Greedy Teachers

[kasar]

All of you whiners who hate us greedy teachers, give it a rest. If we've got it so good, go back to school & become a teacher. I am so sick of the ingrates who do not value the education of their children enough to adequately compensate those who do it. You all could have been teachers, but you chose other paths...oh well, you messed up. What you do not understand that a give back like this is a step on a slippery slope of continued givebacks. It took decades for teachers to make a reasonable wage. Why should we give away what we earned? You wouldn't.

Did you really CHOOSE teaching as a profession? Were you not aware of the realities of that life? Every teacher I know goes into teaching knowing that they will never make much more than what they start out at (some increases but not much). I think it's pretty much well-known that teachers do not make much money. However, there will always be teachers. That's because they see teaching as a calling, something of value. Thank God for those teachers who, along with parents, mold and encourage our precious children with enthusiasm, energy and compassion. I also thank God for nurses, police and firefighters who work under the most extreme and dangerous conditions, all without huge compensation as well.

I wish you made more money, I really do. I value my children's education above everything else and I'd gladly pay more for quality teachers (that's a whole other thread isn't it??). Unfortunately, that's not the way our society has structured it's educational system. If this is really your attitude, may I suggest a career change?


Oops, edited to add: we pay nearly $1000 a month for health insurance - out of our own pockets. We also pay for our own dental insurance. My DH works 60+ hours a week and often has to miss family vacations because he's called into work. Be careful what you wish for.....

 

[Nancy]

Originally posted by PolyConFan
All of you whiners who hate us greedy teachers, give it a rest. If we've got it so good, go back to school & become a teacher. I am so sick of the ingrates who do not value the education of their children enough to adequately compensate those who do it. You all could have been teachers, but you chose other paths...oh well, you messed up. What you do not understand that a give back like this is a step on a slippery slope of continued givebacks. It took decades for teachers to make a reasonable wage. Why should we give away what we earned? You wouldn't.

There have been many companies that have taken benefits away from employees and the employees ok it because that is the only way to keep their jobs. My DH has gone 5 years without a raise...yet our out of pocket expenses keep going up (including insurance) And my husband could go back to school (he only needs 2 credit hours ) and get his degree but at 46 do you really think a school would hire him?? I don't think so. He would love a job where he has summers and school vacations off instead of the 2 weeks he has after 22 yrs with the same company. He had 3 but that was one of the concessions they had to make. (pay for part of insurance and no more sick/personal days and less vacation time) At least he has his job and it does pay fairly well even without cost of living increases. So...yep we would give back...we have already done so.

 

[mtblujeans]

This would be a good place for a deep breath.......

I think healthcare/insurance is quite the mess in this country.....no matter what the career. I hope things are not going to be expressed, here, that are going to leave a "nasty thread". That is not the purpose of these boards.

I would recommend, tho', that we let this topic lie right where it is and each of us turn our energies into our own communities and make sure we know as many facts as we can about education and finances there so perhaps we can all do some good in each of our communities.

Good Night, Everybody!

 

[Tess]

I am thoroughly insulted ( ) we look nothing like the senator and Mrs. Catsup.

BTW, that's not orange, it's Florida bronze (and bad lighting), we were at Chef Mickey's and it was June 2004. My husband is actually quite "red tinged" in his tan, while I am simply "golden".

All of you whiners who hate us greedy teachers, give it a rest. If we've got it so good, go back to school & become a teacher. I am so sick of the ingrates who do not value the education of their children enough to adequately compensate those who do it. You all could have been teachers, but you chose other paths...oh well, you messed up. What you do not understand that a give back like this is a step on a slippery slope of continued givebacks. It took decades for teachers to make a reasonable wage. Why should we give away what we earned? You wouldn't.

I have a friend (a teacher) who says the same thing--my jaw dropped that this person--whom I respected until that point--could make such a ridiculous statement. We can't ALL be teachers, who would fight fires, defend our country, or provide the health care that raised this issue we post upon right now? As far as that "slippery slope", we have all taken that nasty slide and just believe that a small fraction of our society should not feel "entitled" to it because of their choice of profession. In fact, it's the sense of "entitlement" that really raises my hackles. Why, by virtue of your choice of profession, do you feel "entitled" to the best health care benefits? Why should your kids receive full dental and optical while mine aren't entitled? I don't get it? As I said above, in the grand old days, people worked in the banking/finance industry because it offered terrific benefits but lower wages. Well, those days are long, long gone. The only remaining aspect of that life is the comparatively lower wages as compared to other industries with like responsibility.

The business of operating a school is just that a business--no different than operating a business outside of the institution. There is a bottom line the administration must attain. There are only so many tax $$$$ which are being reduced at an alarming rate as state's cut budgets. All people are saying is that teachers need to realize that the health care gravy train can't go on indefinitely for them. It ended years and years ago for most of the working world. To threaten strikes, withhold contract votes, instigate work slow downs, and my greatest pet peeve--involve the kids in their personal fight--is just ludicrous. A topic for another post is how does the private sector, e.g., parochial schools manage to turn out better educated students at a much, much lower cost per pupil? Another time, perhaps. . .

As to the posts about long term service and the earnings, we have well over 20 teachers (most of whom are beyond ineffective) earning upwards of $65,000 per year! Not bad for a 180 day calendar at 6 hours of actual classroom time! And before someone goes there. . .I've heard all about the behind the scenes time. . .paper grading, etc., etc. We all work more than a 40 hour week and many, many of us take work home with us at night as well. . .I just want that $20 per month healthcare for MY family + optical and dental. . .summers off wouldn't be bad either.

Obviously, these posts are relative to the districts from which we all come--everyone has a different scenario--these are just a few of the issues confronting schools and teachers.

 

[totalia]

I have seen far too many greedy teachers lately. There is strike after strike by the teachers in my region and I am very sick of it.

The teachers want higher wages, benefits, smaller classroom sizes, more money for supplies, etc.

Sounds reasonable right?

Until you watch what they are actually doing.

They argue like crazy over all of these things but what they want most is more money and to heck with the students.

If the gvt offers more money for their salaries, they cave on all the other issues. Sounds like pure greed to me.

 

[Michelle GT]

This is such a hot topic !!!

Where I am from, teachers make an average of $60k and have full coverage and guaranteed pension. (the top paid make about $90k) Actually, if the investments don't pay well for their pension fund, our taxes go up.
I can only speak for this area, but I think they are doing fine here and do not appreciate what they have and are out of touch with the real working world. My husband lost his job, took a pay cut of 16K ( IT industry) he works way more than 40 hours a week. and he also works the full year ( imagine that!!)
And just because they make good money doesn't mean they are the best teachers. Some are, but then again some aren't. A top salary doesn't guarantee it.
We also get a list of supplies needed for our kids every year and dish out about $70 a kid just for these supplies ( not clothes!)

Medical, give me a break- everyone pays their medical and so should teachers
These are hard economic times and all should carry the burden. Not sure why teachers think they should be exempt

 

[Mskanga]

Teachers here make an average of 60K in nine months , my husband does not make that not even in twelve months.
We have just as many job related expenses as teachers do , and usually those are expenses that we cannot cut because they are a requirement in order to keep the job.
I am tired of reading that parents are the greedy ones because they don't want to pay $40 for the teachers insurance being that they buy supplies for our children, and to be thankful that they are teaching our children.
Yes I am thankful that they are teaching our children , and they should be paid accordingly, but on the flip side pay your share of your insurance and your health care just like little Johnny's parents do.
My husband does not make in one year what some teachers here make in nine months , yet his portion to pay for insurance a month for the children and myself is $340 , that excludes what the employer pays , and we also have co-pays , my prescription co-pay is $25.
I'm sorry , but there are far more parents out there who make as much or even less than some teachers do and they still pay for their share of insurance and healthcare, and they work in just as poor conditions or even worse than teachers do.

 

[Royalbear]

But Should Teachers Get Discounts To Disney?

 

[totalia]

Originally posted by Michelle GT
This is such a hot topic !!!

Where I am from, teachers make an average of $60k and have full coverage and guaranteed pension. (the top paid make about $90k) Actually, if the investments don't pay well for their pension fund, our taxes go up.
I can only speak for this area, but I think they are doing fine here and do not appreciate what they have and are out of touch with the real working world. My husband lost his job, took a pay cut of 16K ( IT industry) he works way more than 40 hours a week. and he also works the full year ( imagine that!!)
And just because they make good money doesn't mean they are the best teachers. Some are, but then again some aren't. A top salary doesn't guarantee it.
We also get a list of supplies needed for our kids every year and dish out about $70 a kid just for these supplies ( not clothes!)

Medical, give me a break- everyone pays their medical and so should teachers
These are hard economic times and all should carry the burden. Not sure why teachers think they should be exempt

I don't think its just for your area. I think teachers are out of touch in all areas. I'm a college graduate too and I am currently making about $10 000 a year. If I were to find something in my field, I MAY end up making $50 000 a year by the time I'm 50 years old. And that's working in the medical or legal field.

I can't even imagine $60 000 a year for 9 or 10 months work. Wish I had that.

 

[PRINCESS VIJA]

Wow, this is a hot topic, all I can say that is in Wisconsin we are 35th in the nation for pay... I think I might move to PA when I graduate!

 

[Nala217]

I am a wife of a teacher and we are very lucky to have our school district pay for our health care. There are some things that people should keep in mind though. Pay scales are different all over the country. In PA they may make 60,000 but, in WI my husband make about 38,000 after teaching for 12 years. And, that is counting coaching 3 sports, running the safety patrol and teaching six weeks of summer school. His pay scale is the lowest in the area and has been frozen for the last couple years. He hasn't gotten any raises, cost of living, nothing. The only way for him to increase his pay is for him to take more grad level classes to move up the pay scale which we have to pay for. We also go for 3 months during the summer with no pay check so we have to buget carefully. His school district is now trying to find cheaper insurance so they can raise the schools pay base. However, the amount extra we would have to pay would be more than the "raise" he would get. So they don't want to give up their health care because that's all they are getting right now.
I would look at this from all angles because there is probably more to it than the 40.00. The school district might be pushing that angle to make the citizen react just the way you are. All this for 40.00.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I swore that I would not even look at this post again but it is like a car wreck, I cannot look away.

To the poster who said eveyone has expenses related to their job, you did not really list them other than health care. I did not see money for professional development, prizes or snacks.

To the poster who said that her teachers do not provide snacks. Well you are probably a wonderful parent but there are lots of them out there who are not. Do you think it right that a little child sit there without a snack while eveyone esle has something to eat?

Lunch..yes some kids do get free or subsidised lunch BUT some do not and believe it or not they have parents who frequently do not give them lunch money for what ever reason. We DO not give those kids free lunch. What should I do when a child says tells me her parent did not have any money on her that day and that I should lend her the money and the parent will pay me back(not).

As to the diseases and illnessses name me one other job except for healthcare worker where there are more germs and illnesses passed around.

Again I say. Home school you kids if you think we live the life of Riley.

Yes we do not work in the summer, but we do not get paid for it either. What we do do in the summer is work a summer job while we take couses necessary to maintain a certification. As I said before they are not free and range from 500-1000.00.

I agree with the teacher who said, " go back to school, become a teacher and then you too can qualify for lots of scholarships for your kids who are going to college because you make so little money.

Maybe in some areas of the country, there is a huge glut of teachers but in the Northeast, there are jobs still open even after school starts because there are not enough of us to stupid enough to take them.

 

[leighe]

I seriously doubt that those teachers are getting ready to strike just over $40 a month. I'm pretty sure there has to be more to the story. I'm a teacher in KY and Perrrrfecta's first post explained perfectly the troubles we are having with insurance here. Traditionally, in KY at least, low teacher salaries were offset by good beneftis and retirement plans. Even with a PhD in my district the max salary for a classroom teacher is about $56,000. I need to move to PA or some of these other places! With a master's degree you start out pretty well, (I think my starting salary was about $33,000) but then you kind of stagnate. 27 years later your making maybe $20,000 more than you were when you started. Most other professions that require the same level of education and on-going training really are better paying. And, no, no one goes into teaching expecting to make a fortune. However, I think lowered expectations translates into lower salaries. Teachers can be paid less because we all go around saying, "Well, I don't teach for the money" and may people think teachers are selfish or greedy if they expect to be paid more. It's a no win situation.

 

[decker96]

Originally posted by Bella the Ball 360
Lunch..yes some kids do get free or subsidised lunch BUT some do not and believe it or not they have parents who frequently do not give them lunch money for what ever reason. We DO not give those kids free lunch. What should I do when a child says tells me her parent did not have any money on her that day and that I should lend her the money and the parent will pay me back(not).

Then your school district definitely needs to get a different system. My mom is a principal in IL and in her school district, the district absorbs this charge, not the individual teacher. It is the same in our district here in Southern MN and in my SIL's district in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Any kid who doesn't have a lunch or lunch money can charge and get hot lunch. A note is sent home with them that the parent owes for the lunch. Kid's can do this up to three times and get the regular hot lunch. If the parent hasn't paid by then the school calls them and they will give the kid only a PBJ sandwich and water every day until the parent pays. I don't know what happens if the parent never pays because I've never heard of that happening. But regardless, it is not up to the individual teacher to supply their lunch for them. If I were you, I'd say something to the administration or school board because it's not right for you to subsidize a kid's lunch because their parent doesn't give them any money.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

For all of you who are making assumptions, here is an example of the pay for teachers in Jefferson County Kentucky.

Mininum qualification = 4 year degree with education courses
after 5 years must have a master's degree or a total of 30 hours that you are required to pay for out of your own pocket.



0 equals your first year teaching
rank II = masters degree
rank I = masters degree plus 30 hours or two master's degrees

RANKIII III+15 RANK II II+15 RANK I DOCTORATE
0 30337 31703 34888 36255 39440 41411
1 30944 32309 35494 36861 40046 42018
2 31552 32915 36104 37315 40653 42624
3 32158 33523 36708 38075 41259 43232
4 34282 34282 38288 38679 42290 43838
5 34888 35344 38529 39894 43081 45050
6 35801 36558 39743 41106 44292 46263
7 36407 37770 40958 42321 45506 47479
8 37620 38985 42168 43537 46720 48692
9 38832 40199 43384 44747 47935 49906
10 40046 41411 44597 45962 49145 51118
11 42473 43838 47023 48388 51576 53545
12 43685 45050 48236 49603 52788 54759
13 44900 46263 49450 50815 54001 55974
14 46114 47479 50662 52027 55215 57186
15 47327 48692 51879 53242 56427 58398
16 49755 51118 54306 55671 58854 60825
17 51576 52939 56124 57491 60675 62646
20 52788 54153 57339 58703 61889 63860
25 53697 55064 58246 59613 62798 64771


Yes, I will be making around $64,771 after how many years???
also note I would have to have my doctorate!!!!
look closely people.

I am giving you facts here not assumptions. Look on the top of page two on this post to see the proposed insurance payments for this county for the year 2005.
Let me add we have to pay for dental and vision. Does not come free.

Think about young people like myself who want to educate, get a master's degree and start out at less than $35,000, and then have to worry about paying over $7,000 a year for a family for health insurance (for a couple it would be $402.00 a month)

To the person who says we should know teaching doesn't pay a lot of money- Do you think that the only people who should teach who are ones who have spouses or family members who can help support them? Give me a break. Most people become doctors because they love medicine. Most people become architects because they love architecture. Do we expect for them to make less than $35,000 a year starting salary in this country?
No, we don't. Why becasue they are educated. Because they sweat in college. So why do teachers, the majority who have to be exceptionally qualified, have to make so little?

So if people think teachers are whining, they will not spend the extra $10,000 - $30,000 for a Master's degree, and not know how to peoperly educate your children.

Take it from me - a poorly qualified teacher is NOT what you want, but that is what you will get if we do not feel we are being compensated in insurance. We can't afford the salary with having to support our families.

I support a family of four, and have been teaching three years with a master's. Do the math folks. Yes, this is what I have chosen to do, but in the mean time, I did NOT expect to pay $7,000 a year in health insurance.

 

[kasar]

To the poster who said eveyone has expenses related to their job, you did not really list them other than health care. I did not see money for professional development, prizes or snacks.

Just about anyone with a license to practice their job (i.e. hairdresser, real estate agent, CPA, plumber) must keep up with their on-going certifications. While some may be reimbursed, most - especially those self employed pay their own way. Let's not forget about state fees and licensing fees. Here are some other expenses that people forget about: How about travelling expenses, cell phones, parking, business clothes, entertaining clients, etc. How about leaving your family for weeks at a time and sleeping in hotels? How about having to choose between having a baby and losing a promotion (or even your job)? How about having to eat out because you've been kept at work many hours past "quitting time". There are so many expenses that people just do without complaining because it needs to get done. Now, I'm not saying that it's right. But your insinuation that everyone has everything paid for them is wrong. Add to that our hefty health insurance and I think you'll see where I'm heading.

What should I do when a child says tells me her parent did not have any money on her that day and that I should lend her the money and the parent will pay me back(not).

In our school, they would be referred to the office. You're right, no teacher should be footing the bill for any child's lunch. That's an issue for the school, not the individual teacher.

Again I say. Home school you kids if you think we live the life of Riley

We, as parents and taxpayers, have a right to question where our money is going. It doesn't mean we're unsatisfied with our schools, we're watching out for our children and our town. Isn't that what teachers want? Interested and committed parents? Should we just let the schools do whatever they want? I don't think so, I've seen far too many misappropriations around here.

 

[Scutapipig]

I happen to live in the same area as the original poster. I have to say, in our specific area of the country, very large big name corporations have laid-off and/or moved their factories elsewhere, resulting in a dramatic increase in unemployment figures in the last year or so.

I think what is hard to comprehend about this potential strike by the teachers, is that there are thousands of people in this area who would love to be given the opportunity to pay $40/month if it meant they would have a job to go to every day. Approximately 70% of the population in this area feel as though the teachers SHOULD pay a portion of the cost of their healthcare. (As stated in a poll conducted by a local TV station.)

I want the best for my family, just as the teachers want the best for their families, but at some point, everyone needs to give a little. I have to say, I'm slightly biased, because just like the media hype with the election coverage, I'm just simply tired of this whole issue and would like to see it resolved quickly. If this were my district, I would probably be out there on my soapbox spouting the good, bad, and ugly just to get it resolved so the focus can go back to the children and teaching.

I guess my greatest concern with any district in this country is why don't we have a return back to the basics: reading, writing, and arithmetic? Why must we have new state-of-the-art football fields, and swimming pools, and the newest, best, and most modern facilities for our children, when we aren't even meeting the basic goals of achievement at each grade level? I'm afraid we're losing sight of our priorities of teaching our children by allowing our desire to have the top rated athletic team, or having the most innovative architectural design of the new school take precedence over our children. I would really like to go back to the basics.

Oh...one more thought. When you hire in at a company, you are given terms of employment, and you accept or decline your position based upon those terms. When those terms change, you have another opportunity to accept or decline your position based upon the newest set of terms. It is YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE and you are free to walk away at any time if you do not like the direction those terms are taking.

I don't think I was nearly as fluent in addressing this as I hoped to be, but I hope you understand what I was trying to say.

 

[orvilleair]

Why is a Masters degree a prerequisite to be a teacher? Wouldn't a Bachelors degree suffice? That is the requirement in Ohio too, and I don't think you're going to attract young teachers with those requirements. Looking at Purrrrfecta's salary table the pay around here is about 20% more.

Back to the OP, to strike on $40 a month higher premium is risky.

 

[charlie,nj]

Average Teacher Sararies by State

interesting

 

[tiggerdog]

Originally posted by charlie,nj
Average Teacher Sararies by State

interesting

That was interesting. Thank you for sharing the link.

This is my fifteenth year as a teacher. I have a Master's but still make less then the average teacher in my state.

I teach in a low income district. I teach here by choice. I work with other teachers who, like me, have voted to take a reduction in pay so that our district doesn't have to cut student programs.

As I stated earlier, I do feed my students. 70% of my students are on free lunch while another 11% are on reduced lunch. Many of these students only get two meals a day - the free breakfast and lunch the school provides. Have you seen the sizes of these lunches? I know that when I was a teen there was no way I could have survived on these two school meals a day. When a child gets hungry they are not going to concentrate on a lesson. A hungry child knows he or she can come to me and a few other teachers and ask for food. We have started a mini food bank in my office. When we go to the store we buy a few extra food items to give to our students (ya gotta love BOGOs!). They, and their parents, know that we will help them out. We understand how difficult it is to have to ask for help.

The business of operating a school is just that a business--no different than operating a business outside of the institution.

Actually, this is not the case. Say you were the owner of a company that makes ice cream. Your company makes the best blueberry ice cream in the country because you only use the best blueberries. One day, a shipment of blueberries is delivered to your factory that is below your standard of product you use in your ice cream. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to eat the cost and make ice cream that is not average? No. You are going to send this shipment back and refuse to use it.

Public schools cannot stop a child from entering the school house door because he or she is below average or doesn't speak English. We, unlike a business, must work with all students, regardless of a student's ability. We can't deny a below-average blueberry an education that will best meet its needs. We take the product we are given, work with it, and hopefully that blueberry, I mean child, will leave our school with the best education that meets the needs of the individual student.

Finally, it would have to be a very cold day in you-know-where before I would go on strike. When I hear a teacher complain about the pay I remind them they have a job and should be thankful instead. My point was not to support others in favor of teachers striking, but instead to give another view of what many teachers often deal with.