H1N1 vaccine - has your child gotten it yet?

[C.Ann]

It really scares me now that they are reporting that 50 percent of those that have died of H1N1 had no underlying medical conditions.

At times I have to wonder if it might be even higher than that - especially when they consider a normal, healthy pregnancy an "underlying medical condition"..

 

[Geoff_M]

At times I have to wonder if it might be even higher than that - especially when they consider a normal, healthy pregnancy an "underlying medical condition"..

I will say that you have to take some of this (discussions of lethality, etc.) with a grain of salt. Remember that a vast majority of people that contract N1H1 are never hospitalized, and others never even see a doctor. However, I do think that this is nastier than your-average-bug.

Right now a yet to be ID'ed "flu-like" illness has stricken a number of our 10-year old's travel hockey teammates in the last couple of days. Team families got this e-mail from a mom last night at 3:14 AM:

(Kid's Name) has the fever too but it escalated into trouble breathing. We are in the e.r. and he has had a breathing treatment which has helped. He is sleeping now (wish I could say the same) and we will stay here for awhile so they can watch him. Needless to say he won't be at practice on Thur.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

The player in question is probably the best overall athlete on the team. We've been to the ER with a child with breathing problems (#1 had asthma at a young age), and that's a scary trip to the ER. N1H1, or seasonal, there's some ugly viruses making the rounds.

 

[LisaR]

Quite frankly, if you were my friend and I expressed the sentiment to you that I felt that it was best for my children that they play in traffic or that they should never wear seat belts... I would hope that you would do the right thing and point out my "stupidity" to me. You might not use that word precisely and be a bit more tactful in doing so, but would hope that you would not just blindly assume that anything that I honestly thought was OK for my kids was automatically beyond reproach.

As for the N1H1 vaccine, yes, the fact that polls have shown that 2/3rds of parents surveyed said that they would hold off giving their kids the "new" vaccine, while most of them have no qualms about giving them the equally "new" annual seasonal flu vaccine DOES clearly demonstrate a lack of knowledge on the subject.

And for the record I certainly acknowledge that there are children and adults that shouldn't get this vaccine, or others. But that's based on medical contraindications and not using Google as your primary research tool.

You know what I find interesting about this conversation? Some of you that are in favor of this vaccine have made some very interesting assumptions. The assumption is that if you are against this vaccine, you have gotten all of your information from google, unreliable resources or you are just pulling the information out of your........hat. However, if you are at the front of the line for this vaccine, it is assumed that you are all knowledgeable. Anyone in favor of the the shot has shunned google, talks personally to members of the CDC and drug manufacturers and is an all around more informed person. To that I say.....

I haven't talked to a single person that is going to get the vaccine that doesn't have major trepidations. I also haven't talked to a single person that has opted out that doesn't question their decision. I have to wonder about the person that is 120% confident in their choice and isn't even the slightest bit concerned that they have chosen the right/wrong option.

 

[Geoff_M]

You know what I find interesting about this conversation? Some of you that are in favor of this vaccine have made some very interesting assumptions. The assumption is that if you are against this vaccine, you have gotten all of your information from google, unreliable resources or you are just pulling the information out of your........hat.

I think that my sentence prior to the one you highlighted undercuts your thesis. It is certainly possible to reach the conclusion that your child should not receive this vaccine without being misinformed.

As for the rest of your assertion, I'll pose the question to you and see what your informed research has found. On what basis should a parent have "major trepidations" about the new N1H1 vaccine but not have similar fears about the equally new and equally "untested" A/Brisbane/59/2007, A/Brisbane/10/2007, and B/Brisbane/60/2008 vaccine (AKA "The 2009 Flu Vaccine")???

 

[Enchanted_Mama]

my girls (7 and 3) got the nasal mist on Tuesday. They need to go back in 3-4 weeks for a second one. I am getting mine today.

They will be getting their seasonal flu shots in two weeks.

 

[monkeybug]

You know what I find interesting about this conversation? Some of you that are in favor of this vaccine have made some very interesting assumptions. The assumption is that if you are against this vaccine, you have gotten all of your information from google, unreliable resources or you are just pulling the information out of your........hat. However, if you are at the front of the line for this vaccine, it is assumed that you are all knowledgeable. Anyone in favor of the the shot has shunned google, talks personally to members of the CDC and drug manufacturers and is an all around more informed person. To that I say.....

I haven't talked to a single person that is going to get the vaccine that doesn't have major trepidations. I also haven't talked to a single person that has opted out that doesn't question their decision. I have to wonder about the person that is 120% confident in their choice and isn't even the slightest bit concerned that they have chosen the right/wrong option.

I was 120% confident in my decision to vaccinate my family. My trepidation came from choosing between getting the mist now or just waiting awhile from the shot. I had no qualms about the shot at all (signed my kids up for the trial and was on the waiting list.) I was leery of the mist because it is a weakened live virus, and none of us have ever received a mist vaccine before. It ended up being fine. I am very confident in vaccines in general.
I also don't get my information from google (well actually I did google "CDC" and "WHO")
I got my information from the CDC, WHO, my local Health department, and directly from my family doctor. I have no medical background and I trust the doctors and scientists working for these agency's, and believe they really do have our best interest at heart.I have to assume that with all their medical training and experience they know a thing or two more than this curious housewife.
I also don't think that those who choose not to vaccinate are only relying on google for their information. I am sure there are lot's of reputable sources they turn to for their research. I have a good friend who has a little girl with Autism. She chooses not to vaccinate after her research and I respect that choice. I know she came to it after hours of careful thought and research.
In the end we all have to put our trust somewhere because none of us knows everything. It's all about who we are the most comfortable trusting.

 

[LisaR]

I think that my sentence prior to the one you highlighted undercuts your thesis. It is certainly possible to reach the conclusion that your child should not receive this vaccine without being misinformed.

As for the rest of your assertion, I'll pose the question to you and see what your informed research has found. On what basis should a parent have "major trepidations" about the new N1H1 vaccine but not have similar fears about the equally new and equally "untested" A/Brisbane/59/2007, A/Brisbane/10/2007, and B/Brisbane/60/2008 vaccine (AKA "The 2009 Flu Vaccine")???

How can I answer that? How in the heck would I know what other people are thinking? The fact is, there are people out there that are getting the H1N1 vaccine without ANY information. It is something they were told they should get and they are. Plain and simple. No research. It is also a fact that there are those out there that are not getting the vaccine that fall into the exact same category. No real reason. No real research.

There are also those that feel they have researched to the best of their ability and come to a decision. I can't answer as to whether they have checked the correct sources or made the best decision. I don't hold the crystal ball.

I could care less what people decide to do. I just take issue with the fact that a few on this thread seem to feel if you have decided to get the vaccine, it is because you are smart and well informed. If you have decided against it, you are stupid and only know how to google.

I am off to activities for the day, least you think I am ignoring you. But honestly, I don't have much more to say. I just wish the superiority complex would leave this thread but it is the Dis so I won't hold my breath.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

Our Pediatrician has it in, and our 2 teens will be getting it next week. The schools are suppose to offer it, but they have no idea "when" and I am not leaving my kids health up to them. I will have a $15 copay for the administration.

My kids have done fine with seasonal flu shots for the past decade. I would hate for them to miss a week of High school and College. That is the norm that teens are missing around here. Plus my kids have had pneumonia and bronchitis as secondary infections. Not fun!

 

[sersee05]

I am in NJ and we don't have the vaccination yet. I am so torn..I hear both sides..and the entire thing is scary to me. My 5 year old son has asthma and ends up in the hospital every year in Feb with pneumonia..due to his asthma complicating things. I started getting him the flu vaccine again last year...and it was the first time he didn't end up in the hospital. He did get ill and it flared up the asthma..but it never turned into pneumonia.

I got him his flu shot this year. I don't want to get into the vaccination debate. I believe in vaccinations and personally have never had any problems with any of my three kids. Does that mean it doesn't happen? Not necessarily..but for my family we haven't had issues.

I think both sides have great points but it makes me even more confused. ..Do I chance the vaccination or do I chance swine flu killing my son? I feel like I have a gun with one bullet in it...

I spoke with my pediatrician this morning..and he told me he would vaccinate his kids and the head of the practice is making his college aged daughter get it..He explained to me that the base is the flu vaccine..and they didn't add anything to it..He told me that it goes through the same trials and processes as the flu vaccine...so for me, It made me more comfortable with choosing to get it. I agree you kind of base a lot of the decision in who you trust..

So as of now, I am going to get the vaccination..I am sure my mind will change many different times..I am just frustrated that we don't have it yet. I feel like they should give it before it gets bad here. I don't know exactly how the government is choosing to distribute it.

I know they are going after certain groups...my son is one of the first in line..I heard the nasal one will be here in a couple weeks..but that leaves out all the high risk kids with asthma(and probably other groups as well)..which doesn't make a lot of sense..Is there a reason they are releasing the shot much later?

 

[2bearsmom]

I can only speak for myself of course, but my dh and I are 120% confident that we are doing the right thing by not vaccinating ourselves or our children. I think if I was a more fearful person, getting wrapped up in all the media hype and what I call scare tactics, then I might not be so confident in my decision, I might let that fear of what if...come into play. For us, what we have learned about vaccinating, we are not comfortable with the possible side effects from them, either immediate or some which may not show up for years, to go ahead.

I really don't know why everyone that is pro-vaccination is so quick to attack those that aren't. I mean we all have done our research and we are all doing what we think is best. We're just putting the info out there for all to see, just like those that are pro-vaccination are putting up all "their" info. Do with the information what you want, just don't call me an uncaring parent based on what I choose to do. I'm open minded enough to read what the doctors/government have to say about getting the vaccine, that doesn't mean I will do it just because they say so. Those that aren't pro-vaccination aren't running our mouths off saying what terrible parents those are that do vaccinate.

 

[C.Ann]

I can only speak for myself of course, but my dh and I are 120% confident that we are doing the right thing by not vaccinating ourselves or our children. I think if I was a more fearful person, getting wrapped up in all the media hype and what I call scare tactics, then I might not be so confident in my decision, I might let that fear of what if...come into play. For us, what we have learned about vaccinating, we are not comfortable with the possible side effects from them, either immediate or some which may not show up for years, to go ahead.

I really don't know why everyone that is pro-vaccination is so quick to attack those that aren't. I mean we all have done our research and we are all doing what we think is best. We're just putting the info out there for all to see, just like those that are pro-vaccination are putting up all "their" info. Do with the information what you want, just don't call me an uncaring parent based on what I choose to do. I'm open minded enough to read what the doctors/government have to say about getting the vaccine, that doesn't mean I will do it just because they say so. Those that aren't pro-vaccination aren't running our mouths off saying what terrible parents those are that do vaccinate.

I think it is the inflammatory comments - such as the part of your thread I have bolded - that tends to get under other peoples skin.. If you re-read it - and think carefully about what you posted - it's no different than saying the pro-vaccination folks have based their decisions on nothing more than "scare tactics and media hype".. Everyone is doing their research - speaking with their doctors and other healthcare professionals - trying to make a very difficult decision - and to imply that people are only responding to "scare tactics and media hype" is quite condescending..

A simple - "We have made a personal decision not to vaccinate our family.." - would go a long way in terms of not turning this question into a controversy..

 

[monkeybug]

I think it is the inflammatory comments - such as the part of your thread I have bolded - that tends to get under other peoples skin.. If you re-read it - and think carefully about what you posted - it's no different than saying the pro-vaccination folks have based their decisions on nothing more than "scare tactics and media hype".. Everyone is doing their research - speaking with their doctors and other healthcare professionals - trying to make a very difficult decision - and to imply that people are only responding to "scare tactics and media hype" is quite condescending..

A simple - "We have made a personal decision not to vaccinate our family.." - would go a long way in terms of not turning this question into a controversy..

 

[2bearsmom]

Sorry, I just don't agree, I didn't mean it like how you took it. The media has a lot of pull and they love reporting certain kinds of stories. I have yet to hear on the news about how many people have survived the H1N1 virus, but I sure do hear about the deaths or the seriously ill. I'm sure many pro-vaccinators out there aren't just fearful people, they vaccinate because they think that is the right thing to do and it will keep their families from getting ill. I'm sure a lot though do believe what the media has to say and may vaccinate based on that.

 

[monkeybug]

Sorry, I just don't agree, I didn't mean it like how you took it. The media has a lot of pull and they love reporting certain kinds of stories. I have yet to hear on the news about how many people have survived the H1N1 virus, but I sure do hear about the deaths or the seriously ill. I'm sure many pro-vaccinators out there aren't just fearful people, they vaccinate because they think that is the right thing to do and it will keep their families from getting ill. I'm sure a lot though do believe what the media has to say and may vaccinate based on that.

I understand what you are saying. The vast majority of people infected will recover with out even needing to see a Dr., the media over hypes each serious case, and many parents are more scared of this virus than they probably ought to be, but on the flip side the media isn't making those deaths up, and the fact that the chances of a healthy child dyeing are minimal would be little comfort to the parent who loses their healthy child. Parents who are scared have a right to be so, and I don't think that is a bad reason for them to vaccinate their children. I vaccinate my children against seasonal flu, and now h1n1 because I am fearful of the risks from influenza (even though they are unlikely) and for me personally those risks out weigh the risks of vaccination.

 

[runwad]

I understand what you are saying. The vast majority of people infected will recover with out even needing to see a Dr., the media over hypes each serious case, and many parents are more scared of this virus than they probably ought to be, but on the flip side the media isn't making those deaths up, and the fact that the chances of a healthy child dyeing are minimal would be little comfort to the parent who loses their healthy child. Parents who are scared have a right to be so, and I don't think that is a bad reason for them to vaccinate their children. I vaccinate my children against seasonal flu, and now h1n1 because I am fearful of the risks from influenza (even though they are unlikely) and for me personally those risks out weigh the risks of vaccination.

This is me, I keep flip flopping on what we'll do. One part of me thinks let the kids get it and hopefully get a mild case and build up their own anti-bodies. But what if? Geez I hate being a parent and making these decisions for my kids. What really scares me is next year, if we don't get a handle on this virus and somehow it mutates into something worse that we can't vaccinate against. Would it be better to let them get it this year to have some antibodies. I only want to do whats right but there is so much conflicting information out there and who is to know who is truly reputable and who is not? And not that reputable ones aren't being truthful maybe they just don't know everything that can happen. This is hard and a scary decision to make. All who are confident in their decision, I envy you.

 

[C.Ann]

All who are confident in their decision, I envy you.

I think there are very few of us who are 100% confident - in either direction.. We're all just trying to make the best decision we can based on the information we have..

My biggest concern is for my DGD, my DD, and her DH - who are right in that "target" age group of those healthy people without underlying health issues who have died from this flu..

Then I was sitting here wondering what I would do if I were much, much younger and expecting my first child.. Since pregnant women are at the very top of the priority list for needing this vaccine, I wonder what I would do? In all honesty, I can't tell you..

 

[monkeybug]

This is me, I keep flip flopping on what we'll do. One part of me thinks let the kids get it and hopefully get a mild case and build up their own anti-bodies. But what if? Geez I hate being a parent and making these decisions for my kids. What really scares me is next year, if we don't get a handle on this virus and somehow it mutates into something worse that we can't vaccinate against. Would it be better to let them get it this year to have some antibodies. I only want to do whats right but there is so much conflicting information out there and who is to know who is truly reputable and who is not? And not that reputable ones aren't being truthful maybe they just don't know everything that can happen. This is hard and a scary decision to make. All who are confident in their decision, I envy you.

The fact is that nobody in either camp knows enough to know everything that could possibly happen. For me I looked at the data available, weighed the risk, talked to my family physician, and came to the conclusion that the risk from vaccine was exceedingly small in comparison to the flu.
The vast majority of reputable research shows that vaccine is a safe and effective way of preventing serious disease. Looking at the facts and wading past the hysteria, and misinformation made this decision really easy for me. I recommend making a list of the things you are concerned with about the vaccine and the flu. Then find the answers to those questions and see where you feel the real risk lies.
Some of the information I found that helped me was
The vaccine was manufactured in the same way that the seasonal vaccine is.
It was tested first in adults and then in children and found to have a similar safety record as the seasonal flu vaccine
It is available in Thermisal free
The US is not currently using any vaccine with adjuvants
The flu vaccine is always made up of different strains of influenza, the h1n1 vaccine is the same except it is made with only the h1n1 strain. It likely would have been included in the seasonal vaccine if more information had been available earlier on.
The flu mist is made so that the virus can not live in the warmer areas of the body such as the lungs and bronchial tubes.
The flu mist is Thermisal free

 

[AndyLL]

I can only speak for myself of course, but my dh and I are 120% confident that we are doing the right thing by not vaccinating ourselves or our children. I think if I was a more fearful person, getting wrapped up in all the media hype and what I call scare tactics, then I might not be so confident in my decision, I might let that fear of what if...come into play. For us, what we have learned about vaccinating, we are not comfortable with the possible side effects from them, either immediate or some which may not show up for years, to go ahead.

I really don't know why everyone that is pro-vaccination is so quick to attack those that aren't. I mean we all have done our research and we are all doing what we think is best. We're just putting the info out there for all to see, just like those that are pro-vaccination are putting up all "their" info. Do with the information what you want, just don't call me an uncaring parent based on what I choose to do. I'm open minded enough to read what the doctors/government have to say about getting the vaccine, that doesn't mean I will do it just because they say so. Those that aren't pro-vaccination aren't running our mouths off saying what terrible parents those are that do vaccinate.

Lets see.

From this thread by the anit-vaccine folks:

1) H1N1 is to new and therefore unsafe. - Not true. (Scare tactic)
2) H1N1 was rushed and therefore unsafe. - Not true. (Scare tactic)
3) Adjuvant squalene is added therefore unsafe - Not true. (Scare tactic)
4) Contains unsafe levels of mercury - Not true. Kids vac. contain no mercury now. (Scare tactic)
5) The confusion about 1 or 2 shots, the mist, ect means its unsafe. (Scare tactic)

From this thread by the pro-vaccine folks:

1) H1N1 is as safe as the regular flu vaccine. Not a scare tactic because it is a regular flu vaccine.

2) H1N1 is deadlier then the regular flu and the deadliness affects non-traditional groups. Not a scare tactic because the numbers back it up.

3) Putting a kid in a car is more risky then giving a kid a vaccine. Not a scare tactic because the numbers back it up.

Sorry... but scary facts are not scare tactics like you imply when the scary facts can be proven facts.

Scare tactics are using false or misleading statements like you did with the squalene fear mongering.

So which side in the debate on this topic is using fear mongering?

Andy

 

[sersee05]

I'm sure a lot though do believe what the media has to say and may vaccinate based on that.

This also could be said about people who don't choose to vaccinate. ..since the media also runs stories about problems with vaccines. I agree the Media loves a story...and yes they do not announce how many people have lived from it probably because that isn't newsworthy. But the fact is children are dying..and yes that is scary. Am I vaccinating because I am fearful my child will get this swine flu? Yes . Of course that is the reason..and in my opinion I have something to be fearful of..But I think it goes both ways. Why are you not vaccinating? Because your "fearful" of the side effects or what the vaccine can do ...

 

[Geoff_M]

I really don't know why everyone that is pro-vaccination is so quick to attack those that aren't. I mean we all have done our research and we are all doing what we think is best. We're just putting the info out there for all to see, just like those that are pro-vaccination are putting up all "their" info. Do with the information what you want, just don't call me an uncaring parent based on what I choose to do. I'm open minded enough to read what the doctors/government have to say about getting the vaccine, that doesn't mean I will do it just because they say so. Those that aren't pro-vaccination aren't running our mouths off saying what terrible parents those are that do vaccinate.

I personally don't think the "anti-vaccine" crowd is "stupid", "evil" or wish harm on their children. I'd say they are generally "misguided", "wrong", or "misinformed'. We have a friend who, after much personal research, came to the conclusion that her young children needed large doses of Vitamin C supplements (in the form of powder added to drinks) to help them with a perceived health problem. However, all of the added exposure to citric acid has caused serious tooth decay in the kids. One preschooler will soon undergo general anesthesia in the hospital in order to repair the damaged teeth... including the installation of a crown. I think few wouldn't say that our friend's actions were "wrong" or "misguided"... that's how I view the flip side of this debate.

If you want to see how I might be able to feel this, let me take what you said and expand on something I said and alter the topic a bit:

"I really don't know why everyone that is pro-seat belt is so quick to attack those that aren't. I mean we all have done our research and we are all doing what we think is best. We're just putting the info out there for all to see, just like those that are pro-seat belt are putting up all "their" info. Do with the information what you want, just don't call me an uncaring parent based on what I choose to do. I'm open minded enough to read what the doctors/government have to say about wearing seat belts, that doesn't mean I will do it just because they say so. Those that aren't pro-seat belt aren't running our mouths off saying what terrible parents those are that make their kids wear theirs."

All of the above statements can be supported by the same sorts of arguments used in the justification of the anti-vaccine stance:
- In some types of accidents, wearing a seat belt can result in more injury. (This is known as "Argument by Anomaly")
- I know lots of people that don't wear their seat belts, and they've been OK.
- It really isn't seat belts that have caused a decrease in highway deaths in recent decades, it's due mostly to other improvements in automotive & highway design.
- There are lots of people that wear seat belts and still get injured in car crashes.
- In the last ten years there have been 30 reported strangulation cases involving children and shoulder belts.
- Seat belts and such are only required by the government because they are controlled by the car makers who want to make more $$$ by raising the prices of their cars in order to sell you all of that stuff you don't really need.
- Studies that show that seat belts save lives are often funded by the car makers, or their industry associations... (see above point).

Update: From the latest count via e-mails, 6 of the 17 kids on my son's hockey team have contracted the "flu-like" illness in the last 36 hours. So far, only one has required a trip to the hospital.