Have you changed your mind about renting points?

[CarolMN]

Given diesel's recent experience (DVC holding owner responsible for credit card bill of guest/renter), have you changed your mind about renting points to others? Here's a link to the thread for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

Is this legal for DVC to do?

The relevant info (whether you agree with it or not) is diesel's update:

"Well I contacted Member Accounting today and didn't get very far. They are adament that I am responsible for the bill whether there was a problem with the credit card or not. When I asked why I was not contacted about having my account put on hold the woman said that they have thousands of holds and don't have time to contact all of the members".

I'm really not looking for a debate on whether or not DVC can (or should) do it this way - you can debate that in the referenced thread. Just wondering if this will (or has) changed anyone's mind about renting their points.

Best wishes -

 

[JimFitz]

I will never rent again.

 

[TammyAlphabet]

I will not plan to rent any points. That post scared me! If I do, I will only rent to people that I know personally and know where they live. I only have 150 points so I am sure I will be able to find a way to put them to good use.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I doubt I would have rented points out anyway, but that information definitely would give me a great deal of pause. I probably would only rent to people I know given that bit of information.

 

[bobbiwoz]

We never planned to rent, so it hasn't changed my mind, but now I will only try to transfer points if we ever have any "left over." I did read the post and
made that definite conclusion because of it. DH was against renting from the start.

Bobbi

 

[JimC]

This will be interesting. I wonder if that other thread will cause a change of view about renting. One possible approach may be to requrie an additional refundable deposit from renters to cover potential "damages". Possibly only doing this from someone the owner does not know.

 

[rascalmom]

We are new & really only bought enough points for our own use in any given year. I haved rented points from this board before our purchase - never even thought about any risk to the DVC owner after they had my money because they had control of the reservation. With the recent discussion, if I have to rent, it will probably be by transfer to another member. I definitely WOULD NOT rent to my family, lol!

 

[Tagrel]

Nothing has actually changed though has it? Since 1992 people have been renting DVC points. How many other instances of this have we heard about? How many rooms have been trashed by renters, and the owner had to pay to repair? How many items stolen that the owner had to pay to replace?

People can't charge to the room without Disney approving their CC at checkin. In this case, Disney's system somehow did not show this renter's charges until AFTER it was too late to charge their card, and put a hold on the owners account. To abuse this 'loophole' renters would have to be extremely lucky and have Disney screw up as they did in this case. Or somehow commit credit card fraud directly, and set themselves up for a nice jail term.

Since the charging limit is $1500, that should be the most any renter could 'skip out on'. I would think a renter could steal and/or damage greater than $1500 worth of DVC belongings pretty easily if they intended to do so. And everyone seems to agree that the owner is responsible for stolen or damaged DVC property. Again - I haven't read ANY accounts of this happening.

As always, doing a bit of research before you rent (renter or rentee) is VERY important. Making sure your contract covers these various areas is also very important. Renting to/from a stranger with one post probably isn't EVER a smart choice. Checking out a renter/rentee as best you can has always been the best course of action. And is basically common sense.

What I see from this situation are those that don't care for renting using this as a reason for others NOT to rent. Beat that drum and scare off the renters... Leaves better pickings for the non-renter! Those comfortable with the risks (the SAME risks that were always there since 1992) will continue to rent, and if this reduces the number of renters, they'll probably make MORE profit as renting prices go up.

Anyway - when you actually think THROUGH the situation and don't just react, I'll bet the outcome will be very little overall change to DVC renting.

 

[mikesmom]

I have rented in the past when we had family illness and had to cancel our own ressie. I do not forsee wanting or needing to rent in the future, but DH is pretty casual about saying "Oh, just rent enough rooms for us and the kids/friends/family members. If they can't go, we'll just rent out the ressie."

After seeing that thread that is NOT what will be happening in this family. Friends and family only that I can find and choke if necessary.

 

[WDWLVR]

I don't see us renting out, but if we do it will only be to family or friends. Right now we mostly use the points ourselves and every so often we give my in-laws a week down at Vero (they love it there much more than at Disney).


I don't see that changing in the near future.

 

[bobbiwoz]

You know, I just realized that we did have strangers (to us) using our points when we donated points for volunteers of th Give the Kids the World organization to have a weekend get-away at OKW.

I had no qualms about that then, and I would do it again if I found myself with points that would expire for one reason or another.

Bobbi

 

[bbowers]

You missed an option on the poll that fits me -

Have only transferred in the past, and will only transfer in the future

I've never felt comfortable renting, and never will.

 

[mom23boys]

I replyed to the wrong one. I will only rent to family or friends. I am doing so in August 52 to my DSis and 65 to my Inlaws. I will make sure that they are responsible for their own charges.

Boy, that post really made me nervous.

 

[NCombs]

Nothing has actually changed though has it? Since 1992 people have been renting DVC points. How many other instances of this have we heard about? How many rooms have been trashed by renters, and the owner had to pay to repair? How many items stolen that the owner had to pay to replace?

People can't charge to the room without Disney approving their CC at checkin. In this case, Disney's system somehow did not show this renter's charges until AFTER it was too late to charge their card, and put a hold on the owners account. To abuse this 'loophole' renters would have to be extremely lucky and have Disney screw up as they did in this case. Or somehow commit credit card fraud directly, and set themselves up for a nice jail term.

Since the charging limit is $1500, that should be the most any renter could 'skip out on'. I would think a renter could steal and/or damage greater than $1500 worth of DVC belongings pretty easily if they intended to do so. And everyone seems to agree that the owner is responsible for stolen or damaged DVC property. Again - I haven't read ANY accounts of this happening.

As always, doing a bit of research before you rent (renter or rentee) is VERY important. Making sure your contract covers these various areas is also very important. Renting to/from a stranger with one post probably isn't EVER a smart choice. Checking out a renter/rentee as best you can has always been the best course of action. And is basically common sense.

What I see from this situation are those that don't care for renting using this as a reason for others NOT to rent. Beat that drum and scare off the renters... Leaves better pickings for the non-renter! Those comfortable with the risks (the SAME risks that were always there since 1992) will continue to rent, and if this reduces the number of renters, they'll probably make MORE profit as renting prices go up.

Anyway - when you actually think THROUGH the situation and don't just react, I'll bet the outcome will be very little overall change to DVC renting.

Very well said. I agree with everything you wrote.

 

[crisi]

I agree nothing has changed, and there was a thread a few years ago where the same thing happened. But

What I see from this situation are those that don't care for renting using this as a reason for others NOT to rent. Beat that drum and scare off the renters... Leaves better pickings for the non-renter! Those comfortable with the risks (the SAME risks that were always there since 1992) will continue to rent, and if this reduces the number of renters, they'll probably make MORE profit as renting prices go up.

I see this, but a few other things going on as well. Some people don't like the idea of anyone renting at any price. Some people honestly want people to understand that there are real risks to renting your points - or even having friends use them - this an uncommon one, but it is a real risk.

 

[Lesli54]

The thread you refer to is one bad instance in a large number of good instances. Really, it was only an accounting error. These things happen all the time in companies of all sizes.

Really renting points out is no different than renting out building that you own. There are risks to both sides and if the renter screws up, you are liable. Plan and simple. I agree with everything that Tagrel said. Know who you are renting to.

A simple error, such as the one that brought about this poll can be resolved quite easily between all parties with just a phone call or two. Even if you were renting to strangers, this issue would resolve quickly. It would be very rare that you actually got stuck with someone's CC charges back to the room.

I will continue to rent as I see fit and I am sure that this will not change the minds of many.

 

[HookdonWDW]

there was a thread a few years ago where the same thing happened.

Yep. That was me. I tried to pull up my old thread, but couldn't. Since that time, I have only transferred points (usually into my account - don't have a lot of "extra" points ) or dealt w/ other DVC owners I "know" (have someone I trade with so they can book BCV, and we can book HH). It may not happen that often, but does that really matter if it happens to you??

 

[vascubaguy]

I'm in the ROFR waiting stage on a very small contract that would only fit our vacation needs, so not really any to rent. I had considered getting another contract that would allow me to take longer or more vacations and have a few extra to rent to cover some of the MN fees.

I might have to rethink that and only consider transfer or rental to friends/family. However, I hope I can make some new DIS friends because I might need to rent/transfer points to cover some stays in the future...

 

[bamagirl@hrt]

I am not a DVC member, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to any of you. I realize that this person's experience shocked some of you, and made you afraid of renting to strangers. I just in the last week made arrangements to rent points from a DVC member for the first time. I am a stranger to her & she to me. I researched her as well as I could on the boards. I hope she did the same with me.

After reading the posts in this thread and the previous one that started all of this, I just needed to post my two cents worth. I completely understand that there could be bad apples in the mix -- both members and renters. That's where that element of trust comes in. I have to believe that most of us who are looking to rent points are looking for the opportunity to stay in a nicer and/or larger room than they could afford otherwise. For me, it's a great opportunity to convince my DH to try a deluxe resort. While I've always enjoyed the convenience of charging to my room, I would not mind if the DVC member could make that not be an option, if that made her feel better protected.

Again, I don't mean to be disrepectful in any way. I have felt welcomed on this board, even though I'm not a DVCer. But now I almost feel like ya'll view me as someone poised to trash the resort, charge the moon, and leave you with the tab. If that is the common feeling, I'll just hang out over on the other boards.

Thanks for letting me air my opinion.

Christy

 

[Tagrel]

I agree nothing has changed, and there was a thread a few years ago where the same thing happened. But

I see this, but a few other things going on as well. Some people don't like the idea of anyone renting at any price. Some people honestly want people to understand that there are real risks to renting your points - or even having friends use them - this an uncommon one, but it is a real risk.

Absolutely agree that everyone needs to fully understand their liability and identify the real risks. But everyone has lived with this real risk since DVC started, its nothing new nor does it commonly occur.

For all those that were unaware, its quite the eye opener, but once you get past the shock factor its no worse than the other liabilities of renting. If you rent to bad people, bad things can happen. Its a risk every renter takes. Doing your homework first can greatly reduce this risk, but it remains a risk just the same.

For the record, I've rented points exactly once. 14 points to be exact so that a online friend could try out BWV before they bought in. We use our points ourselves and if I do rent them out in the future it will ALWAYS be to someone that I either know or have thoroughly checked out. Any doubts, and a rental just won't happen.