Hate to do this, but have a topic about abortion...

JennyMominRI said:
Even my most orthodox friends agree with my choice.. I haven't spoken to an O Rabbi,but I do know what Jewish law says.

That matters too, I guess, but we don't know what your own beliefs and feelings are and how you're coping with that, which is a whole other concern. I already know you're tougher than I ever will be and you'll get through it, but you must be so brokenhearted, and I hope a lot of people are there for you, now and later. In any capacity. You do not have to defend your choices here...I can tell, being a debate veteran that most people aren't touching this one anyway, and those who are won't be swayed no matter what. (That's ok, very normal.) Take care, I have to run.
 
MrsKreamer said:
I noticied this and I have to disagree. While Jesus was raised Jewish, he did not follow many of the teachings. He taught forgivness and turn the other cheek, while there law stated an eye for an eye. He broke the Jewish law by working on the Sabbath. That is actually what his charge was when he was sentenced to death. So to say that Jesus would approve of abortions in the save the mother's life situation might be a stretch. I believe that abortion is wrong, but I can not tell others how to live their lives. It is a decision that the woman has to live with.

To say that Jesus would let a woman die for a fetus would be a stretch. Jesus showed the up most respect to women. Remember when the men wanted to stone the woman who had committed adultery? These do not seem like the actions of one who put a fetuses life above the life of the mother.

Really all this WWJD stuff is getting down right silly IMO.
 
Teejay32 said:
That matters too, I guess, but we don't know what your own beliefs and feelings are and how you're coping with that, which is a whole other concern. I already know you're tougher than I ever will be and you'll get through it, but you must be so brokenhearted, and I hope a lot of people are there for you, now and later. In any capacity. You do not have to defend your choices here...I can tell, being a debate veteran that most people aren't touching this one anyway, and those who are won't be swayed no matter what. (That's ok, very normal.) Take care, I have to run.


My other kids were children from the day I knew I was pregnant... That's just how I feel.. I can't even allow myself to go there now..I do anyway.. I keep thinking ,what if I did this,what If I did that..But what I keep going back to is these 4 kids in my home..One who has already lost a mother.
And I'd love more kids. I wanted a bunch...Being a Mom was all I ever really wanted.. In A different situation this child would be very much wanted.
Of course Ed feels the same way.he would love more kids,but at this point he would rather have me around.
I'm not sure how I'm coping..I feel awful..I'm crying all the time,Sick to my stomach and exhausted..I already get sick from the anti-hiv meds and I assume it's morning sickness that's making it worse..My chest hurts...All this serves to do is remind me that the potential child of the man I love more than anyone is inside of me..
Every day I remain pregnant it becomes more and more of a human being to me,and that's the part that kills me... I just want it over with

I'm way to open and would probably be much better off if I could learn to keep my mouth shut
 
6_Time_Momma said:
You can't seriously tell me that you don't think there are women out there who have abortions and don't have any qualms whatsoever about them. I believe that there is quite a high number.

Like Snoopy said, I imagine that many women agonize over what is for them a very painful decision and qo on to question themselves for years about the choice they made.

However, I know that 6 Time Momma is right to a certain degree, also. I'm sure there are many women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy, make the decision to have an abortion, do it, and go on with their lives knowing that they made the right decision for them - no guilt, no lingering trauma, etc.

I feel reasonably confident saying that because I'm one of them. In all the abortion threads in the many years since I became a member here, I've never told anyone that. Not because I think a made a wrong choice or I feel bad about it, but because it's a personal decision and one I didn't feel the need to hash out on an internet board. For some reason, though, I feel like I need to speak up here.

I was 22 years old and a senior in college. I was set to graduate in two months and head off to graduate school all the way across the country. I'd worked very hard to get into a good program and I was thrilled about the prosepct of everything my life held. The guy involved was also a senior. We had been dating about three months. I liked him a lot, but we both knew we were going our separate ways after graduation. We had it all planned. That all changed when my period was late and I took a pregnancy test that came back positive.

I was 22 years old and I had been sexually active since I was 18, my freshman year in college. I had been on the pill the whole time and I took them religiously. I never missed one. I was educated about birth control, etc. I knew I couldn't take antibiotics, knew to take them at the same time, and alll of that. I had done all the research. My getting pregnant was not the result of being uneducated or stupid, it was just one of those freak things. I was one of the 2% or whatever.

The guy I was involved with was very sweet. He said he would do whatever I wanted him to do. He offered to marry me, even though it would mean giving up a prestigious grad school acceptance of his own. He was relieved, though, I'm sure when I suggested an abortion. We both decided, with very little drama, that it was the best solution for us. Yes, we were scared, sad, and nervous - but we were sure we were making the right decision for us. He called and made the appointment for me, went with me, and stayed with me afterwards. When it was over, I didn't feel guilty or bad - I just felt relieved.

A few months later we both graduated and went our separate ways. I moved across the country, away from everything and everyone I'd ever known and I jumped head first into the rest of my life. I've never felt bad about my choice. I've never lain awake at night second guessing it. I've never been eaten up with nagging guilt over it. I didn't look at babies and wonder "what if". I knew I did the best thing for me, and I'm so grateful I had the option to do it safely - because, honestly, if I hadn't had that choice, I would have looked into other more risky options. Now, 10 years later, I still think I made the right choice and I would make the same choice again.

In the span of the last 10 years, I've had one abortion, one miscarriage, and one baby born very prematurely. The way I handled each of those events, and the way I feel about them looking back, is shaped by the totally unique situations surrounding them They were three very different and separate events that came at three totally different times in my life. The way I felt about my body and my choices/decisions after each was totally independent of the others.

Anyway, I'm sorry this is so long. I just felt I had to jump in. I'm not a cold, callous, or awful person. Anyone who knows me will testify to that. However, I don't feel guily about the abortion that I had. So, I just wanted to point out that, yes, there are people who choose abortion and manage to go on without being weighed down by guilt or agony - but that doesn't mean they're monsters. They're probably women just like me, who know they made the right choice for their lives and their bodies - women you work with, women who live next door, women you sit with at your kid's soccer games, women in your family.

Everyone's experiences with pregnancy in general, and with abortion, are so totally different and unique. Everyone brings their own beliefs, background, etc. to the situation. You can't compare how one woman handles things to how someone else might handle things. There are just too many variables. You can't say, "This is what I did, so this is what you should do, too." or "This is what I would do, so this is what you should do." What's the point? You're not me and I'm not you.

Now, I've got to hit submit before I change my mind.
 

Gem, I absolutely agree that there are many women who have abortions and never look back. Having no regrets does not equate to "having no qualms", imo.
 
snoopy said:
Gem, I absolutely agree that there are many women who have abortions and never look back. Having no regrets does not equate to "having no qualms", imo.

Thanks. That's what I was getting at. :)

And, just to keep this somewhat on topic . . .

Babar, you're a great friend. The world could use more people like you. :flower:
 
:hug: Babar, you are a wonderful person! Your friend is very, very lucky to have someone like you!

Yes, those protesting people are not the nicest in the world. I'm sure that they believe they are doing the right thing. I don't really believe that Jesus would want them to make others feel worse than they already do but to each his/her own, I guess.... :confused3
 
I'm exhausted reading this thread. I just find it so interesting how all us dissers have such differing views. Wouldn't this be an interesting conversation in the middle of MK. You know we can't really know what we would do unless we walked in someone else's shoes. I'm sure many of us with such polar opposite opinions have passed by each other on the way to a PS or catch the bus back to our resort. We are allowed in this country to have different opinions and the issue of abortion will never really be settled, but let's debate not attack.
 
chobie said:
To say that Jesus would let a woman die for a fetus would be a stretch. Jesus showed the up most respect to women. Remember when the men wanted to stone the woman who had committed adultery? These do not seem like the actions of one who put a fetuses life above the life of the mother.

Really all this WWJD stuff is getting down right silly IMO.

I am not saying that this is a WWJD situation. I was just pointing out that he didn't follow the Jewish laws.
 
MrsKreamer said:
I am not saying that this is a WWJD situation. I was just pointing out that he didn't follow the Jewish laws.

I know he heale don the Sabbath,which is OK in many cases,but I don't remember what other *work* he did
 
JennyMominRI said:
I know he heale don the Sabbath,which is OK in many cases,but I don't remember what other *work* he did

He helped someone harvest. They considered his healing on the sabbath work.
 
MrsKreamer said:
He helped someone harvest. They considered his healing on the sabbath work.
The harvest thing is a nono..Healing on the Sabbath is OK if someones life is at risk,in fact most all Jewish laws are to be suspended if a life is at risk
 
disney4us2002 said:
Just curious Jenny when you have surgery, will you also have a tubal or hysterectomy? Someone with your obviously serious health conditions would be better off not having an accidental pg. I'm rather surprised that a tubal wasn't done with your last pg since you said that was when you were diagnosed with AIDS. Good luck to you.

Ok folks. Disney4us has just posted what I wanted to say. Thank you.

Like I've mentioned, I am a paraplegic. I am perfectly capable of having children. But with pregnancy there is always a risk. I did not want to take them. My hubby and I weren't sexually active before we got married. We talked about it and decided he would get a vasectomy before we got married. I didn't want to have kids and he agreed 100%. So before we even got married, we took care of the problem. I was already on the Pill for period reasons and have stayed on them.

My point is we took care of this problem at the beginning. Like Disney4us, I am wondering why on earth you didn't have a tubal when you were first diagnosed? Then this whole situation could be avoided. I am just quite disturbed that your unborn child is going to have to pay.

My opinions are simply that- opinions. No one has to agree with them or even like them. But not getting a tubal seems very irresponsible to me. Because of your not doing this, an unborn child (it is a child, not a mass of cells, in my opinion) is going to be killed. It just makes me very sad.

ETA: Yes, HIV+ women have had and do have healthy babies. But there is more than just AIDS to consider here. Your heart problem, etc. If it were me, and this is just my opinion, if I didn't have a spinal cord injury and I was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, and a pregnancy would likely kill me, I would be having a tubal ASAP and having ZERO sex until my tubes were tied. But that's just me.
 
IMGONNABE40! said:
Wow. Where to begin. Abortion is wrong. I will pray for all of those who think otherwise. There are more of you on the fence then you think. Why else would you all say " I would never have an abortion but..." You would never have an abortion because you know in your heart of hearts that to do so is morally wrong and against God's law. C'mon, all of you who profess to have some ties to a Christian religion--can you really envision Christ performing an abortion? If not, guess what? It is morally wrong.

What if I were to say that I drove the get-away car for a bank robber. Would it be okay because I did not rob the bank myself? Of course not. I know robbing banks is wrong. But of course it is not as wrong as abortion because nobody dies!

Abortion is a great scourge on America. We mislead people into believing that killing is okay because it is condoned by our government. I reiterate. What would Jesus do? Would he perform an abortion? If your answer to that question is no, then you must not truly believe in the sanctity of abortion. It is just some propoganda that you are being sold. Buy it at your peril. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.

Why don't you save your prayers for those who truely need it. As someone who is solidly pro-choice I don't need anyone praying for me because of my beliefs or helping me find peace with any decision I make on the topic. However, there are plently of people in this world that do need your prayers for a host of reasons.
 
LindsayDunn228 said:
My point is we took care of this problem at the beginning. Like Disney4us, I am wondering why on earth you didn't have a tubal when you were first diagnosed? .


Hi Lindsay,
I answered this ther posts but I'll copy them

It's not automatic to give a woman with AIDS a tubal..Women with AIDS have healthy babies all the time.. Once the Cardiomyopathy developed pregnancy became a much bigger risk. I chose not to have a tubal...There were risks associated with the surgery.. NO I won't have one now.. Ed will have the Vasectomy that he has had planned for months now.
At some point I probably will have a Hysterectomy as I have had cervical dysplaysia for years now..It's a catch 22..Women with AIDS are very high risk for Cervical cancer,on the other hand a major surgery like a hysterectomy is a risk

Your so right ,it certainly is my responsibility..I had to make tough choices once I got the cardiomyopathy.. A tubal was considered.. It's a surgery ,involving anesthesia and is a risk. A higher rate of complications in Patients with advanced HIV disease was a risk....I've always used 2 forms of BC (even the hormonal BC's are a risk ).
I had to think about which was more likely,complications from a tubal,or what we thought was a very slight pregnany risk.
Obviously,I came out on the wrong end of things
I made the best choices I could at the time.
It's very likely that one or mor eof my meds may have interefered with the ability of the BCP's to work..There are so many unknowns with the meds that no one really knows
 
CEDmom said:
Why don't you save your prayers for those who truely need it. As someone who is solidly pro-choice I don't need anyone praying for me because of my beliefs or helping me find peace with any decision I make on the topic. However, there are plently of people in this world that do need your prayers for a host of reasons.

For starters, she should start praying for those unwanted babies she champions. But then again, people who piously state that they are concerned for the Unborn rarely, in my vast experience, focus a lot of attention on the Already Born.
 
Just wanted to commend Jenny for maintaining a very respectful attitude while answering questions, especially those that have suggested that she is less than moral and less than responsible. Not sure I would keep such a cool head.

It says alot about your character Jenny, I admire that.
 
LindsayDunn228 said:
Jenny, I added a tag to mine.
LOL,I added to mine too.. Probably after you read it...The tubal vs BCP issue was discussed by my doctors and I.. The consensus,including mine was that the low risk of a pregnancy was better than the moderate risks of a Tubal..Obviously in hindsight the wrong choice was made..For the record,I had the HIV for more than 10 years before the Cardiomyopathy developed
 
JennyMominRI said:
The harvest thing is a nono..Healing on the Sabbath is OK if someones life is at risk,in fact most all Jewish laws are to be suspended if a life is at risk

He was giving a blind man sight. The man's life was not in danger. I was just trying to clarify that even if Jesus was raised Jewish, he didn't always follow those laws.
 












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