Have the menus changed because of free dining?

[Colleen27]

Last Monday I went to Citrico's, taking my oldest grandnephew who had just arrived for College Program. (I figured the condemned should have a hearty meal.) With iced tea each, a shared appetizer, and each having an entree and dessert the bill, after my TiW discount, gratuity and tax, came to over $100 for the two of us.

There were families there with well-behaved children. However there was one family with both an infant (and you should have seen the maneuvering to get the giant stroller to the table) and about a five year old who could not be kept still or quiet. Luckily that family was far enough away that it did not really disturb our meal, but it is something that I could have done without. And I would have hated to have been at an adjoining table.

Maybe my idea to get rid of the basic DDP is too strong; But possibly all the current signature restaurants could be removed from DDP but still leave the dinner shows as using two credits.

This is why families like that irk me so badly - the families with well behaved children hardly get noticed, the family with ill-behaved, overtired children get noticed, and then people want to see restrictions in place that would greatly diminish the experiences available to the former in order to get rid of or cut down on the latter.

Selfishly, since we do the deluxe dining plan, I'd rather see the basic plan go away than the signatures excluded from the plans. Without the signature restaurants, the deluxe plan has zero appeal. I've no interest in eating 3 meals per day at Disney, and I'm even less interested in eating what by most reviews is mediocre, mass produced food at the dinner shows.

 

[ThumperandLitenin]

This is why families like that irk me so badly - the families with well behaved children hardly get noticed, the family with ill-behaved, overtired children get noticed, and then people want to see restrictions in place that would greatly diminish the experiences available to the former in order to get rid of or cut down on the latter.

Selfishly, since we do the deluxe dining plan, I'd rather see the basic plan go away than the signatures excluded from the plans. Without the signature restaurants, the deluxe plan has zero appeal. I've no interest in eating 3 meals per day at Disney, and I'm even less interested in eating what by most reviews is mediocre, mass produced food at the dinner shows.

No, selfish is how you would describe the parents who would bring an infant and a "busy" child in a stroller to a nice restaurant in the first place.
There are far too many places in WDW to take the little ones where they would have a better time.

 

[MarkinNM]

Mark:

Your points are well taken, but I would argue that the sig restaurants were doing fine prior to DDP. If anything, I would think they would be trying to develop stand-out dishes to distinguish themselves.

I'll agree that Disney isn't doing much of anything special in their sig restaurants now, but I think they used to. Certainly V&A proves that.

I think it boils down to do you want to do volume or quality. It looks like Disney is going the volume route right now.

Being from New Orleans, we have a number of world-class retaurants which almost go out of their way to make it hard to dine. They do that in order to uphold standards that have made them world famous. Same in restaurants I've been to in New York, Chicago, and L.A.

It sounds like you are in the restaurant business, so I'm not trying to be contentious here. But I would think that if you were trying to establish an upper-end restaurant, you would set some pretty high standards, and that would include your menu, dress code, admission practices, etc.

It appears to me that Disney is going in the opposite direction. But in the end, burning two TS credits for an otherwise mediocre meal from a place that used to be top-notch just isn't going to fly with the general public. So in the end, the restaurant dies. I think you are beginning to see that with Le Cellier.

Not being from the west, I was not aware that Las Vegas was considered a dining destination. DW and I were there last fall and really didn't find any place that stood out, although Todd English' Olives was excellent.

While I am not remotelty close to being able to identify the fine dining spots in Las Vegas, most seemed geared more towards attartcing patrons by interesting theming, but not offering anything that would be considered a signature dish. If anything, that's the same model that Disney seems to be following.

I do disagree that it's all about the kids. It's about the adults too. There's nothing wrong with carving out some spots for just adults to enjoy a quiet, romantic meal. I have a hard time believing a seven year old would rather eat dinner at the Yachtsman Steakhouse instead of Chef Mickey's.

Don't get me wrong, I love doing the character meals, Hoop-Dee-Do Review, whatever. However, it is fun to get away from all of that once or twice during a trip.

Your statement would tend to make the point that standards are being lowered to broaden the audience. I think that hurts the value being offered.

If that's how it all shakes out, no big deal. There are actually of plenty of TS and CS places where I love to eat any way. I'm just not interested in dropping over $150 for the same atmosphere I can get in Pecos Bill Cafe (one of my faves!).

Best Regards.

Thump

Not in the resturant business anymore, but 20 years worth of work in them...

Las Vegas IS dining!!

Some of the best food in the US is located there with chefs from all over the world establishing restaurants in Vegas , fine dining spots in Las Vegas,
Aureole (Mandalay Bay)
Le Cirque (Bellagio)
Renior (Mirage)
Le Cirque (Bellagio)
Fleur de Lys (Mandalay Bay)
Alizé (Palms Casino)
with such chefs as Todd English, Michael Mina, Tom Colicchio, Emeril Lagasse, Wolfgang Puck, Thomas Keller, Paul Bartolotta, Charlie Palmer, Joel Robuchon, Hubert Keller to just name a few……
And in have eaten in many of the named restaurants, I had some fine food there on par to what I have had anywhere including in New Orleans, ask Emeril as he has I think 3 establishments in LV but that’s a whole different subject and NOT what Disney is about……

Yes if one is trying to establish an upper end dining experience there are certain expectations one deems BUT those types of eating establishments would not open one up in a theme park atmosphere with TONS of kids and cranky parents who are tired of the heat and lines and costs and making the most out of a vacation every second. Agreed the parents who take a 3 year old to Yachtsmen or V&A is just plain silly but if they are paying for the meal either prepaid, DDP, or with cash its their $ to do with what they want. I just don’t like the phrase “dumbing down a menu” poor choice of words…

GREAT thread though.............

Disney IS about the kids.........

 

[Colleen27]

Interesting . . . has it always been that way? I remember a toddler at V&A in the early 90's.

No, it hasn't. That's a pretty recent change, since I've been on the DIS, and I couldn't believe the fuss people made over it when it was first announced. I can't imagine taking a child much younger than 10 there anyway. DD8 might enjoy it, just because she's the kind of kid who loves getting dressed up and doing "fancy" things, but I wouldn't take her until she's a few years older and has more experience with gourmet foods. For now, the signature restaurants and the Garden View tea are plenty fancy enough.

 

[ThumperandLitenin]

Not in the resturant business anymore, but 20 years worth of work in them...

Las Vegas IS dining!!

Some of the best food in the US is located there with chefs from all over the world establishing restaurants in Vegas , fine dining spots in Las Vegas,
Aureole (Mandalay Bay)
Le Cirque (Bellagio)
Renior (Mirage)
Le Cirque (Bellagio)
Fleur de Lys (Mandalay Bay)
Alizé (Palms Casino)
with such chefs as Todd English, Michael Mina, Tom Colicchio, Emeril Lagasse, Wolfgang Puck, Thomas Keller, Paul Bartolotta, Charlie Palmer, Joel Robuchon, Hubert Keller to just name a few……
And in have eaten in many of the named restaurants, I had some fine food there on par to what I have had anywhere including in New Orleans, ask Emeril as he has I think 3 establishments in LV but that’s a whole different subject and NOT what Disney is about……

Yes if one is trying to establish an upper end dining experience there are certain expectations one deems BUT those types of eating establishments would not open one up in a theme park atmosphere with TONS of kids and cranky parents who are tired of the heat and lines and costs and making the most out of a vacation every second. Agreed the parents who take a 3 year old to Yachtsmen or V&A is just plain silly but if they are paying for the meal either prepaid, DDP, or with cash its their $ to do with what they want. I just don’t like the phrase “dumbing down a menu” poor choice of words…

GREAT thread though.............

Okay, I'm dropping the dumbing down the menu line.

We are pretty close here actually.

So, can you argue this point: I certainly concede that currently a DDP participant is as entitled to eat at a sig as an OOP diner. However, how many of those DDP diners would be there if they had to pay OOP?

That being the case then, don't you think the menus might not be so "standardized" ("teeth gritted" )? I just have a hard time believing that 75% of the DDP crowd would go OOP to eat at the sigs.

Thump

P.S. - thanks for the Vegas restaurant list. I may be hitting you up for more suggestions in the future.

 

[MarkinNM]

Okay, I'm dropping the dumbing down the menu line.

We are pretty close here actually.

So, can you argue this point: I certainly concede that currently a DDP participant is as entitled to eat at a sig as an OOP diner. However, how many of those DDP diners would be there if they had to pay OOP?

That being the case then, don't you think the menus might not be so "standardized" ("teeth gritted" )? I just have a hard time believing that 75% of the DDP crowd would go OOP to eat at the sigs.

Thump

P.S. - thanks for the Vegas restaurant list. I may be hitting you up for more suggestions in the future.

True, some if not most of the DDP crowd would not be eating at some of the "better" (signature rest) Disney places with "standardized" menus if there were no DDP. I have no issues on having an adult type of place, even Disney needs that. In having an upcoming trip to the world, we are sooooo looking forward in trying the food in Disney as I do get sick of Burgers ect as the typical food in theme parks, in which I think Disney is trying to do with a signature restaurants, something different then hotdogs, pizza, burgers etc……

Vegas is a GREAT adult getaway for a few days with some AWESOME food BTW....

 

[Colleen27]

I do disagree that it's all about the kids. It's about the adults too. There's nothing wrong with carving out some spots for just adults to enjoy a quiet, romantic meal. I have a hard time believing a seven year old would rather eat dinner at the Yachtsman Steakhouse instead of Chef Mickey's.

Don't get me wrong, I love doing the character meals, Hoop-Dee-Do Review, whatever. However, it is fun to get away from all of that once or twice during a trip.

It isn't all about the kids. It is about the whole family - that's why Disney is so much more successful than other theme parks. And many parents aren't going to want to put up with something like Chef Mickey's or even Hoop Dee Do every evening.

As far as what the kids would choose, mine were 9 & 6 on the last trip and neither would choose CM or other buffets with any regularity. Yachtsman wasn't a big hit with either of them, but California Grill and Narcoosees both made their must-do list, along with Teppan Edo, Tutto Italia and Kona Cafe. Chef Mickey's is the only character meal (out of 5 that we've tried thus far) to make that list. My oldest in particular is really looking forward to signature dining on our next trip, since he's "graduated" to the adult DDP.

 

[TDC Nala]

If Disney is about the kids, why do so many adults with no kids go? Why have a food & wine festival, kids don't care about food and wine. Why not close V&A and put in another character meal? Why even have any signature restaurants? I am pretty sure it's established that Disney is not "about the kids." If it were, I would not be on this board and a lot of people I know would not be either.

The V&A change to kids 10 and older only took place a couple of years ago and there was a total blowup on the boards with people arguing everything from age discrimination to violation of basic human rights to deny children food in a restaurant.

 

[MarkinNM]

If Disney is about the kids, why do so many adults with no kids go?

Ahhhhh, I was waiting for that one................

Inside every adult is a kid..................

Ok, I think it was put better, Disney is about Family............

 

[TDC Nala]

Then why do I go? I'm single, I go with my friends. So much for families only.

At any rate this thread is getting quite off topic. If anyone has seen a menu change for free dining, feel free to post it here.

 

[MarkinNM]

Then why do I go? I'm single, I go with my friends. So much for families only.

At any rate this thread is getting quite off topic.

To let your kid (fun) out....

Off topic not really, all the replies have good points.....

Since this is my last off topic reply..........

Why is your green light ALWAYS off but you seem to on?????

 

[Colleen27]

I guess my point (and perhaps one I am not communicating well) is that why does Disney have to alienate the "foodie" in order to appeal to the masses. I actually think they should absolutely not get rid of the DDP (as I think that is appealing to a lot of people), but figure out a way to also make the people who want a high level dining experience welcomed and desired -> heck, they are usually the ones who are dropping the most $ per person

maybe have some restaurants do a "foodie" night where one night a week they aren't on the plan, or just take a couple of more restaurants off the plan and encourage the staff to target the "foodie" or have more restaurants have chefs tables or just something that lets the "foodie" feel like their desires are being cared about without annoying the person trying to be on a budget or who enjoys the DDP for other reasons

Just seems like Disney World is so large that there is a way to appeal to both sides

I see what you're saying. Disney does a little of this - chef's tables at V&A and Citricos (do they still do that one?), wine dinners at Jiko, some of the food & wine events, dining with an Imagineer, etc. Expanding those offerings would be a good middle ground as far as appealing to foodies without making DDP guests feel like "second class" customers. Likewise, some of the signature restaurants have areas that could be designated for adults-only seating, ie. the wine room at California Grill, if Disney were interested in providing opportunities for more romantic, adult dining without completely excluding children from those venues.

 

[zelda64]

Ahhhhh, I was waiting for that one................

Inside every adult is a kid..................

Ok, I think it was put better, Disney is about Family............

Agreed. When we go to Disney, we fully expect to see families with or without children. It's a family-oriented theme park.

And generally, we're more busy enjoying our meal than worrying about children at a Disney restaurant.

 

[Colleen27]

No, selfish is how you would describe the parents who would bring an infant and a "busy" child in a stroller to a nice restaurant in the first place.
There are far too many places in WDW to take the little ones where they would have a better time.

See, I don't agree with this. My kids have been going to restaurants basically since birth and by the time they were toddlers they understood a rudimentary version of table manners. My youngest is 1, and even she can sit nicely, "talk" with us, or play with quiet toys through an hour or hour and a half at the table. But it isn't something that comes naturally - it is a habit that needs time & training to develop, and I think that's where a lot of the situations you tend to see at Disney stem from: parents placing their kids in unfamiliar situations with unclear expectations of behaviour, or worse, parents who don't seem to know how to behave appropriately themselves (like those who would wheel a big stroller into a restaurant!).

 

[TDC Nala]

The OP wanted to know if any menus changed due to the free DDP...now we're getting into kids in restaurants, time to bring it back on topic or we'll need to close it and start again... I do like these discussions. But it's not what the OP was after.

 

[copperbrick]

So, back to the original question: Which restaurants have changed menus, and how have they changed them?

If the change was in quality or quantity rather than choice, what are the changes?

Many thanks to those who posted about prime rib and onion soup.

Have the menus REALLY changed all that much? Show us!

PS: I have to say, every time I look at a Disney signature menu, it seems to be short ribs, pork chicken, beef fillet, salmon, pork, something vegetarian . . . and often there is often something two-ways.

Although, I guess that's true for most restaurants!

The problem is, I can't remember what the menus were like previously (back to the hot bathtub analogy posted earlier).

Help?

 

[TDC Nala]

I'm deleting further off-topic posts about children in restaurants. Please try to stick to the OP's question.

 

[Beaker74]

If you are not on Free Dining can you order items that have been omitted? Unfortunately DVC members do not get Free Dining ever, guess they figure they've already got us coming, why give them free food. A discount on DDP would be a nice offer though!

 

[ParrotBill]

Count me in the camp of menus getting dumbed down by the DDP (DDP, not necessarily free dining). As the DDP became popular and promoted, we saw many restaurants remove expensive items and go to ordinary choices.

Coral Reef - no more Dover Sole or interesting fish choices. Now it's Mahi Mahi and Salmon.

Teppan Edo - 3 years ago removed lobster and seafood combinations from menu (Nihon-Kai). Basic steak, chicken, shrimp. Scallops are the best item left. No salad served any longer.

Narcoosee's - removed their signature dish, lobster. Then added it back by becoming a signature (2 credit) restaurant. Note nothing else on their menu is worth 2 TS credits.

I firmly agree that Disney is throwing away the dining reputation they worked so hard to build. Many of us who visit year after year do in fact come for the resorts and restaurants more than the park attractions.

So far this trip we enjoyed Chefs de France, Biergarten and Kouzzina's, but were disappointed by Teppan Edo (but good show) and Princess Breakfast in Norway (unbelievably expensive for blah food.)

 

[Karlzmom]

Wow I guess Ignorant people visit WDW, why order something you have no idea what it is, and then send it back, If I was the manager on duty I would have not let them changed it for another appy! that’s really sad those type of people are probably the reason that they stopped including the appetizer in the regular dining plan, People should order based on what they like not what the cost is, like me if they had wings as an appy at 7.99 and Escargot at 11.99 I am ordering the wings cause hey I know I like wings and rather forgo the snails lol!

The people who visit Disney are a cross-section of the general population...and YES there are a lot of dumb people out there. PERIOD. There are also a lot of demanding people....can't you just picture all the rantings about how "un-magical" Disney was to not change the appy....after all, its *their special trip* and the manager ruined the whole trip.... The worst is when someone who is dumb & demanding....
You are right, people should just order what they like without trying to "game" the DDP, but we have all seen the people who have figured out what to order at each place to "maximize" because they *have* to get the most/best/biggest....

Anyway, I am also interested in any menu changes since free dining started...we are OOP w/ TIW people on our 1st trip during the infamous free dining. I hope that there are not too many take-aways.