Gun Found at AK - Updated Post#25 Guest Found Loaded Gun

[Dsnyfireman]

The sole intent of an automobile isn't to hurt/maim/kill. Comparing guns to automobiles is like comparing apples to oranges.

Regardless they still kill more people than guns. More people are careless with autos than you think, drive while texting, drinking, talking on the phone, ect. Most of us that do carry do it because we do not wish to be helpless victims . We take our families safety seriously. We train and train with our weapons to ensure we will be able to defend us IF needed. I also believe that all military personnel that have the training and background should carry here at home. We trust them to defend our nation abroad, why not here? A lot of other nations allow their soldiers to carry nation wide, maybe we should too. After what took place in England last week if I was still I in the service I would be looking over my shoulder and carrying everywhere!

 

[Mcert01]

What I find most disturbing about all of that people don't seem to have an issue with others carrying around loaded concealed weapons, but start to get a bit nervous about it when they land on Disney Property? Why isn't anyone outraged that it's okay to just walk around with a loaded gun?

As long as I live, I will never understand the American mentality of gun ownership rights.

And as much as I find the bag checks a pain in the butt and I've even thought they are overkill and ineffective at times, I don't think metal detetors are a completely bad idea. They seem to be common place at many other tourist attractions.

 

[Sir Aaron]

That's not really true in regards to long guns. Most long guns are just as likely to fire when dropped as handguns are, though the chance of a firearm actually firing just from being dropped is miniscule. Most accidents occur when a firearm is falling and someone tries to catch it and they get their finger on the trigger. It's a million times safer to let a gun fall than to attempt to catch it. Same thing goes with knives and soldering irons

That said, most modern firearms both handguns and long guns are pretty much drop proof and will not fire from being dropped, ran over, banged around, etc.

Long guns and handguns have different trigger mechanisms. Many long guns have single action only triggers which means that if you drop them the firing pin is in a position to fire. Handguns usually have at least a double action initial pull which means that the firing pin is not engaged unless you pull the trigger.

HSAT, you can get clothing caught in the trigger, etc which will cause the trigger to engage.

Also, it is a HUGE problem if you leave your weapon unsecured and a kid finds it. Especially in a place like Disney where play guns are sold.

 

[Sir Aaron]

What I find most disturbing about all of that people don't seem to have an issue with others carrying around loaded concealed weapons, but start to get a bit nervous about it when they land on Disney Property? Why isn't anyone outraged that it's okay to just walk around with a loaded gun?

As long as I live, I will never understand the American mentality of gun ownership rights.

And as much as I find the bag checks a pain in the butt and I've even thought they are overkill and ineffective at times, I don't think metal detetors are a completely bad idea. They seem to be common place at many other tourist attractions.

It's ok, because we don't understand foreigners who like to be disarmed. There are some countries where it is illegal to carry a knife...even a swiss army knife. It's almost as if foreigners are afraid of guns like they are a snake that will jump up and bite them.

Do you know the vast majority of gun deaths are suicides or people who weren't supposed to have guns? We can't stop drugs, people, or slaves from crossing the border. For that matter we can't stop restricted animals from being smuggled in. How are we going to stop guns?

And metal detectors are a sign of the times. Instead of putting bad people away or giving them the death penalty, we allow them to walk free and then subject everyone to lengthy and extremely inconvenient searches.

 

[JoWiJo]

I could see how it would be possible to arrive at WDW not knowing guns were not permitted. But how is it that he couldn't know it once he showed up at DAK?

Forget about the non-existence of signs at the parks prohibiting them. That's a distraction. The simple fact that they do bag searches to look for weapons should have been a tipoff that they don't allow them at Disney.

What? Does anyone suppose that he thought they would go through all that trouble to seach bags just to bar someone from bringing their own bag of chips but allow him to bring in a firearm? (yes, I know, Disney does permit outside food). Seriously. What did he think the bag checks were for? Granted, he appears not to have been carrying a bag. But so what? Didn't he still see the search lines?

While I am all for the right to carry, it should have been obvious to him that guns weren't welcome there. Signs shouldn't be necessary.

Then again, in this country, some people have to be told the obvious. Even then, that's sometimes not enough.

 

[mvk]

Regardless they still kill more people than guns. More people are careless with autos than you think, drive while texting, drinking, talking on the phone, ect. Most of us that do carry do it because we do not wish to be helpless victims . We take our families safety seriously. We train and train with our weapons to ensure we will be able to defend us IF needed. I also believe that all military personnel that have the training and background should carry here at home. We trust them to defend our nation abroad, why not here? A lot of other nations allow their soldiers to carry nation wide, maybe we should too. After what took place in England last week if I was still I in the service I would be looking over my shoulder and carrying everywhere!

Come back and talk to us when the amount of deaths caused by people using automobiles specifically to injure/kill reaches the amount of deaths caused by guns. There are going to be accidents that happen that will cause automobile related injuries/deaths, just as there are accidental shootings. But the amount of vehicle related deaths where the sole intent was to use the automobile as a weapon is much less than gun related deaths.

I don't carry or own a gun, that doesn't mean I don't take the safety of my family seriously. In fact, I believe my family is much safer because I don't have a gun in the house. I would be much more worried about something happening and my kids getting access to the gun and it going off than I am about a criminal breaking into my home and causing any sort of harm.

 

[jason10mm]

In Florida it IS legal to carry in amusement parks. There is no part of the licensing process that say "But Disney doesn't like it". Does Sea World, Universal, and all the other dozen major and minor parks in just the Orlando area alone make a more visible effort to notify patrons about no firearms? Disney posts NOTHING about it to the casual guest. Their search is just a BAG search, with really little explanation about what they are looking for (I think it is more for bomb materials, graffiti products, and counterfeit merchandise, as well as a "safety show"). If they wanted to search for weapons they would either ask folks individually or do some sort of body search, either manually or with screening technology. They certainly do not because it would be A. a huge delay in entry, B. very invasive to 99.999999% of guests (if not 100%, I've never heard of a weapon being discharged inside the parks), and C. a technological nightmare considering the entry is outdoors in a humid and hot state.

But personally, given the level of security at Disney (compared to almost anywhere else, including military posts), the awkwardness of the environment compared to daily life, and the typical nature of being there in the first place (letting your guard down and relaxing), I find carrying my own firearm into the parks to be unneccessary. It is also illegal for me since I enjoy drinking at WDW. I rely on knives (which are also prohibited and must be concealed), pepper spray (ditto), and a solid high output flashlight (just common sense really, since you will often be indoors in a sealed room).

One of these days there will, unfortunately, be a violent incident at the parks. The nature of our world with its ease of travel and instant communications makes such an incident attractive to bad elements. Would a patron with a firearm make a difference? Possibly. Would a patron with a firearm inadvertantly CAUSE an incident, like this could have been, possibly. For me the risk:benefit ratio doesn't work out in favor of a firearm at Disney. But others disagree and I respect it so long as they take the personal responsibility and initiative to be safe. This guy, quite frankly, became complacent. We should be using his story as a motivating tale to others to not become complacent themselves, not demonizing simple law abiding people, many of whom you have stood next to in a line and been blissfully unawares.

 

[ponyboy]

Long guns and handguns have different trigger mechanisms. Many long guns have single action only triggers which means that if you drop them the firing pin is in a position to fire.

It would take quite a jolt in most weapons for the firing pin alone to have enough force to activate a primer and discharge the round. Some rifles like the AR15/M16 platform have a floating firing pin that actually strikes the primer enough to dent it each time that it loads a round.

The most likely scenario would be a jolt that is enough to disengage the sear with a round loaded and safety off, which is possible but still unlikely in modern firearms that haven't been modified.

In any modern firearm with a round chambered and the safety on, the possibility of an accidental discharge is pretty much zero.

 

[foxtrotter]

It's ok, because we don't understand foreigners who like to be disarmed. There are some countries where it is illegal to carry a knife...even a swiss army knife. It's almost as if foreigners are afraid of guns like they are a snake that will jump up and bite them.

Do you know the vast majority of gun deaths are suicides or people who weren't supposed to have guns? We can't stop drugs, people, or slaves from crossing the border. For that matter we can't stop restricted animals from being smuggled in. How are we going to stop guns?

And metal detectors are a sign of the times. Instead of putting bad people away or giving them the death penalty, we allow them to walk free and then subject everyone to lengthy and extremely inconvenient searches.

 

[OldsDr]

I believe Disneys bag search is really to slow down people with bags so the people standing a few feet away can watch your mannerisms and profile you. the bag checks are not the real security, the real security are the people you never know are there watching you.

 

[NYDisGuy]

In Florida it IS legal to carry in amusement parks. There is no part of the licensing process that say "But Disney doesn't like it". Does Sea World, Universal, and all the other dozen major and minor parks in just the Orlando area alone make a more visible effort to notify patrons about no firearms? Disney posts NOTHING about it to the casual guest. Their search is just a BAG search, with really little explanation about what they are looking for (I think it is more for bomb materials, graffiti products, and counterfeit merchandise, as well as a "safety show"). If they wanted to search for weapons they would either ask folks individually or do some sort of body search, either manually or with screening technology. They certainly do not because it would be A. a huge delay in entry, B. very invasive to 99.999999% of guests (if not 100%, I've never heard of a weapon being discharged inside the parks), and C. a technological nightmare considering the entry is outdoors in a humid and hot state.

But personally, given the level of security at Disney (compared to almost anywhere else, including military posts), the awkwardness of the environment compared to daily life, and the typical nature of being there in the first place (letting your guard down and relaxing), I find carrying my own firearm into the parks to be unneccessary. It is also illegal for me since I enjoy drinking at WDW. I rely on knives (which are also prohibited and must be concealed), pepper spray (ditto), and a solid high output flashlight

Actually you are wrong. Disney World has a no weapons policy. And it's private land so while they are not able to have you arrested, they can escort you from the property, which means Disney World in general if they deem it necessary. And you cannot use ignorance as a defense of not knowing the policy of a park you are about to enter. Just like you cannot use ignorance for any other rule/law just because it's not put in front of your face. And btw, knives and pepper spray would also land you outside the gates.

 

[jason10mm]

Actually you are wrong. Disney World has a no weapons policy. And it's private land so while they are not able to have you arrested, they can escort you from the property, which means Disney World in general if they deem it necessary. And you cannot use ignorance as a defense of not knowing the policy of a park you are about to enter. Just like you cannot use ignorance for any other rule/law just because it's not put in front of your face. And btw, knives and pepper spray would also land you outside the gates.

Where am I wrong? I know Disney has a no weapons policy because I read about it on the internet, but if you just walk up to a ticket window, buy a ticket, and then walk through the "no bag" line there is NO POSTED WARNING about no weapons, at least none that I remember. And even if there was, it is only a company policy, not law, so the only thing you are risking (like when I carry in a knife or pepper spray) is being ejected. And really, not even that (for a knife) as a very friendly security guard once saw mine and had me turn it in to the security desk to be picked up later while I finished my day INSIDE the park. Disney is well aware that in Florida it is legal to carry weapons, including a firearm if you have a valid permit, so they simply collect them and let you go on spending money. I think the attitude and behavior of the guest is 100% responsible for whether they get the boot, get arrested (for trespassing) or allowed to stay. This guy made an error worthy of being ejected (was he banned for life?). I bet, with 100% certainty, that many others have been found to be carrying (knives, spray, and even firearms) and still allowed to stay (orat the least, return after taking the firearm to their car) if they are courteous, apologetic, and obey the security guard instantly. Making a scene will get you booted though. Disney wants your money.

 

[NYDisGuy]

Where am I wrong? I know Disney has a no weapons policy because I read about it on the internet, but if you just walk up to a ticket window, buy a ticket, and then walk through the "no bag" line there is NO POSTED WARNING about no weapons, at least none that I remember. And even if there was, it is only a company policy, not law, so the only thing you are risking (like when I carry in a knife or pepper spray) is being ejected. And really, not even that (for a knife) as a very friendly security guard once saw mine and had me turn it in to the security desk to be picked up later while I finished my day INSIDE the park. Disney is well aware that in Florida it is legal to carry weapons, including a firearm if you have a valid permit, so they simply collect them and let you go on spending money. I think the attitude and behavior of the guest is 100% responsible for whether they get the boot, get arrested (for trespassing) or allowed to stay. This guy made an error worthy of being ejected (was he banned for life?). I bet, with 100% certainty, that many others have been found to be carrying (knives, spray, and even firearms) and still allowed to stay (orat the least, return after taking the firearm to their car) if they are courteous, apologetic, and obey the security guard instantly. Making a scene will get you booted though. Disney wants your money.

I agree with all that but you're original post made it seem like anyone had the right to walk into Disney with a weapon because they don't have their policies posted. That's what I was responding too.

 

[jason10mm]

Well, in Florida they do. Texas, for example, has a specific sign that must be posted in order for an establishment to notify CCW holders that the place is "off-limits". Anyone who still CCWs inside can be charged.

In Florida there is no such sign. In fact I don't think signage has any legal weight at all, especially not those trite little "no-gun" ghostbusters like signs. But a well wored, clearly visible sign COULD do is serve as notice that Disney does not want anyone with a firearm, so if you get caught with on insude you could immediately be charged with trespass. As it is, if Disney catches you and asks you to leave, if you do so promptly they can't charge you with anything.

So if Disney really wanted to stop folks from carrying they could have clear signage. That they don't means A. they don't really see it as a problem and just handle it when it occurs, B. they fear a pro-gun boycott, or C. in Florida such a sign would carry no weight thus it would be irrelevant and just worry patrons from other countries/states who can't even conceive of legal firearm carry by citizens.

 

[ChipnDale79]

come back and talk to us when the amount of deaths caused by people using automobiles specifically to injure/kill reaches the amount of deaths caused by guns. There are going to be accidents that happen that will cause automobile related injuries/deaths, just as there are accidental shootings. But the amount of vehicle related deaths where the sole intent was to use the automobile as a weapon is much less than gun related deaths.

I don't carry or own a gun, that doesn't mean i don't take the safety of my family seriously. In fact, i believe my family is much safer because i don't have a gun in the house. I would be much more worried about something happening and my kids getting access to the gun and it going off than i am about a criminal breaking into my home and causing any sort of harm.

+1

 

[Sir Aaron]

Come back and talk to us when the amount of deaths caused by people using automobiles specifically to injure/kill reaches the amount of deaths caused by guns. There are going to be accidents that happen that will cause automobile related injuries/deaths, just as there are accidental shootings. But the amount of vehicle related deaths where the sole intent was to use the automobile as a weapon is much less than gun related deaths.

I don't carry or own a gun, that doesn't mean I don't take the safety of my family seriously. In fact, I believe my family is much safer because I don't have a gun in the house. I would be much more worried about something happening and my kids getting access to the gun and it going off than I am about a criminal breaking into my home and causing any sort of harm.

I understand why somebody would not want a firearm. They aren't toys and if you aren't comfortable with one then don't own one.

But more people are killed and injured with knives than by guns. And yet, you have knives in your home. More toddlers die by drowning than by firearms, and yet many parents haven't taught their toddlers basic water survival. In fact, more young adults die by drowning then by firearms.

People should be careful with firearms. What they shouldn't do is have an irrational fear of them as if they are a snake waiting to strike you.

It would take quite a jolt in most weapons for the firing pin alone to have enough force to activate a primer and discharge the round. Some rifles like the AR15/M16 platform have a floating firing pin that actually strikes the primer enough to dent it each time that it loads a round.

The most likely scenario would be a jolt that is enough to disengage the sear with a round loaded and safety off, which is possible but still unlikely in modern firearms that haven't been modified.

In any modern firearm with a round chambered and the safety on, the possibility of an accidental discharge is pretty much zero.

Agreed. I was just responding to why a round could go off in some long guns whereas it is nearly impossible with a handgun.

 

[Greysword]

...but I guess the ultimate point is that when you're on Disney property, Disney's rules do supercede the law.

Boy, Walt, himself, sure wish they did. I'm afraid to say that Disney rules are subordinate to the US Constitution, the US Code, and Florida Statutes. However, it does supersede orange and Oceola County laws, since WDW is its own district.

I could see how it would be possible to arrive at WDW not knowing guns were not permitted. But how is it that he couldn't know it once he showed up at DAK?

Forget about the non-existence of signs at the parks prohibiting them. That's a distraction. The simple fact that they do bag searches to look for weapons should have been a tipoff that they don't allow them at Disney.

<snip>

While I am all for the right to carry, it should have been obvious to him that guns weren't welcome there. Signs shouldn't be necessary.

Then again, in this country, some people have to be told the obvious. Even then, that's sometimes not enough.

According to the posted article in the Sentinel, he realized he had the weapon while on the tram, but continued into AK instead of returning to his car to leave the gun. As such, he knew and didn't want to be inconvenienced .

Come back and talk to us when the amount of deaths caused by people using automobiles specifically to injure/kill reaches the amount of deaths caused by guns. There are going to be accidents that happen that will cause automobile related injuries/deaths, just as there are accidental shootings. But the amount of vehicle related deaths where the sole intent was to use the automobile as a weapon is much less than gun related deaths.

Your point is well taken and understandable. However, I think your argument is more complicated than the intent of the initial comparison.

The simplified idea is that if we, as a society, want to reduce the number of human (and other) fatalities, we would get the greatest return (save the most lives) by outlawing vehicles versus outlawing firearms; if the true intent is simply to save lives. In this simplified argument, the purpose for the tool is irrelevant, instead it is a rote reduction in fatalities. In this case, it makes sense.

Remember the intent of prohibition was to save lives, and would likely have succeeded. However, the amendment didn't stand for very long due to human nature. As such, we won't be outlawing the use of cars anytime soon, despite real data that indicates it would save a lot of lives and injuries.

I'm not arguing either way; I'm attempting to translate the analogy from an outside position.

Keep up the good debate!

 

[Sir Aaron]

That they don't means A. they don't really see it as a problem and just handle it when it occurs, B. they fear a pro-gun boycott, or C. in Florida such a sign would carry no weight thus it would be irrelevant and just worry patrons from other countries/states who can't even conceive of legal firearm carry by citizens.

Probably all three. Somebody looking to do intentional harm wont obey the law or the signs. And there hasn't been any reported incidents of accidental or other discharge on Disney property. And if they post signs, they are more likely to get people intentionally concealing weapons instead of locking them up when Disney sees somebody with one.

 

[marinejjh]

Regardless they still kill more people than guns. More people are careless with autos than you think, drive while texting, drinking, talking on the phone, ect. Most of us that do carry do it because we do not wish to be helpless victims . We take our families safety seriously. We train and train with our weapons to ensure we will be able to defend us IF needed. I also believe that all military personnel that have the training and background should carry here at home. We trust them to defend our nation abroad, why not here? A lot of other nations allow their soldiers to carry nation wide, maybe we should too. After what took place in England last week if I was still I in the service I would be looking over my shoulder and carrying everywhere!

look at Israel, they let them keep their weapons when they get done with their duty. they are the most armed country in the world.

 

[ponyboy]

Come back and talk to us when the amount of deaths caused by people using automobiles specifically to injure/kill reaches the amount of deaths caused by guns. There are going to be accidents that happen that will cause automobile related injuries/deaths, just as there are accidental shootings. But the amount of vehicle related deaths where the sole intent was to use the automobile as a weapon is much less than gun related deaths.

I'm sure that all of the people killed by reckless drivers felt a lot better that they died because of someone else's negligence instead of someone else's intent, right?.

Dead is dead and the fact remains that the average US citizen is about 3x more likely to die from some type of motor vehicle accident than by homicide or accident involving a firearm. If you aren't part of the criminal element of society then your odds drop far below that.

I don't carry or own a gun, that doesn't mean I don't take the safety of my family seriously. In fact, I believe my family is much safer because I don't have a gun in the house. I would be much more worried about something happening and my kids getting access to the gun and it going off than I am about a criminal breaking into my home and causing any sort of harm.

That's totally your right to do what you feel is best for your family and nobody else's decisions or opinions should make any difference in that aspect. Other people have different outlooks on life and do things differently. There is no right or wrong, just different.