Having trouble pulling the trigger!

[CHIdadOF3]

Hi all! Brand new to the DISboards and looking for some opinions on DVC ownership.

As my ID suggests, I have 3 beautiful kids (2, 5, and 8) and we have been to DW 3 times since 2001 ('01 WL, '04 POL French Quarter, '05 BCR). We considered buying at WL during our first visit but decided it wouldn't pay off. After our most recent trip we thought it might be advantageous especially since we travel at least once a year and we can exchange points for destinations other than DIS. We have friends that are owners and we are aware of the current discount offer.

Here's my hesitation: after doing a very basic financial analysis of the cost of ownership (points plus annual maint fees) and not taking into account things like inflation, lost opty costs, etc., I came to the conclusion that a purchase of 210 pts at $83/pt would average out to $200/night (6 nights during adventure season) for a 2 bdrm villa. While I know that this is a good price for that size room at DIS, this formula only works if you stay 6 nights each year. As you look at other times of the year, the cost per night starts to increase significantly.

We have always gotten pretty lucky taking advantage of special offers and discounts on rooms and have stayed at DIS for considerably less (even when we had 2 rooms at FQ!) so I am trying to justify this expense.

Thoughts, comments??? Also, would like to know if anyone has exchanged their point for non-DIS property and what those accomodations might have been like and the ease at which you were able to trade.

Thanks!!!

 

[Plutofan]

From what I have seen you will find it hard to get a discounted price from Disney on a DVC room unless you rent points from someone. Most of the discounts are on Non DVC resorts. In fact I have seen at least one major travel agent who was charging people more than the DVC rate from the www.disney.com website for DVC rooms. You should really not compare DVC rooms to DVC rooms. What makes more sence to comparing renting points at $11 per point versus owning which would include the upfront costs plus annual dues. Your risk on renting is that the rental rates will probably go up more than the dues since the rental amount is higher than the dues amount. Also you are not in control of the reservation and if you need to take advantage of the 11 month window you might find it hard to find the points. Also DVC members get discounts on annual passes and they also get a 25% discount on DVC cash rooms when available.

 

[browniemtb]

Good calculations...but you own 210 points and I believe SSR would reqiure only 189 points for that stay, so you are not calculating the remaining points. Figure it this way....and you are close.
Purchase Price - 210 pts at $83.30 = $17493.00
Add dues paid over a 48 year period - which can fluctuate, based on todays dollar. Then divide by the total alloted poits for 48 years.
Your net cost would be roughly $5.72 a point.
Now for that stay the room would cost you $1080 but you have 21 points remaining, so if you bank them great - you could always transfer them this year for $10 a point - $210 back in your pocket. Room cost now is $870. The other thing $200 a night sounds cheap for a 2 bedroom.......Then start all over the next UY.
Its also not a financial investment......as some one told me here last week, I bought in on Monday, its an investment in your family. But if you play the point game right it shouldn't hurt that bad. I bought 310 pts at BWV.
Hope this helped....
P.S. Don't compare it to a mutual fund investment......
Brownie

 

[CHIdadOF3]

All great points! The way I arrived at my figures was $83.30 x 210pts = $17493. If you divide this by 48 years, that comes to ~ $364/yr. Annual dues were figured at $3.96/pt (all in today's dollars and not taking into account increases) which adds another $831 annualy bringing your total to $1195. If we were to stay at VWL for 6 nights in a 2-brm, that would take 210 (so no banking) bringing cost per night to $199.

Again, I realize that's cheap for a 2 bedroom but we have stayed at other non-DVC properties for much less and we wouldn't necessarily seek out the "more cushy" accomodations as the norm. I'm hoping that the other locations where we can exchange our points make this worth while and puts our minds at rest.

I'm really looking for a reason to buy!!!!

 

[shantay1008]

I totally understand what you're going through. Two years ago, my family was in Florida for a wedding, and we spent a couple of days at WDW. After spending the first night in a couple of All-Star Rooms, my mother-in-law (who was with us) decided it was much too cramped for three adults and three small children. So we found ourselves moving to Beach Club and spending two glorious nights there. We actually were able to relax with a 1-, 3-, and 5-year old. I attended the Vacation Club presentation for Saratoga Springs and was immediately hooked.

What really cemented it for me was the fact that here was a place where a family of six could go and be comfortable for years to come. We were just beginning the process of adopting a little girl from China, and this was like a guarantee for me that we would make it a priority to still have fun and take vacations, since we were paying for it! I really am a practical person, but I swear, thinking about our future vacation (which we leave for in one month) and dreaming of relaxing by the pool and losing ourselves in all the magic, helped me through a really challenging and often stressful two-year adoption process.

This is probably more information than you really wanted, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that something like this is really not necessarily about the money. It's about enjoying life and being part of something really special and unique.

Good luck!

 

[CHIdadOF3]

Shantay - you nailed my DW's arrgument down cold! She is constantly telling me that it's not just about the cost and the finances. Being a finance guy, that's the way I analyze these decisions and, being the sole income provider for my family I try to do what's best for all of us even if it does seem frugal at the time. Her argument is that the ammenities of the villas are worth something as well (doing laundry in your room and not having to bring the piggy bank!). I don't disagree with her since it seems like I'm the one who always does the laundry on these trips...

I'd still love to hear from folks that have exchanged their points for locations other than DVC (Mexico, Carribean, etc.) and their experiences in doing so - did you have difficulty getting the location or week you wanted? Were the accomodations clean and up to par with what you expected? Also, does DVC charge a fee if you exchange your points for a DIS Cruise?

Greatly appreciate all the responses so far! My decision is getting easier!

 

[unixadm]

We did some of the same analysis as well.

There are several reasons why we went ahead and purchased:


1. We love to stay on property. There are numerous perks with staying on site that we like.

First is Extra Magic Hours. My wife and I have gotten in room babysitting one night on each of our trips (from Kids Night Out), and go into Epcot until Midnight. We just love Epcot, and it is great to be there for EMH and gives us an evening without the kids. With EMH, it is great to get into a park an hour early and hit some of the popular rides before the crowds hit as well. EMH is only available if you stay on site.

Second perk to staying on site is the Disney Transportation system. We love to be able to walk into Epcot, or take a boat to MGM when we stay at BWV or BCV. We can even walk into the back entrance of Epcot and take the monorail to get to MK, or the "Monorail 3" resorts for dinner. We can hop on a bus and be at any park, Downtown Disney or Pleasure Island.

Third perk is just the Magic that is Disney that happens on property. Our kids just love staying at Disney resorts and seeing the hidden Mickey's, interacting with the Cast Members, etc. There is just something special about being on property.

2. We feel that the Disney Vacation Club will hold it's value. It's definitely not an investment that will make you a profit, but it is one that will not go down in value, and may save you money depending on the type of trips you take. If we wanted to sell in 10 years, I feel confident that we would get close to our purchase price, if not more. It will definitely save us money over the long term when we look at the type of vacations we like to take and the type of accomodations we like. You can read my thread Doing the Math - The Real Cost/Savings to see some of the math I did to look at the savings.

I feel confident that Disney will be there for the next 48 years, and constantly improving it's properties. I wouldn't feel confident about other Time Shares. DVC is primarily centered around Orlando, which is important to me since my parents live nearby. Another Time Share Company may decide to pull out of Orlando, or concentrate their efforts in other vacation spots.


3. I was tired of searching for the "Best Deal" on the net everytime we wanted to go on vacation. Sure, if I spend weeks scouring the net when planning each vacation, I might get a better deal for that week. But that is wasted time that I have to take into account. With DVC, we just pick when and where and make the call.....done. The other important thing is that we know what we are getting. I've had times in the past where we booked a non-Disney villa, and were very disappointed in the cleanliness of the resort, the upkeep, etc. Without seeing a resort, you can't be sure it is what you want.

4. Although it wasn't available when we purchased, a definite perk is the newly added Dining Plan. We did the dining plan for the first time in September, and LOVED it (see the link in my signature). We like dining at nice restaurants and dining in WDW, so it is the perfect perk for us and will save us lots of money on food.

5. The Annual Pass Discount is another big perk. To save $100-$125 per adult and $75-$100 per child is a HUGE savings that has to be taken into account.

6. Versitility......over the years, I am sure we won't want to go to Disney every year....but with Disney's point system, we can do lots of other vacations. There is no specific week/month/time of year that we have to take vacations, no specific place we must go, and no worrying about having to trade our Time Share with someone to get what we want.


Basically, we wanted to own a piece of the mouse.....it is one of our favorite places to go, and in future years, we can use our points for other vacations. (Next week, we are going on a 7 night Disney Cruise!)

If you have any other questions, let us know....and remember, you have to commit before Feb 1st to get the 15% off (not just contact DVC sales, but put a deposit and start the paperwork rollling)

 

[CHIdadOF3]

Unix - all great points and I am aware of all the additional benefits you receive from staying on DIS property. For that reason alone we have never even considered staying off property.

We also took advantage of the dining plan on this past trip in Dec. IMHO, that alone is worth the price of staying on property! We ate like kings and at places that we would have shyed away from due to cost. Seeing a $117 bill "disappear" and not having to leave tips was awesome! Our itemized breakdown for 6 days was over $900! The savings (and food) were fantastic!

I have done the cost analysis 10 different ways and in every instance the numbers all point to the DVC being a good value for the money IF we were staying at a DVC property. I have ordered all the marketing material and I am curious as to what the costs (in points) are for the non-DIS owned properties. How many points does it take to stay in St. Johns? What about Mexico or say a fall trip to Vermont? How about Hawaii? Being able to expose my children to these other places without having to crunch numbers every time is one of the big benefits and the only missing info in my puzzle.

 

[CherCrazy]

Here's how we justified the cost of our DVC ownership....

The $15k that we paid for our membership is about equal to 3 weeks (1 per year) in the summer at a beach destination here in NJ. That 15K is done, gone, spent on DVC. I could have just wasted it down the shore, but now I OWN something of value.

Now all we're left with is $750 or so in dues every year. Divide the $750 by the number of nights you will be staying. Last year, we got 13 nights of accomodations...various types, but that's ok...my choice. So last year my accomodations cost $57.69 per night.

I met a guy at SSR this fall who was paying $525 per night for 8 nights in a 2br. That's $4200 without the tax!! Do the math for three years at those rates and it's REAL easy to talk yourself into doing DVC!!

 

[aDVCwannabe]

"...you nailed my DW's arrgument down cold! She is constantly telling me that it's not just about the cost and the finances. Being a finance guy, that's the way I analyze these decisions and, being the sole income provider for my family I try to do what's best for all of us even if it does seem frugal at the time. Her argument is that the ammenities of the villas are worth something as well (doing laundry in your room and not having to bring the piggy bank!). I don't disagree with her since it seems like I'm the one who always does the laundry on these trips..."

Chidad -
your post here seems to indicate that you respect your wife's opinions and/or arguments...i bet you respect most of her decisions, too...if she has decided that dvc is a good thing for your family, why not go with that?...might be her second best decision ever made - after all...you were her first decision...so how could she be wrong!

 

[JimC]

Welcome to the DIS

DVC seems to work best for folks who:

Travel at least every other year
Can plan in advance
Want to use points primarily in DVC resorts
Would stay in moderate and deluxe resorts on property anyway
Can afford to pay cash and carry the annual fees

The best deal comes if you can avoid weekend (Fr and Sa nights)

In my book run the numbers against AAA discounted rooms and forget the other perks (remember any perk not listed in the POS is not guranteed to be forever -- consider it a "plus" of membership). If you would like a copy of my spreadsheet send me a PM.

If you want to go elsewhere, rent the points and pay cash or buy another timeshare for Non-Disney. That last option is what we did and we also own Marriotts.

 

[shellbelle1971]

We LOVE our DVC (a mere 310 SSR points for our family of mom, dad + 6 kids) and would never, ever consider staying in "regular" hotel rooms. When you take a herd with you (as we do) having a kitchen, laundry, and enough space to give mom & dad some privacy is absolutely essential. I would encourage you to buy for those reasons alone.

I worry, though, because it looks like you're wanting to do quite a bit of trading/exchanging with your DVC points. If you read through older posts on these boards, and look through the promotional material, you may find that you don't think the DVC is a good trading value.

Our initial instinct was to buy enough points (approximately) to stay in a 2 bedroom at SSR during an off-peak season for a week every other year, PLUS enough points to do a on week interval international exchange in a 2 bedroom in the years we don't go to WDW. (We live in the West, and travel to Orlando can get tricky for our huge group, so an every-other year schedule is good for us.)

After doing some market research (yes, I'm a detail freak), though, we decided to buy DVC points for our Orlando trips (from the developer with the SSR promotion) and resale Hilton Grand Vacation Club points for the non-orlando years (which allow us to go to some of our other favorites--Hawaii & Vegas, or trade through RCI better than DVC does through II.)

Bottom line for us: buy DVC to stay at DVC. Buy something else to stay somewhere else. If you find you want more DVC points later, you can always add on, too. (Not that anyone ever decides they need more... )

 

[shellbelle1971]

You asked about points required to exchange:

7 night II exchange, 2-br red season: 270 points
7 night II exchange, 1-br red season: 160 points
locations available through II: visit http://disney.intervalworld.com (no login needed)

Note that not all Interval International properties are available to you when exchanging DVC points. You can only go to the ones on the website linked above.

Concierge collection hotels range from a low of 14 points per night (Keystone, CO, off-season weeknights) to a high of 184 points per night (also at Keystone, high season, 3 bedroom weekends) and seem to average about 40 to 50 points per night. A list of these hotels is available here: http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/5_Other/concierge.htm

Points required to cruise vary, but for a 7 night eastern caribbean cruise during regular season in a deluxe family stateroom (which sleeps 5) you could expect about:

350 points each for you and your spouse (700 pts total) plus
173 pts per additional adult or child over age 13
143 pts per child age 6-12
141 pts per child age 3-5
26 pts per child age 2 and under
(These were the 2005 points; I don't have the 2006 info here.)

Note that you will also have to pay a fee (I think $75) when booking an II exchange, concierge collection trip or DCL cruise.

So, as I mentioned in my previous email, to me it makes more sense to buy and use DVC when you want to stay in DVC properties, but usually if you want to stay somewhere else, buy somewhere else, and if you want to cruise, pay cash.

JMHO...I know plenty of others out there look at it differently, and I'm the first to admit that different families' situations might make different choices make sense.

Michelle

 

[shantay1008]

We can keep busy at Disney, but I had really hoped to use our points to travel to other places...I notice that ChiDad mentioned St. John, which I had hoped to visit, as well. We have airfare for six to consider, as well, so we were hoping to visit resorts closer to home during our non-Disney years.

I would love to hear some success stories!

 

[browniemtb]

All great points! The way I arrived at my figures was $83.30 x 210pts = $17493. If you divide this by 48 years, that comes to ~ $364/yr. Annual dues were figured at $3.96/pt (all in today's dollars and not taking into account increases) which adds another $831 annualy bringing your total to $1195. If we were to stay at VWL for 6 nights in a 2-brm, that would take 210 (so no banking) bringing cost per night to $199.

That makes sense but wouldn't that make a 3 bedroom grand villa and the BWV cost the same per night?? Some one taught me to break it down by cost per point. Its works.
Also if you plan on staying at the value resorts in Disney the DVC may not be right for you. But if your like us and like to be connected to a park or have a larger room the DVC will save you. This March I'm staying at the BWV for 6 nights....booking through Disney would have run me close to $5200 just for the 2 bedroom. Using the point method my room figures out to be roughly $1700 for the 6 nights. Still pricey compare to the All Stars but you are walking distance to both MGM and Epcot....and saving around $3500.
I'm sure others can share. As I said before buying in make no fiscal sense but makes a ton of family memories.
You'll learn a lot at this forum there are many good people that have helped me through my decsion.
Tha last 4 years We've been to Disney 3 times.....Stayed and Coranado Springs, Off sight at the Hyatt, and the Fort Wilderness Cabins in 05. Add up what I paid there and I could have bought 150 points or so.
Brownie

 

[unixadm]

We're pretty new, so I haven't done much outside of the DVC resorts.....but we are about to....we leave for the Disney Eastern Caribbean 7 night cruise in 1 week.

St. Martaan, St Thomas/St. John, Castaway Cay are the stops.

This trip total points: 388. We have 320 points,so it is a little over a year allotment for us...the free 100 single use points for adding on in the summer is what helped us with this one, otherwise, we would have to borrow or bank to go on this trip.

If we assume $5 per point is my end cost with maintenance, than this trip cost me $1940 (which, incidently, is what the insurance I bought would reimburse me should we need to cancel)

I had priced this trip out through Disney and through other travel companies, and it was approx $4000 for the trip.

Basically, I am getting this cruise for 1/2 price. Still a great value.

My understanding is that some of the trades are about 170 points for 1 week depending on the time of year (including Hawaii). We haven't done this, so I can't tell you the value.

 

[Hibernians]

ChiDad - you should be able to read what the points are for the other non-Disney resorts (such as Interval) with the marketing material. I know that a 2BR suite was 270 points/week year round through Interval - and this was at resorts all over the globe.
I recently joined DVC so I cannot tell you first hand how it works at non-Disney resorts and from what I have gathered at these boards, not many people have used DVC points outside of Disney.
I intend to take the kids to WDW a lot while they are young and then explore the nonDsiney resorts when they get bigger. I believe DVC is a great way to do this - there are so many options.

 

[CHIdadOF3]

Wow! Lots of great advice - thanks to all who have responded. It seems as though most of the responses indicate that the DVC is actually not suitable for our purposes. While I would be happy returning to WDW every year (as would the kids) my DW doesn't want to be locked into the same vacation every year. Don't get me wrong, she loves WDW but we thought this would give us a great opportunity and flexibility to visit other locations outside of DIS and do it cost effectively. However, that doesn't appear to be the case - at least not on the surface.

I'm down but not out... Marketing material should be arriving any day now so I'll take a look at the numbers for the non-DIS properties and go from there.

Again, greatly appreciate the wealth of information everyone has provided.

 

[shantay1008]

I don't know how to do the thing where you quote from another post, so I'll just cut and paste this one. It's from Eliza, and it was in another thread debating whether or not to join DVD. It gave me some hope!

"I'll jump in with my 2 cents worth. My family & I also enjoy having the ability to try other places. We've been to Washington D.C, New York & london all using our vacation points and we've stayed in 4 star hotel that we would neverstay in regularly. Also we definitely stay at WDW a lot longer (generally 12 days) than we would if we had to pay for it."

She may have some more information for you about how she accomplished all this.

 

[disneydenisel]

I just want to chime in that I haven't read a lot on these boards about people exchanging out a lot. Some were recently looking for advice on Hawaii and trying to trade for 2 two-bedrooms. Most people wrote that it would be hard, and if they wanted the Marriott on Maui, it might be really hard to even get a 1-bedroom.

This, of course, doesn't mean it's not possible, but if you have your sights set on certain locations, resorts, and specific dates (like school breaks) then it gets difficult. I'd recommend writing down the places that you want to travel to with your family, figuring out what kind of accommodations you like, figuring out how far in advance you can plan, and then maybe narrowing down your choices. If you decide that you like the hotel-based systems (Hyatt, Marriott, Hilton, Starwood, Four Seasons), then look at those. A lot can be bought on the resale market, saving thousands of dollars.

We own a Starwood in Maui but visited BCV in November and loved it . Now we are awaiting ROFR on a resale BCV contract. I decided that I would buy where I want to go and not rely on trading since we'd be looking for high demand weeks like Spring Break, Presidents' Week, Thanksgiving, or Christmas.

Good luck!