Has anyone else had issues with the new Oceaneer's club/lab policies?

[girl_barrie]

This is ONE extreme example. YOu cannot use it as a basis for generalizations about other people's children, and you did upthread. It certianly read likle you meant far more children than one extreme example. when you said:
" So any time we were in there there were kids, obviously STARVING for some kind of adult attention and interaction, who would flock to us!"

and:
"Some people REALLY need to spend more TIME listening & playing with their own children. I realize that life is busy & it is not an easy thing, but it is so sad to me how many children, ignored by their own parents (who usually are physically RIGHT THERE) latch on to being with our family because we, his parents, obviously LOVE playing WITH our son. Not just on DCL, but this happens almost everywhere we go."

and:
"And it doesn't only happen in the "Kids'" area of the ship - but everywhere! Oftentimes the kids' parents are RIGHT THERE - on their phone/computer, reading, talking, whatever - but NOT playing with (or even paying any attention to) their own kid(s) like we do with ours. We don't intend to be "Pied Pipers", but it is amazing how many attention-starved children latch onto us! THAT is the thing that parents need to be cautious and aware of, because predators quickly see & feed on that need in the child."

It seems to me like you are talking about something much more common than your extreme example, and not toalking about parents who just don'ttake care of thier kids at all. SO which one is it? Is it a large number of parents everywhere you go, or one extreme example?? Your above qutoes read like you encounter people often who don't parent like you choose to and feel they are disinterested uninvolved parents who are not adequately parenting thier children. I would say those same parents are giving their kids an appropiate level of independence by not needing to be right there entertainig them every second.

I used this single example so hopefully you would GET what I meant and it would stop the "You think you are a savior" and the defensiveness of "MY kid(s) LIKE to play with others..."
This DOES happen to us a lot! A LOT!!! In this case, the parent actually verbalized the "I don't care". THAT was pretty unique, but the kid hanging with us all day & no adult checking on him/her is not an isolated occurrence. Not by far!
If you feel that that is "giving their kids an appropiate level of independence by not needing to be right there entertainig them every second (sic)", What about the adults of the family that your kid has decided to latch onto??? What if that family doesn't WANT to entertain YOUR kid either??? Should they tell your kid to go away and play with their OWN grown-ups???
I wouldn't even have brought it up if it was a single isolated incident.

 

[sabrecmc]

The Dream Open House hours posted seem more reasonable than the Wonder's...any ideas on what the Magic is doing? We sail on her in July. DD is 6, so she can kind of work between the Club and Lab, so it isn't a huge issue for us, though I still don't like the idea. Just seems that there is plenty for families to do other than hang out in the kids' clubs. Or, if there isn't, then that is something that can be addressed by having more family activities, not opening part of the kids'-only sections to adults.

The Open Houses in the older kids' clubs seems...odd.

 

[princessmom29]

I used this single example so hopefully you would GET what I meant and it would stop the "You think you are a savior" and the defensiveness of "MY kid(s) LIKE to play with others..."
This DOES happen to us a lot! A LOT!!! In this case, the parent actually verbalized the "I don't care". THAT was pretty unique, but the kid hanging with us all day & no adult checking on him/her is not an isolated occurrence. Not by far!
If you feel that that is "giving their kids an appropiate level of independence by not needing to be right there entertainig them every second (sic)", What about the adults of the family that your kid has decided to latch onto??? What if that family doesn't WANT to entertain YOUR kid either??? Should they tell your kid to go away and play with their OWN grown-ups???
I wouldn't even have brought it up if it was a single isolated incident.

yep, that is exactly what you should do. If you don't want to entertain other people's kids DON'T, but don't call them bad parents either just becuase they do things differently than you would. I hardly think they are as disinterested as you seem to think they are. Not all of us choose to play with our kids every second and that, no matter what you may think, is OK. If you don't want them playing with your group, them tell them they need to find something else to do, but don't assume just because a parent isn't playing with them and they chose to play with you that that parent doesn't see that, or isn't involved enough with thier child. Mabye they are choosing to give the child some space. Just because they didn't TELL you that they see what is going on, doesn't mean they don't know or care. I also hardly think that you ALWAYS have kids spen ALL DAY with you without and adult checking on them. My mom has the personality you seem to have and usually ends up with kids surrounding her when she is playing with DD, but very rarely does one spend ALL DAY without being checked on by an adult. Most of the time thier parents are nearby watching, but rarely do they speak to any of us. I think you may be exaggerating a bit there. A hour or even two doesn't equate to all day, and doesn't make someone a bad parent.

I am the parent of an only and made the mistake early on of thinking that I had to be right there playing with her every second to be a good mommmy.You just don't, and in fact are doing the child a disservice by being aconstant companion. They don't learn to interact with other children and work things out amoung themselves if mommy is right there all the time to fix it. Kids need breathing room to develop thier own relationships without their parents intervention.

So, now I choose NOT to be right ther with her every second, even though I AM aware of where she is and what she is doing. She NEEDS to be able to interact adn play without me hovering. That doesn't make me a bad mom. I am sure if you saw us at the pool you would think so however, becuase I sit on a lounge chiar and allow DD to play with the other chidlren a good bit of the time, and GASP, I might even be reading while she plays. You are assuming a lot about a parent just becuase thier child wants to play with you and yours. Most of that is likely not true. that is the point I am trying to make here. A parent who allows their kid to play with your group for a while is not necessairly disinterested and neglectful.

Also, have you ever considered that it isn't about YOU at all? Mabye it is not your super parenting that they are drawn to at all, but rather being KIDS they want to play with your KID and thier parent chooses to allow them to do so??

 

[princessmom29]

The Dream Open House hours posted seem more reasonable than the Wonder's...any ideas on what the Magic is doing? We sail on her in July. DD is 6, so she can kind of work between the Club and Lab, so it isn't a huge issue for us, though I still don't like the idea. Just seems that there is plenty for families to do other than hang out in the kids' clubs. Or, if there isn't, then that is something that can be addressed by having more family activities, not opening part of the kids'-only sections to adults.

The Open Houses in the older kids' clubs seems...odd.

ITA. I simply don't see any reason adults NEED to be in the kids clubs, unless they have a special needs child. I think that some allowance needs to be made for caregivers of special needs children , but other than that, parents don't belong in the kids club. Let the kids have thier space. Obviously others feel differently, hence the open houses, and i will be happy if the schedule when we sail in 3 weeks is similar to what consrevativehippie experienced.

 

[kathi]

I am the parent of an only and made the mistake early on of thinking that I had to be right there playing with her every second to be a good mommmy.You just don't, and in fact are doing the child a disservice by being aconstant companion. They don't learn to interact with other children and work things out amoung themselves if mommy is right there all the time to fix it. Kids need breathing room to develop thier own relationships without their parents intervention.

So, now I choose NOT to be right ther with her every second, even though I AM aware of where she is and what she is doing. She NEEDS to be able to interact adn play without me hovering. That doesn't make me a bad mom. I am sure if you saw us at the pool you would think so however, becuase I sit on a lounge chiar and allow DD to play with the other chidlren a good bit of the time, and GASP, I might even be reading while she plays. You are assuming a lot about a parent just becuase thier child wants to play with you and yours. Most of that is likely not true. that is the point I am trying to make here. A parent who allows their kid to play with your group for a while is not necessairly disinterested and neglectful.

I am also have an only child and she does not want to play with me, she wants to play with other kids. I allow her to do so. If it looks like the kids are playing with their parent, I will go over and interoduce myself and ask if it's OK if she plays with ther kids. I am not a helicoptor parent and as long as I can see my child and she is nearby, I let her interact with other children. (She is 7.)

I would not want her playing with adults that I have not spoken to and I try very hard for her not to "bug" other adults.

 

[princessmom29]

I am also have an only child and she does not want to play with me, she wants to play with other kids. I allow her to do so. If it looks like the kids are playing with their parent, I will go over and interoduce myself and ask if it's OK if she plays with ther kids. I am not a helicoptor parent and as long as I can see my child and she is nearby, I let her interact with other children. (She is 7.)

I would not want her playing with adults that I have not spoken to and I try very hard for her not to "bug" other adults.

ITA, and this is how we normally handle it. I just don't think it makes someone a horrible, disinterested parent if they DON'T come over adn speak with the adult.

 

[girl_barrie]

I am also have an only child and she does not want to play with me, she wants to play with other kids. I allow her to do so. If it looks like the kids are playing with their parent, I will go over and interoduce myself and ask if it's OK if she plays with ther kids. I am not a helicoptor parent and as long as I can see my child and she is nearby, I let her interact with other children. (She is 7.)

I would not want her playing with adults that I have not spoken to and I try very hard for her not to "bug" other adults.

EXACTLY!!!!

princessmom29 - You talk out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say, "I don't want random adults having access to my child" yet you also say that you allow your kid to interact with people, including adults, that you see no need to meet. You've accused me of having a "messiah" complex AND now with your "Most of that is likely not true." statement called me a liar. Since it is obvious that you just want to pick a fight, go do it with someone else.

 

[EcbLovesMickey]

Why do so many discussions on this board deteriorate into arguments?

 

[squirrel]

ITA. I simply don't see any reason adults NEED to be in the kids clubs, unless they have a special needs child. I think that some allowance needs to be made for caregivers of special needs children , but other than that, parents don't belong in the kids club. Let the kids have thier space. Obviously others feel differently, hence the open houses, and i will be happy if the schedule when we sail in 3 weeks is similar to what consrevativehippie experienced.

I don't have any kids and I'm not borrowing any for this next trip. I have to agree with this. The hours that have been posted on the Wonder's Open House are way too long. I know Disney is trying to please everyone but there will always be someone who doesn't like what is decided.

Parents with a special needs child should not be excluded from the clubs (in my opinon) they are there to help their child and not be a burden on the DCL staff. I would have no problem leaving my child in a supervised club that allows one or two parents at a time in to watch or help the staff with their special needs child. I wouldn't want to see a room full of adults in there. Many SN children have workers at Daycare and School to help in the classroom. They aren't taking over the classroom they are there to support the child.

All the parents that are complaining that their under aged child (less than 3) should be allowed to play in the club is crazy. You knew when you booked the cruise that the clubs start at age 3. It's like the parents that are angry with the CM's at a ride when their child is too short to ride. Did they really think that at 38" with shoes that they could ride? Did they think the rules don't apply to them? If you want your child to participate in the club, book your trip when your child is 3. Same as the parent that wants their child to ride all the 40" rides-book your trip when your child is 40".

I do feel sorry for the parents/teenagers that were caught when the Vibe cut off changed to 17 yrs. That was unfortunate and probably could have been handled better by Disney-It's too late now.

 

[TheLanes]

Why do so many discussions on this board deteriorate into arguments?

What's your problem with arguments? Huh? Huh?

Just kidding... I hear ya!

 

[Wadekind]

EXACTLY!!!!

princessmom29 - You talk out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say, "I don't want random adults having access to my child" yet you also say that you allow your kid to interact with people, including adults, that you see no need to meet. You've accused me of having a "messiah" complex AND now with your "Most of that is likely not true." statement called me a liar. Since it is obvious that you just want to pick a fight, go do it with someone else.

Myself and others also commented on your perceptions about being a pied piper/messiah. You come off as someone who is very judgmental of others who do not parent as you do.
I do not want anyone interacting with my kids without my approval and expect that when they are in the clubs only CMs will be there. Parents such as yourself are one of the reasons DCL has started the open houses. I do not agree with your reasoning as to why you should be the exception. I see the open house hours as a reduction in services not a benefit.

 

[Debebrolu]

Although, I believe some of the comments girl_barrie metioned were offensive, I think I should probably say she is not the only person who dislikes DCL's new policy on secured programming. I'm actually surprised there are not more parents complaining about not being to go in the club activities with thier kids. During our last cruise, I really did not like the idea of leaving my 3 year old alone in the club but I said, if I went in and the place made me feel comfortable I might give it a try. Unfortunately, it was the total opposite. DH and I stood away from all the activity and just watched. During Toy Story Bootcamp, several of the smaller kids wandered off to the slide and other rooms. 3 CMs sat on a table near us and talked about how there was no point in chasing after them and continued on with thier "gossip". I found this disappointing. Isn't that thier job? My point is those of you who are complaining about random people (parents) being in the club...are you really sure who is watching your children? Just because Disney is in front of it, doesn't make it 100% safe. I just hope there is still plenty of Open House time when we cruise in May so that my son will get the opportunity to play in the Club/Lab and all of this complaining does not ruin it for us "overprotective" parents

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Although, I believe some of the comments girl_barrie metioned were offensive, I think I should probably say she is not the only person who dislikes DCL's new policy on secured programming. I'm actually surprised there are not more parents complaining about not being to go in the club activities with thier kids. During our last cruise, I really did not like the idea of leaving my 3 year old alone in the club but I said, if I went in and the place made me feel comfortable I might give it a try. Unfortunately, it was the total opposite. DH and I stood away from all the activity and just watched. During Toy Story Bootcamp, several of the smaller kids wandered off to the slide and other rooms. 3 CMs sat on a table near us and talked about how there was no point in chasing after them and continued on with thier "gossip". I found this disappointing. Isn't that thier job? My point is those of you who are complaining about random people (parents) being in the club...are you really sure who is watching your children? Just because Disney is in front of it, doesn't make it 100% safe. I just hope there is still plenty of Open House time when we cruise in May so that my son will get the opportunity to play in the Club/Lab and all of this complaining does not ruin it for us "overprotective" parents

Well, I disagree that it is the CMs' job to chase the children down and get them to attend the planned activities. There are several places to play in the Club - if a child is not interested in the Boot Camp, or Story Time, or whatever, they are free to do something else.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

Well, I disagree that it is the CMs' job to chase the children down and get them to attend the planned activities. There are several places to play in the Club - if a child is not interested in the Boot Camp, or Story Time, or whatever, they are free to do something else.

It is not the job of the YAC CM's to "make" any child attend or participate in any activity. They should encourage them to, but if the child decide's they would rather do something else, then it is their choice to do something else.
It's not a school, there are no set activities or curriculum to adhere to.

I fear some are mis-interpreting the Club and the Lab as something more than unstructured day care with fun thing's to do, and for the kid's to do what they want?
Participation in any activity is not mandatory.

Ex Techie

 

[justhat]

Again you completely missed my point!!!
We have NO DESIRE to be ANYONE'S savior!! We want to enjoy our ONLY own kid and playing with him - regardless of location!!! We have NO DESIRE to have the responsibility of ANY OTHER kids but OUR OWN!!!
YES!! Kids like attention. And as I stated clearly for all of the defensive, "MY kid is social and likes to play with others even if they are adults. Does that make ME a "negligent parent"???"people, NO!!!! I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR KIDS!!!!!! As I CLEARLY stated, I AM NOT talking about kids who normally know how to interact socially!!!
A specific example of what I AM speaking about (that actually happened on one of our DCL cruises) was when we went to a pool shore excursion... We were playing and having fun with our kid in the vast pools & a girl about our son's age joined in the fun. At first THAT was no biggie. She was a sweet little girl. But as the day wore on (and we were there for the entire day), she NEVER ONCE had an adult come check on her NOR see if we WANTED her company!! SHE WAS 5 YEARS OLD!!!! We ordered smoothies & lunch for our family and she asked US if she could have some too. Not wanting to potentially give the kid something she may be allergic to, and frankly, a bit tired of her company after several HOURS, I asked her WHO & where her adult(s) were?? She pointed to two ladies at the uppermost pool, her Mom & Auntie lounging, sucking down margaritas & reading magazines. I went up & introduced myself to them and told them that we had been taking care of their child, who was now thirsty & hungry. The laughing, slurred response was(and I quote)"As long as she doesn't bug US, she can do whatever she wants!" Hubby & I were appalled, didn't want to continue having this kid hang with us, but felt so badly about how she was just dying for ANY attention that we weren't going to tell her to go away & had her join us for lunch & pretty much the rest of the day until we got back to the ship.
THAT is what I mean as attention-starved!! And unfortunately, this was NOT a completely unique experience to us.
If you as a parent, & YOUR KID is NOT like THAT, I AM NOT talking about YOU!! Get it???

Also for the poster who said, "Well YOU only have ONE kid." Yup, we only have one by choice!
I taught school for seven years and had 20-40 all day long! I KNOW how difficult it can be to have more than one kid - honestly I do. And if you are NOT the kind of parent that foists your kids off on strangers, I am NOT talking about YOU!!!!

That is great that you chose to have one kid. I also "chose" to have 3. But that isn't my point. My point is that when you have 1 kid, you can do a lot of things that you can't when you have 3. I would know, since I have been on both sides of this. With one kid my husband and I could trade off and amuse said kid constantly if need be. With 3, we're both on at all times, with an extra one to contend with.

And I'm not sure what being a teacher has to do with it. I worked in a daycare while in grad school, prior to having my 1st child. Nothing at all like having my own.

EXACTLY!!!!

princessmom29 - You talk out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say, "I don't want random adults having access to my child" yet you also say that you allow your kid to interact with people, including adults, that you see no need to meet. You've accused me of having a "messiah" complex AND now with your "Most of that is likely not true." statement called me a liar. Since it is obvious that you just want to pick a fight, go do it with someone else.

This is actually pretty offensive. I'm not sure why you're acting so aggressive. I see what princessmom is saying, cause I don't want strangers interacting with my kids in the clubs either. I wouldn't have an issue with my child talking to or observing another family/adult in public, where I am in plain sight, but the club, where I am not present, is a different story.

Although, I believe some of the comments girl_barrie metioned were offensive, I think I should probably say she is not the only person who dislikes DCL's new policy on secured programming. I'm actually surprised there are not more parents complaining about not being to go in the club activities with thier kids. During our last cruise, I really did not like the idea of leaving my 3 year old alone in the club but I said, if I went in and the place made me feel comfortable I might give it a try. Unfortunately, it was the total opposite. DH and I stood away from all the activity and just watched. During Toy Story Bootcamp, several of the smaller kids wandered off to the slide and other rooms. 3 CMs sat on a table near us and talked about how there was no point in chasing after them and continued on with thier "gossip". I found this disappointing. Isn't that thier job? My point is those of you who are complaining about random people (parents) being in the club...are you really sure who is watching your children? Just because Disney is in front of it, doesn't make it 100% safe. I just hope there is still plenty of Open House time when we cruise in May so that my son will get the opportunity to play in the Club/Lab and all of this complaining does not ruin it for us "overprotective" parents

I don't think the kids should be forced to participate in the activity so I am glad this is how it works. My kids have gone for certain activities before, but then ended up not enjoying it as much as they thought. So when I picked them up and asked about the activity, they said they left and did some coloring (or whatever), and that's fine with me. If they want to do the activity, sweet! If not, that's okay too. Their club, their choice.

For me, the job of the CMs is to keep my child safe, primarily, and make sure they have fun, but that can be in any way, not necessarily in a specific activity.

Well, I disagree that it is the CMs' job to chase the children down and get them to attend the planned activities. There are several places to play in the Club - if a child is not interested in the Boot Camp, or Story Time, or whatever, they are free to do something else.

I agree.

 

[bledsoedoc]

I do agree that I hope all this complaining does not ruin the open houses. There are plenty of people who like them. Most are scared to post on this thread because they get ripped to pieces. Disney made a compromise to make both sides happy and to be more secured.
That is what life is about...compromise.
For those interested, there are tamer threads with actual In formation on them and not just assumptions and speculation. The same is true for other boards. This thread has been rather mean from the get go and I am notvsure why it was not closed down yet. Both sides need to leave the parenting advice behind.

 

[princessmom29]

EXACTLY!!!!

princessmom29 - You talk out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say, "I don't want random adults having access to my child" yet you also say that you allow your kid to interact with people, including adults, that you see no need to meet. You've accused me of having a "messiah" complex AND now with your "Most of that is likely not true." statement called me a liar. Since it is obvious that you just want to pick a fight, go do it with someone else.

Are you even reading all of what I am posting? If so I don't see how you get this out of it.

There is a huge difference between an adult with access to my kid in the clubs when I am not there and my sitting right there watching her play with a child who has their parent with them. I DID actually say that i would choose to introduce myself tot the parent, but refuse to tar and feather parents that don't.

I said that you are most likely exaggerating, not that you wre lying. There is a difference. I don't want a fight, but I do want you to realize how judgemental and offensive your posts come off. If it were just me, maybe I could write it off as being overly sensitive, but it seems a fair amount of others see them this way too.

 

[deanimal]

I do agree that I hope all this complaining does not ruin the open houses. There are plenty of people who like them. Most are scared to post on this thread because they get ripped to pieces. Disney made a compromise to make both sides happy and to be more secured.
That is what life is about...compromise.
For those interested, there are tamer threads with actual In formation on them and not just assumptions and speculation. The same is true for other boards. This thread has been rather mean from the get go and I am notvsure why it was not closed down yet. Both sides need to leave the parenting advice behind.

I'm the original poster on this thread. I have to admit I had just come back from my first cruise and felt that things hadn't been communicated and organized as well as they could have been, but I had no idea so many people would jump in and take things in the directions they did. Whatever happened to the web's "friendliest discussion forum?" I'm sort of wishing now I had just kept my thought to myself. I'd be more than happy to see the thread shut down and a more civil discussion of the topic continue somewhere else!

 

[ALCooper3]

Although, I believe some of the comments girl_barrie metioned were offensive, I think I should probably say she is not the only person who dislikes DCL's new policy on secured programming. I'm actually surprised there are not more parents complaining about not being to go in the club activities with thier kids. During our last cruise, I really did not like the idea of leaving my 3 year old alone in the club but I said, if I went in and the place made me feel comfortable I might give it a try. Unfortunately, it was the total opposite. DH and I stood away from all the activity and just watched. During Toy Story Bootcamp, several of the smaller kids wandered off to the slide and other rooms. 3 CMs sat on a table near us and talked about how there was no point in chasing after them and continued on with thier "gossip". I found this disappointing. Isn't that thier job? My point is those of you who are complaining about random people (parents) being in the club...are you really sure who is watching your children? Just because Disney is in front of it, doesn't make it 100% safe. I just hope there is still plenty of Open House time when we cruise in May so that my son will get the opportunity to play in the Club/Lab and all of this complaining does not ruin it for us "overprotective" parents

We had a very similar experience on our cruise. The kids "programming" was a big disappointment on our cruise. Even if participation in the structured activities (which are advertized to be taking place) is not mantatory, the CMs should be encouraging/inviting kids to participate. If they tried to make the activities exciting and acted like they enjoy working WITH kids rather than ignoring them more kids probably would be doing structured activities. What I saw was more like a free for all, with CMs just standing around "watching" the kids. Unfortunately, the parents who just drop their kids off without actually observing what is going on rely on the infomation given to them by their kids and may not understand how the clubs really operate when no one is looking. Of course kids are going to tell their parents they had a great time in the club if they are allowed to run wild.

 

[conandrob240]

We had a similar experience and I agree 100%. the CMs job is to make the activities look fun, go around and try to round up participants and generate participation. Given the age of drop off is 3 yrs old, those kid's are certainly going to need some coaxing, reminding, etc. My niece had just turned 4 on last summer's cruise and luckily she is very outgoing and vocal or she would have missed out. We would look at the navigators, I would tell her about the activities and then I'd drop her off, telling her to listen for the announcement for x activity that she had picked. If she wasn't consciously listening or knew to seek out the activity she would have missed it. The CMs should circulate through the rooms 10 min or so before the activities, describing them and asking them to engage. My older nephew (11) is very shy and he had trouble last year in the tween club speaking up when he wanted to join an activity. If the CMs had actively solidified him, he would have done more and probably really enjoyed himself with other kid's. He actually found the CMs so apathetic with his group that they would regularly shorten cancel scheduled activities because " you guys look tired" or " we'll just do it next week since most of you are on the back to back". It was annoying.