Hand sanitizer worries?

[snowman]

I noticed a sign in the office at Scout camp that says children should not use hand sanitizers such as Purell because it has been known to cause alcohol poisoning. Has anybody else heard of this? Is it perhaps merely an urban legend that Scout Camp has taken to heart?

 

[piraterose]

According to Snopes (great place for info on urban myths), it's true that ingestion of hand sanitizers by children can cause alcohol poisoning. Heres the article:

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/sanitizer.asp

 

[DawnM]

I wonder how much needs to be ingested? I don't really get how just licking your hands after putting it on would cause that.

Dawn

 

[Merriwind]

I thought I read somewhere (maybe in the Snopes info) that it would require ingestion of about an ounce of hand sanitizer to cause problems. That would reqire a good bit of time alone with the hand sanitizer to get that much out and eat it. An ounce of liquid soap wouldn't poison, but sure would make kids very sick too. If your kids are very young, they really need supervision whether using soap or hand sanitizer to clean their hands.

Yuck! Can you imagine drinking that much hand sanitizer? I'm sure it tastes terrible.

 

[snowman]

After reading snopes it seems that the amount needed depends on the child (body weight, etc). Which could explain why only small amounts are needed...a 100 lb adult usually feels the effects of a beer faster than a 200 lb adult.

Hopefully most of the boys at Scout camp won't start drinking hand sanitizer...maybe they'll stick to spraying bug spray on their hands and then setting it on fire.... (yes, one of the boys in Carl's troop did that last week while they were at camp...idiot)

 

[Princess Roo]

A small child licking their hands after it has been at least mostly rubbed in will not have a problem. Licking the whole "dollop" off at once CAN cause a problem for a small child. I think it's best to treat it like a cleaning supply and keep out of reach of unsupervised children. As an earlier poster mentioned, the same thing is actually true for all soap/shampoo, but to a lesser degree.

Interestingly, I just found out today that my child's daycare got written up for having soap within the reach of toddlers. According to the state, it is supposed to be dispensed to each child individually by the caregiver and then put out of reach. Not sure how I feel about that when they are trying to get all the kids through the potty and washing their hands! At home, I do trust DS with the soap.

My personal opinion is that a child would be disgusted by the taste of soap before they could eat enough to do more than make them vomit, while with the hand sanitizer that first taste could cause more serious problems.

 

[lil_ragamuffins]

I noticed a sign in the office at Scout camp that says children should not use hand sanitizers such as Purell because it has been known to cause alcohol poisoning. Has anybody else heard of this? Is it perhaps merely an urban legend that Scout Camp has taken to heart?

One of my little ones actually grabbed a bottle out of my diaper bag a few years back when I momentarily left the room and actually ingested about 1/4 to 1/2 oz.. I called poison control immediately and they just told me to have him drink water and to watch him closely, but that there was no immediate concern. Apparently it's made from ethyl alcohol (very concentrated alcohol). I would *think* that licking hands probably wouldn't be too big of a deal, but who knows???

 

[northriver]

I think I read the initail report of alcohol poisoning was school age children ingesting it intentionally to get a buzz. At my son's last school the had a dispenser on the wall so the kids could get quite a large amount if the were trying to do this.

As for my toddler, I prefer to use WetOnes antibacterial wipes instead. I just feel like the get off the actual debris that sticks to her as well as sanatize. I can also use them to clean shopping carts, highchairs and tables.

 

[dementia412]

Well it's not a good idea to use that stuff too much anyway, because it kills just as many good bacteria as the bad and helps the bacteria to get stronger... like we need them to get worse. Washing hands it far better, those other products should only be used when normal hand washing is not available. I know one woman who must spend hundreds of dollars each month on the stuff. Every time she walks into a room, she wipes down everything in her area, then uses that stuff on her hands... she stinks, and it's probably why she keeps getting sick. It also dries the living crud out of your hands!

 

[Colinsmom]

Well it's not a good idea to use that stuff too much anyway, because it kills just as many good bacteria as the bad and helps the bacteria to get stronger... like we need them to get worse.

Those problems (may or may not) relate to the use of antibiotics and antibacterial soap. The hand sanitizers being discussed use plain old alcohol to kill bacteria which does NOT lead to bacterial resistance. A linky, but excuse the scientific mumbo jumbo:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414385_print

 

[Merriwind]

Those problems (may or may not) relate to the use of antibiotics and antibacterial soap. The hand sanitizers being discussed use plain old alcohol to kill bacteria which does NOT lead to bacterial resistance. A linky, but excuse the scientific mumbo jumbo:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414385_print

Absolutely right. The CDC recommends the use of hand sanitizers and hospitals have them lining the hallways. They contain a lot of alcohol (and no antibiotics) to clean our skin, which acts as a physical barrier to infection.

 

[GoofyTraci]

I think I read the initail report of alcohol poisoning was school age children ingesting it intentionally to get a buzz. At my son's last school the had a dispenser on the wall so the kids could get quite a large amount if the were trying to do this.

As for my toddler, I prefer to use WetOnes antibacterial wipes instead. I just feel like the get off the actual debris that sticks to her as well as sanatize. I can also use them to clean shopping carts, highchairs and tables.

i also use the wetones wipes and alos bring them to disney with us. i dont use the gel. It is not a urban legend. there have been many stories of these .

 

[WantToGoNow]

It is true - but the sanitizer is used by my kids are standing there. I watch them rub it into their hands. I would definitely stopped them if they started to lick it instead.

 

[SqueakyMouse]

Washing well with antibacterial soap is better than using hand santizer. However, hand sanitizer is far better than not washing hands at all and very convenient when soap and water may not be.

 

[SueM in MN]

Originally Posted by Colinsmom
Those problems (may or may not) relate to the use of antibiotics and antibacterial soap. The hand sanitizers being discussed use plain old alcohol to kill bacteria which does NOT lead to bacterial resistance. A linky, but excuse the scientific mumbo jumbo:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414385_print

Absolutely right. The CDC recommends the use of hand sanitizers and hospitals have them lining the hallways. They contain a lot of alcohol (and no antibiotics) to clean our skin, which acts as a physical barrier to infection.

One of the reasons that hospitals use the alcohol sanitizers is that, in gerneal, they kill germs better than soap and water. Also, because health care workers clean their hands many times a day, soap and water dried them out too much. Studies have shown that most health care workers' hand will be in better condition after using alcohol sanitizers than soap and water.

Washing well with antibacterial soap is better than using hand santizer. However, hand sanitizer is far better than not washing hands at all and very convenient when soap and water may not be.

One of the concerns about use of antibacterial soaps is that they work against germs the same way that antibiotics do. They very likely are contributing to antibiotic resistance in germs.
Alcohol has been used for many, many years and no resistance to alcohol has been seen.

 

[jagafen]

Well it's not a good idea to use that stuff too much anyway, because it kills just as many good bacteria as the bad and helps the bacteria to get stronger... like we need them to get worse. Washing hands it far better, those other products should only be used when normal hand washing is not available. I know one woman who must spend hundreds of dollars each month on the stuff. Every time she walks into a room, she wipes down everything in her area, then uses that stuff on her hands... she stinks, and it's probably why she keeps getting sick. It also dries the living crud out of your hands!

I am Anti-hand-santizer for all of these reasons! My 4 year old has no idea what this stuff is! Just think about this the next time you use it (especially if you're an over-user!) All of that alcohol is terribly drying to your skin, and causes microscopic cracks in the skin barrier...allowing portal to the germs you are trying to kill!! I believe in the "dirty" method of ensuring my son's health. We don't use antibacterial ANYTHING. The only way to insure a healthy immune system is to be exposed to germs naturally in the environment! You build immunity by being exposed to everyday, naturally occurring "stuff". Now, I don't have him rub his face and hands all over the nearest sick kid....but I don't go "out of my way" to prevent germs and naturally occurring itty-bittys from coming in contact with my man cub!

 

[Girly_Qs]

One of the concerns about use of antibacterial soaps is that they work against germs the same way that antibiotics do. They very likely are contributing to antibiotic resistance in germs.

True - in theory.

In practice, antibacterial soaps must be used for 7 minutes (yep - 7 whole minutes) to be truly "antibacterial." Since most people don't even wash their hands for the recommended 30 seconds that we're 'supposed' to, it's not really an issue. So, really antibacterial soaps don't really do anything more (for good or bad) than regular soap.

That said, we wash when a sink/soap are handy. We use sanitizer when it's not. I supervise my kids use of sanitizer, but the alcohol is only an issue while it's in liquid/gel form (it evaporates as it dries) - thus the stories of children licking their hands hours later and having "85%" blood-alcohol levels (yes, that's what my scare-tactic spam email said) are utterly fabricated.

 

[Zoesmama03]

I think its true that kids should not have access to putting it on themselves but if a parent is rubbing it in or making sure they get it all rubbed in it wouldn't be a problem.

With the 2 year old in the reports, I mean come on she left her alone, not that my dd didn't play alone but never on a seperate floor.

I don't think licking a hand will do it unless like I was saying the kid put it on himself with way more than was needed and curiousity had him licking it. But if they are watched careful around it no shouldn't be any problems or worries.

I've used it sometimes on my dd but I make sure its rubbed in and she doesn't have it in her reach.

 

[SueM in MN]

True - in theory.

In practice, antibacterial soaps must be used for 7 minutes (yep - 7 whole minutes) to be truly "antibacterial." Since most people don't even wash their hands for the recommended 30 seconds that we're 'supposed' to, it's not really an issue. So, really antibacterial soaps don't really do anything more (for good or bad) than regular soap.

I'm curious for a reference for the 7 minutes.
I have never seen that; most surgical hand scrubs are only for 2-6 minutes and the recommended amount of time for scrubbing hands during hand washing for health care workers is at least 15 seconds. (according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention).

Part of the concern is that the antibacterial soaps are not killing all the germs. They are killing off the easy to kill germs and what is left is the germs that are harder to kill off. Because they are getting a 'non-lethal' dose of antibacterial soap, they have enough exposure to develop defenses to it.

 

[Girly_Qs]

I'm curious for a reference for the 7 minutes.
I have never seen that; most surgical hand scrubs are only for 2-6 minutes and the recommended amount of time for scrubbing hands during hand washing for health care workers is at least 15 seconds. (according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention).

Part of the concern is that the antibacterial soaps are not killing all the germs. They are killing off the easy to kill germs and what is left is the germs that are harder to kill off. Because they are getting a 'non-lethal' dose of antibacterial soap, they have enough exposure to develop defenses to it.

Exactly.

You don't have to wash your hands for 7 minutes to have them truly clean. However, for the "antibacterial" component of "antibacterial" soaps to work it must be in contact with those bacteria for 7 minutes. Basically, a good handwashing with "antibacterial" soap does *nothing* more than a good handwashing with 'regular' soap. Thus, they're not making your hands any cleaner (nor, however, are they at much risk of creating any "superbugs").

As for a source - I'll have to work at something concrete to cite, I can't link to my bff (who happens to be a microbiologist with the CDC!).