Greedy Teachers

[kasar]

I support a family of four, and have been teaching three years with a master's. Do the math folks. Yes, this is what I have chosen to do, but in the mean time, I did NOT expect to pay $7,000 a year in health insurance

But why not? Not to be argumentative here, but plenty of people do. Those people make the same salary that you do. I know this is the sacred cow that no one is supposed to question, but I honestly can't figure out why teachers feel that they shouldn't pay for their own benefits when everyone else does.

Most people become doctors because they love medicine. Most people become architects because they love architecture. Do we expect for them to make less than $35,000 a year starting salary in this country?

But you're not a doctor or an architect. They work in the private sector where their salary is determined by what people are willing to pay and by performance reviews and motivation - not something that teachers can (or should) be judged on. You may have as much education as these other professionals but your earning potential is limited because you work for the public. As I've said earlier, I DO think teachers are underpaid, I would like teachers to be satisfied with their jobs - after all, don't happy teachers make happy students? I value my children's education above anything else and I do everything I can to make sure our school is as generous to the teachers as it can be. Again, for my kids. However, I'm still baffled at why some teachers choose teaching as a career, knowing full well the pay, and then complain when the pay is exactly what they expected.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

"But why not? Not to be argumentative here, but plenty of people do. Those people make the same salary that you do. I know this is the sacred cow that no one is supposed to question, but I honestly can't figure out why teachers feel that they shouldn't pay for their own benefits when everyone else does. "


Because one of the ways they recruited teachers in the area where I live was by offering them an insurance incentive

We knew the pay, and we accepted it, but we were not looking to receive a $5,000 a year pay cut.

There are architects who work for the state. There are doctors who work for the state.
The man who determined the health insurance plan for the state of Kentucky works for the state, and he was contracted $ 186,000 a year to do so. This is a lame argument. The police here work for the government, and their insurance payment for a family is $50 a month. When they retire, they go onto our insurance policy, and they pay $100 a month.

 

[kasar]

Originally posted by Purrrrfecta
"But why not? Not to be argumentative here, but plenty of people do. Those people make the same salary that you do. I know this is the sacred cow that no one is supposed to question, but I honestly can't figure out why teachers feel that they shouldn't pay for their own benefits when everyone else does. "


Because one of the ways they recruited teachers in the area where I live was by offering them an insurance incentive

Okay then, I see where your frustration is. That's not fair if that's what they promised. Hopefully for you, it's in writing somewhere.

 

[Michelle GT]

Promises?
What about all of the retirees that were promised pensions(coal mines,steel industry) that are now retired and their pensions have been cut or lost entirely. these people made life choices and risked their health on the promise of decent health and pension plans for them and their families. US airways is looking to drop their pension plans as well.
I don't understand why some professions( like teachers) think they should be above these types of problems when the same thing is happening to many all around them. And many jobs don't have the option of striking. If you dont like the pay,increase in health insurance costs or anything else...there's the door

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

Purrrfecta I love your posts, I am truly getting burned with this post as well as with the attitude that we are "glorified babysitters" and should get paid as such. The debate is not so much the $40.00 of the original post, it is the feeling of most of society that we have some cushy job (as I had to wrestle a student who tore my room apart to the office the other day)or that we do not deserve the money we EARN!! The poster who alluded to the fact that other professions must keep up a license in fact referred to professionals who were not at the mercy of the school board for their salary. ALSO, these people earn more in a day than we earn in a week. My girl friend who is a hair dresser often earns between three and five thousand a week!! Tips are not included in this. We cannot even teach with less than 6 years of college..does it take that long to recoup the investment from training fo a hair dresser or even a doctor??

 

[Pinnie]

Originally posted by Bella the Ball 360
Purrrfecta I love your posts, I am truly getting burned with this post as well as with the attitude that we are "glorified babysitters" and should get paid as such. The debate is not so much the $40.00 of the original post, it is the feeling of most of society that we have some cushy job (as I had to wrestle a student who tore my room apart to the office the other day)or that we do not deserve the money we EARN!!

AMEN!

I try to stay away from these posts, but this one has me up and arms. I, too, feel like some people out there regard teachers as nothing more than glorified babysitters. Let me tell you a little about MY classes the last few years. Keep in mind that I am in a "regular" classroom...not special ed. Just in the last 5 years alone I have had 3 children with Autism Spectrum Disorder, 2 with Aspergers. I have also had a child that I had to be trained to do a tube feeding at lunchtime (we have NO school nurse). The teacher next door had a child that had to have a cath put in. Let me also mention this year I have 2 epi-pens and a diabetic that I have to check his blood sugar levels a couple of times a day. I also have a child with ODD and a couple of ADD/ADHD kids whose parents have opted them out of meds. Oh, and did I forget to mention the language impaired students and those with Artic problems that the parents feel that they will "just gow out of"? Ooops. forgot to mention my student with Fragile X Syndrome. I did not go to school to become a nurse. I had to pay for classes, workshops and inservices on diabetes, autism, aspergers, ADD/ADHD etc. over the years out of my pocket, not to mention all the other various conferences and classes I had to take to keep my license in my state.

We are expected to do more and more with less and less. I have been at this job for 29 years and I am ready to move on. I have a friend who is a massage therapist and she is making close to $50 an hour in her practice. Guess what MY second career may be?

I often see education being compared to industry. My Dh works for one of the Big 3 auto companies and if he gets raw material that is flawed or not up to par, he can reject it to make a perfect car. I have to take what is given to me. I have kids that have told me they didn't get a chance to tell mom what they did on the ride home from school because mom popped in a DVD. How sad is that??? I have had TSLIs tell me that there is a huge upswing in language delays because too many kids are engaged in passive language. Too much TV, too many DVDs and not enough chance to practice "talking"

OK, I am off my soapbax. As the old saying goes, "Walk a mile in my shoes."

pinnie

 

[PolyConFan]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yeah, YOU messed up. You could have had it so easy, like we greedy teachers do, but you decided to become something else. Stop your whining.

Originally posted by Mskanga
Wait a minute...WE messed up? Why? because we didn't chose to be a teacher? you don't seem to care that other people very similar work related expenses as you do , and still have to pay for their own share of medical insurance and care. In our schools most supplies are provided for by the district ( with our tax money of course ) and a lot of things the PTO also provides. I know one thing, if this happened in our school district , there would be a huge uproar in the community, people pay more than their fair share here.

 

[PolyConFan]

Originally posted by Toby'sFriend
Wow! I hope you get to teach my kids someday. (NOT)

You & your kids would LOVE me. They have to cap the amount of people who try to get into my classes. parents call all of the time.

 

[PolyConFan]

Originally posted by kasar
Did you really CHOOSE teaching as a profession? Were you not aware of the realities of that life? Every teacher I know goes into teaching knowing that they will never make much more than what they start out at (some increases but not much). I think it's pretty much well-known that teachers do not make much money. However, there will always be teachers. That's because they see teaching as a calling, something of value. Thank God for those teachers who, along with parents, mold and encourage our precious children with enthusiasm, energy and compassion. I also thank God for nurses, police and firefighters who work under the most extreme and dangerous conditions, all without huge compensation as well.

I wish you made more money, I really do. I value my children's education above everything else and I'd gladly pay more for quality teachers (that's a whole other thread isn't it??). Unfortunately, that's not the way our society has structured it's educational system. If this is really your attitude, may I suggest a career change?


Oops, edited to add: we pay nearly $1000 a month for health insurance - out of our own pockets. We also pay for our own dental insurance. My DH works 60+ hours a week and often has to miss family vacations because he's called into work. Be careful what you wish for.....

Of course I knew what teachers made, and of course I see it as a calling. A good teacher must. BUT, it does not mean that I should forever resign myself to take whatever someone on these boards deems reasonable. I keep doing a good job, and I want to be compensated as well as possible. Human nature. I do not wish to be anything but an educator. I'll be moving toward an administrator's position in the next few months. Eventually I will be a superintendent. I love education...I jus want to support MY family as well as possible while doing it.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

Poly Con Fan,

Rock on Rock on, but

I am going to have to walk away from this thread.
I laid out the facts. I know the teacher's in my district were inticed to come in to a profession with LOWER pay (DESPITE THE AMOUNT OF EDUCATION WE HAVE UNDER OUR BELTS) because of the insurance and 3.5 % fringe benefit.

Take that away, and we have nothing.


Pay me an average salary of $118,000 a year for 82 hours a month of work like US airways Pilots receive. I will even take the average $39,000 the flight attendants make for the same amount of hours a month.

Absorb these words -

THE COUNTRY IS GOING TO HAVE TO REVAMP ITS EDUCATIONAL POLICY FOR HIRING QUALIFIED TEACHERS BECAUSE NO ONE (EVEN THOSE WHO HAVE A CALLING LIKE I DID) WILL WANT TO WORK AS A TEACHER BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT A FAMILY ON SUCH LITTLE PAY, A MIN OF 6 YEARS OF COLLEGE EDUCATION, AND STUDENTS LOANS !!!!

And no, I am not screaming. I have a bullhorn

 

[JulieWent]

I, too, see teaching as a calling and will continue to teach regardless of the pay. Luckily, I am married, and my two income family provides me with the luxury of not having to worry about scraping from month to month.

However, we in America have the most amazingly screwed up values (as evidenced by many of the comments made on this very thread). We spend HUGE amounts of money on entertainment and frivolous expenses. (Evidence -- how much does a professional baseball player? An over-hyped media created pop star? An executive who runs an entertainment industry?) On this board, we openly discuss spending amounts of money that, to many people, would be staggering, on vacations.

But, when our local, state, and national governments say, "You know, guys, we need to restructure the tax system, or we need to raise your taxes so that you will pay $200 more per year in order to improve our educational system so that all of our children will get better educations," we say, "Man, those are the greediest teachers I've ever seen."

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. When we want Disney World to be a beautiful, special vacation, we eagerly spend upwards of $1000 for a family of 4 on tickets so that Disney can, as many people say, "Maintain the parks." If we want our children to receive world class educations, sometimes we have to put something into "Maintaining the system." "Maintaining the system" means attracting the best and the brightest INTO it. "Maintain the system" means RETAINING teachers who are experienced and who are struggling financially. (Not all good teachers are as fortunate as I am. Many are single parents or sole bread winners.) "Maintaining the system" means saying to the people who educate our children, "We value what you do."

Of course, this goes for nurses, firefighters, and all the other underpaid professionals out there that Americans complain about on a daily basis, too. Nothing worth having is ever easy, free, or even cheap.

Julie

 

[Michelle GT]

My husband works for a mutual fund company. He used to do computer consulting there for over 5 years. As a consultant, they asked him numerous times to be an employee- he chose not to because the pay was better as a consultant- then when the IT jobs dried up around here- he needed a job- he was lucky enough to be offered employment at the same company only this time the money was less then they had offered before- he had no choice but to take it. He is doing the same job - same desk- etc only making 15% less then he was and 10% less then the original offer. That is life!!!!!!
Teachers do not have to worry about the same ups and downs in the job market. As a matter of fact- once they have tenure it is hard to get rid of them if they are underperforming. My husband gets reviewed against his peers twice a year and is ranked accordingly. If you are in the lower pecentile- you are on notice and get no raise- after two years of that- you are dismissed or demoted.
Nothing is guaranteed in the business world- you have to take the good with the bad- I think teachers want to be paid as other professional are, but dont want to ride the waves of uncertainty.
If the teachers don't like their jobs, let them quit and find a job somewhere else. If they want to be paid as some other professionals are in the business world are, then I say let them be scrutinized and ranked with no job security( just like the real world)

 

[Pinnie]

Originally posted by Michelle GT
Teachers do not have to worry about the same ups and downs in the job market.

I beg to differ. I have 49 peers that have been laid off in my district alone this year due to cuts in state funding.

pinnie

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by Michelle GT

Teachers do not have to worry about the same ups and downs in the job market. As a matter of fact- once they have tenure it is hard to get rid of them if they are underperforming.

What makes you think you can't be fired or laid off if you have tenure? Teachers have a job perfomance review 4 times/year by their principal and then again by a state evaluator. If area jobs are lost and people move away, there are also fewer teaching jobs. Do you know how many teachers (who don't have a husband as the main breadwinner) have to work 2 jobs? Sorry, but a person with a master's degree shouldn't have to work weekends at a gas station just to make ends meet. I don't know a teacher who doesn't spend at least $1,500 of their own money on their classroom every year so your kids can have the resources they need. Next time you are in your child's classroom take a look around. Chances are their teacher has purchased everything but the desks.

Every year brings an increasing number of students with issues. The number of ESL students in our area is staggering. These kids are plopped down in regular classrooms speaking no English. They have no social skills and some have never been inside a bathroom before. Add to that mix all the kids with ADD/ADHD/OCD/autism and behavioral problems.

 

[Michelle GT]

Next time you are in your child's classroom take a look around. Chances are their teacher has purchased everything but the desks.


Oh really, I don't think so. I volunteer in the classroom on a monthly basis and I can tell you exactly where all those supplies in my child's classroom came from-ME!!!
the parents buy notebooks,pencils,glue,pens,art smocks,crayons,markers,tissues,ziploc bags etc for each of the school children. we are required to get these supplies before school begins.
I can understand that enrollment does effect the numbers of teachers. Because that is how it is in business. How many teachers do you know that have lost their jobs due to performance? How bad were they and how long did it take to get rid of them.
Education does not dictate salary. In the business world, they may pay for some of your education, but that doesn't guarantee a pay raise or promotion.
A teacher does not have the same job risks as others in the business world and if you think you should then I dare you to take your education and jump out there in the real world and see what you can do with it.. See how fair things are and how your pay raises compare and medical benefits keep rising.
You have no idea how it is or you wouldn't be complaining so much- and if I am going to be required to pay you more and more out of my taxes then I want some say in how you are teaching and how you are evaluated. I wonder if teachers would mind if they were tested and evaluated like business are. Let me tell you, it is not always fair and you have nothing to say about it but there is always the door...

 

[Michelle GT]

Also, since there is a disparity over pay in different parts of the country, why dont you just move. You could live in Bucks County, PA and make at least 60k-get parent to volunteer in the classroo and buy all of the supplies. And that is a salary for 10 months of the year.

 

[wasabi girl]

It might be just me but I think the real problem here is the insurance companies charging outrageous amounts for premiums....I'm self employed and my insurance is ridiculously expensive.

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by Michelle GT
I volunteer in the classroom on a monthly basis and I can tell you exactly where all those supplies in my child's classroom came from-ME!!!
the parents buy notebooks,pencils,glue,pens,art smocks,crayons,markers,tissues,ziploc bags etc for each of the school children.

Take another look around the classroom. How about the printers, ink, copier paper, books, prizes, computer programs, construction paper, dry erase markers, art supplies, decorations, etc...do you provide those supplies? Enough for 20-30 kids? Teachers making $25K here do that. BTW, we have no teacher's union here and everyone pays for their own health insurance.

If you want a say on how teachers are evaluated, go vote. They are evaluated more often than anyone I know that works in private industry.

 

[Michelle GT]

Bojangles- you are wrong!- When I volunteer- I make decorations- I pay for the dry erase markers- etc. and these teachers dont make 25k and I am not saying they dont pay for any of their supplies- But everyone pays for supplies when they work.-



Books- parents again- they have book fairs at school and teachers list all of the books they would like to have in their classrooms for the parents to donate!!!



People in business are evaluated by their performes every day. You have to work hard and succeed every day or it will be a great reason not to get a raise.

 

[Michelle GT]

wasabi girl- you are so right. I dont know how insurance premiums can continue to go up , yet the coverage goes down. It is a sin and the elderly are going to be facing some pretty hard times.