Hate to do this, but have a topic about abortion...

[Tantor]

Years ago hubby and I were put in a situation to make a desision on a pregnancy. We did and I was amazed on how supportive our friends were (religious and non religious)
It's great to have people who don't judge you and just are there to give you a
poohandwendy, your comment 'unless you are in the situation, maybe you can never understand' is so true.

 

[goofygirl]

2 of my close friends each had an abortion. Their boyfriends were not there to see them through the abortions, but I was. It pays to have good girlfriends in your life.

I'd be there for them again, and they'd be there for me.

 

[frozone]

Trying to respond respectfully.....

It was kind of you to do what you did--but something I will never understand. How one can be so morally opposed to something (or be so convicted in their belief) and yet offer a loving hand to someone who chooses to do something that is quite contrary to your beliefs. Given the topic I couldn't do it myself--doesn't make me better than you or you better than me. Just means that I can't do it and I cannot grasp the idea of why you are able.

Trying to respond in an equally respectful way.....

The difference you outline is the difference between compassion and self-righteous, between thinking of oneself and have compassion for another soul, despite different moral positions. I think a lot of people call it hating the sin and loving the sinner.

Babar- bless you for your kind action. You remind me of my mother.

 

[CarolA]

Several years ago I was doing work at a hospital in Witcha Kansas.

Our hotel was on the same street as the Women's Clinic and the team was all female.

EVERY time we turned into the street people RUSHED the car attempting to stop us shoving photos in our faces and screaming HORRIBLE things. These same people have big signs clamiing they were doing God's work. And that work was harrassment of women who were trying to go to a hotel???? It was so bad that we would turn the conor at full speed. We were beginning to hope we would hit one of them. And the worst part was, not one of these people lived in in the city. They admitted on the news that they only protested in cities where they didn't live.

These same protesters also harrassed women who were staying in our hotel in thier final weeks of pregnacy. These womeo were usually expecting mutliple births and from rural areas. They needed to be near the neo-natal unit and had come to this city to have thier babies. And they were referred to as "baby killers" They would come in the hotel just sobbing in fear.

I learned a special dislike for those protesters that week. (Luckily a judge did force them to back off somewhat or one of them probably would have been killed by a car!)

 

[babar]

Trying to respond respectfully.....

It was kind of you to do what you did--but something I will never understand. How one can be so morally opposed to something (or be so convicted in their belief) and yet offer a loving hand to someone who chooses to do something that is quite contrary to your beliefs. Given the topic I couldn't do it myself--doesn't make me better than you or you better than me. Just means that I can't do it and I cannot grasp the idea of why you are able.

We all have a right to protest. And peaceful silent protest is best--have your signs or whatever...but yelling at anybody and getting in their face or touching them is unacceptable in any format. You won't win anyone over with such brutal tactics and I'm sorry that you guys had to endure that kind of behavior. Anyone who behaves that way gives freedom of speech a bad name. I may have my strong beliefs--but you won't catch me outside of an abortion clinic for these very examples that you guys have provided.

I offered my hand to her despite what I believe because of just that. It's what I believe, not her, and I don't think less of her for it.

Frozone said it really well.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I can not imagine having a better friend than one who would see you through an abortion even though it was against her beliefs!

A close friend of mine recently became pregnant. She is VERY unhappy about it. I told her I would be happy for her if she wanted me to. I also told her if she wanted to abort I would drive her to the clinic. I am SO thankful we live in a city that HAS clinics!!!

DH and I planned very carefully to have our DS. Now we take precautions not to have more kids. We only wanted ONE child. If by some freak accident I became pregnant again I would abort. I wouldn't even consider having another baby.

My sister called last night to tell me she is pregnant. Not married, in tons of debt, has only known her boyfriend for about 6 months. She is terribly irresponsible. Her only plan so far is that they will "figure out" how to pay for this baby and "it could be worse". Great. They don't even have a phone in their apartment! She has a decent job, but the boyfriend doesn't. I have no clue what they will do for child care. She says the boyfriend will get a second job to supplement the income from his first (dead end) job. Hmm. That will pretty much mean he will NEVER be home. That doesn't sound like the way to build a strong relationship. I have yet to hear how a couple who hardly know each other and have a baby end up happily married. DH has friends who married their pregnant girlfriends and NONE of those marriages lasted. The divorce rate is over 50% in general!!! Throw in the responsibilities of parenting on top of being young, irresponsible, and not knowing each other very well and see where it leads.

I am furious that she thinks this is GOOD news. This is precisely the sort of situation where abortion is appropriate. My mother says the boyfriend's family is supposedly thrilled. Well, I hope so! They will be the ones footing the bills and taking care of the baby! It irritates me that my sister thinks this will in some way make her a grown up! In my opinion grown ups get married and take some time to get to know each other FIRST. Then they make sure they have basic necessities (like a PHONE). Of course the problem with having a phone is the bill collectors would be calling. She has NO business having a baby, but that is exactly what she is going to do.

I am thrilled to live in a country where safe, legal abortions are available. I wish my sister would recognize what a valuable resource it is!

 

[Pooh Girl 71]

babar, you are a really good friend.

 

[CarolA]

You never can tell.. I had one friend who had the world's worst marriage. The month before she got pregnant she moved in with me. She went back (don't they always?) and somehow they seem much better now. (Persoanlly I think the marraige will collapse the day the baby goes away to college, but until then!)

 

[Hagred]

So many thoughts, so little time. Babar - hugs to you. You demonstrate what I'm about to speak of, and that is love.

It was kind of you to do what you did--but something I will never understand. How one can be so morally opposed to something (or be so convicted in their belief) and yet offer a loving hand to someone who chooses to do something that is quite contrary to your beliefs. Given the topic I couldn't do it myself--doesn't make me better than you or you better than me. Just means that I can't do it and I cannot grasp the idea of why you are able.

It is because we love someone that we can help them when we don't agree with what they may be doing. The choice is always this: Which do I love more? My belief in my morals or my friend? There's no right or wrong answer - some of us choose to love our friends and still keep our love for our beliefs strong. That's how people can be so morally opposed to something and yet offer a loving hand. Simple, unadulterated, unconditional love. Something I believe Jesus preached about.

Another thought if you will indulge me. Killing people. Even "killing" fetuses.

Most people would say, "I would NEVER murder someone". I believe this to be an untrue statement. I think most, if not all, human beings are capable of murder. They simply put better words for it out there: self-defense, defense of your children, etc, etc, etc. But it's still stopping a life no matter HOW much you want to justify how that life was stopped.

Ask the Amish - people who would rather be killed themselves than commit murder or participate in anything that would stop a life. They'll tell you there's no such thing as self-defense when it comes to killing.

Just as you think "There's no way I would kill a baby - life begins as conception. These people are rationalizing it so they feel better", I say the same unto you: "If you're killing someone who's about to kill you or your children/family/spouse, then you're rationalizing taking that person's life so you will feel better about it".

Babar - lots and lots of hugs to you. It's good to know there are people out there who will love someone else unconditionally.

 

[Lanshark]

It sounds to me as if Babar stepped out of her comfort zone to support someone who needed compassion. I pray we all have at least one friend/relative that would think enough of us to help us even when they don't agree with us.

She is not condoning abortion by her unwillingness to condemn it. I feel the same way.

 

[LoraJ]

While I am pro-choice, I would never have an abortion.

Last year I went to the March for Women's Lives in D.C.. Along our march route, the protestors with their pictures calling me a baby killer and a ***** were in full force. Even a group of priests were calling me us baby killers to which I shouted back that they were child molesters.

You are a very good friend Babar.

 

[Pam]

Babar, you're a good and true friend and did a good and loving thing for your friend.



Now, about "those" people - wouldn't you like to know how many children they've each adopted? That's always what I've wondered.

I asked my cousin and his wife that very question several years ago --- they were avid ProLife protestors and had no children at the time. They marched and waved their signs. I asked them how many children they were going to adopt and save??? Their answer, "We're not ready for children yet - but when we are, we want our "own". .... Flashforward - they now have 3 children - all their "own."

I am ProChoice.
Babar and P&W - you two are very compassionate and good friends.

 

[chobie]

I asked my cousin and his wife that very question several years ago --- they were avid ProLife protestors and had no children at the time. They marched and waved their signs. I asked them how many children they were going to adopt and save??? Their answer, "We're not ready for children yet - but when we are, we want our "own". .... Flashforward - they now have 3 children - all their "own."

I am ProChoice.
Babar and P&W - you two are very compassionate and good friends.

Good post. And before anyone chimes in about the thousands of people who are dying to adopt babies, let me point out that their are also thousands of non-infant foster children who love to have a home of their own.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Trying to respond respectfully.....

It was kind of you to do what you did--but something I will never understand. How one can be so morally opposed to something (or be so convicted in their belief) and yet offer a loving hand to someone who chooses to do something that is quite contrary to your beliefs. Given the topic I couldn't do it myself--doesn't make me better than you or you better than me. Just means that I can't do it and I cannot grasp the idea of why you are able.

Trying to respond in an equally respectful way.....

The difference you outline is the difference between compassion and self-righteous, between thinking of oneself and have compassion for another soul, despite different moral positions. I think a lot of people call it hating the sin and loving the sinner.

Babar- bless you for your kind action. You remind me of my mother.

Thank you for responding in kind.

I don't think of it as self righteous. Again--I don't think I'm better than anybody else. Failing to understand Babar does not mean that she has compassion and I am self righteous. To some--that baby is another soul as well. I did have a friend who knew a young woman very recently (how young, I don't know)---and were so adamant that they felt she should not have an abortion that they did offer to adopt her baby. I do not know the outcome of that story, but I this thread reminds me I should check on it. Instead of being self righteous about it--the couple was very much thinking with compassion.

One can respond compassionately to a situation regardless of belief system. Some would respond one way, some would respond another. To my knowledge, I don't know anyone who would confide in me in such a position as I hang around married women and young children. But had I had a young woman in my life facing such a situation--I would probably look into making the offer that my friend did.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Several years ago I was doing work at a hospital in Witcha Kansas.

Our hotel was on the same street as the Women's Clinic and the team was all female.

EVERY time we turned into the street people RUSHED the car attempting to stop us shoving photos in our faces and screaming HORRIBLE things. These same people have big signs clamiing they were doing God's work. And that work was harrassment of women who were trying to go to a hotel???? It was so bad that we would turn the conor at full speed. We were beginning to hope we would hit one of them. And the worst part was, not one of these people lived in in the city. They admitted on the news that they only protested in cities where they didn't live.

These same protesters also harrassed women who were staying in our hotel in thier final weeks of pregnacy. These womeo were usually expecting mutliple births and from rural areas. They needed to be near the neo-natal unit and had come to this city to have thier babies. And they were referred to as "baby killers" They would come in the hotel just sobbing in fear.

I learned a special dislike for those protesters that week. (Luckily a judge did force them to back off somewhat or one of them probably would have been killed by a car!)

Horrible!!! Just horrible!!! No need for anyone to do this. Perhaps if protestors spent more time doing good deeds for women facing these choices--then maybe the women would have an inkling to change their minds. But all they are doing is putting lives at risk with their antics. An oxymoron to their cause.

 

[2BOYMOM]

Babar, I agree with you 100% and I'm glad you could be there with your friend.

It is not my place to judge anyone for their actions even though I may not agree with them.






Kim

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I offered my hand to her despite what I believe because of just that. It's what I believe, not her, and I don't think less of her for it.

Frozone said it really well.

I don't think of you any less for your kind hand. I would personally have a problem offering the same hand. I walked into a clinic once (to do an interview for class) and I never intend to walk into one again. I didn't like it one bit. Thankfully there were no women their at the time with an appointment--not sure if that was by design...but I am sure it would have sparked some emotion in me knowing why they were there and how it was the only way for them. Our beliefs don't make us heartless or self righteous--it is how we conduct ourselves when sharing them. This is why I would NEVER protest at a clinic. Typically they give pro-lifers a bad name. Getting in your face and scaring someone and making them fear for their life just doesn't sound like the appropriate or safe way to get the message across.

We do have one peaceful protest that they do in our town--it is done by the mall one time a year and nowhere near a clinic---keeping everyone involved safe while sharing a peaceful message. One year I might participate. But due to circumstance haven't yet.

 

[marlouwrig]

Originally Posted by Lisa loves Pooh
Trying to respond respectfully.....

It was kind of you to do what you did--but something I will never understand. How one can be so morally opposed to something (or be so convicted in their belief) and yet offer a loving hand to someone who chooses to do something that is quite contrary to your beliefs. Given the topic I couldn't do it myself--doesn't make me better than you or you better than me. Just means that I can't do it and I cannot grasp the idea of why you are able.

Although I too believe that life begins at conception and therefore that abortion is totally wrong, I also believe in a God of love who whilst hating the sin still loves the sinner.

It is not for me to judge women having to make what is without doubt one of the hardest decisions they will ever have to make in their life.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm so surprised to see so many open-minded people on this thread! It's refreshing.

LisalovesPooh, I can see what you're saying. I don't agree but I can understand the feelings you have. However, ultimately each person has to decide for themself what is right and wrong. You can try to influence but we're really kind of in this alone when it comes to decisions such as these.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I really hesitate to post this as it is so painful for me right now.. I am 9 weeks pregnant and I'm having an abortion..It was supposed to be tomorrow. I have AIDS,Cardiomyopathy.History of Mini-strokes and CHF.. I take BCP'S and use condoms..This was not planned..This in fact was a horribly dreaded scenario for me..One that I have had nightmares about for years..The kicker.. My SO is set up to have a Vasectomy in late March..We had been planning this vasectomy for a few months now
I simply can't carry a pregnancy.period.. I risk sudden caridac arrest ,stroke etc..Not to mention the fact that I take various teterogenic drugs that would make it likely no child would survive a pregnancy anyway.
I've known for over a month now..I've tried everything,but as sick as I am i have to have this done in a very controlled setting. I have medicare and Tricare insurances..Neither one will pay for it,even thought they have had 3 doctors telling them that my life is at risk.. Because of my high risk position and all of the precautions they have to take with me this will cost thousands of dollars out of my own pocket.. It's looking like 3000-4000$ minimum that must be paid within 6 months.. My Disney trip is not looking likely at all now.
This has been Hell..In 14 years of living with AIDS nothing compares to what I'm going through right now..I've been put through the ringer with doctors,insurance etc.. I've been told I can't have on unless I pay up front and then they say I can make payments and then they change their minds again.
I can't stop crying...I think I've cried more in the last month than I have in the last 14 years. It sure the heck isn't easy and it's not something that's done lightly.I know it's something that will haunt me for the rest of my life