Hate to do this, but have a topic about abortion...

chadfromdallas said:
What do you mean? Plenty needs to be added, including time and the right conditions :confused3 An embryo is far from being complete.


Well thats just too simplistic. If that is what you base that "facts" on, none of us are complete humans until the specific moment that we have completely grown into adulthood, but right before we start to decline. I am sorry, but at no stage of our develop are we anything less than human.

What are they teaching in schools these days? :confused3
 
IMGONNABE40! said:
BTW I am sure those souls you referred to now realize that God is pretty pissed about the abortion thing here in the US of A. Much like Jacob Marley came back to warn Scrooge...

Man, He must be just livid with China, huh?
 
Ok, this issue is an emotional one for me. I have had an abortion. I was 16 and stupid. I knew better, but I did a stupid thing. I'll try to make a long story short.
Ok 4 weeks later, I take a pregnancy test. positive. I don't remember all the details of what happened. I remember telling my parents, and him sitting on the couch trying to hide. Later, he tells me to have an abortion, and then tells me he will kill me if I don't. Yes, I had no idea he was like that. I knew him for a year, and yet this was more than I could handle. He went psycho on me. This person I cared about, turned into something I was terrified of.
He stalked me. This was before the anti stalking laws. My parents talked to the police, but they said they couldn't do anything until he did something. Hmmm, alright, the police can't do anything until after he commits the crime. I was terrifed. My parents didn't have anywhere for me to go.
My mom suggested an abortion and at first I said no. But the more I thought about it, the more he did things to scare me and my family, the more I thought I had no other option. I cried, and I don't think I ever stopped crying about it. Even still.

I regret it with everything in me. Would I change what I did?, if anything at all was different, I wouldn't have done it. But at the time, I felt I had no other choice.
I told him I miscarried it. I felt a little defiant with that. I made him so bored with me that he broke up with me. He stopped stalking me, he stopped threatening me. He stopped being interested in me all together. I was lucky.

Now, every church I've talked to tells me I'm going to hell no matter what I do now. I stopped talking to them a long time ago. I live my life and whatever happens, happens.

I adamantly believe in pro-choice and in not judging others.
 
jenfur said:
What are they teaching in schools these days? :confused3

Facts. Were they teaching something else during your time? :confused3

I am sorry, but at no stage of our develop are we anything less than human.

It is not too simplistic, but your beliefs are blocking you from understanding this. At the embryonic stage, we are less than human. We are an embryo OF a human, but we are not human.
 

Oh Laurie, :hug:

I wish you lived here. Our church would never ever tell you that you are going to hell.

We believe that once you accept Jesus into your heart and your life and you are saved that EVERYTHING you have done in the past is ERASED. Remember the theif on the cross. You start a new life, a CHRISTIAN life, and you are FORGIVEN for everything you have done that doesn't agree with God's laws. God doesn't expect us to be perfect. In fact HE knows we are all FAR from perfect thats why HE died for OUR sins. Through Christ we are all UNCONDEMNABLE!

Sorry I'm preaching, I'm really not meaning too, but any church that will tell you that you are going to hell for that is just WRONG. Once you have asked God's forgivness you are FORGIVEN, PERIOD!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact I know of three women, very active in our church who had abortions, like you when they were very young. They will give their testimony ANYTIME they are asked because there are people out there who sincerely believe that they won't go to Heaven because of the bad things they did before being saved. That just isn't so.

Oh heck I'm preaching again. You know how much I love you. Email me if you want to talk about ANYTHING. If I had your email I would email you. Not to preach....LOL! Just to talk. You are so NOT going to hell if you love and believe in Jesus. Okay enough......Love you Laurie!!!! :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
 
Beauty said:
Oh Laurie, :hug:

I wish you lived here. Our church would never ever tell you that you are going to hell.

We believe that once you accept Jesus into your heart and your life and you are saved that EVERYTHING you have done in the past is ERASED. Remember the theif on the cross. You start a new life, a CHRISTIAN life, and you are FORGIVEN for everything you have done that doesn't agree with God's laws. God doesn't expect us to be perfect. In fact HE knows we are all FAR from perfect thats why HE died for OUR sins. Through Christ we are all UNCONDEMNABLE!

Sorry I'm preaching, I'm really not meaning too, but any church that will tell you that you are going to hell for that is just WRONG. Once you have asked God's forgivness you are FORGIVEN, PERIOD!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact I know of three women, very active in our church who had abortions, like you when they were very young. They will give their testimony ANYTIME they are asked because there are people out there who sincerely believe that they won't go to Heaven because of the bad things they did before being saved. That just isn't so.

Oh heck I'm preaching again. You know how much I love you. Email me if you want to talk about ANYTHING. If I had your email I would email you. Not to preach....LOL! Just to talk. You are so NOT going to hell if you love and believe in Jesus. Okay enough......Love you Laurie!!!! :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

I was trying to compose a response to Laurie and couldn't think of what to say. Beauty said it perfectly. God forgives us for everything. Please don't let these self-righteous people turn you away from him.
 
thank you ellie and Beth. But I haven't turned from him, just churches.

Now I'm wishing I hadn't posted that.
 
Hugs Laurie,

Noone can understand where you have been without being in your shoes. I am sorry you went through that, it must have been very tough.

No matter what our beliefs, I think the most important thing is compassion. I think we would all like for abortion to be obsolete, unfortunately there are still situations where women and girls feel totally lost, afraid and alone. Is it too much to ask that we be compassionate and not judgemental when they make one of the most difficult decisions of their lives?

I guess I just feel that no matter what someone chooses for themselves in such difficult circumstances, I cannot be judge and jury.

I urge those who feel strongly about this issue, especially those who are prolife but no matter which 'side' you are on, to be actively involved in prevention of unplanned pregnancies.

One way we could all make a positive impact, IMHO, is not to look at a pregnant teen with disgust. Go out of your way to be a friend so that she doesn't feel ostracized and alone. Be an example and a mentor so that she does not end up just another statistic (poor and undereducated).
 
Serena said:
thank you ellie and Beth. But I haven't turned from him, just churches.

Now I'm wishing I hadn't posted that.

I understand completely. I truly believe that you don't have to be part of a church to be right with God. I just hate that you've had churches tell you you're a bad person because of decisions you've made. They are supposed to be compassionate and loving.
For you as well as any woman whose had an abortion, you don't ever have to answer to anyone. What's in your heart is between you and God. And what you do with your body is your decision. :goodvibes
 
My gigantic mistake was thinking I was more mature than I was. And then being immature about it. If I had said no, if I had used protection, none of that heartbreak would have happened.
Well some of it. I believe his problems would have shown themselves sooner or later.

But I've been a little overboard with my children about being smart and adult about sex.
A two minute experience can change a life.
 
Laurie, I really feel like I know your experience. Sometimes what is threatening the potential mothers life isn't always the potential child. Desperate times can call for desperate measures. I had pretty much already cast aside most forms of Christianity because they all basically told me that my mother and my sister, who lead positive and mostly (hey, free will, I don't know everything they do!)moral lives, but hold the religion of Judiasm and humanistic Judiasm, will burn in hell. I cannot and willnot turn my backs on them. Most who hold the opine that abortion is EVIL, seem to worship something more akin to the old testament books of the bible, though they claim otherwise. They're the ones who've made me stop on the street and walk women, who are obviously being harrassed into a PP clinic, for wahtever reason they're there. They've made me stop on the street and diretly ask them if the photos/signs they're weilding are photos of medical abortions or spontaneous abortions? (Yes, sometimes they have used photos of miscarriages as propoganda.) Yes, I've told them my story....the 4 doctors I've had afterwards have already told me, most likely that pregnancy would have ended in a miscarriage, considering how my other 2 pregnancies were. My body was telling me, NO. When I was there...scared, barely GOT a job, throing up everywhere....My mom helped me. She didn't hold my hand, but she made the appt, drove me there and picked me up. She also let me convuluse with her. We've talked about it last year too. She doesn't regret it either.

Anyone who's pro-life or anti abortion....if you haven't, please see Cider House Rules.

If you don't like our abortion laws, please think long and hard about the alternative. It's illegal here. Anyone with money can go to another country and get one. Those without means are reduced to a choice of an overpriced butcher or possibly dangerous herbs, a sharp self inflicted object or something we've never pondered. Women being admitted to emergency rooms and/or dying from infection, because you want the sin wiped out. Look to Prohibition. Alcohol was illegal, but people still drank. Most drugs in this country are illegal, yet people still use them. Please don't push for our daughters and grandaughters to sterilze, poison, kill themselves or even injure themselves because they didn't have the money to fly to another country. You don't have to like it, but please, turn the other cheek, love the sinner and hate the sin. Judge not, lest ye be judged thine self.

Weird, I wanted to accept Christ's love, but most of what was offered me was so loaded with judgement and lines in the sand, I couldn't do it. I felt so at peace and what I hope was the holy spririt was moving all the little hairs on my neck, but I could never accet condemming those of another faith or belief system or choices anyone made. To me it contradicted everything I felt. The Lord is where you admit your downfalls, your mistakes, humble yourself and bask in his glory.Never ever are you better than the butcher, the fireman, the babysitter, the fast food worker. What you should do is lead by example. Be the best person YOU can be. Show them the way by how you are, not by telling them how to be, what to do, what to think, what to believe. Live as a Christian, and you won't need to talk like one.

Wow, I'm wordy.
 
Rowena said:
If you don't like our abortion laws, please think long and hard about the alternative. It's illegal here. Anyone with money can go to another country and get one. Those without means are reduced to a choice of an overpriced butcher or possibly dangerous herbs, a sharp self inflicted object or something we've never pondered. Women being admitted to emergency rooms and/or dying from infection, because you want the sin wiped out.

Exactly. I once asked my BIL who is VERY vocally anti abortion (he's the type that gets really upset when you don't agree with him on the issue) what he would do if his daughter was raped and God forbid, didn't tell in time to go to the hospital to prevent pregnancy. He said in THAT case he'd get her an abortion. I said if they were illegal he couldn't do that. He said he'd take her to another country. Well what about people who can't afford that? I agree that it should not be used as as much as it is, but if you take it away from the people who abuse it, you take it away from everyone and where would that leave the people who truly need that option.
 
elliemae1192 , thank you. For your arguement in RL and chiming in here. Thank you. Raise your voice for those who can't, don't know they might need to, and those who might ever see the need to. I don't advocate abortion, but keeping it legal is more moral to me than abolishing it. Pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion.....but it is keeping it a legal option. Idealism or not, the reprecussions in this debate are more horrifying than idea of abolition. Find a way to make them unnesessary, don't make them against the law.
 
I just have to add my 2 cents (if they are even that) but I hang in the gray area on this topic I think that unless there is a valid reason (be that rape or mother in danger) than its not a good "solution" to the problem. But I also know that making it illigial will not stop the amount performed it will just make it all under the table and that much more dangerous and harmful.

I do think it needs to be there for times when it really isnt the best solution. For instance I was unknowlingly raped when I was 14 by a cousin, (I was sediated for PTSD after a auto accident) and I found out I was pregnant with triplets when I was almost 5 months along- I can't honesty say that had I found out earlier would I have had an abortion? Probably but I can't say either way.

I was also scheduled to have an abortion in 2000 after I got pregnant while on Chemo and a whole lot of other drugs for Osteo Sarcoma and a few other problems insued that it was down to me or it and there was no sure winner either way. It was one of the hardest decisions I ever had to make but in the end what I had (My 2 kids) needed to win over anything else. 3 days before I was scheduled I miscarried but I echo until you've been there staring at the rock and the hardplace medically it just is fluff.

-em
 
chadfromdallas said:
It doesn't matter. You are not killing a child when you have an abortion. You are getting rid of a mass of cells/fetus.

I so completely agree.
 
Serena said:
How about this. Abortion prevents a life from developing in the womb. So does birth control, all forms.
So what's next? So does sterilization. So does not having sex every chance we women get because we have eggs needing to be fertilized every single month. There's a half a life ready and willing to be fertilized, and should we be permitted to decide if that egg should be fertilized? Should someone else get to decide for us if we want that egg fertilized?

Should someone other than the person directly responsible be in charge of whether or not we are ready, able and capable of having and taking care of a baby. No, and gratefully the legal system agrees.

I so completely agree.
 
Immelman said:
whatever. every species in nature kills or ignores the weak and or lame in it's own litter. it's called survival of the fittest, and you own your very existence to it. we've figured out how to make it surgery. don't drag your 'god' into it. ::MickeyMo

Wow. *nods8
 
JennyMominRI said:
You know I didn't want a whole lot out of life..I wanted a husband .I wanted kids..Luckily I have beautiful kids,but I would have loved to have more.
Now here I am in this position..Nothing is ever simple for me. Nothing is ever allowed to happen in my life without a dark cloud over it.. I'm just tired

Jenny, you are an extremely courageous woman. Your strength is amazing. I wish you peace. When things are difficult, try to turn your thoughts to the happy times of your life. I'm sure you've experienced much joy. Keep that in your heart when things seem darkest.
 
I couldn't blame Lindsay if she chose not to come back and post her feelings. Seems there's a few quite ready to pounce on her for what she might say. As for me, it disturbs and depresses me a great deal as well to hear anyone say they are going to have an abortion.

I believe life begins at conception....HUMAN life. An embryo is completely human....not completely formed yet (although essentially completely formed by 8 weeks or so).

Just as someone would be sickened by the death/killing of a 2 month old/3 year old/whatever, the death/killing of an unborn child affects me in the same manner. This does not make me some militant psycho who wants women's rights smashed down and brought back to the dark ages.

For those of you who keep saying "Stop trying to shove your beliefs down my thought"....etc. etc..........If I feel that abortion is akin to murder, then why on earth SHOULD I stop trying to prevent it??? Why would I NOT try to let people know there are alternatives? Why would I NOT try to let women know what abortion really is?

If you sttod by watching someone being beaten on the side of the road and did nothing to stop it, I would not be real impressed with your lack of action. IMO, my sitting back and doing nothing in regards to abortion would be the same thing.
 












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