covering the pro's and con's IMO. But the bottom line is get the camera that suits you, not the camera that suits anyone else. Your the only one you have to please with your purchase.

 

[Reminiscing_Cody]

I've had the E-510 with the two lens kit for two weeks now, and I've been immensely happy with it so far. It's my first DSLR, so I'm definitely no pro, but I guess I'll respond to some things Groucho said, like any good brand-zealot should Just kidding, I'm not married to the brand just yet, and I almost went the Pentax route.

The 4:3 ratio is what it is.. an advantage to some, a disadvantage to others. If you only ever print 4"x6", it's a disadvantage. Any other common print size requires cropping whether it is 4:3 or 3:2.

In my decision process I took my own test shots with the Pentax K10D, Sony A100, and Olympus E-510. It was actually the Sony that had the high ISO noise problems, the K10D had a very small advantage over the E-510, virtually negligible. Nothing weird about the noise settings other than the (unique) ability to control how much noise filtering is done, and even disable it. (The pixel-peeping reviewers have made everyone believe the best setting is off with the sharpness control turned down, but I think low or normal look better when viewed full screen or printed)

Live View usefulness is limited to certain situations, but I have definitely been using it.

It does have a smaller viewfinder, but it is pretty bright.

The kit lenses have excellent optics, and are ridiculously small. They are plastic with a plastic mount, but don't feel cheaply built to me, just very light. The digital focus ring took a bit of getting used to.

I was decision-locked between the K10D and the E-510 for several weeks. What finally made up my mind was spending an hour at a camera store with the 2 side by side. The Pentax started to feel bulky after using it for a while, and since most of the situations I'm going to take my camera along are when I'm mobile (vacations, hiking, doing stuff with my family) I ultimately felt it was a camera I'd be more willing to take more places instead of my P&S.

If you have any other questions for someone that has one, ask away!

 

[Anewman]

The 4:3 ratio is what it is.. an advantage to some, a disadvantage to others. If you only ever print 4"x6", it's a disadvantage. Any other common print size requires cropping whether it is 4:3 or 3:2.

Actually the 3:2 ratio requires no cropping with a few now common print sizes... 4x6, 8x12, 12x18 and 20x30.

While I can not think any commonly available print sizes that are in the 4:3 ratio.

I do agree it is not a big deal, but with already a smaller sensor never printing the full capture only exaggerates the issue in the opinions of some.

That being said it is still a very capable camera line, and users produce great images.

 

[Anewman]

I am looking to buy my 1st dSLR and have done a fair bit of research. I was down to a Sony Alpha A100, Nikon D40x, and the Olympus E-510.

Well IMO of the three cameras you are considering the SONY is the BEST camera all the way around and also the Least expensive.

Order online for $600(body only) and pick up at your local circuit city in 24 minutes. No rebate hassle involved.

Just so you know I am a lifetime Canon shooter.

 

[ukcatfan]

It was actually the Sony that had the high ISO noise problems, the K10D had a very small advantage over the E-510, virtually negligible.

Everything I have seen seems to indicate that the noise reduction is why the Oly looks similar to the APS-C cameras. The NR decreases the sharpness. With the smaller sensor, there really is no physical way to have the same levels of noise unless they have come up with some huge advance in signal processing that nobody knows about (unlikely b/c they would be talking about it if they had). I suspect that if you compared RAW files of those three cameras, the Pentax and Sony would be very similar and the Oly would have more noise.

I am not saying that it is not a capable camera, but unless good light telephoto work is your main situation, I think any APS-C camera is more useful in more situations. For example, for low light work, most systems have a 50mm that goes as wide as f/1.4, but the only one I can find for 4/3 is f/2.0, plus with the 2x factor, the 50mm is getting a little too tight for my taste.

Kevin

P.S. To be fair, I found a 25mm f/1.4 from Panasonic, but it is $800 where the Pentax 50mm f/1.4 is around $175.

 

[write2caro]

Wow - thanks to all for the replies!! Perhaps if I mention how I most want to use the camera the "best" choice will be clear to some! I take A LOT of photos of my kids indoors, so low light (we live in an OLD house with not-the-best-lighting, too!) conditions and capturing very fast toddlers is important to me. I do want it to be as portable as can be expected, because I also want to take it on vacations, of course. I do lots of cropping all the time, so that aspect of the 4:3 doesn't really bother me too much.

I did spend some time with the A100 and E510 at a local camera store, and the E510 just "felt right" in some ways - not sure how much weight I should place on that, exactly? The anti-dust system and anti-shake preview on-screen of the E510 seemed like some things that may be quite useful?? I have not physically seen the K10D, though.

The full review on Camera Labs seemed to favor the E510 over the A100 - maybe you guys can tell me how much stock to put in that review?? I'm so new to this. The full review is not up yet on dpreview - don't know how long that will take?

Thanks to all for your help on this!! There is a bit of a learning curve with all of this and I do find any input helpful.

 

[write2caro]

1) As a new dSLR user, is there value in buying the camera from a local store, where they will remain available for questions/problems, even if it's more expensive? OR - is there just so much help online through forums, etc. that it's not that big a deal?

2) OK... probably a stupid question, but here goes... is there any issue down the line using an IS lens with a camera that has in-body IS? I was assuming that since I can turn IS off (in the E510, I know for sure), that this wouldn't be an issue, but thought I should check.

 

[Reminiscing_Cody]

For me, there is piece-of-mind value in buying from a local store if it is a good store with smart, unbiased employees and not-too-outrageous prices on things like memory cards. I found an endless stream of rude, pushy know-nothings and crazy accessory markups in my area when I was looking, so I bought online. Interestingly enough, the online prices on the 510 2 lens kit have actually gone up since I got mine, I guess it is selling well. The online price value for a camera that has been out longer is much greater.

IS can be toggled on both the lens and the camera. CameraLabs proved that they don't work together for even better results, they actually fight each other. Sidenote: there is only 1 IS lens available for 4/3rds from Leica/Panasonic, with 3 others planned for release, and they are pricey.

P.S. ukcatfan: Sigma makes a 30mm f/1.4 for 4/3rds, about $430. Someone on here (Groucho?) recently called that Pentax prime one of the "all time great" Pentax lenses. At that price, that is probably true

 

[ukcatfan]

Wow - thanks to all for the replies!! Perhaps if I mention how I most want to use the camera the "best" choice will be clear to some! I take A LOT of photos of my kids indoors, so low light (we live in an OLD house with not-the-best-lighting, too!) conditions and capturing very fast toddlers is important to me. I do want it to be as portable as can be expected, because I also want to take it on vacations, of course. I do lots of cropping all the time, so that aspect of the 4:3 doesn't really bother me too much.

I did spend some time with the A100 and E510 at a local camera store, and the E510 just "felt right" in some ways - not sure how much weight I should place on that, exactly? The anti-dust system and anti-shake preview on-screen of the E510 seemed like some things that may be quite useful?? I have not physically seen the K10D, though.

The full review on Camera Labs seemed to favor the E510 over the A100 - maybe you guys can tell me how much stock to put in that review?? I'm so new to this. The full review is not up yet on dpreview - don't know how long that will take?

Thanks to all for your help on this!! There is a bit of a learning curve with all of this and I do find any input helpful.

If low light (without flash) is important to you, then I would take Olympus off the list. As I noted earlier, you have to spend a minimum of $400 for the 4/3 50mm f/2 and that would likely be a little too much focal length for indoor home use. It might not be too much for indoor WDW attractions though. Plus, you are only getting f/2 where with Pentax you get f/1.4 at only $175. With C&N (not D40 or D40x though) you can get their 50mm f/1.8 lenses for around $100. There is the option of the 4/3 25mm f/1.4, but at $800, you are starting to get into a serious investment.

You should actually put more weight on the "feel" than you think. I have never touched the Oly, but I was not thrilled by the Sony either. For a little smaller in Pentax, consider the K100D. Some think that the 6MP is just too low, but in terms of true usable resolution, 6MP on a DSLR beats any p&s, even the 10MP ones. The K10D is going to be a little larger. You might also want to look at the Rebels if you want it to be small. I personally don't like their feel, but you might.

It has been pretty much reviewed by the pros out there that every brand's anti-dust system is next to worthless and will not ever keep you from having to invest in a good blower and cleaning kit. I recommend the Giottos Rocket Blower.

As for the live LCD, I cannot see how it would be worth it unless it could be moved around similar to the one on the Canon S3. You will really appreciate the clarity of the viewfinder on a DSLR and will likely only use it in a few situations. Besides, it is better shooting form to hold the camera to your eye. It is more stable that way and will reduce shake compared to holding it out in front of you.

1) As a new dSLR user, is there value in buying the camera from a local store, where they will remain available for questions/problems, even if it's more expensive? OR - is there just so much help online through forums, etc. that it's not that big a deal?

2) OK... probably a stupid question, but here goes... is there any issue down the line using an IS lens with a camera that has in-body IS? I was assuming that since I can turn IS off (in the E510, I know for sure), that this wouldn't be an issue, but thought I should check.

Local stores will not likely support you much better unless you are willing to shell out a little more and take classes from them and so on. The big box stores are likely not going to give you very good support at all. I think with Circuit City, once you pass thirty days you deal with the manufacturer anyway. If you buy an extended warranty, then Best Buy might offer a little better service.

Currently there are no systems offering IS in both the camera and lens. It should work on paper, but nobody has tried and likely will not because the benefits over just one way would be small.

Kevin

 

[ukcatfan]

IS can be toggled on both the lens and the camera. CameraLabs proved that they don't work together for even better results, they actually fight each other. Sidenote: there is only 1 IS lens available for 4/3rds from Leica/Panasonic, with 3 others planned for release, and they are pricey.

I did not know about these upcoming IS lenses, but like it is stated, they likely will not work together. It would take some strong computing power to make it happen and current firmware is likely not up to the challenge at this point. The IS lenses might even auto force off the in body IS. I do not believe that Panasonic is going the in body IS route, so that is probably why these are on the way.

Kevin

 

[Anewman]

The full review on Camera Labs seemed to favor the E510 over the A100 - maybe you guys can tell me how much stock to put in that review?? I'm so new to this. The full review is not up yet on dpreview - don't know how long that will take?

Well how relevant that review is depends on your personal preferences.

I did notice that that review feels that the Sony has superior AF and a bigger viewfinder, while the Olympus does have more features. Only you can decide if you are going to use those features and how important those features are to picture quality.

Wow - thanks to all for the replies!! Perhaps if I mention how I most want to use the camera the "best" choice will be clear to some! I take A LOT of photos of my kids indoors, so low light (we live in an OLD house with not-the-best-lighting, too!) conditions and capturing very fast toddlers is important to me.

I can see how everyone gets caught up in the high ISO noise issues and it is important, but pretty much all DSLRs deliver usable ISO 1600 images if you are going to print small(unless you crop too much). In reality the LENSES available for each camera is a bigger differentiating factor right now for low light shooting. Olympus does make some great affordable lenses that cover a nice focal range, but they tend to be on the slow side requiring mucho light.


As for Speed, for burst shooting SONY can shoot at 3fps until the card is full while the Olympus maxxes out at I believe 12 shots. Not sure if this would make a difference with toddlers, but I would say that the camera with better AF has an advantage when shooting subjects that cant sit still.

 

[pyrxtc]

Popular Photography and Imaging just put outa review of the E- 510 this month (August 2007). i am looking into it but haven't yet picked it up to play wiht it in a store. I can't believe that i read that it has plastic mounting rings though. if it does, it would turn me right off. I don't know if it has many advantages over the E-500 though and that may help me in my decisions to get another E-500 body and another lens. i think the Olympus Evolts are a wonderful camera, even though that sin't the census on this board. I ahve taken some absolutely amazing pictures with it.

The Terri Clark pictures were taken while she was onstage with stage lights going and her moving.

 

[write2caro]

Wow! Those are great photos - thanks for posting them!! I would be very happy if after LOTS of practice I got those kinds of shots!

I'm still on the fence about this purchase! The local camera store (where the staff seems unbiased and very helpful) doesn't carry the Pentax K10D, so I'd have to look elsewhere to see it in person. They said I can get the E510 with the 2 lenses from them for $979. The exact same thing online is $890. I also found the same thing for $999, but it included 2GB card, tripod, gadget bag, lens cleaning kit, etc. (none of which look like necessarily what I would choose, except for the memory card). The shop says they offer one-on-one help whenever I would need it - no time limits, no extra charge. Hmmm...

Thanks to ALL of you again for taking the time to give me input - it really is helpful, and I really appreciate it!!

 

[Groucho]

The couple E510 reviews I've looked at seemed a little inconsistent. One mentioned real problems with underexposure, another commented on how good the exposure was, for example.

Comparing the E510 to the A100, you have to remember that the A100 is getting a little long in the tooth already and is not going to have some of the latest features that a camera that was just released will have. With DSLRs, image quality is almost a given, so often the choices come down to usability, feel, etc.

I can see how everyone gets caught up in the high ISO noise issues and it is important, but pretty much all DSLRs deliver usable ISO 1600 images if you are going to print small(unless you crop too much). In reality the LENSES available for each camera is a bigger differentiating factor right now for low light shooting.

I don't really agree. If someone wants zoom lenses, they're pretty much stuck with nothing faster than F2.8 no matter how much they spend - and that's really not that fast compared to a good prime. There are plenty of situations at Disney parks (and this is a Disney site, after all) where F2.8 and ISO 1600 is still not going to cut it. And unless someone buys a prime for every focal length and doesn't mind switching them, chances are that they're going to be getting by with bumping the ISO in low light. (Not that carrying a lot of primes is a bad idea, I remember throwing some numbers together a few months ago when Jann1033 and I were talking about it, and three Canon primes cost less, weighed less, and were faster than buying an equivalent fast zoom.)

As for Speed, for burst shooting SONY can shoot at 3fps until the card is full while the Olympus maxxes out at I believe 12 shots. Not sure if this would make a difference with toddlers, but I would say that the camera with better AF has an advantage when shooting subjects that cant sit still.

If you're including the E510, you can also include the K10D as its cheaper than the Oly, which can also 3fps 'til your card is full. But yes, it's going to cost a bit more than the Sony; it's positioned above it market-wise. But financially, the E510 at its current price is clearly selling for more than it really should, IMHO - like most new cameras do. (Certainly upon release, the D40X also sold for much more than it should, but prices seem to be coming down now.)

Ultimately, though, the 4/3rd-sensor cameras are fairly unique and hard to compare directly the the rest of the pack.

P.S. ukcatfan: Sigma makes a 30mm f/1.4 for 4/3rds, about $430. Someone on here (Groucho?) recently called that Pentax prime one of the "all time great" Pentax lenses. At that price, that is probably true

Actually, I called it one of the all time great lenses, period. If you look around, you'll find many people using M42 adapters to use older screw-mount Pentax Super Takumar 50mm F1.7 and F1.4 lenses on their Canons and other DSLRs, because the lens is so darn good - and they're so common that you can pick up a manual-focus one for easily under $100, grab an M42 adapter, and start making fantastic quality photos.

As for the Sigma, I did consider the 30mm F1.4 before picking up my new Tamron F2.8 zoom, but from the research I did, I just wasn't convinced that it was worth what they were asking. Some of Sigma's other wider fast primes seem to be getting so-so reviews too - which is unfortunate, I'd really love to have some more options in that field, but Sigma seems to be the only third-party who's really making more than one or two primes.

 

[Anewman]

I can see how everyone gets caught up in the high ISO noise issues and it is important, but pretty much all DSLRs deliver usable ISO 1600 images if you are going to print small(unless you crop too much). In reality the LENSES available for each camera is a bigger differentiating factor right now for low light shooting. Olympus does make some great affordable lenses that cover a nice focal range, but they tend to be on the slow side requiring mucho light.

I don't really agree. If someone wants zoom lenses, they're pretty much stuck with nothing faster than F2.8 no matter how much they spend - and that's really not that fast compared to a good prime. There are plenty of situations at Disney parks (and this is a Disney site, after all) where F2.8 and ISO 1600 is still not going to cut it. And unless someone buys a prime for every focal length and doesn't mind switching them, chances are that they're going to be getting by with bumping the ISO in low light. (Not that carrying a lot of primes is a bad idea, I remember throwing some numbers together a few months ago when Jann1033 and I were talking about it, and three Canon primes cost less, weighed less, and were faster than buying an equivalent fast zoom.)

I really dont understand what part exactly you are trying to disagree with

 

[Groucho]

I really dont understand what part exactly you are trying to disagree with

I disagree that lenses are more important than ISO performance when considering a system to buy into. As far as I know, nobody, no matter how you spend, offers a zoom faster than F2.8. At that F-stop, you'll going to need high ISO performance in low light.

Once you choose a system, then yes, fast lenses are most important because you can't do anything about the ISO performance with a given camera.

But it's not like one like has worse ISO performance but faster lenses across the board, thereby alleviating the disadvantage of the ISO performance.

FWIW, this might be a good time to drag out my sensor size chart again.

For those who aren't familiar with them, the APS is pretty much the size of the sensors in the Sony/Nikon/Pentax cameras (1.5 crop factor), the Canons are slightly smaller (1.6 crop factor), and the Olympus uses the 4/3rd sensor. The white bars at the top and bottom are because it's a different ratio than the photo I used.