Has anyone else had issues with the new Oceaneer's club/lab policies?

[TDC Nala]

My question is if the incident that caused this change happened in the "teen" club, is club Vibe and Edge affected also?

Yes, it's said they are going back on their policy of allowing 18 year olds who are still in high school into that club. No one 18 or over will be allowed in the teen clubs anymore. Including the parents, unless they're holding an open house, which I think they do only on embarcation day.

 

[threewilmingtonwalls]

We just got off the Magic (12/24-30) and the new "scheme" was in place and it really wasnt the big issue several posters are worried it will be. Unless your kid will be in the club from 8am to midnight, he/she will be separated by age for most of the time. We had our 8yo with us in the morning and early afternoon, going to the pool/slide, playing games, goofing around; she'd often want to go to the Lab at 4 or 5 for an hour before dinner, and it always was in secure time by then. AND, it ALWAYS was in secure time - and age appropriate activities - by post-dinner. That was her fav time, when it was all the 7-10 yos in the Lab after dinner. I understand that folks have the occasional spa treatment or brunch, but unless you're checking your kid in for 12+ hours at a stretch, there is very little time in which they'd be in a 3-10 yo group. The CMs do a fine job minding the different ages when that is the case...for the 2 hours or so that that occurs.

Really, no need to cancel a trip or anything! Honestly!

Thanks very much for sharing this! I'm glad your family had a great experience. I'm assuming that because it was a holiday sailing, you were probably on a full ship? So if things were running smoothly and not overcrowded during that time, then hopefully some of us can look forward to a not-unpleasant experience. I still think DCL will have to tweak this program to get the kinks worked out, but it doesn't usually take them long to identify the problem and make adjustments.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

I see that you disagree. But Disney already had an incident with an adult who had been allowed into the teen club. He was not a parent, but being a parent isn't enough. Parents do bad things, too, and sometimes to children other than their own. If there is an incident that ends up in court you can bet the first question would be "so, you allow full-time and unfettered access to the children's clubs to adults who have had no background check at all, just because they have a child in there?"

The staff are also not there to supervise the parents.

An "incident" did not happen in the teen club, although for whatever reason the young man in question was allowed in there. It seemed that on one hand he was there as support staff for AOS and on the other, he was allowed to participate in the club activities.

The two most concerning things mentioned in the post everyone keeps alluding to were banging on a stateroom door in the middle of the night and confronting the father of the girl outside a restaurant.

So IMO what is being done to protect guests through out the ship?

 

[lbgraves]

I just am so glad I got trip insurance. When I went to my travel agent I asked for the kids club info as what they will be doing is my 1st piority. This is what I was given.

"Oceaneer's Club (ages 3-7) & The Oceaneer Club is for children 3 to 7 years of age and they must be toilet-trained. Children are grouped into two age categories, 3-4 and 5-7 year olds. There are fun, supervised activities featured throughout the cruise"

The one I would be upset with is your TA, not DCL. The clubs have not had strict age seperations like that for a few years now. Both the Club and Lab have been advertised as being set up for kids 3-10 since at least 2008. I remember that because it was on the EBPC cruise that both of my kids were in the lab being 8 & 10 and complained about the little kids going over there. They had waited until they were older and at that time the small kids could participate in the activities for the bigger kids.

I disagree with that. I'm in childcare and we have parents/primary caregivers volunteer or just observe all the time and have not had an incident. Parents are not left alone with any child other than their own which means they are 100% supervised by staff. With that being said, they can give parents a special wrist band/lanyard/something to indicate they are in fact the person that should be with that child and not just a random adult

This is where DCL is not able to handle this situation. According to many reports, parents who were in the clubs were in fact interferring with children who were not with them. It is bad enough for kids to have to fend for themselves in a group of other kids their age...especially when the ages can range 3-10. A kid doesn't stand a chance against a pushy parent who wants to make sure their kids has a turn at everything.

As stated, a 23 yo adult was permitted in the teen club under the pretext that he was there to help special needs kids, when in fact he was a person with special needs. A 14 yo girl was harrassed the entire cruise both in the club and around the ship. This could happen at any age, so DCL has taken the steps necessary to ensure that nothing like that can happen again.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Yes, it's said they are going back on their policy of allowing 18 year olds who are still in high school into that club. No one 18 or over will be allowed in the teen clubs anymore. Including the parents, unless they're holding an open house, which I think they do only on embarcation day.

As per recent posts, either the club or the lab will be holding an open house/family time during the hours of operation while the other facility will host secured programming. As of now, it seems like the two facilities trade off at 4 hour intervals.

 

[GatorMomInNC]

Not bloody likely! I was on a 14 day cruise with a relatively small number of kids on board (for a Disney cruise anyway). The CMs knew me and my kids by name and I knew them by name within a few days. When I would pick up my kids they would come running over screaming "Hi MOMMY". But whenever I wanted to leave with my kids - whether I was in with them for a little while first or just picking up - I still had to wait and go through the wristband check and password - EVERY TIME!! You would think that the CMs had never seen me before and my kids weren't jumping up and down to get at me! So I would not be worried AT ALL about your child being kidnapped from one of the kids clubs.

I liked being able to go in the clubs- especially at first with my older son who has suffers from anxiety (but after a day or 2 he was fine). And I liked seeing some of the cool stuff they did. I personally hope they go back to the old system.

I am glad parents can't go in with the checked in children. (I hope this is the case.) It would make it so much easier for someone to kidnap a child or a child to just wander out. As a former preschool teacher, I feel strongly that keeping the kids secure means keeping the area secure. Parents should be able to see in without going in.

I am however dismayed at the length of the open houses.

 

[TDC Nala]

An "incident" did not happen in the teen club, although for whatever reason the young man in question was allowed in there. It seemed that on one hand he was there as support staff for AOS and on the other, he was allowed to participate in the club activities.

The two most concerning things mentioned in the post everyone keeps alluding to were banging on a stateroom door in the middle of the night and confronting the father of the girl outside a restaurant.

So IMO what is being done to protect guests through out the ship?

According to the post, he continually followed the girl around the ship. The confrontation occured after the parents tried to get him to leave their daughter alone. He met her in the teen club and yes, it was alleged that he did harass her in the teen club. Doesn't matter in the long run why he was in there, they did allow an adult into the club to participate in activites with the teens. Apparently he was also considered a staff member of this group that was assisting special needs kids. So would he have counted as a caretaker?

Can completely see why Disney feels like they can't do this anymore. Although I think there are other concerns at work, like maybe too many parents staying in the clubs with their kids to do activities.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

According to the post, he continually followed the girl around the ship. The confrontation occured after the parents tried to get him to leave their daughter alone. He met her in the teen club and yes, it was alleged that he did harass her in the teen club. Doesn't matter in the long run why he was in there, they did allow an adult into the club to participate in activites with the teens. Apparently he was also considered a staff member of this group that was assisting special needs kids. So would he have counted as a caretaker?

Can completely see why Disney feels like they can't do this anymore. Although I think there are other concerns at work, like maybe too many parents staying in the clubs with their kids to do activities.

Which comes back to, had this been handled right to begin with- he should have not been a participant in the teen club and if he was a caretaker, he should have been reassigned to another club or better yet no club given the alarms he was raising. But according to the OP, DCL did nothing and the matter began to escalate.

None of us know where he first laid eyes on this girl. Again, the most egregious incidents happened outside the club in regards to that family.

Before that, we know a girl inappropriately touched by another teen- and a teen girl was assaulted in secluded part of the ship late at night by a drunken male passenger.

Which leads me to believe that ultimately the clubs are safe, its the rest of the ship we need to watch out for.

 

[justhat]

What cruise did this incident happen on? I just saw AOS mentioned and we were on a cruise with a huge AOS group in October, but I didn't hear of any problems. Wondering if it is the same cruise.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

What cruise did this incident happen on? I just saw AOS mentioned and we were on a cruise with a huge AOS group in October, but I didn't hear of any problems. Wondering if it is the same cruise.

I believe it was around that time.

 

[joyceyw]

I see that you disagree. But Disney already had an incident with an adult who had been allowed into the teen club. He was not a parent, but being a parent isn't enough. Parents do bad things, too, and sometimes to children other than their own. If there is an incident that ends up in court you can bet the first question would be "so, you allow full-time and unfettered access to the children's clubs to adults who have had no background check at all, just because they have a child in there?"

The staff are also not there to supervise the parents.

But as a parent I have the right to check on my child because again I'm in childcare and even supposedly vetted/fingerprinted staff do bad things to children also. In my industry it's bad bad bad business to not be parent friendly. Meaning to basically have a closed door policy is very unsettling to me as a parent and a professional in this business. So parent's areen't allowed to stay and get their children settled? What about children that are upset and just need a few minutes with their parent to get adjusted? If parent's aren't allowed to at least stay and comfort their child, then that' is a cold, and cruel policy that clearly isn't in the best interest of families

The adult that was let into the teen area appears to be an isolated incident and it appears Disney is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The adult wasn't the parent, that is why I disagree that parents not be allowed in. Non parent yes, and in this case this was a non-parent and that should have never been allowed. So for me the issue is with letting non parents in

 

[justhat]

But as a parent I have the right to check on my child because again I'm in childcare and even supposedly vetted/fingerprinted staff do bad things to children also. In my industry it's bad bad bad business to not be parent friendly. Meaning to basically have a closed door policy is very unsettling to me as a parent and a professional in this business. So parent's areen't allowed to stay and get their children settled? What about children that are upset and just need a few minutes with their parent to get adjusted? If parent's aren't allowed to at least stay and comfort their child, then that' is a cold, and cruel policy that clearly isn't in the best interest of families

The adult that was let into the teen area appears to be an isolated incident and it appears Disney is throwing the baby out with the bath water. The adult wasn't the parent, that is why I disagree that parents not be allowed in. Non parent yes, and in this case this was a non-parent and that should have never been allowed. So for me the issue is with letting non parents in

Here's the thing. I have a child who was very shy and anxious as a 3yo. Now, at nearly 8yo, she'd go anywhere alone, but not back then. The entire first day of the cruise the club has open house. Take that time to get your child accustomed to the club and settled. You shouldn't need to do it every single time you drop off as they'll get used to it. If you need more time, come to the open house on day 2. And so on. Then when you drop them off alone they should be fine.

Also, the club is very open. It has a waist high gate so you can see and touch your child at the gate with ease. You can also see pretty much all of the club from the gate and/or windows near the gate. If you want to check on your child, you can do this without entering the club. The lab is a bit harder to see all parts from the gate, but I usually don't have a problem finding my kids. If I do not see them and want to check on them to see if they want to stay or go, then I tell a CM at the gate to send them up to me. They have invited me in (before this new policy went into effect, but likely even now), but I usually declined as then my toddler wanted to stay. There was never a problem with them sending my kid to the gate so I could check in with them.


While it might benefit one kid to have mommy sit with them for 15 minutes, it doesn't benefit every kid. There are kids who would be fine going in alone cause that's the "rule", even if they are apprehensive, but then if they see kid x has his mommy, they might want theirs. Then if their mom says no, there could be tears. Yes, that is the issue of mom y, but the new policy eliminates that.

And the difference in a daycare/school and the club is that when I volunteer at my kids' school, I don't ever go into bathrooms or whatever with kids. In the club, parents would go into the bathroom with their kids, while my kid (or whoever) is also in there. I don't want some other adult in there with my kid. I don't want them in any area that I can't see with my kid.

And if it's a young 3yo who is overwhelmed by the club, check them into the nursery. We kept my daughter in the nursery on the cruise that she turned 3yo as well as 2 other cruises 4 and 5 months after her 3rd birthday and she had been potty trained, independently, since 25 months. She felt better in the smaller, more intimate environment in the nursery so that's what we did. Sure, we had to pay, but it was worth it since she was happier there and willing to stay. Even with the new age limits, just say your 3yo isn't fully potty independent and they have a spot in the nursery.

I really just don't see a downside to the new rule to the extent that there are complaints. If crowding becomes an issue, I can totally see that being bothersome. But the no adults in there, I am all for it.

 

[justhat]

I believe it was around that time.

Hmm, wow, I had no idea. I can see that, though, as the AOS workers were all over the kids programming and there was one who was extremely odd. We talked with him a few times and each time was a very strange interaction. Hard to explain but he was creepy. Like he kept asking my kids to hang out with him or do stuff with him and they are 5 and 7. I found it odd mostly cause he was an employee of their team, and was always alone, so not like he was trying to get them to do group activities. Not that I have any idea it was this guy, but I will say we started avoiding him when we saw him so it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

In the club, parents would go into the bathroom with their kids, while my kid (or whoever) is also in there. I don't want some other adult in there with my kid. I don't want them in any area that I can't see with my kid.

And if it's a young 3yo who is overwhelmed by the club, check them into the nursery. We kept my daughter in the nursery on the cruise that she turned 3yo as well as 2 other cruises 4 and 5 months after her 3rd birthday and she had been potty trained, independently, since 25 months. She felt better in the smaller, more intimate environment in the nursery so that's what we did. Sure, we had to pay, but it was worth it since she was happier there and willing to stay. Even with the new age limits, just say your 3yo isn't fully potty independent and they have a spot in the nursery.
it.

It's always been my understanding that parents- or even YAC's were not in the bathroom with kids in the club. It would be more than fair and expected that someone taking care of a child in in the club would use the facilities outside (even if they are taking a little one potty) to avoid the type of scenario you described.

While the nursery might be a better environment for certain 3 year olds, potty trained or not , I have heard a few stories that lead me to believe that when DCL is referring to the nursery up to age 3 what they really mean is 36 months. After that the OC is the default registration and people have been given a hard time trying to move their child once one board. While I would hope they would be accommodated, I don't see how they can be guaranteed a spot in the nursery if the ratio in there is full.

 

[JJsmama]

But as a parent I have the right to check on my child because again I'm in childcare and even supposedly vetted/fingerprinted staff do bad things to children also. In my industry it's bad bad bad business to not be parent friendly. Meaning to basically have a closed door policy is very unsettling to me as a parent and a professional in this business. So parent's areen't allowed to stay and get their children settled?

I totally agree with wanting to check on your child and I would not want any of them in a room which parents could not see into. We have cruised DCL twice and at those times, parents generally walked up to the check in desk and checked the kids in / said good bye, etc, then the kids passed through a sort of gate after their wrist bands were scanned. You could still see your child after that and see the others playing clearly. You just were not in there with them.

You can come in later and even see if they are playing happily or not and wave hello or try to duck out before they see you.

When I stated that I am glad they are keeping parents away from the check in kids, I was basing it on this system. I sure hope they haven't changed that. The problem was never parents seeing their children and I seriously doubt they have changed that.

 

[EnchantedTikiGal]

My concerns are with overcrowding (our sailing is at capacity) and the kids' inability to go between clubs when they want to.

This.

So there's say 100 kids (totally hypothetical number) who would be checked in for any specified time. They used to be able to freely go between the lab and club, check out which activities interest them, and have the space to play that this number of kids allowed. Now, the same 100 kids are being kept in only one of the areas, they have half the space as they did before. With sailings maxing out on allowed children, I'd like to know how they are making up for the fact that the play/explore/activity area is essentially halved for many hours out of the day.

I'm not even going to weigh in on the parent issue, I don't care either way and will make do fine with this. I just don't think it's fair to advertise kids areas of the club and lab, and then have them restricted for such large blocks of time.

 

[MikellaCinderella]

This really stinks. DCL has long boasted about having more kids programming space than anyone else at sea. Now they are essentially cutting it in half for hours at a time! Isn't the rest of the ship a giant "Open House" with unsecure activities for families? Why is this necessary? Go ahead and say adults aren't welcome to stay, for security sake, I get that. But why do they have to offer this alternative? Maybe they could offer some of the more popular activities to families somewhere else.

TOTALLY agree with you!!! I don't think we're gonna like this change at all. We sail the Fantasy in April. Hopefully enough parents will complain about this new policy and they will change it back to "normal" before April! Keep emailing them your concerns and disapproval!

 

[MikellaCinderella]

Wait a minute...maybe this family time "open house" thing is a good idea. Maybe they can expand it to include family time at the quiet cove pool (it is less crowded than the others). They could also have family meal time in Palo, my children love fine dining and have very mature palates. I know these were advertised as adults only, but that's inconvenient for our family and I don't want my kids to miss out

THIS totally sums it up!! Love it!

 

[itutorfortravel]

I don't normally allow myself to get into these discussions much, but this one really intrigues me...

As I continue to read this thread, another question comes to mind. During the time that only one club is secured, will there be a limit on the number of children allowed? I would assume there is a max capacity in terms of safety, right? I know not everyone checks their kids into the clubs at the same time, but I could see a situation where there are a lot of kids in the club on a full ship. So what do you do then when the one club is maxed out while and the other hosts a small group of families...and all the while you have no place to take your child?

I have to say I am very disappointed in this change and honestly wish I had never read this thread! Not that I don't appreciate the information, but it is putting a little cloud over my upcoming trip. I still have a couple weeks to cancel, but I don't know if I want to do that. On the other hand, the vacation is way too much money to take the attitude of "well, just go and if you don't like it don't go again..." Not everyone gets to go on a Disney cruise more than once, so I can see how this could really affect their anticipation and overall excitement about the cruise.

What a shame that the kids clubs can't just remain kids clubs like the teen areas are for teens and adult areas are for adults.

 

[Raspberry Beret]

This.

So there's say 100 kids (totally hypothetical number) who would be checked in for any specified time. They used to be able to freely go between the lab and club, check out which activities interest them, and have the space to play that this number of kids allowed. Now, the same 100 kids are being kept in only one of the areas, they have half the space as they did before. With sailings maxing out on allowed children, I'd like to know how they are making up for the fact that the play/explore/activity area is essentially halved for many hours out of the day.

I'm not even going to weigh in on the parent issue, I don't care either way and will make do fine with this. I just don't think it's fair to advertise kids areas of the club and lab, and then have them restricted for such large blocks of time.

That will probably be a major issue at times on some cruises. You could possibly have an occasion where the Open Houses are only being used by parents and <3s, while the majority of registered club and lab kids are stuffed into one space. I've sailed on both classic ships and the Dream and I just don't see how that would be good for the kids or the YACs. The space to child ratio that DCL is known for is thrown out the window. I wouldn't be surprised if we begin to hear about more negative incidents between older and younger kids in the clubs.