Have questions re: college tuition/loans for DD

[christineann]

"FAFSA is an annual event at our house"

At my house, it's the day that everyone else leaves the house, and I do my taxes and the FAFSA in solitude. That way, no one gets hurt

FWIW, I am a single parent with a salary in the 40's and no help, and we couldn't qualify for any Perkins grant when my first child started college because of my income. We got a small one when my second child started college. We used to have a savings account for the college educations, but the ex spent it all without my knowledge on vodka and other activities. I have parent PLUS loans, and each of my kids has some college loans. I have a child in a state school (partially funded by academic scholarships) in North Carolina, and she works for her university. My son went to a state school in North Carolina also and worked while he was in college. He got the job he wanted (in his major field) before he walked at graduation. Several of his wealthy high school classmates, however, went to private colleges at $40k/year, partied for 4 years, and are delivering pizzas because their parents finally said they've got to do SOMETHING. Before I would pay for my kid to go to college, especially a very expensive one, he'd better have a plan for his future. My son is a huge success, even more so when compared to his former classmates.

Though I don't talk about my children and college when I'm at work, I get a lot of grief from my coworkers for helping provide a college education for my children, because they don't think I should do it. I don't have much, so I will do whatever I can to help them (not hand them) an education. Interesting point......my "critics" have children with criminal records, and they keep bailing their adult children out of jail again and again.

 

[MrsPete]

Ok, dh was a HS dropout and you have to understand that not everyone can do what you did. He had 7 HS credits and dropped out in 10th grade.

Anyway my dh is paying school loans and makes a good living. Yes, he has debt however it is what it is.

I don't know how you "knew" all of this stuff but back then we were clueless.

I'm not sure what being a high school drop out has to do with it -- he had to qualify himself for college, and once he'd done that the drop-out thing was a null and void issue.

I'm not sure what stuff I knew about back then, but I was determined that debt was a bad thing -- I'm still sure of that -- and I felt that working like a dog today. going without today was better than promising away tomorrow's income.

That is assuming you have to pay 100% of your child's education expenses. Honestly, the best way to save for your child's college it to make sure they do well in school-the scholarships will follow. Also, for a lot of people by the time their child starts college, the amount they have to pay isn't horrible.

I agree that any child who's headed for college should be encouraged to do his best in school, but I do not agree that you can assume scholarships will follow. I've seen plenty of very good students who applied for everything and ended up with nothing. PREPARE YOURSELF well and TRY for everything . . . but don't assume that anyone'll give you anything. That's setting yourself up for disappointment.

How do people do it? By saving for college from the time the kids are little instead of taking expensive vacations every year and by choosing state schools that don't cost $150,000 to go to. At least that's how my family did it.

Yes, it's about priorities. When we were first married -- obviously before we had kids -- we decided that saving was a top financial priority for us. We live in a moderate house, drive reasonable cars, take moderate vacations, etc., etc., etc. This has allowed us to put away money so that in only two more years when we start paying college expenses, we won't panic.

One thing I notice pretty often is that parents can afford to buy their students a new car when they turn 16 but can't scrape together college tuition. It's about priorities.

I hate it when I see this thrown out there, state schools are NOT always less expensive. In my case a state school would have cost me 5 times more then what I paid at the private college I attended. Many of our friends' kids are finding the same thing. It isn't a state school vs private school or even a $15K year vs $40k/year argument, it is about applying to a wide range of schools and picking the one that works the best for you.

Today after church we went out to a very nice restaurant, and we used a buy-one-entree-get-one-free coupon. Our meal cost about the same as a meal at some place like Chilis or Friday's. But this was an unusual situation; the vast majority of the time, I wouldn't have a coupon . . . and the vast majority of the time the restaurant where we ate today would've cost more.

The private-schools-can-be-had-for-less-than-state-schools thing is exactly the same. MOST OF THE TIME a private school costs more; OCCASIONALLY for that certain student, for whatever reason, it turns out to be less expensive. The vast majority of the time, however, the school with the smaller price tag costs more less. I've rarely, rarely, rarely seen the private school come out to cost less.

I understand, golfgirl, that you've said you live in an unusual place where scholarships abound and no one actually pays to go to college, but this is not reality for my area, and I don't think it's reality for most people's areas.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree. I started out at a community college and I missed out on the freshman year at the dorm. I wouldn't want my girls to miss out on that. By the time I went to the 4 year school after a couple of years at community college I felt like I was too old to be in a dorm. At that age everyone is moving out into apartments. If I had planned better I would have been able to go straight to the 4 year school right out of high school.

I agree that it's BETTER to go straight to the 4-year school, but sometimes finances require that hard choices have to be made. For some people, it may come down to, "Do you want to graduate with debt and deal with that burden for the first years of your professional life, or do you want to miss out on the first couple years in the dorms, in which those first college friendships are forged?"

There is no good choice there. I don't want my girls to have to make those choices, and so I started saving for their educations before they were conceived.

 

[golfgal]

I'm not sure what being a high school drop out has to do with it -- he had to qualify himself for college, and once he'd done that the drop-out thing was a null and void issue.

I'm not sure what stuff I knew about back then, but I was determined that debt was a bad thing -- I'm still sure of that -- and I felt that working like a dog today. going without today was better than promising away tomorrow's income. I agree that any child who's headed for college should be encouraged to do his best in school, but I do not agree that you can assume scholarships will follow. I've seen plenty of very good students who applied for everything and ended up with nothing. PREPARE YOURSELF well and TRY for everything . . . but don't assume that anyone'll give you anything. That's setting yourself up for disappointment. Yes, it's about priorities. When we were first married -- obviously before we had kids -- we decided that saving was a top financial priority for us. We live in a moderate house, drive reasonable cars, take moderate vacations, etc., etc., etc. This has allowed us to put away money so that in only two more years when we start paying college expenses, we won't panic. Today after church we went out to a very nice restaurant, and we used a buy-one-entree-get-one-free coupon. Our meal cost about the same as a meal at some place like Chilis or Friday's. But this was an unusual situation; the vast majority of the time, I wouldn't have a coupon . . . and the vast majority of the time the restaurant where we ate today would've cost more.

The private-schools-can-be-had-for-less-than-state-schools thing is exactly the same. MOST OF THE TIME a private school costs more; OCCASIONALLY for that certain student, for whatever reason, it turns out to be less expensive. The vast majority of the time, however, the school with the smaller price tag costs more less. I've rarely, rarely, rarely seen the private school come out to cost less.

I understand, golfgirl, that you've said you live in an unusual place where scholarships abound and no one actually pays to go to college, but this is not reality for my area, and I don't think it's reality for most people's areas.

I never said that, I said no one pays 100% of their college-but if you are top 10 in your class or so, you won't pay anything for college. I think you are the one that lives in an unusual place where all these "good" students never get anything for college. Perhaps it is the definition of good, perhaps it is that your schools are not good so doing well there doesn't mean much--I HAVE NO IDEA. Heck, our DS isn't a good student (he is a LAZY student that could be a good student) and he is getting scholarships because he did above average on his ACT. I don't know exactly what your job is and what you do to help all these kids with scholarships but maybe it is worth a visit to a school around here to see what they do???

We get daily emails from our counselors office listing new scholarships they find or have come into the school office. They even have a process set up where the kids only have to fill out one application for all the scholarships that are available in our school office (local ones mostly). Here are a few from Friday:

$1,000 Scholarship for High School Seniors who demonstrate integrity, honesty, respect, service, positive attitude & professionalism.
Nomination forms due: 03/12 (this is from a local bank)

The other one is from the boys soccer team booster club available to any senior that has participated in soccer

One for $500 for anyone that attended one of the local elementary schools (actually all the elementary schools in our town have one like this).

Maybe we are just lucky that we have such a good counseling office. My high school had all this too. I guess I just assumed that most schools would have this as well.

 

[testifyoncruises]

We will never fill out the FASFA for our DD. We expect her to work and pay for college herself even if it takes her ten years to get a degree. We fund our retirement first. There are several other routes to getting funds for college than filling out some form. There are several grants and scholarship opportunities that do not require this.

The idea that a degree should take 2 or 4 or 8 years is just a number. As we have noticed in the past, other than our first job working for someone else has anyone ever looked at our degree. Now as entrepreneurs working for ourselves we don't need that degree. Going to college is important for knowledge, but our hope is that DD will never end up never working for anyone but working for herself and being the one who employs people.

 

[golfgal]

We will never fill out the FASFA for our DD. We expect her to work and pay for college herself even if it takes her ten years to get a degree. We fund our retirement first. There are several other routes to getting funds for college than filling out some form. There are several grants and scholarship opportunities that do not require this.

The idea that a degree should take 2 or 4 or 8 years is just a number. As we have noticed in the past, other than our first job working for someone else has anyone ever looked at our degree. Now as entrepreneurs working for ourselves we don't need that degree. Going to college is important for knowledge, but our hope is that DD will never end up never working for anyone but working for herself and being the one who employs people.

While there are some scholarships that don't require this ALL grants DO require the FAFSA. There is not law that says you have to do this and we have had this discussion before but what a rotten thing to do to your child--not the paying for school part but the denying her the opportunity to get scholarships and whatnot to reduce her burden. By the time your 6 year old is ready for college I bet that the vast majority of scholarships DO require this as more and more are moving that direction even now.

 

[LisaR]

I never said that, I said no one pays 100% of their college-but if you are top 10 in your class or so, you won't pay anything for college. I think you are the one that lives in an unusual place where all these "good" students never get anything for college. Perhaps it is the definition of good, perhaps it is that your schools are not good so doing well there doesn't mean much--I HAVE NO IDEA. Heck, our DS isn't a good student (he is a LAZY student that could be a good student) and he is getting scholarships because he did above average on his ACT. I don't know exactly what your job is and what you do to help all these kids with scholarships but maybe it is worth a visit to a school around here to see what they do???

We get daily emails from our counselors office listing new scholarships they find or have come into the school office. They even have a process set up where the kids only have to fill out one application for all the scholarships that are available in our school office (local ones mostly). Here are a few from Friday:

$1,000 Scholarship for High School Seniors who demonstrate integrity, honesty, respect, service, positive attitude & professionalism.
Nomination forms due: 03/12 (this is from a local bank)

The other one is from the boys soccer team booster club available to any senior that has participated in soccer

One for $500 for anyone that attended one of the local elementary schools (actually all the elementary schools in our town have one like this).

Maybe we are just lucky that we have such a good counseling office. My high school had all this too. I guess I just assumed that most schools would have this as well.

I am going to have to go with Mrs. Pete on this one. I know more than one kid in the past 5 years that has graduated in the top 10% of their class and none received a free ride. Of those, MOST (but not all) received free tuition from state schools but nothing for books and room & board. For the ones applying to private schools, they received much larger amounts from the school themselves but every single kid but one ended up at the state universities because even with the larger dollar amounts, the state schools were much cheaper. These are kids spread between three different states. I really think you are lucky nowadays to get 100% of your university experience paid for.

 

[golfgal]

I am going to have to go with Mrs. Pete on this one. I know more than one kid in the past 5 years that has graduated in the top 10% of their class and none received a free ride. Of those, MOST (but not all) received free tuition from state schools but nothing for books and room & board. For the ones applying to private schools, they received much larger amounts from the school themselves but every single kid but one ended up at the state universities because even with the larger dollar amounts, the state schools were much cheaper. These are kids spread between three different states. I really think you are lucky nowadays to get 100% of your university experience paid for.

She is saying that her good students don't get ANYTHING. That is a big difference. Also, if you have followed this over the other 20 some threads on this topic you will see that I am not talking about one scholarship that covers everything, I am talking about a combination of several scholarships that add up to pay for everything. To get a full ride in one scholarship you pretty much have to be top 10% and get a 32/33 and above on the ACT. We have some friends who's kids are making money going to college because they got enough money to cover everything AND then some so they also have spending money covered.

 

[bballmom56]

We will never fill out the FASFA for our DD. We expect her to work and pay for college herself even if it takes her ten years to get a degree. We fund our retirement first. There are several other routes to getting funds for college than filling out some form. There are several grants and scholarship opportunities that do not require this.

That's too bad because many schools may offer her merit money based on her stats (gpa, SAT/ACT) but they require a completed FAFSA before they will credit it to her. My kids' college is that way. They both received merit money (one was 1/2 tuition) but it was contingent on receiving the FAFSA, even though we did not receive any federal financial aid.

It is also required if she wanted to take out student loans.

 

[testifyoncruises]

While there are some scholarships that don't require this ALL grants DO require the FAFSA. There is not law that says you have to do this and we have had this discussion before but what a rotten thing to do to your child--not the paying for school part but the denying her the opportunity to get scholarships and whatnot to reduce her burden. By the time your 6 year old is ready for college I bet that the vast majority of scholarships DO require this as more and more are moving that direction even now.

ALL GRANTS DO NOT REQUIRE FASFA. There are such private grants do not require the filling out of this form. Not all grants are made with federal involvement. I will decide what is best for my child. You have made it quite clear that you look down at people who would DARE send their child to a community college. There are educational opportunities that do not require an IVY league education. It is far worse to burden a child with any loan or sacrifice your retirement at the risk of a child's education. Some people just cannot imagine actually you know paying for college without any assistance.

 

[testifyoncruises]

That's too bad because many schools may offer her merit money based on her stats (gpa, SAT/ACT) but they require a completed FAFSA before they will credit it to her. My kids' college is that way. They both received merit money (one was 1/2 tuition) but it was contingent on receiving the FAFSA, even though we did not receive any federal financial aid.

It is also required if she wanted to take out student loans.

This came up on Dave Ramsey a few weeks ago and he and I and DP are in agreement on this. There is NO requirement for you to fill out this form for the institutions we are looking at. There are going to be those who will go through college get a degree and spend their lives working for someone else. Our life and our teaching and belief is to be the employer and not the employee. You can get this without a silly form.

 

[MrsPete]

I never said that, I said no one pays 100% of their college-but if you are top 10 in your class or so, you won't pay anything for college. I think you are the one that lives in an unusual place where all these "good" students never get anything for college. Perhaps it is the definition of good, perhaps it is that your schools are not good so doing well there doesn't mean much--I HAVE NO IDEA. Heck, our DS isn't a good student (he is a LAZY student that could be a good student) and he is getting scholarships because he did above average on his ACT. I don't know exactly what your job is and what you do to help all these kids with scholarships but maybe it is worth a visit to a school around here to see what they do???

We get daily emails from our counselors office listing new scholarships they find or have come into the school office. They even have a process set up where the kids only have to fill out one application for all the scholarships that are available in our school office (local ones mostly). Here are a few from Friday:

$1,000 Scholarship for High School Seniors who demonstrate integrity, honesty, respect, service, positive attitude & professionalism.
Nomination forms due: 03/12 (this is from a local bank)

The other one is from the boys soccer team booster club available to any senior that has participated in soccer

One for $500 for anyone that attended one of the local elementary schools (actually all the elementary schools in our town have one like this).

Maybe we are just lucky that we have such a good counseling office. My high school had all this too. I guess I just assumed that most schools would have this as well.

Yes, kids in the top 10 are going to get good scholarships -- but for my school, that leaves about 370 other students, and I assume that MOST of the parents here are not parents of top 10 kids (the law of averages would say that it'd be rather unusual). My own daughter is a very good student and has better than a 4.0 GPA with all honors classes -- but she's not top 10. She is in the top 30.

I'm a classroom teacher who teaches exclusively seniors. So I know a good bit about who's applying where and who's getting what scholarships. Our school system is regarded as a very good one.

I think the difference here is that you're talking about top-top students, and I'm talking about the majority of seniors who are going to college -- that includes the ones who are brilliant as well as hardworking AND the strong-average students who make up the majority of the college world.

 

[MrsPete]

We will never fill out the FASFA for our DD. We expect her to work and pay for college herself even if it takes her ten years to get a degree. We fund our retirement first. There are several other routes to getting funds for college than filling out some form. There are several grants and scholarship opportunities that do not require this.

The idea that a degree should take 2 or 4 or 8 years is just a number. As we have noticed in the past, other than our first job working for someone else has anyone ever looked at our degree. Now as entrepreneurs working for ourselves we don't need that degree. Going to college is important for knowledge, but our hope is that DD will never end up never working for anyone but working for herself and being the one who employs people.

Wow. You're really limiting your child's options.

 

[MrsPete]

While there are some scholarships that don't require this ALL grants DO require the FAFSA. There is not law that says you have to do this and we have had this discussion before but what a rotten thing to do to your child--not the paying for school part but the denying her the opportunity to get scholarships and whatnot to reduce her burden. By the time your 6 year old is ready for college I bet that the vast majority of scholarships DO require this as more and more are moving that direction even now.

Yes, it's absolutely a rotten thing to do to your child. My parents filled out the forms for me (20 years ago), but they never, never, never did them until the very last possible moment -- and at that point, certain monies for which I was eligible were gone. I understand that they didn't have money to give me out of their own pockets, but I am still resentful today that they wouldn't help me in such a small way as completing some forms.

 

[MrsPete]

I am going to have to go with Mrs. Pete on this one. I know more than one kid in the past 5 years that has graduated in the top 10% of their class and none received a free ride. Of those, MOST (but not all) received free tuition from state schools but nothing for books and room & board. For the ones applying to private schools, they received much larger amounts from the school themselves but every single kid but one ended up at the state universities because even with the larger dollar amounts, the state schools were much cheaper. These are kids spread between three different states. I really think you are lucky nowadays to get 100% of your university experience paid for.

What we're seeing is the same. Thinking back to last year's graduates, I think only three received full ride scholarships. One of those was military and the others were academic. Athletic full-rides are super-rare, and we had none last year. I know of a number of students who received tuition-only type scholarships, and they're all perhaps top 10% of the class students.

I see way too many people assuming that scholarships will come along and save the day -- but it's dangerous to assume that. I'd be thrilled if my daughter gets a scholarship (and since she's going into nursing, she has a better than average chance), but I've saved money with the assumption that I'm paying.

 

[testifyoncruises]

Wow. You're really limiting your child's options.

Why? Because we are not going to have her rely on federal or state aid to pay for college? How about the fact that we expect DD to work for it and pay for her education herself with possible private grants from DP and I as well as other sources. Our intent is to possibly reward $$$ based on grades and performance and other incentives after her first year.

We don't believe in taking out loans of any kind nor do we believe in relying on the government or the state to get us to where we are in life.

You can resent it all you like, but we happen to appreciate that DP and I both paid for our education through hard work and dedication and graduated owing nothing to anyone. It is a far more rotten and horrible thing to have someone graduate college and be enslaved by college loans.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Again the ones that get screwed are the people like us who have contributed to society year after year after year to get screwed over and over again- the white, middle class American family continues to pay through their noses.I work with an anesthesiologist from another country who told me that the rich people in his country come here and their kids go to school for nothing!!!!! WTH!!!!!!!

Linda

I'm American. I'm middle class. I'm a single parent. I'm black. My son attends a private college in VA. I'm paying through the nose for him to be there. However, I'm not complaining about it. I made choices during the last 18 1/2 years that made it possible for me to pay his tuition. One of those choices was not to spend money on tons of vacations.

 

[MrsPete]

She is saying that her good students don't get ANYTHING. That is a big difference. Also, if you have followed this over the other 20 some threads on this topic you will see that I am not talking about one scholarship that covers everything, I am talking about a combination of several scholarships that add up to pay for everything. To get a full ride in one scholarship you pretty much have to be top 10% and get a 32/33 and above on the ACT. We have some friends who's kids are making money going to college because they got enough money to cover everything AND then some so they also have spending money covered.

No, that's not what I'm saying. SOME of our students -- our super-best students -- are getting scholarships, but I'm saying that I know PLENTY of good students who get nothing.

You're arguing that pretty much everyone gets SOMETHING, and I'm saying that's not what I see.

 

[LisaR]

This came up on Dave Ramsey a few weeks ago and he and I and DP are in agreement on this. There is NO requirement for you to fill out this form for the institutions we are looking at. There are going to be those who will go through college get a degree and spend their lives working for someone else. Our life and our teaching and belief is to be the employer and not the employee. You can get this without a silly form.

You strike me as someone that has a path entirely laid out for your child already and I believe she is something like 6, right? I know what I say won't change your mind so I am not sure why I would cramp my fingers for nothing but I will for the heck of it. All you can do is raise your child with good values and be a good example but when they get older, it will be in their hands. You should really prepare yourself for the fact that your child may grow up to have a different opinion or goal for herself than you or your DP have.

My parents raised four of us. They instilled their beliefs and values on us and they were great examples. I have one brother that ended up being an alien from another planet. When he hit his teen years, it all went downhill. I don't think my parents could have done anything different. It took my brother until the age of 38 to finally grow up and see the light. He still takes a different path than most would take and he seems to have a very um.......interesting.... view on most things but he did come out of his lazy, crazy, why should I get a job/go to school attitude. Work ethics were huge in our family and my parents stressed working for ourselves. Three of us seemed to get the message but somehow it passed over one for quite awhile. My point to you is that your DD may very well stomp on your well laid plans. You may want to be a little more open to what her future could entail. The fact that you have already looked into loans and colleges that she can attend that do not require federal forms to be filled when she is only six is frightening. I hope you don't find yourself with a young adult that totally revolts - although I am sure you have a sure fire plan for that already in place.

 

[MrsPete]

ALL GRANTS DO NOT REQUIRE FASFA. There are such private grants do not require the filling out of this form. Not all grants are made with federal involvement. I will decide what is best for my child. You have made it quite clear that you look down at people who would DARE send their child to a community college. There are educational opportunities that do not require an IVY league education. It is far worse to burden a child with any loan or sacrifice your retirement at the risk of a child's education. Some people just cannot imagine actually you know paying for college without any assistance.

There's nothing in between community college and Ivy League? I guess it's back to the drawing board for us.

Actually, my husband began at a community college. He wasn't a serious student in high school and had taken off a couple years to work (when he thought he didn't need a degree). He says it was absolutely the best option available to him at the time; he wasn't ready for a university. Although it was the best option for him, it did limit him later: The school he really wanted to attend wouldn't accept his transfer credits. And he spent 2 years in community college, then 3 years at the university. This isn't the plan we have in mind for our kids, but it also wasn't a bad choice -- it did lead him to a degree, which has kept him profitably employed for 22 years since graduation.

I am in complete agreement that debt is a bad thing -- which is one good reason to fill out the FAFSA and see what you can get FOR FREE. I believe that you should do all you can to help your child through college, but I also don't see any problem with taking any assistance to which you are entitled.

I hope you'll investigate this topic and reconsider your position. Your opinions on the subject don't seem to be based on facts. You're open to private grants, but not to federal grants. You want her to work, but don't want her to work for anyone else. I'm not at all clear on your position regarding what constitutes an acceptable college.