Gun Found at AK - Updated Post#25 Guest Found Loaded Gun

[Tonka's Skipper]

Your whole tone over the past couple of pages was confrontational and insulting, beginning with your reply to the Canadian poster.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but when you start implying that anyone who would disagree is deranged, it makes folks dismiss your opinion as nothing more than a rant.

Where did I every say a poster was deranged? Where did I ever say a poster was deranged for disagreeing with me??The Canadian poster your referring to is agreeing with me.

I have done nothing but explain and defend my positions on carrying guns into theme parks and family venues.

I said the SOME who feel the need to carry in a theme park are deranged and I stand by it.......and I gave the reasons to back it up.

Yet you keep calling me a rant and Amy went on and on.


AKK

 

[capegirl]

A day or so ago I was thinking that everyone had managed to be respectful on this thread. WHAT HAPPENED??? Granted guns are a sensitive topic, but we can discuss the issue rationally, and turn off the 'attack mode'. A good debate can be enlightening. If a post makes you that angry, it probably is not worth the rise in your blood pressure.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

A day or so ago I was thinking that everyone had managed to be respectful on this thread. WHAT HAPPENED??? Granted guns are a sensitive topic, but we can discuss the issue rationally, and turn of the 'attack mode'. A good debate can be enlightening. If a post make you that angry, it probably is not worth the a rise in your blood pressure.

I agree........I hate it when I have a opinion and then another starts attacking me or anyone else for that matter.

The best thing to do is simply answer point by point with facts and logic.

AKK

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Where did I every say a poster was deranged? Where did I ever say a poster was deranged for disagreeing with me??The Canadian poster your referring to is agreeing with me.

I have done nothing but explain and defend my positions on carrying guns into theme parks and family venues.

I said the SOME who feel the need to carry in a theme park are deranged and I stand by it.......and I gave the reasons to back it up.

Yet you keep calling me a rant and Amy went on and on.


AKK

You didn't name a poster, but you made some pretty sweeping generalizations I found offensive even though they didn't apply to me. I thought it was a poor way to go about the topic. You don't have to name someone. Anytime you say something like, "whoever would do _____ must be _____", someone is going to have an issue with it.

Sorry you feel attacked, but the way you started off looked like you were the one ON the attack.

I'd love to put that all behind us and return to the topic if we can.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

You didn't name a poster, but you made some pretty sweeping generalizations I found offensive even though they didn't apply to me. I thought it was a poor way to go about the topic. You don't have to name someone. Anytime you say something like, "whoever would do _____ must be _____", someone is going to have an issue with it.

Sorry you feel attacked, but the way you started off looked like you were the one ON the attack.

I'd love to put that all behind us and return to the topic if we can.

If my post there with the *some* was not clear, I clarified it in a later post when the a world wind came flying by and I was still declared wrong.

Otherwise, Gumbo no problem fine with me!

The real issue is bring guns, weapons into any theme park or family venues.

Disney always gets their name in the news with the drop of a hat, but one thing I have not seen,(may have missed) is what the other major parks have had happen or what their policy is?

AKK

 

[Lewisc]

On the contrary, every day you get out on the road and surround yourself with many people who have no business operating a motor vehicle. And unlike those holstered pistols, those cars are BEING USED by these unqualified operators. And one of them is far more likely to injure or kill you.

In order to get a drivers license I had to pass both a written test and a road test. I took drivers education. I understand some states have a pre-licensing requirement for people who don't take drivers education.

My car is registered, the VIN number is recorded and I have a license plate. There is no such requirement for guns.

A Google search tells me I can satisfy FL gun requirements with a 2 1/2 hour RUSH course. The 2 1/2 hours is inclusive of classroom and range time.

DON'T EVERY COMPARE owning a gun with driving a car unless you're in favor of imposing similar registration requirements and tests on guns and gun owners as we impose on drivers and car owners.

I don't think anyone is proposing these kinds of restrictions but unless the regulations are comparable your analogy is bogus.

And I pray that there never is an armed madman at Disney. I also hope that should that happen that there are armed good guys to take the ******* out.

Maybe, and only maybe, if the "good guy" is an off duty police officer (or the equivalent)
I pray we don't have a "well meaning good guy" who just met the minimum requirements for a concealed permit. A recipe for making a bad situation worse.

I assume Disney has whatever (small?) signage is required by the FL law regarding concealed firearms. Disney kind of sounds like the kind of private property which might ban guns. Sounds like it would be a good idea to check before bringing your concealed firearm into Disney property. Wait until you get there and see a sign? Leave the gun in your car? Take the bus back to your hotel and leave it in your hotel room? God knows how long you'll have to wait if you took a shuttle bus from an offsite hotel.

 

[ChloroFiend]

Gun Free Zones are only such if people obey the signs. Those would seek to inflict harm on many (your "active shooters" or "spree killers") choose to ignore them. Every major mass casualty scenario has happened in such a gun free zone. There have also been many instances of off-duty police and citizen-CHL holders that have used a concealed weapon to stop situations...most unreported by the media.

As someone with the right to carry a concealed weapon in accordance with the law, as well as someone that's spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars in training with a variety of weapons in disparate conditions, you're damn right I'd carry in a theme park....just as I carry a small trauma kit and tourniquet with me. I take personal responsibility for my own safety and security, as well as that of my family.

I will admit that I'm in the minority. I know plenty of CCW/CHL holders that do not practice regularly or train above the baseline. Guess what...neither do the vast majority of police officers. And the behavior of this guy, leaving his firearm behind...that's reprehensible. It's also not indicative of the CCW/CHL population as a whole.

Frankly, its surprising that we have not seen an attempt at a spree shooting in a theme park. We've had them at malls...schools...theaters. It's only a matter of time. And to tote out the tired aphorism "When seconds count, police (or security) are minutes away."

 

[TurkA77]

Some parts yes. The vast majority of people I know who carry do not do so daily. Some have the permit, but have never carried. They just want to know that should they feel the need, they are set. They treat it like an umbrella - if there's no threat of rain, no need to bring it. But they do own an umbrella.

I need to meet these people and find what type of crystal ball they use to know when and where they will need their gun. The truth is you will never know when or where you will need it, that's why people carry it all the time. I take classes regularly and that question comes up all the time. The instructors ( who range from FBI agents, to army rangers to Air Force officers to policeman) all have the same response. "When should i carry my weapon: Whenever you are legally allowed to do so"

 

[Gumbo4x4]

In order to get a drivers license I had to pass both a written test and a road test. I took drivers education. I understand some states have a pre-licensing requirement for people who don't take drivers education.

My car is registered, the VIN number is recorded and I have a license plate. There is no such requirement for guns.

A Google search tells me I can satisfy FL gun requirements with a 2 1/2 hour RUSH course. The 2 1/2 hours is inclusive of classroom and range time.

DON'T EVERY COMPARE owning a gun with driving a car unless you're in favor of imposing similar registration requirements and tests on guns and gun owners as we impose on drivers and car owners.

I don't think anyone is proposing these kinds of restrictions but unless the regulations are comparable your analogy is bogus.

First off, my "analogy" wasn't an analogy at all. My point was simply that you're far more likely to be killed by some idiot legally driving a car than you are by someone legally carrying a firearm. Simple as that, and hardly "bogus". And why you would even choose my quote to try to make your point is escaping me.



But, if you WANT to get into a comparison, I'll be happy to break it down.

All of the above things you listed are required in order to DRIVE your car on a public road. In order to OWN a car, you only have to live until your 18th birthday. Period.

In order for me to use my gun hunting, I had to take a 2-day class, pass a test, and provide proof of my passing that class once a year when I buy my hunting LICENSE. I took (and passed) my driver's test ~20 minutes after obtaining my permit and 0 minutes of professional instruction. Prior to that day, I had never operated a motor vehicle on a public road.

If I wish to carry concealed, there is an additional class that I have to take ($100), additional fees to pay (annually), and then I have to be approved by the sheriff after a criminal background check.

If I wish to purchase a new firearm, it must be done through a dealer, a background check performed, and that dealer must record the transaction and maintain those records for life. If I walked into Wal-Mart today, within minutes they could tell you the make, model, and serial number of the rifle I purchased in 1989. And yes, I have tested this theory.

And lastly, some states do indeed have registration of firearms and licenses required for gun ownership. Note, I said STATES. Now, where was it again that you registered your car? Was it with the federal gov't? No, it was with your STATE. Your car is not registered with the federal gov't, nor your license issued by the federal gov't, nor your taxes collected by the federal gov't. All of that is done at the state level.



So, thank you for the opportunity for me to respond

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I need to meet these people and find what type of crystal ball they use to know when and where they will need their gun. The truth is you will never know when or where you will need it, that's why people carry it all the time. I take classes regularly and that question comes up all the time. The instructors ( who range from FBI agents, to army rangers to Air Force officers to policeman) all have the same response. "When should i carry my weapon: Whenever you are legally allowed to do so"

Don't disagree, but carrying is a real pain - one of the reasons I don't do it. So, some folks choose only to do it if they feel they are heading into (or through) rough neighborhoods, or otherwise find their hackles raised. Their choice.

As I recall, even the guy who inspired this story stated he never intended to carry INTO the park. He had his gun on him for the trip there, and forgot about it. He realized at the gate that he still had it and instead of locking it up or taking it back to his car, he went in with it.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

If my post there with the *some* was not clear, I clarified it in a later post when the a world wind came flying by and I was still declared wrong.

Otherwise, Gumbo no problem fine with me!

The real issue is bring guns, weapons into any theme park or family venues.

Disney always gets their name in the news with the drop of a hat, but one thing I have not seen,(may have missed) is what the other major parks have had happen or what their policy is?

AKK

And I apologize if we butted heads a bit here.

As for other parks, I have no idea of individual policies, though I do know in my home state theme parks are on the list of places where concealed carry is not permitted (sports stadiums being another). Our Six Flags does have a metal detector.

 

[HankScorpio]

I hope Disney don't take this one incident as a reason to make big changes to park admission security procedures. IMO, it's never a wise policy to base procedures on a single exceptional event.

This one guy made a mistake. Ultimately, no harm was done. There is no reason this has to be anything more than a mistake that was already handled.

Please, no metal detectors or pat downs.

 

[martinm]

In order to get a drivers license I had to pass both a written test and a road test. I took drivers education. I understand some states have a pre-licensing requirement for people who don't take drivers education.

My car is registered, the VIN number is recorded and I have a license plate. There is no such requirement for guns.

A Google search tells me I can satisfy FL gun requirements with a 2 1/2 hour RUSH course. The 2 1/2 hours is inclusive of classroom and range time.

DON'T EVERY COMPARE owning a gun with driving a car unless you're in favor of imposing similar registration requirements and tests on guns and gun owners as we impose on drivers and car owners.

I don't think anyone is proposing these kinds of restrictions but unless the regulations are comparable your analogy is bogus.




Maybe, and only maybe, if the "good guy" is an off duty police officer (or the equivalent)
I pray we don't have a "well meaning good guy" who just met the minimum requirements for a concealed permit. A recipe for making a bad situation worse.

I assume Disney has whatever (small?) signage is required by the FL law regarding concealed firearms. Disney kind of sounds like the kind of private property which might ban guns. Sounds like it would be a good idea to check before bringing your concealed firearm into Disney property. Wait until you get there and see a sign? Leave the gun in your car? Take the bus back to your hotel and leave it in your hotel room? God knows how long you'll have to wait if you took a shuttle bus from an offsite hotel.

WOW no emotion there... Lets see... My Handgun is registered.
I have to take a class that is longer than drivers training.
I have to have 1 mil in insurance.
I had to take a shooting test and qualify better than the police. (I'm an instructor so this was a real challenge

I have to have the Sheriffs permission to carry.

I dont see any drivers being held to standards anywhere near as strict as my CA carry permit.

Dont forget, it is more dangerous to visit your doctor than a house with a gun.

 

[amylevan]

Does anyone really think there aren't concealed weapons all over Disney property? There are NO signs and the "security" that you go through is not likely to find anything since there is no pat down and no metal detectors. How gullible are people that they think everyone around them is obeying a policy that is not strictly enforced or even clearly labeled? (And no, we do not carry in the parks, but I guarantee you that someone is...)

And I'm pretty sure that even Disney themselves realizes this. So I don't think we'll suddenly see policy changes of adding pat downs or metal detectors. (God, we'd have to be at the parks over an hour before rope drop to avoid lines...)

 

[Cafeen]

WOW no emotion there... Lets see... My Handgun is registered.
I have to take a class that is longer than drivers training.
I have to have 1 mil in insurance.
I had to take a shooting test and qualify better than the police. (I'm an instructor so this was a real challenge

I have to have the Sheriffs permission to carry.

I dont see any drivers being held to standards anywhere near as strict as my CA carry permit.

Dont forget, it is more dangerous to visit your doctor than a house with a gun.

And here in Mobile... I have to do the following:
1) Obtain a Pistol Permit (Basically pay $20 and ask) (Allows open carry except in vehicles)
2) Obtain a CCW permit (Basically pay $1 and ask)

(I do not need a permit to buy, nor do I need to register any firearms in AL)

So long as I'm not:
a) A convicted felon
b) Convicted of a violent crime (and note, only convictions matter here really)
c) In the mental health database
d) Sketchy (sheriff's discretion)
e) Not an AL Resident (this is funky wording, basically so long as I am an AL Resident...)

I can pay $21 to carry a concealed handgun in AL, AK, AZ, AR, CO, FL, GA, ID, IN, IA, KY, LA, MI, MS, MO, NH, NC, ND, OK, SD, TN, TX, UT, and WY.

Meanwhile, to receive a driver's license and drive my own car on public roads I have to:
1) Not have any warrants out or license suspended in other states
2) Take a vision test
3) Take a written knowledge test
4) Take an on-road driving test
5) Register the vehicle (depending on county, can be in the $50-$150 range per year)
6) Insure the vehicle

Of course, this IS Alabama, things aren't always right down here (note: I live here, I'm not from here ).

Of special note, the person jumping through many more hoops and costing considerably more will only be able to carry in CA.

Personally, I believe that some degree of normalization needs to happen. Normalizing the extremes on both sides closer to a middle that's comprised of training and testing. All permit holders should be required to have some level of marksmanship testing. All gun owners should be required to have some level of safety training

 

[bdklein]

Are there people on this board who think it is ok for a guest to bring a loaded gun into a WDW theme park?

 

[NYDisneyKid]

Are there people on this board who think it is ok for a guest to bring a loaded gun into a WDW theme park?

yes

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Are there people on this board who think it is ok for a guest to bring a loaded gun into a WDW theme park?

"yes" if it were not against the rules. Doing so violates Disney policy which they as property owners have the right to set.

So, I don't believe anyone is suggesting it is "okay" as it exists, though clearly there are many who would like to see Disney alter the rule.

 

[amylevan]

Are there people on this board who think it is ok for a guest to bring a loaded gun into a WDW theme park?

Being as it is against Disney policy - no, I do not think it is ok to bring a gun into the parks.

Were it not against their policy, yes it would be ok.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Sorry, but there is absolutely NO reason to bring a gun into any theme park of family venue.

All the reasons against it have been discussed here over and over and not 1 reason to do it has been proved out..........the only one that was talked about was if a nut case started firing.....in which case I would not want some Cowboy guy with limited training, hell I don't care...........whatever training, firing back into a crowd killing kids and adults.

If some person did do that and killed a guest, I am glad its Florida they can give the nut case and the person shooting back the needle together.

This is why Disney has a bunch of camera and armed security all over the place........just seconds away. Their security is highly trained and know how to ID a perceived threat and a real threat.

NO one with any gun sense or common sense would even consider.

If you need to carry........go somewhere in the woods and you can shoot it out with others of the same opinion.


Its just ...I know the person who said yes is just throwing that out to get a reaction so this is as far as I go.


AKK