Heads up cruisers- are you flying DELTA??

[Jeanne434]

Heads up cruisers-DELTA IS BAD NEWS
Anyone planning on cruising in the future may want to pay attention to this post. My DD 17 almost missed her cruise because Delta insists on over booking every flight. She was travelling alone on sat May 3 to Orlando to meet us in the airport for her cruise. We had flown in the night before but she was delayed to allow her to attend her senior prom. I got a call at abut 7:30 am stating that she had been "bumped" involuntarily! Yikes! Delta was bussing her to Boston (from Providence Rhode Island) so that she could catch a flight that morning to Fla for the cruise. We were the last people on the boat, missed muster and almost missed the whole cruise.
Now why would Delta bump a minor travelling alone?? And it gets worse...
Her return flight on Saturday night May 10 also saw her bumped again! We had flown in ealier and were waiting for her at the Prov airport when I got paged. It was now 10 PM. DD was on the phone, crying hysterically that she had once again been bumped. GRRRRR This time there was no flight that night so delta had issued her a voucher for the Orlando Marriot Hotel. Isn't it illegal for a minor to be alone in a hotel room?? Then to add insult to injury they had rebooked her for the following day with a two and a half hour lay over in ATLANTA!! Now how many parents want their child wandering the Atlanta airport ALONE for a couple of hours?? To make matters worse, DD stated that the people were being short with her for "melting down", tealling her to pull herself together and "get over it" !! Some man named Terry was especially rude and nasty to her. Actually yelled at her! This was when DD got her back up and stood up them- told them to stop acting like jerks! Well DD threw a massive fit until a higher up came to her rescue. She says that everyone that had been yelling at her was suddenly much nicer and they all quickly disappeared when "Laurie" came to help her. Of course she was unable to get any last names since Delta agents apparently only have first names on their name tags- thats not right! And Laurie said she didn't know Terry's last name. Hmmmmmm
What ever was Delta thinking?? I mean bumping a minor is bad enough but then to put them in a hotel alone and then to expect them to wander Atlanta's huge airport for a few hours is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE to me! Aren't they concerned about the liabilities of such actions?? What if something had happened to her? Or if she was a different child and made poor decisions when left alone like this? I mean a teen could get in a whole boat load of trouble here. She could have disappeared or been snatched or missed the connection- yikes- the possibilities give me shudders.
Well in an attempt to get to the bottom of this I went to the FAA site last night. Turns out Delta had the industries worse record for "involuntarily unboarding" passengers. This was an informative if cumbersome site that gives you all kinds of stats on the airlines such as lost bags, delays, complaints etc. You have to type in the whole name to get there- FAA brings you to a lawyers site! Federal Aviation Administration is the place.
In closing- I will NEVER EVER choose to fly Delta. I will tell everyone I know and have them tell everyone they know about their actions. They have not heard the last of this from me. And If I ever find this Terry guy there will be "words" exchanged. I think he ought to lose his job for snapping on an obviously distraught teen. Talk about poor customer service. I will be filing a formal complaint with the FAA and Delta as well.
SO IF YOU HAVE FLIGHT PLANS WITH DELTA BEFORE YOUR CRUISE YOU BETTER STAY ON TOP OF IT! Plan on flying in at least the night before. Delta also has an awful record for changing their flight schedules- I have heard numerous stories in the last two days of people who's flights have changed three times or more in just one month. We all work hard to pay and plan out magical, wonderful cruise vacations. What a shame if Delta screws anyone else over. AND WHATEVER YOU DO- DO NOT FLY YOUR CHILDREN ALONE ON DELTA- it could lead to a headache at least and a tragedy at worse.
I am sorry if this sounds like ranting- maybe it is- but I find this deeply disturbing. Fortunately my DD got home safely if frazzled. it could have easily turned out differently.


__________________

 

[AnnMorin]

I would contact someone in upper management at delta about this if I were you. I assume your daughter got free ticket vouchers for each time she was bumped? We used to fly delta on purpose because we knew we would be bumped and get vouchers for like 500.00 off our next flight. Of course we knew this going it and were prepared to get bumped. We tried southwest last year and I liked them so much I think I will stick with them. The cattle call boarding is not so great but the staff is so pleasant (and FUNNY) it makes it well worth it.
I can't imagine having my child stay in a hotel room by himself, how did she get to the marriot? She must have been quite frightened. Why didn't she fly home with you all together?
At any rate I would most definately contact delta management!

 

[ReadyForDisney2003]

Even these days with bumping happening all the time, it is unusual for involuntary bumping to happen. They always ask for volunteers to get off the plane. I am a million miler on Delta and many times I have been on the plane with them looking for someone to get off because there is someone in the boarding area with a ticket to get on. The compensation gets higher and higher until someone gets off and then you see the person get on the plane. What was her compensation for involuntary bumping?

As a side note, my first cruise was Thanksgiving after 9/11. That was when the jerk closed the Atlanta airport for breaching security. Delta kept saying our flight was going to get out. It didn't , it didn't, and it didn't again. After yelling at the Disney people that we were going to miss the ship, we finally got Delta to get us out. Disney had to hold the ship 40 minutes for us. Thank goodness there were 25 Disney passengers on that flight.

For anyone having problems with a Delta flight, ask for a 'Red Coat'. Just say "Let me talk with a red coat." This person has the authority to fix any problem.

 

[mcnuss]

The last time I flew them was in 1996, my DD was about 2 1/2, and we were going to FL to see my parents, DH was not with us. As my baby was walking thru the metal detector, and I was struggling to get all our junk on the Xray belt, a Delta employee carrying her dinner came streaking by me, flashing her ID badge at the security guy, and then pushed by my DD, knocking her to the ground. All the Security people rushed to our aide, and pointed me to a Delta customer service rep standing right there, who saw the whole event. I went up to him and asked how to make a complaint against the employee. His response: "let me tell you what I saw. I saw your child fall down all by herself, and the Delta employee stop to help her." I was aghast. And all the while, he made sure I could not see his ID. The Security people heard this <word I cannot write on a family board> and could not believe it. Their response: "Typical Delta attitude." Later that same trip, DD and I were assigned to the absolutely last row on the plane (old plane) next to the lavs. It smelled awful back there, and DD, being 2 1/2 after all, yells "MOMMY IT SMELLS PEE PEE IN HERE". Instead of laughing it off, the FA came up to me and told me to keep DD quiet! My response to her was that I never stifle my child's desire to speak the truth.

Long story, but the end result is that I now fly US Airways, not the best airline, but it sure beats Delta. And Delta really lost out, bc I fly every week to NYC now and could take their Shuttle, but will never on principle.

Finally, Jeanne434, was Delta aware that your DD was only 17 - was this made clear at the time of the reservation?

 

[imgoingtodisney]

uhoh - guess who's flying Delta? imgoingtodisney!
ahhhhhhhhhhhh watch out Delta Im coming
I just found out a few wks ago that our direct flights for Nov have been changed already to connecting flights in Atlanta. Thank goodness we are flying the day before the cruise.

 

[Michelle]

Jeanne, I'm sorry for your experience.

I fly Delta frequently almost exclusively and have NEVER had a problem. I've been very satisfied overall.

 

[jfeasel]

First of all, let me say that I'm a Delta Frequent Flyer but I've been getting anoyed with them since Oct. 2001. I understand that the industry took a hit on 9/11 but that doesn't mean customer service should be cutback.

They have eliminated their Delta Express direct flight from our airport to Orlando. I took this flight every time we've been to Disney and it was always full of not only Disney people but people flying to Orlando and then going on to other parts of Florida. We took their last Express flight in October 2001.

Now our choices are a direct flight through a partner of Delta that uses 50 seat planes (one lavatory, no extras) for a 2 hour flight or to make connections in Cincinnati or Atlanta. Last summer a group of us cruised out of Miami and flew Delta and had to connect in Atlanta. Both of our flights were delayed going down causing us much anxiety on if we would even make it to the port and then coming back, we connected in Cincinnati, our connecting flight was canceled so they put us in a van and drove us back to our home airport with a driver who was falling asleep at the wheel. It was a totally scary drive.

Now, we're leaving June 14 for our 7 day cruise and are flying through Delta. 10 of us are going and in order to avoid any delays in Cincy or Atlanta, we opted for the 50 seater on a Delta partner that I have never heard of. I'll be taking my rosary for sure. We can't fly out the night before because of scheduling conflicts (work, last day of school, expense of a hotel room, etc.) We had our flight booked for a 6:50 am departure getting us to Orlando by 9 am. That flight was just recently changed to a 9:50 am depature getting us to Orlando at a much later noon. I know that's not too late, but if we get delayed taking off or the flight is overbooked as mentioned in an above post, we're up a creek. They also changed our flight back which was totally too early. Luckily, I booked through a travel agent and he's been great to help us and was able to get us on a later flight back home but it has really been a hassle.

Thanks to flight cutback out of our home airport, we weren't left with much of a choice other than Delta. America West's flight got us to Orlando too late. I would have gone for Southwest, but we're traveling with 10 people ages 6-60 and my father has a medical condition and refuses to fly without an assigned seat (I haven't told him we're on a 50 seater yet).

I've got enough frequent flyer miles for 3 free flights but after Delta switched all of the flights around for this trip, I'm not looking forward to using them.

If anyone is flying Delta this summer, be sure to double and triple check their flight schedule because my travel agent told me they have been rearranging their schedule and canceling flights like crazy. That's what I hate about flying, you have no control over things like canceled flights or overbookings and the airlines just act like it's a normal thing. Well, in my business, it's not normal for me to not follow through on the services I'm supposed to provide and I expect the same thing from my airlines. Unfortunately, we don't seem to think alike.

 

[Jeanne434]

DD 17 just brought up a very good point..
I really do understand why they bump passengers but in what other business are you allowed to sell something that you do not even have??
How can an airline sell tickets for 250 seats if thier are only really 200 seats on the plane?
In any other business this would be considered unethical if not a down right scam.
I do know that sometimes people book flights and then just don't show up. Well they ought to pay the penalty if you ask me- not the unsuspecting bumped passenger who did show up for thier flight.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Flew DELTA once... Had a bad experience... was in effect 'involuntarily bumped' Called everywhere and did everything possible to get out earlier. Found I could take a DELTA flight from an airport an hour away which would have been great - NOT!!!! Not according to Delta anyhow.... Would not let me do that. Once on DELTA was definatley enough!

I agree with the OP and others who have been very dissatisfied with DELTA!!! I am not surprized.

 

[BunnyV]

I am 37 years old and I wouldn't have felt comfortable in a hotel alone! There are just too many strange people out there. You just never know I have a hard time trusting anyone even the hotel employees, you just don't know who is watching.
My mother would have had a fit too and I bet my brother (10 years older) would have had someone by the ... or should I say neck!

Thank goodness the good Lord was taking care of your daughter

I really can't believe they want that kind of liability. I would definately write a letter to several people and try to go as high up as possible.
If the air was through Disney, I would even contact someone there to see if they will help.
Good luck,
Bunny

 

[cjsmith]

Like I said on another post, I fly Delta frequently and have never had a problem. I fly stand by a lot of the time and usually manage to get on a flight. Not all flights are greatly oversold. They base how many tickets they will oversell the flight on statistics. The flights to Florida are routinely oversold because they are constantly booked and then fly half empty. They do not oversell by 50 seats though, I believe the most is about 35.
Delta, just like just about every other airline is going through hard times. We are the ones, as well as the employess who have to pay the price. It's too bad that you daughter got bumped on both flights, especially considering her age. Did she not arrive at the airport a couple of hours prior to her flight? It seems strange if she did this, that she was bumped on both flights. Did she tell the Delta employees that she was only 17 on the second flight? She technically is not a minor to the airlines. They, just like Disney, deem someone to no longer be a minor when you reach the age of 13. All airlines do this. I sent my kids on JetBlue by themselves to see my parents and they couldn't be deemed "unaccompanied minors" because my oldest was 13! I have been bumped by almost every major airline, especially on American Airlines. Hopefully this is not something that will happen to your child ever again.
Carolyn

 

[Mjasp]

I just have to reply to this post. Jeanne434, I agree with the other poster who said, don't stop and take it to the top, and don't stop till you reach the top. That is totally unacceptable!!! Although with Delta it doesn't surprise me. To have a 17 yr old stay at a hotel alone is just NOT acceptable.

Mcnuss...How horrible can some people be, to that security Delta employee who saw nothing but a helpful employee, What goes around comes around and I hope it comes to back to bite him one day.

Jfeasel...If you fly Southwest with a person with medical problems they board first with the small children. Of course it depends on the condition, I would give Southwest a call and check it out. We are VERY happy with Southwest, very pleasant flight attendants and staff couldn't be more helpful and friendly.

Joanna

 

[Jeanne434]

I do realize that this is an industry wide issue- over booking I mean. I did go to the Federal Aviation Administration site inline- they have the stats on virtually every problem one could encounter when flying. Delta had, by far, the most consistently poor record when it came to "unboarding" passengers. In fact when I compared the US airlines with the foreign airlines we fared pretty poorly. I wonder why? Do foreign airlines not overbook thier flights? just curious.
I do have a few questions about this practice. Years ago I think that people not showing up for scheduled flights was a bigger problem. Back then you got your money back. Do that many people simply sacrifice a few hundred dollars by not showing up as refunds are rarely given anymore for your missing a flight.
Also, with security measures at airports what they are today I think most people are at the airport well ahead of their scheduled departure. I know we all were. They tell you to be there at least 2 hours ahead and I think most americans do this these days.
Upon being bumped from orlando coming home DD did indeed inform them- quite vocally that she was only 17. They simply blew her off till the plane had left. To top it off they were rude and unsympathetic. Thats personal between Delta and I. What I am ranting about in these posts is the general policy of "unboarding" teens travelling alone. If delta sees a passenger as an adult after the age of 14- does that mean they could bump a 15 year old overnight? YIKES!
If there isn't a law regulating this there oughta be. And Delta should be doing a better job of covering thier own back sides.

 

[dlelol]

Jeanne434,

Thanks for the heads up. We will be flying to Orlando in August. We almost booked our flight thru Delta...thank goodness we didn't. After reading this, I don't think we will now.

 

[disneydeb]

i cringe just hearing your story, i'm sure you didnt sleep much that nite knowing your daughter was all alone, if it had been me with my big mouth you bet your bootie delta would have been flying me back down to orlando that nite to stay with my daughter!!!!!!!!!!! i'm leaving in a couple of weeks on delta for my cruise now i'm glad i decided to go the night before. i agree dont stop til you take it to the top

 

[alexturner74]

Yes, a lot of people really don't show up for their flights. It's standard practice for all airlines to allow overbooking of their flights. It's dependant on the flight, time, day, historical statistics and so forth. Most of the time it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I can't argue about Delta's record of denied boardings, it does suck and should be much better. However, just as a comparison, Southwest is the one airline just as bad. For the first quarter 2003, both Delta and Southwest had approximately 2200 denied boardings each. For 2002, Delta had 9200 while Southwest had 7900. For 2001, Delta had 6800 while Southwest had 11000.

Some of you are bashing Delta like it's the only airline in the world to overbook and not supervise teenage Minors. Every airline does the same exact thing. Specific to Delta, you will get unaccompanied minor service if you are under 15. If you are 15-17, then you are on your own. You, as a parent have allowed that minor (airlines actually consider them to be adults) to fly on the airline and agree to the contract. If you want Delta to baby-sit your teenager, then you must request it, and of course pay for it. Otherwise, if they are 15-17, they are on their own. I would imagine that there is little, if any liability on Delta's part.

The under 15 comes from the FAA, which allows any person 15 or over to sit at an exit seat, and therefore perform the responsibilities that come along with that seat in an emergency. If the FAA considers someone that is 15 to be "grown up" enough to be capable of performing the necessary duties during an emergency, then the airlines are not going to take responsibility for them. As such, you have airlines considering 15-17 year olds as adults. If you want this changed, talk to the FAA.

If Delta personnel really did treat your DD as she said, then yes that is wrong and there is no excuse for it. You should address that with Delta, and leave your emotions out of it. But it does not sound like Delta violated any standard airline or government policies or procedures by bumping your daughter. Don’t quote me on that though, just my opinion based on what I know.

BTW, all of Delta’s name tags should either have their full first and last name, first initial and last name, or first name and last initial. If not, they still have their company ID’s that have full first and last names.

 

[Jeanne434]

Originally posted by alexturner74


"Some of you are bashing Delta like it's the only airline in the world to overbook and not supervise teenage Minors. Every airline does the same exact thing. "

** Of course other airlines overbook. However I can only speak to my personal experience with Delta. Thats why I leave the others out of the conversation. **

"Specific to Delta, you will get unaccompanied minor service if you are under 15. If you are 15-17, then you are on your own. You, as a parent have allowed that minor (airlines actually consider them to be adults) to fly on the airline and agree to the contract. If you want Delta to baby-sit your teenager, then you must request it, and of course pay for it. Otherwise, if they are 15-17, they are on their own. I would imagine that there is little, if any liability on Delta's part."

** I do not expect Delta to babysit my teen. I do however, expect them to exercise common sense. Common sense to me means that they ought to at a minumum, get the teen to the destination on the same day as expected, if not on the same flight. Setting a teen loose in an airport or hotel over night is not common sense by my way of thinking.**



"The under 15 comes from the FAA, which allows any person 15 or over to sit at an exit seat, and therefore perform the responsibilities that come along with that seat in an emergency. If the FAA considers someone that is 15 to be "grown up" enough to be capable of performing the necessary duties during an emergency, then the airlines are not going to take responsibility for them. As such, you have airlines considering 15-17 year olds as adults. If you want this changed, talk to the FAA. "

** I fully intend to speak to the FAA. I have already begun that process. And I am not stopping there. My legislative reps and anyone else that will listen will hear from me in the next few days. I feel obliged to do my part. I would feel terrible if someday I read in the paper that something awful had happened to a bumped teen.These are regulations that need to be changed system wide. As I have said many times- if there isn't a law then there ought to be. I will do what little I can to make our teens safer when traveling. This is bigger then Delta- I realize that. I see something that is broken and needs to be fixed. I have a small personal grudge with Delta but a BIG problem with the regulations or lack thereof that allow this.**

If Delta personnel really did treat your DD as she said, then yes that is wrong and there is no excuse for it. You should address that with Delta, and leave your emotions out of it. But it does not sound like Delta violated any standard airline or government policies or procedures by bumping your daughter. Don’t quote me on that though, just my opinion based on what I know."

** Perhaps not- but I aim to either change these policies or have them enforced if they are present. I think it endangers teens to keep them overnight in cities without an adult there. I believe it is foolhardy and asking for trouble.**

"BTW, all of Delta’s name tags should either have their full first and last name, first initial and last name, or first name and last initial. If not, they still have their company ID’s that have full first and last names. [/B]

**DD states that Terry's large name tag did not have last name on it. She says that the lanyard holding a larger, official looking badge was not able to be read by her at the time. Perhaps in the heat of the moment or being upset. But she did try to get his last name from other airline representatives and noone knew it. hmmmmm This is a smaller and personal issue between delta and I. I have already spoken to Corporate Offices about this Terry character and they have "begun an investigation" to try to find out who this was that handled his job so unprofessionally. He needs to be scolded and reminded about courtesy and kindness.

I do thank each of you for your input and opinions. Really. I am handling this with the proper people and do not mean to go on and on about it here. I am just responding to peoples input.
Hope you all have a great day!**

 

[JCarangal]

Jeanne434 --
I think it was terrible that Delta treated your DD this way! It sounds like all of her dealings with them were at the least unpleasant. And I have read this whole thread and I still think it is terrible, terrible policy for an airline to bump a 17 year old girl travelling alone and expect her to stay at a hotel by herself overnight! I understand bumping happens (though I don't agree with that practice either) and if the girl was able to get on another flight an hour or two later that would be bad enough - but to bump her and make her stay overnight is totally unacceptable! I would be calling everyone -- local newspapers, my congressional representatives, the FAA and Delta (who would be so sick of hearing from me they'd know my voice as soon as I called). And for their employees to treat your DD so rudely during this difficult time is unbelievable.

And in closing I will say this ... one of the chief ways businesses get continued support is through recommendations/word-of-mouth experiences by prior customers. There have actually been studies done to prove that money spent on advertising can not overcome negative experiences shared by prior customers. It is often said that a happy customer will tell 0-1 other people where an unhappy customer will tell 10-15 other people (and using the internet just multiplies those numbers!).

After all I have read on these boards, I will *never* book a flight with Delta (or any of its 'arms'). And not only for the bumping of the 17 yo girl to a flight the next day, but even more so for the way she was treated by the employees.

 

[Grumbo]

Delta should use common sense, and the employee was right out in left field. Thats really the top and bottom of it.
The maturity level, of teenagers runs the gamut. I had one of my kids when they were 17 who would have been fine in this situation, while the other would have not coped.
I think the lesson learned is that this is a systemic problem within the airline industry (There was a similar incident that made the press last year where teens younger than this were stranded in Europe with a Canadian carrier while on a school trip and were without their chaperones) and you should travel with your children if you have concerns. I know either my wife or I would have stayed behind for our one daughter, and travelled with her because neither she, nor we would have been comfortable with her travelling alone.
Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[nicurnc]

Sorry not to let this issue die, but I can't get over how many folks are trashing Delta. Several retired military friends work for
Delta, it's about as good as any airline out there. As one of the only two carriers in my town, I fly with them lots and have not personally had any problems with them.

Alexturner24- thanks for being the voice of reason!

Jeanne434- here's my take on all of this. You decide to leave your oldest daughter behind a day so she can attend her prom and the rest of you don't have to miss your cruise. You spent an anxious day on the dock wondering if she would even make it on time or risk sailing without her. Then as luck would have it, your daughter manages to get bumped going home. Coincidence....hmmmm.
Anyway, then you spent another night worried about her whereabouts...any parents nightmare. I can speak from experience...been there, done that.

Now you are crazed that the airline dare treat your child like that! Hello! Airline!... Not mom! Not parents! NO ONE will watch out for your child like you would watch out for your child!
The airline treated your daughter like she was adult because YOU TREATED HER LIKE SHE WAS AN ADULT! You let her fly alone! Did you not stop to consider all the what-ifs before you allowed her to get on that plane?

Our children are our most precious possesions. Entrusted to us for a short amount of time, during which we hopefully teach them how to handle the curves life can throw us. Your daughter was not up to this challenge of adulthood (teary, meltdown,etc). And you had the pants scared off you by what could have happened.

It has to be somebodies fault, but certainly not yours. Let's bash the airline, let's go after the FAA. But let's not think that we may have had some part in this fiasco.

Take it to the top, I'm sure you'll do just that. But take a look at you own actions in this, as well. And be sure you know what your kids reaction will be before you let them go off on such an adventure by themselves.

Loretta