Both a good friend of mine and I have DS who are struggling in the Public school system. We have both had our kids tested priately/ & thru school system showing no LD's. Both kids are miserable, innattentive and just plain hate school. Both are burnt out. In our case DS is young. August b-day....friends son is May. She called me yesterday at her wits end saying her DS will never make it thru 4th grade...but school is completely against retaining him. I have thought about it for our son as his maturity level is still developing, but his test scores were very high and there are some concerns about him being more bored than now. Until he matures and focuses better tho, he won't be recommended for enrichment classes. School is against retaining our son as well. He sees a tutor, and she suggests switching to another school and retaining as his age is def. a negative....many people where I live held their kids back and the more common age for 3rd here is 9.5, some have turned 10 already. DS will onlt be 9 for 2 weeks entering 4th. DS wants to go to 4th because of friends, and both my friend and I don't want our kids to think we don't believe in each of their abilities...but if the school is fighting the retention what do you do? I have heard many people say that retaining is humiliating/scarring for kids and they are more prone to drop out, get into trouble etc. Back to my question...has anyone retained and regretted it/stand by their decision? Again, this is for kids who have already been in the system, not held back B4
Has anyone had their child retained in third grade or higher?
- Thread starter FINFAN
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As a former 5th grade teacher, I had several students that would have benefited from being retained. Their self-esteem was just as low if not lower because they had moved on year after year and they felt all the other students thought they were "dumb". I know that many educational resources say that it is bad for self-esteem to retain a student. But, when they struggle year after year after year, then that can;t be good.
I think you have a tough decision. If you choose to retain, it might be easier for him to be in a new school where no one knows him. But, that could also lead to new challenges.
Good Luck no matter what you decide.
I think you have a tough decision. If you choose to retain, it might be easier for him to be in a new school where no one knows him. But, that could also lead to new challenges.
Good Luck no matter what you decide.
I have a friend who kept her son back in either third or fourth grade- I can't remember which one right now. She switched him to a private school because the public school wouldn't retain him at that age. She did eventually switch him back to public, though. He's in high school now and doing very well. Instead of struggling at the bottom of the class, he's getting A's and B's. Retention is a very, very difficult decision. I teach first grade, which is a little easier grade to retain in, but that's also always very tough to decide. I'm constantly hoping I'm making the right decision when I suggest retention to a parent. Just like everything else, there are plusses and minusses to retention and you just have to weigh them both and decide which will be better for your son in the end. Good luck with whatever you decide!
Thank you for the responses. My friend can't get he DH to be very suppoertive, so she is REALLY at her wits end...my DH is definitely involved and offers to me the male point of view, which I truly need to hear. All of the teacher DS has had have been female and as much as we all try to understand boy/girl differences, it can be tough to do.
I think we are going to retain, DS is so young that he won't even feel older, just same age as peers. I have requested a school change and we will see what happens. When I spoke to DS current principal, she finally admitted to me that she held both of her boys back from starting KG. They are June/July b-days and she felt the curriculum was a bit intense for their age. THAT info may have been nice to have B4 I sent DS. I asked her how she could refuse DS being retained and she said tht it costs sbout $6000 for a student to repeat, and that there are no proven studies that the child actually benefits from it. But she held her boys back
interesting. It is SO very hard, but DH and I agree that if we were relocating/transfered DS would re-peat. A move would make it a bit more acceptable to him, but we will work with what we have for now. I am sur I will be posting looking for future support
But for now you all gave helped me, and I will do my best to help my friend and her son.
Pam
I think we are going to retain, DS is so young that he won't even feel older, just same age as peers. I have requested a school change and we will see what happens. When I spoke to DS current principal, she finally admitted to me that she held both of her boys back from starting KG. They are June/July b-days and she felt the curriculum was a bit intense for their age. THAT info may have been nice to have B4 I sent DS. I asked her how she could refuse DS being retained and she said tht it costs sbout $6000 for a student to repeat, and that there are no proven studies that the child actually benefits from it. But she held her boys back
interesting. It is SO very hard, but DH and I agree that if we were relocating/transfered DS would re-peat. A move would make it a bit more acceptable to him, but we will work with what we have for now. I am sur I will be posting looking for future support But for now you all gave helped me, and I will do my best to help my friend and her son.Pam
I think it is different when you hold a child back from starting Kindergarten at a very young age and having a child repeat a grade.
If my son had to redo all the material that he had learned the previous year, then he would probably "fail". He is very bright, and his teacher wants him in a gifted program. When he is bored with work that is too simple for him, then he gets sloppy with it and is miserable. He has to be constantly challenged, so that he does not become bored. His teacher lets him work ahead, beyond his classmates.
Since your son's test scores were very high, is there a chance that your son is simply bored with material that doesn't challenge him?
If my son had to redo all the material that he had learned the previous year, then he would probably "fail". He is very bright, and his teacher wants him in a gifted program. When he is bored with work that is too simple for him, then he gets sloppy with it and is miserable. He has to be constantly challenged, so that he does not become bored. His teacher lets him work ahead, beyond his classmates.
Since your son's test scores were very high, is there a chance that your son is simply bored with material that doesn't challenge him?
Dandave, Yes, he is always saying he's bored, but he also wishes school were more creative and fun. He resents that 6.5 hours of his day are being "wasted" there.(his words) He does not pay attention or finish some of his work so the school feels he is immature and can't grasp basics. To participate in Accelerated classes, the kids must prove their ability to handle daily responsibilities first. I can understand that, but You are right, he may need to be challenged to prove it to them. Vicious circle. I am hoping that if he can attend the other school different envirionment /teachers etc., we may have a fresh start for him. I have requested that the new school would do a placement test for him to have a better idea of where he's at. The principal of new school actually suggested a male teacher, which DH and I had actually discussed as an option but there are no male 3/4 gr. teachers at DS current school. I know the curriculum will be same as new school is in same district, I hope we are not disrupting DS too much
this is such a difficult decision. But when your child is coming home in tears 3/4 days of the week a change needs to be made. I have noticed how much tougher the requirements are for my sons class than when DD was in 3rd, four years ago. He is really worried about being the "dumb" kid at a new school tho. So much stress for an 8 year old. Too much.
this is such a difficult decision. But when your child is coming home in tears 3/4 days of the week a change needs to be made. I have noticed how much tougher the requirements are for my sons class than when DD was in 3rd, four years ago. He is really worried about being the "dumb" kid at a new school tho. So much stress for an 8 year old. Too much./
May I make a suggestion? It's just my opinion, and I hope you don't mind.
Since you're willing to have him repeat a grade if needed, you might want to try this. Even if you switch schools, let him advance to the next grade level. But.. Talk with the new school about the fact that he may not be being challenged enough. Perhaps you could request a challenging teacher who encourages creativity. A great teacher who will encourage your son to explore can make all the difference in the world.
He may also be holding back, if his friends in the class are goofing around and simply not as bright as your son, i.e. trying to fit in. Maybe getting him to a new school with new classmates will actually help him. If he then fails, well you were going to hold him back a year anyway. You will know for sure whether your son isn't mature enough, or whether he is just a bit brighter than his old teachers recognized.
Good luck with whatever you decide! You sound like a very caring mother, who only has her child's best interests at heart.
Since you're willing to have him repeat a grade if needed, you might want to try this. Even if you switch schools, let him advance to the next grade level. But.. Talk with the new school about the fact that he may not be being challenged enough. Perhaps you could request a challenging teacher who encourages creativity. A great teacher who will encourage your son to explore can make all the difference in the world.
He may also be holding back, if his friends in the class are goofing around and simply not as bright as your son, i.e. trying to fit in. Maybe getting him to a new school with new classmates will actually help him. If he then fails, well you were going to hold him back a year anyway. You will know for sure whether your son isn't mature enough, or whether he is just a bit brighter than his old teachers recognized.
Good luck with whatever you decide! You sound like a very caring mother, who only has her child's best interests at heart.
My son just turned 15 lst week and is finishing up 8th grade. We waited until he was 6 to start kindergarten and have never regretted the decision. There are lots of other kids in his grade whose parents chose the same route.
I have been told that, especially for children who started school at a young age (and not every child), the trouble spots are usually 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 8th grades.
Some parents had their child repeat a grade and are happy with the results. Can you have a meeting with the teacher, principal, you son, and your DH and yourself?
Just so that you don't think I'm completely talking out of my rear..
I'm speaking from my personal experience. I hated school. I always made all A's with an occasional B, but I was bored silly. I did my homework on the bus ride home. I was not challenged at all.
In the 3rd grade, they moved me up to the 4th grade class for reading. I made an A, but in the 4th grade I had to read from the same book. I talked to the teacher, but she didn't care that I had already read the material. My mother was not at all involved in any part of my education, and a 4th grader doesn't have a lot of pull.
I got to the 5th grade, still bored to tears. I had a great teacher, who insisted that the school give me an IQ test. I scored over 145. This teacher made sure that I was slotted for the gifted program the following year. The gifted program had always been available, but no one else had ever suggested it.The following year, they cut the program from the budget. So, I was out of luck yet again!
In middle/high I was in the few advanced classes that were available, but I absolutely hated school as a whole. I enjoyed English, because I could use my creativity to write. In the non-advanced classes, I was just going through the motions.
If my mother had cared as much as you obviously do, then I think I might have some fond memories of school. I don't even like to think about it.
I'm speaking from my personal experience. I hated school. I always made all A's with an occasional B, but I was bored silly. I did my homework on the bus ride home. I was not challenged at all.
In the 3rd grade, they moved me up to the 4th grade class for reading. I made an A, but in the 4th grade I had to read from the same book. I talked to the teacher, but she didn't care that I had already read the material. My mother was not at all involved in any part of my education, and a 4th grader doesn't have a lot of pull.
I got to the 5th grade, still bored to tears. I had a great teacher, who insisted that the school give me an IQ test. I scored over 145. This teacher made sure that I was slotted for the gifted program the following year. The gifted program had always been available, but no one else had ever suggested it.The following year, they cut the program from the budget. So, I was out of luck yet again!
In middle/high I was in the few advanced classes that were available, but I absolutely hated school as a whole. I enjoyed English, because I could use my creativity to write. In the non-advanced classes, I was just going through the motions.
If my mother had cared as much as you obviously do, then I think I might have some fond memories of school. I don't even like to think about it.
If I may give you a view point from experiance. I was held back in 3rd grade, They called me a daydreamer back then. I was bored to death with school. I always felt strange about it. Not sure why other than all of a sudden I had no friends in classes with me. But I was a shy child and found it very difficult to make friends at that age.
The only teacher I ever had that inspired me to really get interessted in school was a teacher I had one summer in summer school. She was a program challenge teacher normally but was teaching summer school for us reg. kid that yr. She was awesome. She got me excited about learning. To this day Science is one of most interesting things to me and it is because of her.
See if you can find an area or subject that your son is interested in and do a summer activity with it if possible (ie marine life=swim with the dophins, reading=find out if there is an autograph signing for his favorite author, space exploration=take him to Kennedy space center or enroll him for the space camp in AL or TX) Sometimes even local colleges have summer fun programs that are academic. Explain to him how one subject in school relates to another and how you need to learn all to be a successful adult. He may be too young for this but I did this with my DD who is 11 and it turned her around some when she was starting to burn out this yr. Explain to him that if you don't have a high school diploma that you can't get into college, if you don't go to college you are most likely going to make so much an hr (I used $8.) I had her add up how much she would make for a week , we deducted so much for tax , I told her an avg. apt. rental cost, electricity, water, phone, car, insureance and so on . Had her deduct it from her wages. she had nothing left , she was in the red. That was a wake up call, that I am sure I will have to use again to refresh her memory at some point. But she got back on course and so far this yr is As and Bs.
There is no easy answer for this just do what you think is best for your son .
The only teacher I ever had that inspired me to really get interessted in school was a teacher I had one summer in summer school. She was a program challenge teacher normally but was teaching summer school for us reg. kid that yr. She was awesome. She got me excited about learning. To this day Science is one of most interesting things to me and it is because of her.
See if you can find an area or subject that your son is interested in and do a summer activity with it if possible (ie marine life=swim with the dophins, reading=find out if there is an autograph signing for his favorite author, space exploration=take him to Kennedy space center or enroll him for the space camp in AL or TX) Sometimes even local colleges have summer fun programs that are academic. Explain to him how one subject in school relates to another and how you need to learn all to be a successful adult. He may be too young for this but I did this with my DD who is 11 and it turned her around some when she was starting to burn out this yr. Explain to him that if you don't have a high school diploma that you can't get into college, if you don't go to college you are most likely going to make so much an hr (I used $8.) I had her add up how much she would make for a week , we deducted so much for tax , I told her an avg. apt. rental cost, electricity, water, phone, car, insureance and so on . Had her deduct it from her wages. she had nothing left , she was in the red. That was a wake up call, that I am sure I will have to use again to refresh her memory at some point. But she got back on course and so far this yr is As and Bs.
There is no easy answer for this just do what you think is best for your son .
MermaidsMom
<font color=red>Do you live trap squirrels with cr
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2001
- Messages
- 1,602
DON'T DO IT! Study after study are showing that it causes long lasting problems with social development, and for a happy and productive life how you view yourself is vastly more important than how well you were graded on a test in the 3rd grade. Whatever happened to "this too will pass?". It's not worth it, you take a chance of destroying your relationship with your child and his relationships with others forever.
I am a teacher went back to school after my kids grew up!) and the mother of a grown child with an Aug 31st birthday.
Her IQ is 127--and I held her back in 6th grade! I could see a lot of immaturity in her and the way she dealt with school (and life in general.) Her grades were adequate, but not nearly up to her potential. What I did is to switch to a private Lutheran school and have her repeat sixth grade. She has told me more than once how glad she is that we did this.
Her classes in the private school were small -- 15 students. The teacher immediately recognized her talents in art and music and she was given a lot of opportunity to excell in both. He also was able to challenge her intellectually. She was not bored because the curriculum was different from the public school. Since the classes were small, there was much more scope for making good friends and each person was an individual--not part of a mass of students. It was the best decision I ever made!
When she went to high school, she auditioned and was admitted to the High School for Performing and Visual Arts in Houston. (she now has a bachelors degree in drawing and painting and a masters in education).
Her IQ is 127--and I held her back in 6th grade! I could see a lot of immaturity in her and the way she dealt with school (and life in general.) Her grades were adequate, but not nearly up to her potential. What I did is to switch to a private Lutheran school and have her repeat sixth grade. She has told me more than once how glad she is that we did this.
Her classes in the private school were small -- 15 students. The teacher immediately recognized her talents in art and music and she was given a lot of opportunity to excell in both. He also was able to challenge her intellectually. She was not bored because the curriculum was different from the public school. Since the classes were small, there was much more scope for making good friends and each person was an individual--not part of a mass of students. It was the best decision I ever made!
When she went to high school, she auditioned and was admitted to the High School for Performing and Visual Arts in Houston. (she now has a bachelors degree in drawing and painting and a masters in education).
The school has evaluation results which shows his I.Q. is 132. Psych. was confident that once the school saw this they would put DS in more challenging atmosphere...but they still insist that he has ADD/LD which has been ruled out clinically. I have had meeting after meeting to explain situation and to just let DS try a program. Problem is somewhat DS himself...he has been teased so often by kids in class that he is dumb, that he does not want to be a smart kid as he thinks thay are all mean and does not want to be a mean kid. We have explained to him about real life and how school is necessary for decent job etc. He has told us that he just wants to live in a van, and be able to go to different airports to take flying lessons to be a pilot. We told him how you need a to know math to be a pilot. We approached it everyway you can think of. Keep in mind he is 8...and he isn't ready to get the whole picture just yet.
Psych does not suggest parochial school as it is too structured for DS and it would just set him up for failure...feel inadequate again. She suggests Montessori, which would be fine if it didn't cost $800 per month. We cannot afford that. I have checked into volunteering for them/working toward his tuition etc., but no luck. That brings us to homeschooling or a school change. DS is extremely social and the day to day interaction is vital. Although, since he is being silly of late, he does need to learn when it is appropriate to socialize. That and the fact that his current school is extremely rigid with rules. No talking in halls/ bathroom/lunch dismissal etc. So he really does not have enough of a social release over the 6.5 hour day. In 4th those opportunities get even slimmer, which is one reason the maturity level is imp. My friend is attempting to get her DH to see that their little guy is struggling and to switch schools at least if he won't retain. The problem we are both facing is that you must petition the district with your reason, and hope the new school has room for your child. I had already done that with back-up letters from Psyc. and tutor, and had verbal o.k. from new principal if school has room. That is where I am at, waiting for enrollment, and deciding which grade...or a move if we can pull it off You guys have been so helpful. I second guess myself all the time as to whether or not we are doing the right thing...DH is really pulling for the retention, but what if Psych testing is off? What if there is un underlying prob. and we are missing it? Then retention isn't the answer and we have ADDED another stress to DS. We also have DD entering 8th next year and need to think about any disruption to her life/school. AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH! We want to run away to WDW!
Psych does not suggest parochial school as it is too structured for DS and it would just set him up for failure...feel inadequate again. She suggests Montessori, which would be fine if it didn't cost $800 per month. We cannot afford that. I have checked into volunteering for them/working toward his tuition etc., but no luck. That brings us to homeschooling or a school change. DS is extremely social and the day to day interaction is vital. Although, since he is being silly of late, he does need to learn when it is appropriate to socialize. That and the fact that his current school is extremely rigid with rules. No talking in halls/ bathroom/lunch dismissal etc. So he really does not have enough of a social release over the 6.5 hour day. In 4th those opportunities get even slimmer, which is one reason the maturity level is imp. My friend is attempting to get her DH to see that their little guy is struggling and to switch schools at least if he won't retain. The problem we are both facing is that you must petition the district with your reason, and hope the new school has room for your child. I had already done that with back-up letters from Psyc. and tutor, and had verbal o.k. from new principal if school has room. That is where I am at, waiting for enrollment, and deciding which grade...or a move if we can pull it off
You guys have been so helpful. I second guess myself all the time as to whether or not we are doing the right thing...DH is really pulling for the retention, but what if Psych testing is off? What if there is un underlying prob. and we are missing it? Then retention isn't the answer and we have ADDED another stress to DS. We also have DD entering 8th next year and need to think about any disruption to her life/school. AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH! We want to run away to WDW!BusyMomof3
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
- Messages
- 117
My youngest DS is also in 3rd grade and has been having many of the same struggles this year. He does have ADHD which was diagnosed in 1st grade. He did OK in school until this year. As others have posted, 3rd grade seems to be a pivotal year. The work gets harder, there is more homework and the kids are expected to be more mature and responsible. DS had tested gifted, but is struggling just to get C's. He also seems to be immature socially, emotionally, and developementally. We have been working with the school to provide some interventions for him, but they don't seem to be helping much. We have considered holding him back, but the school doesn't feel it is necessary since he is passing. Also, his self-esteem is so low that he would just be crushed if we held him back.
As we have gone through this year, DH and I have realized more and more that the traditional classroom setting just isn't working for DS. After looking at different options and after much discussion and prayer, we have decided to try virtual school next year. It is similar to homeschooling, but he will actually be enrolled in the virtual school and we will have much teacher support. We will use a combination of computer and textbooks. Also, the curriculum will be adjusted to his needs. He could be doing third grade work in some subjects and 4th grade in others. This is a good option for us, as he can repeat third grade without all the social issues it could bring about in a public school setting.
I know this option would not work for everyone, as you would have to be home all day with your child. I was a SAHM until this year when I started working as a support staff sub for our school district, so I won't have a problem being home again.
Also, please don't think I am against public schools - we have 2 older kids who are doing well in public school. Our decision came down to this: We could keep DS in public school, let them do what they could for him with interventions and other programs, and pray that he would be OK, or we could be proactive and try something new/different that hopefully could unlock his potential.
As we have gone through this year, DH and I have realized more and more that the traditional classroom setting just isn't working for DS. After looking at different options and after much discussion and prayer, we have decided to try virtual school next year. It is similar to homeschooling, but he will actually be enrolled in the virtual school and we will have much teacher support. We will use a combination of computer and textbooks. Also, the curriculum will be adjusted to his needs. He could be doing third grade work in some subjects and 4th grade in others. This is a good option for us, as he can repeat third grade without all the social issues it could bring about in a public school setting.
I know this option would not work for everyone, as you would have to be home all day with your child. I was a SAHM until this year when I started working as a support staff sub for our school district, so I won't have a problem being home again.
Also, please don't think I am against public schools - we have 2 older kids who are doing well in public school. Our decision came down to this: We could keep DS in public school, let them do what they could for him with interventions and other programs, and pray that he would be OK, or we could be proactive and try something new/different that hopefully could unlock his potential.
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