Heads up cruisers- are you flying DELTA??

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Originally posted by nicurnc
Sorry not to let this issue die, but I can't get over how many folks are trashing Delta. Several retired military friends work for
Delta, it's about as good as any airline out there. As one of the only two carriers in my town, I fly with them lots and have not personally had any problems with them."

** Okay- if so many people are "trashing" Delta with thier own stories of ill treatment or inconvenience MAYBE Delta does have a problem. All these people trashing Delta, as you put it , can't be wrong. If they are as good as any other then they are all performing poorly I say. I have said more then a few times here that my issue is not solely with delta- I see this as an industry wide issue that needs to be addressed. What other business can you sell a commodity that you do not have- such as unavailable seats on the airplanes? And in any job I have ever had you either treated the customer with respect or you got treated to a pink slip.Just as you have not had any problems with Delta I have, therefore thiers is the name I mention.**

"Alexturner24- thanks for being the voice of reason!"

** I don't think I am being unreasonable. Not a bit. This is a foolhardy and potentially dangerous practice that should not be allowed. Do you think it is safe for teens to be left over night in a hotel room?? I don't. **

"Jeanne434- here's my take on all of this. You decide to leave your oldest daughter behind a day so she can attend her prom and the rest of you don't have to miss your cruise."

** Here's the rest of the story- we won this cruise- a trip for four including airfare. Our airfare was included in the package. DD's was not. Since we had to purchase her flight seperately anyways we decided to let her stay behind that night for her prom. Thats why the decision was made the way it was.**

"You spent an anxious day on the dock wondering if she would even make it on time or risk sailing without her. Then as luck would have it, your daughter manages to get bumped going home. Coincidence....hmmmm."

** If not coincidence then what?? I am missing your point here.**
Anyway, then you spent another night worried about her whereabouts...any parents nightmare. I can speak from experience...been there, done that.

"Now you are crazed that the airline dare treat your child like that! "

** I am not crazed. I am concerned> i repeat again- this is NOT about my daughter. She made it home safely and all told handled herself quite well in a stressful situation. I am proud of her maturity and the fact that she stood up for herself when push came to shove. The fact that I keep responding to these posts is not due to the fact that I am "crazed" (although I must admit that being called crazed does make me a little irritated!) I am responding to start a dialogue, maybe alert parents of future travelling teens to what could happen. I think this is healthy and I feel rather obliged to clarify my position.**

"Hello! Airline!... Not mom! Not parents! NO ONE will watch out for your child like you would watch out for your child!
The airline treated your daughter like she was adult because YOU TREATED HER LIKE SHE WAS AN ADULT! You let her fly alone! Did you not stop to consider all the what-ifs before you allowed her to get on that plane?"

** Again, I did not expect the airlines to babysit my teen. Perhaps i was naiive but I did expect COMMON SENSE, and common sense tells me LOUD AND CLEAR that leaving a teen overnight in a hotel room overnight is not a good idea! I eould never in a million years imagine ,among the many what ifs I thought of before allowing her embark on this trip, never did I think an airline would act in such risky manner, I would have thought they would be more concerned with protecting themselves even if they were not concerned with my daughter. If you ask me it is just dumb- like a no brainer. Delta ought to be protecting themselves better then this. I am stunned by thier failure to not have regulations in place re: this. In the school I work in we are not even allowed to let a high school student walk home from school early without parental notification or permission. Do you honestly think this is good policy??**

"Our children are our most precious possesions. Entrusted to us for a short amount of time, during which we hopefully teach them how to handle the curves life can throw us. Your daughter was not up to this challenge of adulthood (teary, meltdown,etc). "

**I am well aware of what precious people our children are. More so then I care to go into or then you will ever know. But thanks for the reminder...why do you think I am doing all this?? It is to try to protect these kids from the lack of regulations regarding this matter. And I have attempted to teach my children to handle problems. I think my daughter handled things pretty dang well considering. After a week of late nights and cruising fun I am sure many of us perfectly mature and reasonable adults would have melted down at less. **

"And you had the pants scared off you by what could have happened."

** My pants are not scared off at all. I have been moved to act upon something I see as a serious problem. That's all. **

" It has to be somebodies fault, but certainly not yours. Let's bash the airline, let's go after the FAA. But let's not think that we may have had some part in this fiasco."

** As for responsibilty and personal accountability you are preaching to the choir here. Noone is bigger on this then I. I hold my children and MYSELF accountable for our choices and actions. I am not suing delta for crying out loud, I am trying to get some regulations in place to avoid this sort of thing in the future. Fiasco?? hmmmm I wouldn't call it that. Perhaps responsible citizenship as a result of my awakening to an issue I never would have thought this would be allowed to happen. I just thought the industry was wiser I suppose. **

"Take it to the top, I'm sure you'll do just that. But take a look at you own actions in this, as well. And be sure you know what your kids reaction will be before you let them go off on such an adventure by themselves."

**It will be taken to the top. I feel I would be negligent if I didn't. I have a few questions for you if you wouldn't mind- I am really trying to understand your take on this whole thing-
1. Do you really think it should be allowed to bump teens overnight?
2. Do you not think that the airline acted foolishly in doing this? Don't you think they should be at the least concerned with thier own personal liability if not concerbned with the well being of the bumped teens?
3. If it is illegal for a hotel to rent a room to a minor should it be legal for Delta to book one for them?
4. If someone has to be bumped don't you think it should be an adult. A legally accountable person? Someone who can have a credit card and has some life experience?
5. How detailed should a parent be when looking into the safety of teens travelling alone? As I said, I never would have thought that Delta would have bumped an unaccompianied minor- should I also assure that they won't let her open the doors, or drink alchohol or be molested onboard- I just thought that certain things would be a given- certain safety issues that are just common sense.
6. Would you feel comfortable booking a room for your minor in a hotel alone? Now how would you feel about booking one for someone else teen? Not me- never- especially without parental consent or knowledge.

I do appreciate your input-really- I am called to action as they say and the debate is preparing me I am sure!


Loretta
 
Let me play Delta's... I mean Devil's advocate.

First, I am a Delta Skymiles Silver Medallion flyer. I too have been treated rudely by Delta employees in the past (but no worse than by employees of any other airline). The worst was when the check-in counter clerk yelled at me (Loud enough to cause other passengers to stare) for "using the Medallion check-in line instead of the (long) regular line, since I was no longer Medallion."
I was of course, still Medallion level AND flying Business Elite (Delta's premium First Class product) that day. She had mispelled my last name on her computer and pulled up somebody else's record. I didn't even get as much as an "I'm sorry." I did e-mail Delta and got a "thanks for letting us know and we're sorry" response.

Delta does overbook flights. They will tell you if your flight is overbooked if you ask them. The people who get bumped are those who check in last for an oversold flight. It does not matter what age you are. Compensation for involuntary denied boarding is required and regulated by the government. Note that Delta will also deny boarding to any passenger who appears to be intoxicated and no compensation is required.

Here a 17 year old was denied boarding. I suspect she was bumped because she checked in late. (I know I slept in after my prom!) I doubt Delta singled her out for any other reason. In an oversold situation, I firmly believe that it is only fair the last to check-in should be the first to be bumped regardless of age. A parent or guardian is responsible for getting a child to the airport and on a flight. That the poor girl was bumped again on her return leads me to believe she checked in late again. Why didn't her parents make sure she checked in at Delta in Orlando before they boarded their separate flight home? (especially after the girl's oddysey getting down to Florida!)

Delta will not babysit your child. However for a $75 fee, they will make sure that minors up to the age of 17 are on the correct flight and are met at their destination by the appointed party.

Two and a half hours in the Atlanta airport is not that long a layover. To suggest that this girl was subject to abduction and or molestation seems silly to me considering all of the TSA agents, sky marshals, FBI and state troopers who are at the airport. Alot more secure than the local mall. To suggest that she might miss a connection indicates that she is not mature enough to read signs, tell time, ask for and follow directions, etc. This just does not jive with a "child" whose mother felt comfortable enough to let her go to a prom (late night, exposure to bad influences like drinking, drugs, and boyfriends(!) Perhaps this young woman stayed home alone that night as well? But, as a parent, I would not be comfortable putting my child in this situation if I knew she was prone to hysterics and massive hissy fits. JMO, but I also would not miss my daughter's prom night and taking pictures before she left for her big evening. I also would not take her out of high school for a week in order to take a cruise.

I doubt that it is illegal for a minor to stay a night in a hotel room alone. If there was any problem with a minor staying in a hotel, I imagine that the parents would be held responsible. Delta did what is required when they can't get the passenger to their destination. For this reason, they will not allow a parent to book a child (under 15 I think) on the last flight of the day. Given the situation, the alternative was to have the passenger sleep in the departure lounge overnight.

Of course there are two sides to every story. Perhaps Delta could have handled the situation differently. What other industry has had service deteriorate to the point where the federal government steps in to mandate customer service levels?!
 
Folks you can bash Delta all you want. Next week it will be United (see the post on the man who had to drive 10 hours home because it was going to take United a WEEK to get him on a flight after mechanical difficulty) the week after American (I have an entire horror story from hell about AA) etc....

If you want service, try SW otherwise grin and bear it. I do admit that there are some very strange things about this post.

I will say that it was my understanding as a DL Gold Medallion that if involuntary boarding comes about people on REALLY cheap fares can be bumped. I read the first post, but I don't think you said, did your daughter say they asked for volunteers and did not get any. That is actually pretty rare. Before you start complaining also, what compensation did your DD get.

I will admit that you calling Delta and screaming about her being a minor is NOT going to get you real far. You decided that on one hand she was old enough to fly alone. Then you changed your mind when it did not go perfect.

Now if Terry was rude that shoud be dealt with, but once again this is not something you will only experience at Delta. I once had a AA employee call me a word that you can't type on a board because she tore up my ticket and threw it away and I did not think that was the smartest thing I had ever seen.
 
Here is another odd thing about this post...the 17 yo was mature enough to attend her prom, then travel alone on the plane (presumably after spending the night either alone at her house or with a friend), but not mature enough to spend one night alone in a hotel room? So, why was she traveling alone? Everyone who flys knows flights can be canceled or delayed for any number of reasons. We've all had good and bad experiences with almost all the major carriers overbooking. In my personal experience American has been the worst for overbooking, but it happens.

It could just as easily been a delay because of weather or mechanical problems. And (again IMO), Atlanta is one of the best and easiest airports to change planes, even though it is a HUGE airport.
 

I'd like to start by referencing and responding to a couple of statements already posted.


the 17 yo was mature enough to attend her prom, then travel alone on the plane (presumably after spending the night either alone at her house or with a friend), but not mature enough to spend one night alone in a hotel room?

The girl was either at her home or with a friend. This is not the same as being in a different city in a distant state and alone.


You decided that on one hand she was old enough to fly alone. Then you changed your mind when it did not go perfect.

No, that's not what the original post stated. Who said anyone changed their mind? The parents never imagined - rightly so - an airline would be irresponsible enough to bump a 17-year-old girl. The parents never imagined - rightly so - any airline personnel would verbally abuse a 17-year-old girl. The parents never imagined - sort of rightly so on this one (lol) - that an airline wouldn't make the same mistake twice.



Before you start complaining also, what compensation did your DD get.

This has nothing to do with compensation. Plese reread the original post.


I suspect
I firmly believe

You offer merely opinion. No facts. Original posters fact: Delta chose to bump a 17-year old girl traveling alone. Period.



To suggest that this girl was subject to abduction and or molestation seems silly to me considering all of the TSA agents, sky marshals, FBI and state troopers who are at the airport.

Really? Thugs take over 4 aircraft with box cutters and produce what we now call "9-11." How can that be possible with all the security at airports? So child molesters will disguise themselves as terrorists and act in plain sight so they can be thwarted by security? Give me a break.


To suggest that she might miss a connection indicates that she is not mature enough to read signs, tell time, ask for and follow directions, etc.

Again, no. To suggest that she might miss a connection refers to the parents consternation that the airline chose to reroute a 17-year-old girl with no mature travel savvy.


Too many posters have, in my opinion, made an unnecessary reference to "parental neglect." My view places liability on the party capable of fulfilling the contractual agreement inherent in the "ticket." And knowing that a 17-year-old girl is a solo passenger on one of their flights implies both her parents' determination of airline competency and the airline's responsibility to so act in a competent, rational manner. This was not the case...
 
At the risk of seeming stupid (I really don't know the answer to this!) do these people that just don't show up for their flights pay for those seats?? I know that I have to pay for my seat before a ticket is issued. So, if this is the case, can't the airlines not overbook? I mean...if all the seats are paid for in advance (and they should be) then people could just fly stand-by. If someone doesn't show up, you can buy their seat. I would think that if you have already paid for a seat you would be more likely to show up for the flight. Is this a case of oversimplification??
 
Judging from the number of times I have volunteered and failed, I would have guessed Delta to do involuntary bumps extremely rarely. The website Bumptracker.com also suggests that Delta bumps less than average.

Having ridden subways alone at 9 years old I don't think many 15 to 17 year olds would suffer trouble flying alone, except for rude nearby passengers. Actually more problems with teenagers traveling alone are caused by the teenager himself as opposed to caused by others around him. Unsupervised teenagers are quite apt to misuse facilities in hotel rooms, if I use my own younger life experience to judge by.

But if an honest mistake or insufficent shopping around resulted in unusual added costs such as in for taxis, hotels, or telephone calls, I would expect the airline and not the parents to cover it. The airline should offer advice on these matters when asked.

IMHO Delta owes compensation to the family of the kid that the FA holding his/her dinner knocked over.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm
 
Too many posters have, in my opinion, made an unnecessary reference to "parental neglect." My view places liability on the party capable of fulfilling the contractual agreement inherent in the "ticket." And knowing that a 17-year-old girl is a solo passenger on one of their flights implies both her parents' determination of airline competency and the airline's responsibility to so act in a competent, rational manner. This was not the case...

As I said in a previous post common sense on the part of Delta should be used, however the age of the passenger has been made such an issue by her mother. The fact the airlines overbook is a contentious issue and luckily I've never been a victim but would be mad if it occured. Thus I leave the day before when at all possible to compensate for this possibility.
I wouldn't refer to this as "parental neglect" but if your concerns are because she is alone, in an aiport etc then have someone travel with your daughter. The price for your and her peace of mind is worth it. :)
Bumping is an unfortunate fact of life. Because she is 17 does not negate this and she is an adult in many areas of life and Delta imho is taking a rap for more than what is really someone getting bumped. The ticket agent "Terry" should be disciplined but at 17 years this is a red herring.
Cheers,
Grumbo
 
As a parent of a teenager, I honestly tell you that I would never leave the night of my child's prom to fly down to Florida for the cruise and leave it up to the teenager to fly by themselves to meet us. I wouldn't want to miss out on that special night. Whey didn't the whole family simply delay their flights by one day and all travel together? And why not have the daughter on the same flight coming home? The teenager must have checked in late on both ends to be the one that got bumped from the flight. Getting bumped on both ends has got to be extremely rare if you checked in on time. (Getting bumped isn't as much of a rare thing, but I don't know anyone who has been bumped on both ends of a trip.) There was no reason to have booked the daughter on the last Delta flight of the day going home, it's too much of a risk. You have to get off the cruise very early in the morning and it only take 45 minutes to get to the airport. Isn't it funny that the parents and other family member were able to get on their planes no problems whatsoever, yet this same daughter was bumped once again? Was she not at the airport a couple of hours ahead of time?
When we send on our children on a plane unaccompanied, we know the risks ahead of time. It is a choice that we all make as parents. You know that you child is not an unaccompanied minor at age 17 on that flight and that problems arise quite often in the travel industry. I don't know of any parent who puts their child on a flight alone and doesn't worry until that child has arrived safely at their destination. However, once the decision is made to have your child travel by themselves, the risk starts. It is not illegal to rent a hotel room to a minor either. I traveled with friends at that age on spring trips and was never turned away from hotels. I also stayed in a hotel the night of my prom without any problems.
Delta shares no responsibility is doing anything more than getting you to your destination and compensating you for the problems that arise. From a legal standpoint, they did just that. Your daughter arrived safely at both points and I'm sure was given money or tickets for a future date. When you chose to put her on the plane alone, you decided that the risks of her traveling were worth it and rolled the dice. While I agree that I would be flipping out about my 17 year old daughter spending the night alone in a hotel room, I would realize that I bore some of the responsibility. I would have gotten my child to the airport 3 hours ahead of time to ensure that they were on the flight and safely checked in before I left otherwise I wouldn't have gotten on the plane. What time did she check in on both ends? I notice that this fact is left out of both letter.
Carolyn
 
First a disclosure the person this happened to was my niece.

The point my sister was trying to make is that the airlines should not bump people under 18. There are many instances where perfectly mature adults make poor choices and find themselves in trouble as a result. Why would the airlines (any airline) take a chance and put a young adult in a situation that could potentially cause problems.

At both flights she was brought to the airport by a responsible adult. Her Dad in Providence and my brother in Orlando. I can assure you that both of these adults got her to the airport in plenty of time. She knew the importance of being at the airport early for check in.

Regarding the lay-over in Atlanta. Atlanta's airport is the busiest airport in this country and is difficult to navigate for even the most savvy of travelers. I have traveled numerous times and whenever possible try to avoid this airport - it is just too busy for my comfort.

Our main goal here is to alert people to the potential of young adults being bumped so that parents in the future can be aware of it. I would hate to hear of some person being bumped and having the ending come out poorly and not having spoken out.
 
Originally posted by Buckaroo's Dad
The girl was either at her home or with a friend. This is not the same as being in a different city in a distant state and alone.

The point is, the parents made the decision to NOT fly with their daughter BOTH directions. It's not parental neglect, but it was a parental decision to not delay their own flights, thus she was not under parental supervision. It was a risk that the parents were willing to take, knowing that flights can and often do change, especially after 9-11. I think the parents, the daughter, and the airline all share some of the responsibility.
 
For a fee, parents can request additional services for children (through age 17) travelling alone. This fee is required for children though age 14, but can be added for older kids.

http://www.delta.com/travel/trav_serv/minors/index.jsp

I don't know if this would have helped the bumping situation.

I can also say that adults are often confused and upset by cancelled/delayed flights. I travelled with my MIL, SIL & SIL's kids. Our morning flight & all other flights to the northeast were cancelled because of weather. They couldn't get the 5 of us on the same flight until the next afternoon. No compensation is required in this case. MIL & SIL were pretty clueless until I got there. I didn't do anything special, but I did stay calm & asked what the airline could do to help us out.
 
I don't think we are getting the whole story. To be involuntarily bumped while traveling in both directions does seem odd. Did DD17 know that she needed to check-in a certain number of minutes prior to scheduled flight time? Was she in the gate area when boarding started?

Without knowing more information, it is difficult to know if Delta acted inappropriately in bumping DD17. If she was the last one to check-in and/or if she wasn't at the gate during boarding, she was the logical choice to bump.

Would you be this upset if DD was a few months older and was 18 (no longer a minor in anyones eyes)?

Peggy
 
Yes, her parents chose to let her fly alone for 'convenience sake' but not because they're irresponsible, rather because they actually trusted Delta to (1) provide the service they PAID for and (2) to use common sense if circumstances prevented them from providing the agreed upon service. I'm still a minor according to hotel and rental car standards and quite frequently find myself flying alone all over the country. Last summer I managed 10 flights in five weeks. :) I honestly can hardly belive that the Delta employee were so callous and harsh with someone who was obviously scared and inexperienced. Not to mention just plain stupid in the case of the hotel. But since it's Delta... I've only flown with them when I had no other choice (like when my aunt handed me tickets for Delta... I should have stood my ground and demanded Southwest). Then again the employees were likely just passing on their own frustrations over job insecurity/difficult bosses/whatever. Not that that's EVER excusable, as a parent, employee, boss, or customer, but it happens. So I second (third? fourth? twenty-fifth?) the thought to let Delta know where they went wrong, not just for your own peace of mind, but in vain hope that someone up top will say "Oh! THAT'S why we keep loosing people!" So I'm an optimist. But it could happen! And, in future, if allowing a minor to travel alone, make sure it's an airline you know enough about to trust. That's why I only fly Southwest or Jetblue. They've gone more then out of their way for me a number of times to get me on a good flight and the few times they've had an overfull flight, they offered such nice switching packages that involuntary bumping was never an issue. Traveling alone happens, the best airlines know that and can handle it.
 
I note that both times the child in question was taken to the airport by family. My suggestion in this case would be that the FAMILY member get a pass and walk her to the gate. I am really surprised this was NOT done in Florida after her first experience. THey will let you do this with an older teen even if you have not paid for the escort service.

However, as for airlines not bumping 17 year olds I don't buy it. This girl is a senior in high school right? So... sometime soon she will be 18. At that point do we raise the bump age to 19.
 
Like I said before, I just don't take for granted that anyone other than my husband or myself will be as concerned for my child's safety more than we.

At best this family should just be willing to pass on a cautionary tale to others possibly in the same situation. (As in. "this could happen, make sure your kid can deal with it")

I guess this just makes me crazy because no one seems to want to take responsibility for something they they might have brouhgt on themselves theses days...it's always someone elses fault.

Airlines bump, that's a fact. And yes they obviously can and do bump unaccompanied teens. I just don't see where any parent really thinks the airline is worried about anyones inconvenience when they do this...they just want to get the plane off on time. Worried about your kid's safety? gimme a break! Beleive me they don't care, that's up to you. Does McDonald's care about the crap they sell to teens that will eventually give them a heart attack or stroke. Does the store in the mall that sells provacative clothing to your kid might make her look like a slut and invite unwelcome advances? No, they don't. I know that's simplifing the whole matter, but it still boils down to the same thing. We'd like to think that the village is raising the child, But that's not reality. That's a parent's job, and you should consider every possibility before you let your kid go off on their own, especially air travel.
I also am in the camp that thinks we are not getting the whole story. They always seem to get plenty of volunteers willing to be compensated when I fly. And on another thread posted on this subject, the girl was compensated to the tune of $200 on the trip down, so who knows, maybe she jumped at the chance to be compensated on the way home. Questions that remain unanswered 'cuz none of us were there.

This board should have been used to warn others of a potential problem, not to trash one airline for an industry wide problem that we all know exists and sucks. I would imagine that this is only going to get worse in the face of bankruptcy that many of the major carriers are facing, so we all need to watch out for ourselves.

Loretta
 
Originally posted by CarolA
I note that both times the child in question was taken to the airport by family. My suggestion in this case would be that the FAMILY member get a pass and walk her to the gate. I am really surprised this was NOT done in Florida after her first experience. THey will let you do this with an older teen even if you have not paid for the escort service.

However, as for airlines not bumping 17 year olds I don't buy it. This girl is a senior in high school right? So... sometime soon she will be 18. At that point do we raise the bump age to 19.

Have to agree with Carol on this one. At 17 a young lady or man should be able to take responsibility for themselves for a 24 hour period.

I have a 17 year old son. If he were bumped I wouldn't be happy, but I'd let it be a good life experience for him. This is a girl who will be leaving for college or entering the workforce in a few months--she's going to need to start making decisions and taking care of herself very soon.

Nothing personal to the OP, but it seems like they could have times their cruise a little better. My son won't be attending a prom--he has learning disabilities and goes to a private school which doesn't offer them, but if he did, I'd want to be home with him to take pictures and do the "mom thing".

And I also agree with the other poster who feels we aren't getting the entire story, and it's possible that the bump wasn't quite so involuntary--but the girl took it without truly understanding the consequences of her actions, and then didn't want to fess up on it.

Anne
 
Okay I'm sure I'll get flamed but here goes:

1) Your DD is 17. At 17 I was on my own at college. I had travelled numerous times, to various locations by myself and these things happen, minor or not. At seriously at age 17 I don't think the airlines would have considered her much of a minor. 10 year old yes, 17 year old no.
2) If your dd was very upset chances are she was upsetting the other passengers as well. They needed her to calm down for the sake of the other passengers.
3) Airline ROUTINELY oversell flights, especially to popular destinations. It's not right but they do it. IT's very strange that she was bumped on both flights. I wonder if there was ANOTHER reason.
4)She could have flown to an alternate airport, she may have had to switch planes but it may have gotten her there sooner. She could have flown to Atlanta then Melbourne (which is the closest airport to the port).

Edited to add: Atlanta is not the SCARY airport everyone makes it out to be. I love going through Atlanta. It is very passenger friendly and I LOVE all the shops. All it takes is some common sense to navigate it.
 
Jeanne434 did your daughter receive cash/vouchers/etc for this bump? Did she volunteer for this. As having had no experience with this procedure others seem to feel this may have happened. Can you tell us?
Cheers,
Grumbo
 
Everybody is barking at Delta. All they did was to follow policy that is set by the FAA. You DON'T get bumped if you get to the airport and check in early, simple statement of fact..

For all of you that are demanding that Delta should have found her a seat, what were they to do, draw numbers and pull someone off the plane.

This is the reality of flying in today's world. Live with it or drive.
 
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