Heard some FP kiosks were uncovered in MK today

[capegirl]

Same-- we leave 2 weeks from Weds, and so afraid I might miss the boat !!

We are about 2 1/2 weeks out, so yeah, the ship might sail without us.

 

[nkereina]

Oh, but they would if we stopped going due to the increased cost. Everyone has their breaking point. I suspect we wouldn’t be the only ones.

It’s always that balancing game.

Dan

For every one family where Max Pass would be a deal breaker, there's probably 5 families that would be more than willing to pay it. And if its modeled the same as Max Pass in DL, it would be optional as I mentioned. So from Disney's perspective, it could be worthwhile since it would be another revenue stream.

 

[DisneyFive]

For every one family where Max Pass would be a deal breaker, there's probably 5 families that would be more than willing to pay it.

That’s PURE speculation.
Dan

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

Respectfully, Disney doesn't care if it would cost your family that. They want your money, and there are people who would pay that. If they go with a MaxPass model, it also would likely be entirely optional. Just like Universal's Express Pass. Perhaps it would be included for deluxe resort guests and available for purchase for everyone else. At which point, you'd have to decide whether you stay less nights and add MaxPass, stay at a deluxe resort if its included, or just not purchase it.

I think that realistically, Disney *has* to care what it costs families. Families are their target audience, and the ultra rich are not particularly interested in Disney vacations - they are not the repeat customers who come back year after year. Whatever Disney is doing, it has to be affordable for some percentage of the middle/upper-middle class family demographic in order to work.

 

[wgeo]

I think that realistically, Disney *has* to care what it costs families. Families are their target audience, and the ultra rich are not particularly interested in Disney vacations - they are not the repeat customers who come back year after year. Whatever Disney is doing, it has to be affordable for some percentage of the middle/upper-middle class family demographic in order to work.

Sure, but they will absolutely push it as far as they can to try to make as much money as they can. They've been doing this forever, and every single time there is an uproar on Disney fan sites saying Disney can't do that, its just a money grab, everyone will quit going - (and my personal favorite - "we are only going to do one more trip and then never go back") And yet Disney stays full. The last one I remember was when they decided to charge for parking, everyone was upset, I was upset but it sure didn't seem to slow down hotel bookings.

I know covid has thrown a wrench into everything, but for the most part I think Disney is still in the "keep raising prices or charging for things that used to be included" phase and hasn't hit that point where it is negatively affecting their bottom line.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

Sure, but they will absolutely push it as far as they can to try to make as much money as they can.

I absolutely agree with you - they will push it as far as they can. But there has to be a breaking point somewhere. We obviously haven't seen it yet, but I don't think it's limitless. At this point I just wonder where that limit lies.

 

[nkereina]

That’s PURE speculation.
Dan

I mean, isn't this whole thread? Its also my opinion.

I think that realistically, Disney *has* to care what it costs families. Families are their target audience, and the ultra rich are not particularly interested in Disney vacations - they are not the repeat customers who come back year after year. Whatever Disney is doing, it has to be affordable for some percentage of the middle/upper-middle class family demographic in order to work.

You don't have to be ultra rich to purchase MaxPass. People purchase it at Disneyland every day. Disney has been nickel and diming people for years... look the morning magic, after hours events, dessert parties for after hours events. Totally optional things that people are ready and willing to pay for. Plus the removal of free magic bands, Magical Express and luggage service for onsite guests while hotel rates remain the same, if not higher. People are coming in record numbers now.

If MaxPass in Florida ever comes to fruition, you likely could still visit WDW for relatively the same cost and not purchase a single day of MaxPass. Its how its done at DL and at Universal. Its an optional benefit that you pay for, but its not required to still enjoy the parks. Its naive to think Disney won't monetize FP+ in some way, eventually, when they're currently trying to recoup losses from the last year and they know people will pay for it.

 

[finedice]

If MaxPass in Florida ever comes to fruition, you likely could still visit WDW for relatively the same cost and not purchase a single day of MaxPass. Its how its done at DL and at Universal. Its an optional benefit that you pay for, but its not required to still enjoy the parks.

Again - Lost here is the fact that families visit WDW for much longer trips than they do DL or any other Disney park for that matter. Think family and 6-10 day trips being the norm - multiply by the number of people in the group and you see the difference is pretty large.

 

[ErikdaRed]

Maxpass economics are very different in DL than they would be with WDW. In DL you get access to all attractions on any given day, lots of opportunity to bounce from one FP line to the next. Even at MK in WDW I think you would be hard pressed to duplicate that feat, let alone any of the other parks.

 

[maltdizzy]

Again - Lost here is the fact that families visit WDW for much longer trips than they do DL or any other Disney park for that matter. Think family and 6-10 day trips being the norm - multiply by the number of people in the group and you see the difference is pretty large.

Keep in mind, at DL, paying Maxpass isn't required, it just makes it a lot easier. Guests can still use the FP kiosks for free, but you have to pay for Maxpass to book FP by phone. I loved Maxpass at DL (I hate FP+ and booking weeks ahead), but I don't think it would be cheap or easy to roll out at WDW.

 

[disneymom0104]

Maxpass economics are very different in DL than they would be with WDW. In DL you get access to all attractions on any given day, lots of opportunity to bounce from one FP line to the next. Even at MK in WDW I think you would be hard pressed to duplicate that feat, let alone any of the other parks.

I agree with this. We have used Maxpass at DL on multiple trips and I can't imagine NOT using it, if it was offered. It started at $10/person per day (a bargain), last time we went in late 2018 I believe it was $15/person per day if ordered through the ticket purchase and $20/day if someone chose to purchase day of (I could be off on numbers- but we paid whatever the cost was in 2018) Anyway- we are also a family of 6. We go to Disneyland for 5 days, which is the max ticket you can buy. So for our family, Maxpass was an additional $90 per day, or $120 per day $20 per person. So between $450-$600 extra. That is a fairly large amount extra but worth every penny for us. But we have access to every single ride that would be available for FP every day.

At WDW we do 10 day tickets, so even at $20 per person per day (and that is probably low) that would be an extra $1200 minimum! That's a lot just for fast passes, and while at DL you have the option to choose day by day and could opt to only use it some days, I know we would want to use it every day because it is a huge convenience.

All that to be said- DL is a shorter vacation for most people. Either local day guests or hotel guests that spend 2-4 days there, it is a much more manageable cost. I wonder if they would tie it in as an additional cost on the park hoppers, like they do the water parks. All speculation I know. It will be interesting to see what they come up with!

 

[Disneyliscious]

People are coming in record numbers now.

Its an optional benefit that you pay for, but its not required to still enjoy the parks.

There is much irony in the 2 statements above.

Its naive to think Disney won't monetize FP+ in some way, eventually,

People said that about Southwest's "NO Bag Fees" too.

 

[MomOTwins]

Oh, but they would if we stopped going due to the increased cost. Everyone has their breaking point. I suspect we wouldn’t be the only ones.

It’s always that balancing game.

Dan

I absolutely agree with you - they will push it as far as they can. But there has to be a breaking point somewhere. We obviously haven't seen it yet, but I don't think it's limitless. At this point I just wonder where that limit lies.

All that to be said- DL is a shorter vacation for most people. Either local day guests or hotel guests that spend 2-4 days there, it is a much more manageable cost. I wonder if they would tie it in as an additional cost on the park hoppers, like they do the water parks. All speculation I know. It will be interesting to see what they come up with!

But it's all about tradeoffs, isn't it? We already all play that game with our budget to varying degrees. Could I afford to go to Disney for two weeks, staying GF club level theme park view or a bungalow at the Poly, with park hopper "and more" tickets, eating at character meals 3 times daily, buying Boo Bash or similar tickets, fireworks dessert parties and early morning magic, lightsabers at Savi's, or heck, why not add VIP tours every day to the mix? I'd be broke, but happy. But I would never do ALL those things, and yet they Disney continues to sell all those things.

If fastpass becomes significantly expensive, it will just add to the mix of upcharges that some people are rich enough not to care about, other people do some tinkering to make room in their budget for, and some people skip altogether. We think of it as essential because it used to be free, and FP sure is a very nice perk indeed, but it is not REQUIRED. This past year has shown we'll show up and wait in lines and skip rides where the wait is just too long, just like we used to skip rides we couldn't get a fastpass for because we had a shorter trip.

Heck, to @disneymom0104's point, maybe people will just take shorter vacations by a night or two, just like Disneyland guests take shorter vacations. With rooms at $300+ a night for moderates, you'd get back the cost of FP pretty easily. And from Disney's perspective, they'd rather sell out a year with people taking 4 day vacations than have fewer people visit but stay 10 days, because every day after day 4 is a SIGNIFICANT reduction in the per day ticket cost.

 

[moesy4]

One reason I can see Disney not requiring payment for it is what benefit still exists for hotels if you take that away? People pay at least double for Disney hotels and most perks have been stripped or will be by year’s end besides a sub par bus system. Taking away FP+ for those paying 300 plus for a mildly themed motel room seems like a stretch even for them.

 

[123SA]

Right now, without FP, I haven't seen wait times that are consistently throughout the day too long. You can jump on FOP at the beginning and end of the day with reasonable waits...and FOP is worth a 60 minute to me. Slinky seems to be the only one that is consistently too long.

Where I run into problems is when the secondary ride lines are too long. I'm willing to wait 60 minutes for FOP, but I'm unhappy if I have to wait 40 minutes for Haunted Mansion -- I love it, but that's too long. And this is what FP+ does. It makes all of the standby lines over 40 minutes.

Now, pre-COVID, I could deal with that by incessantly attempting to get more FP beyond the 3. And, when I had to wait for my fast pass time to open, I did things like: the parade, the Castle Show, a character meet, a snack, a bit of shopping, my kids didn't really kow we were actually waiting for the next ride time to open...but those things are either not available, or they take much longer that they used to. So, if they bring back FP+...what are we supposed to do in between FP times? So, this leads me to think that the standby lines will be even worse than pre-COVID because we don't have as many options. Pre-Covid the standby line for Jungle Cruise was at least 40 minutes at 3:00, parade time...won't it now be more like 60-80 minutes?

So that's it. My main concern is if they bring back FP+ before EVERYTHING is available to spread out the people who don't have a FP...it's just going to be awful. You'll ride your 3 rides, wait in one terribly long line until you realize how yucky that is...try to get more FP and who knows what the availability of more FP will be...and then everyone will be miserable and want to leave. And I don't go to Disney World to hang out in a hotel room, to go shopping or lounge at the pool. We vacation to get AWAY from the pool. (swimmers...if you have them, you know what I mean)


My kids went to Six Flags in May on a school trip. They were there for 6 hours. They each rode 3 rides in six hours. They loved the rides...some sort of crazy roller coasters. But they both said, it's not worth it. 6 hours for 3 rides, even ones they loved, was frustrating and in the end, not worth doing again. I don't want this Disney trip to turn into that.




hmmm...sorry...I seemed to have strayed from the paying for FP theme

 

[cakebaker]

implementation likely failed with the second option on the latest live platform test

You'll ride your 3 rides, wait in one terribly long line until you realize how yucky that is...try to get more FP and who knows what the availability of more FP will be

And that's exactly why you don't schedule FP's for early in the morning- ride standby while the lines are reasonable on secondary rides, use FP for the headliners later when everything is a wait. You just don't need a FP for every single ride in a park, especially the MK.

 

[DisneyFive]

This past year has shown we'll show up and wait in lines and skip rides where the wait is just too long, just like we used to skip rides we couldn't get a fastpass for because we had a shorter trip.

Right now, without FP, I haven't seen wait times that are consistently throughout the day too long.

Ah, but don't forget that the parks have been at limited capacity for the past year and more. You can't use the past year's standby wait times and think it's any indication of future wait times once park reservations and capacity limits are removed. Complaints of wait times have been increasing more and more last few weeks as capacities are increasing.

Also, the way things are now, we are forced back into getting up early on our vacation to ride those prized attractions with low waits. BTW this was my main gripe with paper legacy FP. You still had to be at rope drop just to get a paper fast pass for a later time in the day before they all ran out. Sometimes fast passes for the entire day would run out before 10 AM in the morning. With FP+ we could have them booked and actually get rest when needed.

Dan

 

[123SA]

And that's exactly why you don't schedule FP's for early in the morning- ride standby while the lines are reasonable on secondary rides, use FP for the headliners later when everything is a wait. You just don't need a FP for every single ride in a park, especially the MK.

I guess I don't agree. 2004-2010. Yes. Rope drop was awesome. From 2012 - 2016 it wasn't as good, but still so worth it to get up and go. You could get so much done, and then use your FP in the afternoon, have lunch parade etc and look at using extra FP after 3:00. But in 2017, 2018, 2019? Just no. Every year, rope drop was less effective that the previous year. I do think that I am better with FP that the average tourist. As DIsney continued to advertise FP+, it became better utilized, and standby lines grew. Rope drop at MK was not the wait free ride time that it used to be. By 10:30, lines were long. In 2019, we used our FP starting at 10am on the headliners, and then looked for FP on the secondary rides we didn't get to between 9-11am.

Currently, the wait times at MK seem longer at 10:30am than 4pm, so I'm no longer sure what the best time to get FP is.

In addition -- there is still the issue that with so many things closed, people will go to the standby lines because there isn't anything else to do. This will cause longer standby lines than FP+ normally causes.

 

[123SA]

Ah, but don't forget that the parks have been at limited capacity for the past year and more. You can't use the past year's standby wait times and think it's any indication of future wait times once park reservations and capacity limits are removed. Complaints of wait times have been increasing more and more last few weeks as capacities are increasing.

Dan

This is a really good point. It's hard to plan because we don't have a consistent past to look at, and we don't know what changes to expect.

I should stop stressing about FP or lack of FP. I have had 15 two week trips in the last 20 years and only one was bad. Mostly my fault -I had bad shoes (hard lesson learned) and I was miserable. It also rained incessantly and we had to leave early because of a hurricane. I should move on to making a packing list. That's so much more fun!


I appreciate everyone's input. It's good to read different opinions

 

[MEC004]

Our first trip was during COVID and we had a DAS for my son. Planning on getting a DAS next year. Do I need to worry about FP+? I can be honest that the whole thread has me worried. Lol!