Harry Potter Complete Book Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Twinkles6892
- Start date
Ophie - thanks so much for finding that interview and posting it!
Oh, that is such a sad story, esp. when I think of it in Neville's terms. He's lost so much ... and his mother only wants to give back, regardless of what it is she's giving.
It's nice to know the background on the story ... as sad as it may be.
I am sitting here, all sad, thinking of poor Neville and wondering if he knows that it's the best his mother can do. I know I should get over it as Neville is a fictional character ... but still sad, both stories (the real one and Neville's).
Again, I thank you for your dilligence!
ETA - can you post a link to the whole interview? I am sure there are other interesting questions/answers! Thanks!
Warmly,
Daxx's Wife
Oh, that is such a sad story, esp. when I think of it in Neville's terms. He's lost so much ... and his mother only wants to give back, regardless of what it is she's giving.
It's nice to know the background on the story ... as sad as it may be.
I am sitting here, all sad, thinking of poor Neville and wondering if he knows that it's the best his mother can do. I know I should get over it as Neville is a fictional character ... but still sad, both stories (the real one and Neville's).
Again, I thank you for your dilligence!
ETA - can you post a link to the whole interview? I am sure there are other interesting questions/answers! Thanks!
Warmly,
Daxx's Wife
WDW Poly Princess
Needs a Disney Fix
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2000
- Messages
- 4,873
I posted about the book in my online journal after I finished, so instead of typing up everything again, I'm just copy-pasting from there:
So, let's cover the whole Dumbledore/Snape thing first. First of all, I have to say that JKR crafted this book so artfully that both sides of the Snape case can be argued logically and intellectually, each with substantial backup and drawbacks. The way she wove the details leaves us all with our own guesses, but no solid answers. Beautifully done.
Sadly, Dumbledores death wasnt a big surprise to me. Ive believed for a while now that he would go in book 6 or 7, but I was still hoping to hang on to him for as long as possible, since hes always been a favorite. With all of the mentions of Harry being safe as long as Dumbledore is around, you know that there will eventually be a time when Harry is without him, and has to face things on his own.
I haven't made up my mind about all of the details yet, but I'm pretty sure that Snape and Dumbledore had an agreement for Snape to kill Dumbledore. I'm sure that DD knew about Snape's Unbreakable Vow to Narcissa, and rather than having Draco become a murderer, or having Snape die, Dumbledore chose this plan, possibly even having Snape agree to an unbreakable vow to him to carry through. That would explain the argument they had that Hagrid overheard.
Im pretty sure that the potion from the cave was going to kill Dumbledore slowly, and so having Snape kill him in front of the Death Eaters let Snape gain more credibility with them, as well as avoiding death because of his part in the Unbreakable Vow, while just speeding along the inevitable. The only thing I dont get, though, is why it wasnt possible to just dump out the goblets of the potion, instead of having to ingest them. It doesnt seem like they tried anything like that, but I may have missed it.
Next, if Dumbledore had died just from drinking the potion, Harry would have felt responsible, since (even though it was under Dumbledores orders), he was the one making him drink it. By having Snape kill him, Harry didnt have to blame himself.
I find it interesting that Dumbledore made it so that Harry couldn't move- obviously so that he wouldn't be seen and get hurt, most likely so that he wouldn't interfere with the plan, but possibly because he wanted Harry to bear witness to what happened?
Dumbledore didnt want Malfoy to become a murderer. Through his crying in the bathrooms, and agonizing over what he had gotten himself into all year, a spark of hope for him was visible. He is not one to kill lightheartedly, it was agonizing him, and he was emotional about it. However, if he had killed Dumbledore, he would have crossed that line, and would probably go on to kill again.
At least if it was arranged, Dumbledore died on his own terms- or as Harry had put it, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to death and walking into the arena with your head held high.
I find it interesting that Snape didnt say much to Dumbledore, which also leads to my belief that Snape and Dumbledore had an agreement. It seems like Snape would have otherwise said something, some sort of classic Villan About To Kill The Hero speech, or *something*, rather than only uttering the words of the curse. And when Harry was chasing after Snape and Malfoy, Snape just blocked Harry's curses, rather than attacking back.
Dumbledores choice to reveal so much to Harry this year, and to start the private lessons, leads me to believe that he knew his end was near, and he wanted to prepare Harry as much as possible for the time when he wouldnt be there.
Part of the reason I believe Snape is actually on the side of the Order is that we see all of his explanation to the Death Eaters, about why he acted in certain appear good while really being evil. What is left as a big mystery, though, is Dumbledores proof that Snape is instead appearing evil, while working for good. Something about leaving information out is usually a signal in JKR books that that information is extremely important. Why would she reveal that hes having these talks with Narcissa & Bellatrix at the very beginning of the book and ruin the shock of him being evil and killing Dumbledore at the end if he really is evil?
The main argument I have towards Snape possibly being evil stems from this book's focus on love. It is often mentioned how important love is, but Snape seems to be the only person on the "good" side (if he is) who is without love. I know there are a lot of theories that he loved Lily, but I'm hoping there's some deeper explanation about Snape and why he is the way he is in the future.
Im wondering if this will follow the framework of the other great stories of our time in which the mentor dies, only to come back in some more powerful form to help out in the end. Obi-Wan returns as a ghost, Gandalf comes back as Gandalf the White. The whole connection between Dumbledore and phoenixes, and the possible phoenix in the smoke at the funeral (and the fact that he burst into flames in the first place) all point towards a "rising form the ashes" kind of thing.
I doubt theres any coincidence at all that Harry got Snapes old potions book. My guess is that Dumbledore (or someone) knew that he needed to know these things, but that he was never going to learn them from Snapes class. However, by presenting the information in a form that was intriguing to Harry, and a little bit dangerous, Harry learned with ease.
So, are Dumbledores old memories still accessible in the Pensieve? I imagine Harry could learn a LOT there.
If you are at all familiar with tarot cards, you probably found the fact that the scene with Dumbledore and the Death Eaters took place in and leading up to the tower interesting. (ie the Tower Card)
So, Harry isnt planning to go back to Hogwarts next year, and yet Ron & Hermione are talking about sticking with him- I can see Ron dropping out, but not Hermione. So how is that going to work out?
I've been wondering if Harry's scar is somehow one of the horcruxes, and was surprised to see some other people online had the same idea. I'm pretty much giving up the theory though, because although Harry seems to have taken in some of Voldy's abilities, I don't think there's any of his soul in there.
R.A.B = Regulus Black, as pretty much everyone seems to agree on. My best guess is that the horcrux that Regulus had is now in the Black house, and therefore Harrys property. After coming to this conclusion, I read somewhere where someone had found mention of a locket in the Black house that nobody could open. Aha! It does seem strange that JKR threw in such obvious initials, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up *not* being Regulus. I think it would make for more interesting story if it were, though.
Off on a whooooooooole other topic- Whats up with the Lupin/Tonks thing? Seems like such a weird, unlikely couple to me, but probably just because I love Lupin, and dont really like Tonks. Same thing with the Bill/Fleur relationship! What does Bill see in her? Just...why?
And thus ends my poorly organized list of thoughts. I recommend a read-through of this post, which I found interesting. I'll add more links as I come across them.
First Re-read Additional Notes:
(I get incredibly nerdy and nitpicky here. You've been warned)
-The man in the painting in the muggle Prime Minister's office is described as "froglike". Umbridge was always described as toadlike- are they possibly related? And is the man a Prime Minister who was a wizard? Otherwise, who is he, and how did his painting get there? (We can assume the why-for communication and a bit of spying, but the who and the how make me wonder.)
-Just an observation, but the PM seems particularly freaked out by dragons. He reacts visibly to both mentions.
-Fudge says there will be an inquiry into Sirius's death. Some answers, maybe?
-If the dementors are gone, who/what is guarding Azkaban? And when Fudge talks of the dementors "breeding", does he mean that in the traditional sense, or a sort of asexual multiplication?
-Wizards don't get to vote for the Minister of Magic?
-JKR certainly uses a lot of similar R-names (Remus, Rubeous, Regulus, Rufus)
-When Bellatrix apparates in chapter 2, the pop that it makes is louder than Narcissa's. Does this mean anything?
-Why does Snape live here? Does he normally go there in the summer, or just this time? How does Narcissa know where he lives? Why is Wormtail living there?
-Snape asks "You think that he (Voldemort) is mistaken? Or that I have somehow hoodwinked him? Fooled the Dark Lord, the most accomplished Legilmens the world has ever seen?" This points out that one way or another, Snape is fooling an incredibly powerful wizard. Either Voldemort or Dumbledore is being decieved- I'd like to believe it's Voldemort.
-Snape says that Dumbledore's greatest weakness is that "he has to believe the best in people". "Has to" seems like an odd choice of words- Does Dumbledore really *have* to? Probably just a technicality, but it caught my attention.
-When Bella and Narcissa are at Snape's, does Snape really know the plan as he says he does, or is he just fishing for information? Snape mentions that if he can help Draco with the plan, he will be able to stay at Hogwarts as a spy- but if he's supposed to be there spying on Dumbledore, what would the point in staying to spy after the plan is carried out be?
-Scrimgeour is described many times as being lionlike. Is he related to Gryffindor, perhaps?
So, let's cover the whole Dumbledore/Snape thing first. First of all, I have to say that JKR crafted this book so artfully that both sides of the Snape case can be argued logically and intellectually, each with substantial backup and drawbacks. The way she wove the details leaves us all with our own guesses, but no solid answers. Beautifully done.
Sadly, Dumbledores death wasnt a big surprise to me. Ive believed for a while now that he would go in book 6 or 7, but I was still hoping to hang on to him for as long as possible, since hes always been a favorite. With all of the mentions of Harry being safe as long as Dumbledore is around, you know that there will eventually be a time when Harry is without him, and has to face things on his own.
I haven't made up my mind about all of the details yet, but I'm pretty sure that Snape and Dumbledore had an agreement for Snape to kill Dumbledore. I'm sure that DD knew about Snape's Unbreakable Vow to Narcissa, and rather than having Draco become a murderer, or having Snape die, Dumbledore chose this plan, possibly even having Snape agree to an unbreakable vow to him to carry through. That would explain the argument they had that Hagrid overheard.
Im pretty sure that the potion from the cave was going to kill Dumbledore slowly, and so having Snape kill him in front of the Death Eaters let Snape gain more credibility with them, as well as avoiding death because of his part in the Unbreakable Vow, while just speeding along the inevitable. The only thing I dont get, though, is why it wasnt possible to just dump out the goblets of the potion, instead of having to ingest them. It doesnt seem like they tried anything like that, but I may have missed it.
Next, if Dumbledore had died just from drinking the potion, Harry would have felt responsible, since (even though it was under Dumbledores orders), he was the one making him drink it. By having Snape kill him, Harry didnt have to blame himself.
I find it interesting that Dumbledore made it so that Harry couldn't move- obviously so that he wouldn't be seen and get hurt, most likely so that he wouldn't interfere with the plan, but possibly because he wanted Harry to bear witness to what happened?
Dumbledore didnt want Malfoy to become a murderer. Through his crying in the bathrooms, and agonizing over what he had gotten himself into all year, a spark of hope for him was visible. He is not one to kill lightheartedly, it was agonizing him, and he was emotional about it. However, if he had killed Dumbledore, he would have crossed that line, and would probably go on to kill again.
At least if it was arranged, Dumbledore died on his own terms- or as Harry had put it, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to death and walking into the arena with your head held high.
I find it interesting that Snape didnt say much to Dumbledore, which also leads to my belief that Snape and Dumbledore had an agreement. It seems like Snape would have otherwise said something, some sort of classic Villan About To Kill The Hero speech, or *something*, rather than only uttering the words of the curse. And when Harry was chasing after Snape and Malfoy, Snape just blocked Harry's curses, rather than attacking back.
Dumbledores choice to reveal so much to Harry this year, and to start the private lessons, leads me to believe that he knew his end was near, and he wanted to prepare Harry as much as possible for the time when he wouldnt be there.
Part of the reason I believe Snape is actually on the side of the Order is that we see all of his explanation to the Death Eaters, about why he acted in certain appear good while really being evil. What is left as a big mystery, though, is Dumbledores proof that Snape is instead appearing evil, while working for good. Something about leaving information out is usually a signal in JKR books that that information is extremely important. Why would she reveal that hes having these talks with Narcissa & Bellatrix at the very beginning of the book and ruin the shock of him being evil and killing Dumbledore at the end if he really is evil?
The main argument I have towards Snape possibly being evil stems from this book's focus on love. It is often mentioned how important love is, but Snape seems to be the only person on the "good" side (if he is) who is without love. I know there are a lot of theories that he loved Lily, but I'm hoping there's some deeper explanation about Snape and why he is the way he is in the future.
Im wondering if this will follow the framework of the other great stories of our time in which the mentor dies, only to come back in some more powerful form to help out in the end. Obi-Wan returns as a ghost, Gandalf comes back as Gandalf the White. The whole connection between Dumbledore and phoenixes, and the possible phoenix in the smoke at the funeral (and the fact that he burst into flames in the first place) all point towards a "rising form the ashes" kind of thing.
I doubt theres any coincidence at all that Harry got Snapes old potions book. My guess is that Dumbledore (or someone) knew that he needed to know these things, but that he was never going to learn them from Snapes class. However, by presenting the information in a form that was intriguing to Harry, and a little bit dangerous, Harry learned with ease.
So, are Dumbledores old memories still accessible in the Pensieve? I imagine Harry could learn a LOT there.
If you are at all familiar with tarot cards, you probably found the fact that the scene with Dumbledore and the Death Eaters took place in and leading up to the tower interesting. (ie the Tower Card)
So, Harry isnt planning to go back to Hogwarts next year, and yet Ron & Hermione are talking about sticking with him- I can see Ron dropping out, but not Hermione. So how is that going to work out?
I've been wondering if Harry's scar is somehow one of the horcruxes, and was surprised to see some other people online had the same idea. I'm pretty much giving up the theory though, because although Harry seems to have taken in some of Voldy's abilities, I don't think there's any of his soul in there.
R.A.B = Regulus Black, as pretty much everyone seems to agree on. My best guess is that the horcrux that Regulus had is now in the Black house, and therefore Harrys property. After coming to this conclusion, I read somewhere where someone had found mention of a locket in the Black house that nobody could open. Aha! It does seem strange that JKR threw in such obvious initials, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up *not* being Regulus. I think it would make for more interesting story if it were, though.
Off on a whooooooooole other topic- Whats up with the Lupin/Tonks thing? Seems like such a weird, unlikely couple to me, but probably just because I love Lupin, and dont really like Tonks. Same thing with the Bill/Fleur relationship! What does Bill see in her? Just...why?
And thus ends my poorly organized list of thoughts. I recommend a read-through of this post, which I found interesting. I'll add more links as I come across them.
First Re-read Additional Notes:
(I get incredibly nerdy and nitpicky here. You've been warned)
-The man in the painting in the muggle Prime Minister's office is described as "froglike". Umbridge was always described as toadlike- are they possibly related? And is the man a Prime Minister who was a wizard? Otherwise, who is he, and how did his painting get there? (We can assume the why-for communication and a bit of spying, but the who and the how make me wonder.)
-Just an observation, but the PM seems particularly freaked out by dragons. He reacts visibly to both mentions.
-Fudge says there will be an inquiry into Sirius's death. Some answers, maybe?
-If the dementors are gone, who/what is guarding Azkaban? And when Fudge talks of the dementors "breeding", does he mean that in the traditional sense, or a sort of asexual multiplication?
-Wizards don't get to vote for the Minister of Magic?
-JKR certainly uses a lot of similar R-names (Remus, Rubeous, Regulus, Rufus)
-When Bellatrix apparates in chapter 2, the pop that it makes is louder than Narcissa's. Does this mean anything?
-Why does Snape live here? Does he normally go there in the summer, or just this time? How does Narcissa know where he lives? Why is Wormtail living there?
-Snape asks "You think that he (Voldemort) is mistaken? Or that I have somehow hoodwinked him? Fooled the Dark Lord, the most accomplished Legilmens the world has ever seen?" This points out that one way or another, Snape is fooling an incredibly powerful wizard. Either Voldemort or Dumbledore is being decieved- I'd like to believe it's Voldemort.
-Snape says that Dumbledore's greatest weakness is that "he has to believe the best in people". "Has to" seems like an odd choice of words- Does Dumbledore really *have* to? Probably just a technicality, but it caught my attention.
-When Bella and Narcissa are at Snape's, does Snape really know the plan as he says he does, or is he just fishing for information? Snape mentions that if he can help Draco with the plan, he will be able to stay at Hogwarts as a spy- but if he's supposed to be there spying on Dumbledore, what would the point in staying to spy after the plan is carried out be?
-Scrimgeour is described many times as being lionlike. Is he related to Gryffindor, perhaps?
themelbob1190
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2005
- Messages
- 282
ohanafamily said:
If you go to Mugglenet.com and read the JKR interview (the link is posted above by someone else), JKR says something along the lines of Umbridge will be in the last book, because she's too much fun to torture...
andromedaslove
Mouseketeer<br><font color=green>Escorts pokey tur
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2004
- Messages
- 2,534
Just got done re-reading book three and came across something fairly interesting. Definatley made me think. At the end of PoA, Harry was feeling badly for letting Peter Pettigrew live and this is what dumbledore told him.
DD- "you did a very noble thing, in saving Pettigrew's life."
HP- "But if he helps Voldemort back to power -!"
DD- "Pettigrew owers his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt......When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... and I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter."
HP- "I don't weant a connection with Pettigrew!" said Harry. "He betrayed my parents!"
DD- "This is magic at its deeptest, its most impenetrable, Harry. But trust me ... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
Later in this same conversation, another interesting point.
HP- "I thought it was my dad who'd conjured my Patronus. I mean when I saw myself across the lake... I thought I was seeing him.
DD- " An easy mistake to make," said Dumbledore softly, I expect you'll tire of hearing it, but you do look extraordinarily like James. Except for the eyes... you have your mother's eyes."
HP- "It was stupid, thinking it was him," he muttered. "I mean, I knew he was dead."
DD- "You think the dead we loved ever truly leave us? You think that we don't recall them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble? Your father is alive in you, Harry, and shows himself most plainly when you have need of him. How else could you produce that particular Patronus. Prongs rode again last night."
Not that I thought that DD wouldn't be there in some capacity to help HP, but this definately reaffirms it. Also looks like we may have to count on Pettigrew making a pretty big appearance next book. Like I said something to think about.
Dana
DD- "you did a very noble thing, in saving Pettigrew's life."
HP- "But if he helps Voldemort back to power -!"
DD- "Pettigrew owers his life to you. You have sent Voldemort a deputy who is in your debt......When one wizard saves another wizard's life, it creates a certain bond between them... and I'm much mistaken if Voldemort wants his servant in the debt of Harry Potter."
HP- "I don't weant a connection with Pettigrew!" said Harry. "He betrayed my parents!"
DD- "This is magic at its deeptest, its most impenetrable, Harry. But trust me ... the time may come when you will be very glad you saved Pettigrew's life."
Later in this same conversation, another interesting point.
HP- "I thought it was my dad who'd conjured my Patronus. I mean when I saw myself across the lake... I thought I was seeing him.
DD- " An easy mistake to make," said Dumbledore softly, I expect you'll tire of hearing it, but you do look extraordinarily like James. Except for the eyes... you have your mother's eyes."
HP- "It was stupid, thinking it was him," he muttered. "I mean, I knew he was dead."
DD- "You think the dead we loved ever truly leave us? You think that we don't recall them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble? Your father is alive in you, Harry, and shows himself most plainly when you have need of him. How else could you produce that particular Patronus. Prongs rode again last night."
Not that I thought that DD wouldn't be there in some capacity to help HP, but this definately reaffirms it. Also looks like we may have to count on Pettigrew making a pretty big appearance next book. Like I said something to think about.
Dana
ophie
<font color=teal>I've got color<br><font color=red
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2005
- Messages
- 4,339
I've been waiting for him to show up again. That was one of my big questions after OotP... where was Wormtail?? Did Voldemort realize that he owed Harry a life debt and get rid of him? Evidently not, as Wormtail was at Snape's house as a helper. But the question still remains. How will this "llife debt" play out? Wormtail has already shirked this responsibility once at the end of GoF when he not only avoided helping Harry but actually participated in the set up, capture, injury... I'll definitely be interested to see the resolution.andromedaslove said:
barbeml
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2002
- Messages
- 5,422
So who else is already back to book one and re-reading the entire series? Each book makes me realize how many details I am missing or not retaining (perhaps because of the long gaps between), so I am re-reading the whole lot one after the other for the rest of the summer (while reading Stranger in a Strange Land, too!)
andromedaslove
Mouseketeer<br><font color=green>Escorts pokey tur
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2004
- Messages
- 2,534
I am definately re-reading the entire series. As I said in my previous post I just finished POA, and tonight I will start on GOF. There are some things that I really noticed that I had missed before.
Dana
Dana
Figment22
Hulk, MIB and MLB Fan!
- Joined
- May 21, 2000
- Messages
- 5,426
I can't claim credit for this idea as it was posted by someone on another forum I frequent. Here's a SCARY thought: Could Ginny Weasley be a horcrux? Harry would have to kill Ginny to get to Voldemort. It certainly makes some sense but would JKR be that twisted???
ophie
<font color=teal>I've got color<br><font color=red
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2005
- Messages
- 4,339
JKR's already said that Ginny has no remaining connection with Voldemort. Also, she hasn't been near him when he's killed anyone. And, DD said it was extremely inadvisable to use a living being as a Horcrux. So there's no way Voldemort would have 2 livings ones. It's too dangerous.Figment22 said:
From the Emerson and Melissa interview ...
OK - so what are your theories on what Dumbledore's boggart would be?
I am rereading book 6, so I am going to have to pay closer attention. But, I'd love to hear what the rest of you think!
Warmly,
Daxx's Wife
OK - so what are your theories on what Dumbledore's boggart would be?
I am rereading book 6, so I am going to have to pay closer attention. But, I'd love to hear what the rest of you think!
Warmly,
Daxx's Wife
ophie
<font color=teal>I've got color<br><font color=red
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2005
- Messages
- 4,339
Daxx said:
I think it's from the cave scene... when he's drinking the potion. It's the only time Harry's ever seen DD frightened. (well, except in the MoM in OotP when he thought Voldemort was going to possess Harry).
-
'Akashic Memory' New to Morimoto Asia's Cocktail List at Disney Springs
-
Disneyland Chili Recipe To Bring a Taste of the Park Home
-
Don't Miss Summer House on the Lake's 'Martini Hour' at Disney Springs
-
Should EPCOT Add More Diversity to World Showcase?
-
New Disney x LEGO Princess Castle & Royal Pets Set!
-
New Neon Merch Collection Celebrates Universal Studios Florida's 35th Year
-
Phineas & Ferb Meet and Greet Returns to Disney World & Disneyland
New Threads
- Poll
Save Up to 30% on Rooms at Walt Disney World!
Save up to 30% on rooms at select Disney Resorts Collection hotels when you stay 5 consecutive nights or longer in late summer and early fall. Plus, enjoy other savings for shorter stays.This offer is valid for stays most nights from August 1 to October 11, 2025.
CLICK HERE
