Greedy Teachers

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by Michelle GT
I pay for the dry erase markers- etc. and these teachers dont make 25k and I am not saying they dont pay for any of their supplies- But everyone pays for supplies when they work.-



Books- parents again- they have book fairs at school and teachers list all of the books they would like to have in their classrooms for the parents to donate!!!

It sounds like you live in a fairly wealthy, suburban school district. I have never seen more than 2-3 parents/year ever set foot in a school to volunteer, much less buy books or supplies.

 

[Mskanga]

Originally posted by Michelle GT
wasabi girl- you are so right. I dont know how insurance premiums can continue to go up , yet the coverage goes down. It is a sin and the elderly are going to be facing some pretty hard times.

BINGO!!!
It is a sin that some people cannot even afford to have medical coverage , and it is a sin that the elderly still have to suffer after working all their lives.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

Wooo hooo, Sorry, but I had to come back.

I buy supplies for my son's school as well. I think the poster should have been more specific. I think it is more like, teach in a title I school in the inner city, and I can guarantee you will be reaching out of your pocket.
I think the poster should have also said a lot of teachers get a measley $300 a year for supplies.
My team does not even have enough money to take the kids on a field trip. We are trying to come up with ways to earn money because the parents don't have to pay for the trips because their kids are on free and reduced lunch.
Do I need to pull out my reciepts and read the totals?
Office Depot
Wal-Mart
Target
things like Rugs
Bean bags
reading books from scholastic for their self selected reading. BTW, I have to get a whole new supply of books since I am no longer teaching middle school.
various foods for my international food tasting day,
and let me not forget xmas presents!!!!!!!!!!!

Why am I even explaining this is getting pointless. I guess I am trying to educate.

When I taught middle school only 5 out of 96 students paid for their book fees, which was only $5


Another thing, Michelle, the majority of the inner city mothers are not there. Are you near Aliquippa or Philadelphia? Why don't you do a little interviewing in the schools there and take a poll. That way the truth can hit you a little harder.

My son attends a school where the majoriy of the children can have discussions about different places and events.
The students I teach can not even tell you how to get to the city center from where they live. Do you think the parents who live in trailers and collect welfare can afford to supply the teacher with all the things they need??????

Why do you think the fed gov issued a $250 tax credit, which does not even make a dent in the amount I pull out of my own pocket a year?

 

[Purrrrfecta]

Originally posted by Bojangles
If you want a say on how teachers are evaluated, go vote. They are evaluated more often than anyone I know that works in private industry.

Yes, anyone can vote, but people need to be fully educated on the issues. I think those states with unions need to FULLY educate the people so they can stop being so resentful and angry.

I wonder how many people on this thread put up with all the bs of getting a master's degree to get a job?

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by Purrrrfecta
I wonder how many people on this thread put up with all the bs of getting a master's degree to get a job?

OK, I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but... LOTS of people need master's degrees in order to get a job. My older sister does, to be a librarian. My little sister does, to be a physical therapist. (Both are currently in grad school.) My best friend does, in order to be a priest. She needs a PhD in order to teach. (Religion generally isn't taught in high schools, so she would be teaching at the college level.) Another friend's husband needs his master's to get an engineering job. My DH has to get a master's if he wants to be promoted past captain. And, he doesn't get time off from the military to do it - he's going to be doing his online while he's deployed and working 14 hour days. So if that's not putting up with "all the bs of getting a master's degree to get a job," I don't know what is!

(Uh, I'm not really yelling, honest. Just mentioning that there are plenty of other careers that require master's.)

 

[Mskanga]

My team does not even have enough money to take the kids on a field trip. We are trying to come up with ways to earn money because the parents don't have to pay for the trips because their kids are on free and reduced lunch.

I have to pay for my kids to go on school trips, if I don't pay they don't go , and this is a school wide rule, if you want your child to go , you must pay regardless of if you get free or reduced lunch or not.
I also have to pay full price on lunches , I don't get a break.

reading books from scholastic for their self selected reading. BTW, I have to get a whole new supply of books since I am no longer teaching middle school.

Our teachers get books from the parents. Just last week we had our open houses and all of the teachers had their book wish list fulfilled and some of them even doubled.

When I taught middle school only 5 out of 96 students paid for their book fees, which was only $5

I guess we are lucky, we have no book fees in any schools , they are all included in the taxes.

I'm just curious though.....how much school taxes do you people pay in your areas?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Boy, the nitpicking and arguing have taken this thread way of topic!!!

First, I know somebody who lives in MI, and she says that for as long as she can remember it has been this way with their teachers...

Boy, what if every one of us working folks thought we should just up and strike and cause havoc with our employers and innocent children and families over $40.00


Also, we pay WAY more than this for our family insurance coverage.

Seems to me, if they are that unhappy and eager to walk out, then they ought to seek other jobs??????

As far as school fees... YES I paid a $10.00 'classroom ' fee. I spent plenty on all the items on the 'required supply list' at the first of the year.... I have donated to the fundraisers.... I have bought a book on my son's teachers Wish-list at the Book-Fair. I have already taken my time and supplies to complete TWO project assignments... The latest is an ocean-diarama (for a six year old ?????) etc... etc... etc..... This has just been in the first few weeks of this school year. WHERE DOES IT END!

And, these teachers are worried over $40.00....


YEAH RIGHT....

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by Wishing on a star

First, I know somebody who lives in MI, and she says that for as long as she can remember it has been this way with their teachers...

Maybe there is more to the strike than just $40. In any case, I think that a strike will do nothing but alienate parents and make the situation worse. My SIL teaches in MI and makes over $50K year and the cost of living in their area is pretty low. We are non-union and starting teachers only make $25K and the payscale doesn't go up a lot from year to year.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I wonder how many people on this thread put up with all the bs of getting a master's degree to get a job?

TF raises her hand. The number of professions available that don't require a Graduate level degree at some point in time to advance beyond entry level are dwindling dramatically. CPA exam requirements don't require a Master's Degree, but the number of Accounting credits required pretty much mean you will have earned a Master's degree by the time you meet them. I have a BS in Accounting and an MBA. I also hold several certifications in various programming languages. I have always had to pay for my own Cont Ed hours and classes, I have always had to pay for my own liscensure and membership in the AICPA, and I had to pay the tuition to earn my Master's degree. My husband as an engineer makes more money, but his hours are usually even more intense than mine.

Working as an Accountant and or as a Systems Analyst I have very seldom put in "only" a 40 hour week when employed full-time. 55 to 60 was more the norm, except during busier tax or audit seasons when I felt like somebody should just put a cot by my desk. My starting pay was in the mid-30's and that was for 12 months work, not the 10 months our teachers put in. I've never gotten 2 months off in the summer to complete my CE either. That has mostly been done at night on my computer or at weekend seminars.

My husband's work provides our Health insurance and we pay between $300 to $400 a month for a family of 5. We have a $500 Individual deductible with a $2,000 max for the family.

I'm just curious though.....how much school taxes do you people pay in your areas?

My school district amount of my Property Tax bill is around $6k this year. That is the amount that goes directly into our school districts budget - they also receive funds from the State and Federal Gov'ts. We have a School Tax increase vote approaching in November and currently I just don't feel I can vote for it. I'm spending too much on Private school tuition right now to be able to further fiscally support a school that I can't send my kids to because of failing educational and safety standards.

 

[kasar]

Frankly, I'm done with this thread. I just want someone to teach my children and deal with these other issues away from the classroom. If the teachers in our town decided to strike, we'd be sending in our private school tuition immediately.

 

[Jeafl]

Well, I can see both sides of the story since I am not a teacher, but I work at a school in educational support. I won't even bring up what I make because it is practically nothing. I knew that going in, and I am fine with it. I am also a taxpayer with 3 kids in the school district as well.

Since I started working at the school, my opinion of teachers has changed dramatically. I see on a daily basis what teachers have to put up with, since I am putting up with it as well. We have dozens of kids who speak only Spanish, Polish, Russian and even Portugese. They are thrown into regular classes, although we do have an ESL program that they attend as well. The behavior problems of kids take up an extraordinary amount of time. When the parents are called to address a behavior problem they are told to deal with it themselves "this is why we are paying you".

Although we are a fairly well-off school district, there all always kids who don't have the supplies they need. The teachers do go out of their way to make sure they have everything they need.
I also buy extra supplies at the beginning of the year since they are generally on sale and much cheaper than at other times of the year. Folders and pencils are generally less than a dime, so if all parents who could afford it would pitch in a dollar or two of extra supplies for the classroom it would take some of the burden off of teachers. I know some parents can't afford to do this, and that is fine too.

On the other side of the coin, I pay over $9100 a year in property taxes, of which around $4200 goes to the school district. They are many other things I would like to spend that $9100 on, but we chose to live in an outstanding school district so we pay it. I have many, many neighbors who beef about the taxes, especially the school district portion. These are also the neighbors who drive 2 Mercedes and go on several expensive vacations a year. It's all a matter of priorities. I don't begrudge them their cars or their vacations, that's what they choose to do with their money. However, I feel that our kids getting a great education is a much higher priority, so we stay where we are at, rather than move to where the taxes are lower.

The link of teacher's salaries by state was very interesting. If you look at the states that have the lowest average, they are also the states that have a lower cost of living. Kentucky is a good example. Sure the salaries are lower, but so is the cost of housing.

 

[Wishing on a star]

quote:
_______________________________________________

..... I work at a school in educational support. I won't even bring up what I make because it is practically nothing. I knew that going in, and I am fine with it.

...... I pay over $9100 a year in property taxes, of which around $4200 goes to the school district. They are many other things I would like to spend that $9100 on, but we chose to live in an outstanding school district so we pay it.
_______________________________________________


Boy, this post is really 'telling'. You work for the district, for next to nothing. You pay a whopping $9100.00 in property taxes, much of which goes to the schools. You do all of this so you can send your kids to an 'outstanding' school district... and yet you cannot firmly come out and say that is just down-right wrong for your kids teachers to pull all of this stuff and to Strike over something trivial that nobody else can even begin to THINK about striking over? Hhhhhmmm?????

So, You are saying that it is Okay that you are working hard and paying your dues so that your kids can have an education that you have already PAID for, but that they will not recieve if the teachers up and strike?

 

[totalia]

Originally posted by Bella the Ball 360
Purrrfecta I love your posts, I am truly getting burned with this post as well as with the attitude that we are "glorified babysitters" and should get paid as such. The debate is not so much the $40.00 of the original post, it is the feeling of most of society that we have some cushy job (as I had to wrestle a student who tore my room apart to the office the other day)or that we do not deserve the money we EARN!! The poster who alluded to the fact that other professions must keep up a license in fact referred to professionals who were not at the mercy of the school board for their salary. ALSO, these people earn more in a day than we earn in a week. My girl friend who is a hair dresser often earns between three and five thousand a week!! Tips are not included in this. We cannot even teach with less than 6 years of college..does it take that long to recoup the investment from training fo a hair dresser or even a doctor??

No one has called you a glorified babysitter. We have called teachers ungrateful for what they have. Most of the population can't even imagine the kind of money that a teacher makes.

Btw, 99% of hair dressers do NOT make that much money. Most of the hair dressers I know charge MAYBE $25 for a hair cut and half that goes to the company for chair rental, etc. My aunt is a trained hair dresser but got out of the business because she could make more cleaning houses. My sister's friend (also a trained hair dresser) is working at a factory because she can make $2000 a month there but not as a hair dresser. I don't know where your friend works but most hair dressers do not work with rich people.

I owe $40 000 for my education. I went to university for 2 years and college for 2. I MIGHT come close to what you make NOW by the time I turn 50 years old. Even if I got a degree in Archealogy like I would love to do, I still wouldn't come close to a teachers salary and I would be very lucky to find a job in it.

Originally posted by Michelle GT
Next time you are in your child's classroom take a look around. Chances are their teacher has purchased everything but the desks.


Oh really, I don't think so. I volunteer in the classroom on a monthly basis and I can tell you exactly where all those supplies in my child's classroom came from-ME!!!
the parents buy notebooks,pencils,glue,pens,art smocks,crayons,markers,tissues,ziploc bags etc for each of the school children. we are required to get these supplies before school begins.
I can understand that enrollment does effect the numbers of teachers. Because that is how it is in business. How many teachers do you know that have lost their jobs due to performance? How bad were they and how long did it take to get rid of them.
Education does not dictate salary. In the business world, they may pay for some of your education, but that doesn't guarantee a pay raise or promotion.
A teacher does not have the same job risks as others in the business world and if you think you should then I dare you to take your education and jump out there in the real world and see what you can do with it.. See how fair things are and how your pay raises compare and medical benefits keep rising.
You have no idea how it is or you wouldn't be complaining so much- and if I am going to be required to pay you more and more out of my taxes then I want some say in how you are teaching and how you are evaluated. I wonder if teachers would mind if they were tested and evaluated like business are. Let me tell you, it is not always fair and you have nothing to say about it but there is always the door...

Perhaps this is so where you are from. But I live in Canada and all of that is paid for by the gvt and STILL hear complaints about salary.

You know, there are alot of people with a masters degree that are lucky to have a job at all. Do you know how many students I have known that went to school for 6 to 8 years and can't even find a job? One girl i worked with was a cashier at Burger King and she simply couldn't find a job as a social worker and she tried. Hundreds and hundreds of applications. The problem was that there just weren't enough jobs to go around to all the new graduates and not nearly high enough pay (considering what she wanted). She was paying $450 a month to pay back all those student loans, living at home, and working at Burger King just to pay them. She is not the only person I have known to have this problem.

I'm a trained medical and legal secretary. I really hope I eventually find something in one of those fields but I don't hold much hope for it. I fully expect that I will probably end up answering phone for $8 an hour.

Originally posted by katerkat
OK, I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but... LOTS of people need master's degrees in order to get a job. My older sister does, to be a librarian. My little sister does, to be a physical therapist. (Both are currently in grad school.) My best friend does, in order to be a priest. She needs a PhD in order to teach. (Religion generally isn't taught in high schools, so she would be teaching at the college level.) Another friend's husband needs his master's to get an engineering job. My DH has to get a master's if he wants to be promoted past captain. And, he doesn't get time off from the military to do it - he's going to be doing his online while he's deployed and working 14 hour days. So if that's not putting up with "all the bs of getting a master's degree to get a job," I don't know what is!

(Uh, I'm not really yelling, honest. Just mentioning that there are plenty of other careers that require master's.)

Yes exactly. Teachers seem to think they are somehow special because they teach.

Originally posted by Mskanga
I have to pay for my kids to go on school trips, if I don't pay they don't go , and this is a school wide rule, if you want your child to go , you must pay regardless of if you get free or reduced lunch or not.
I also have to pay full price on lunches , I don't get a break.

Our teachers get books from the parents. Just last week we had our open houses and all of the teachers had their book wish list fulfilled and some of them even doubled.

I guess we are lucky, we have no book fees in any schools , they are all included in the taxes.

I'm just curious though.....how much school taxes do you people pay in your areas?

When I was in school, if you wanted a field trip, the students and teachers had to figure out how to do it themselves. I never thought there was anything odd in that. Every school I knew of did that.

We always had to bring lunch from home when I was in school until high school and then the students had to pay for lunch themselves from the cafeteria if they wanted it or bring it from home. There's no free lunch here.

Oh yes, teachers have it so hard. Parents pay for books, lunch, supplies and often for field trips as well (I remember the $300 we had to pay each to drive 5 hours to Edmonton to go see Phantom of the Opera).

Originally posted by Toby'sFriend
TF raises her hand. The number of professions available that don't require a Graduate level degree at some point in time to advance beyond entry level are dwindling dramatically. CPA exam requirements don't require a Master's Degree, but the number of Accounting credits required pretty much mean you will have earned a Master's degree by the time you meet them. I have a BS in Accounting and an MBA. I also hold several certifications in various programming languages. I have always had to pay for my own Cont Ed hours and classes, I have always had to pay for my own liscensure and membership in the AICPA, and I had to pay the tuition to earn my Master's degree. My husband as an engineer makes more money, but his hours are usually even more intense than mine.

Working as an Accountant and or as a Systems Analyst I have very seldom put in "only" a 40 hour week when employed full-time. 55 to 60 was more the norm, except during busier tax or audit seasons when I felt like somebody should just put a cot by my desk. My starting pay was in the mid-30's and that was for 12 months work, not the 10 months our teachers put in. I've never gotten 2 months off in the summer to complete my CE either. That has mostly been done at night on my computer or at weekend seminars.

My husband's work provides our Health insurance and we pay between $300 to $400 a month for a family of 5. We have a $500 Individual deductible with a $2,000 max for the family.

Exactly. Teachers are not unique in the requirements for their job though they like to think they are and seem to go on strike every year lately.

Though wow am I grateful I'm Canadian so my medical doesn't come remotely near to $300 to $400 a month. I'd cry if I had to pay that.

Originally posted by kasar
Frankly, I'm done with this thread. I just want someone to teach my children and deal with these other issues away from the classroom. If the teachers in our town decided to strike, we'd be sending in our private school tuition immediately.

Those strikes are the reason private school has become so popular and the only reason why I would even consider sending my kids (if I ever have any) to private school.

In my area, the most recent behavior was drawing the students themselves into the strike to get the teachers more money. The teachers were talking to their students about how little money they make in their classrooms during the day. When the teachers went on strike, they had the students sympathy and they joined the picket line with them.

Of course, the teachers points were to get smaller classroom seizes, more books, more supplies, and what became the most important issue, a raise. When the gvt gave them a raise, they gave up all the other points they had.

This behavior is shocking to me. Students should NOT be involved in a teacher strike in any way. Students are there to learn, not to be involved in the teachers problems and they shouldn't even know about the teachers personal troubles.

And how greedy is that to give in on all other points but the wage? The gvt had given thema choice, they could hire more teachers and give more money for books, etc, OR they could have a higher wage. The teachers chose the higher wage.

So our students continue to suffer with old books, fewer supplies, large classroom sizes and worse while the teachers got their raise for more money.

Greed is the only word for it. I find it disgusting and the gvt should have fired the whole lot of them.

 

[year2late]

Depending on the entire compensation package $40 a month may or may not be trivial. That $480 a year may be all but necesssary if they cannot even afford to live anywhere near the district in which they live.

That $40 a month may seem like alot if their medical insurance is crap and has high copays or high deductibles.


That $40 a month may not seem so trivial if that teacher has to buy supplies for the classroom that the district can no longer afford.

 

[Megan's Mom]

Let me just make one comment about the salary chart. This is an average chart and as it was explained to me Principals, Assistant Princ, 12 month Counselors etc are included in that list. I have taught now 18 years in Alabama and I can assure you I do not make 37,000 a year. I haven't read everything but they also take out for AEA and NEA dues which I would love nothing more than not to take out but in this day and time it is not wise to not have their coverage. I do not agree with hardly anything that NEA stands for but if I were to be sued they would protect me. Also every year that we get a raise our dues automatically go up as well. BTW we havn't gotten a raise in 3 years not even a cost of leaving increase that most workers get at the first of the year. someone asked about why a master's degree. Have you heard about No Child Left behind? Try reading a little of this "wonderful" bill and you might understand some of the headaches that have now been added to the teaching profession. And we no longer get three months off for summer because we get out of school the end of May and go back the first week of August. During that time it is expected that we work in our classrooms and attend workshops.

 

[RNMOM]

I am going to jump in here at great risk.

I am a nurse. I have been a nurse for 30 years. I too have to have continuing education, paid at my expense, to keep my license and pay for my own license. I have to work half the holidays, half the holiday eves and every other weekend, at least, all year. I get 3 weeks vacation time but can't take any over Christmas and can only take one week in the summer. I also have to work either the weekend at the beginning or end of my vacation. I pay nearly $100/ month for health care for my family. That is only if I use my hospital services. If we go elsewhere we have a huge out of pocket expense.

We have no union. No pension plan that continues from employer to employer. We are fortunate to have PERS as I work at a county hospital. All the jobs I have had in the past have not benefited me for my retirement at all, it is all lost. If I get additional education, good but I don't get compensated for it at all. It makes no difference in my retirement.
I have life threatening diseases to deal with everyday that might even be transmitted to me or my family. If I refuse to come in to work when called or stay at work when asked for overtime I can be fired on the spot. I have to carry liability insurance to protect myself from the fall out of lawsuits for other providers, not to mention if I were to make a mistake that harmed someone after being at work 16 hours straight.

I have lots of respect for teachers. I also have respect for everyone out there who puts in an honest day's work for their pay.

Do I feel teachers aren't always aware of how bad it can be out ther, you bet. Do I want them to loose what they have gained? No but I would like them to consider being more flexible.

 

[Jeafl]

Originally posted by Wishing on a star
quote:
_______________________________________________

..... I work at a school in educational support. I won't even bring up what I make because it is practically nothing. I knew that going in, and I am fine with it.

...... I pay over $9100 a year in property taxes, of which around $4200 goes to the school district. They are many other things I would like to spend that $9100 on, but we chose to live in an outstanding school district so we pay it.
_______________________________________________


Boy, this post is really 'telling'. You work for the district, for next to nothing. You pay a whopping $9100.00 in property taxes, much of which goes to the schools. You do all of this so you can send your kids to an 'outstanding' school district... and yet you cannot firmly come out and say that is just down-right wrong for your kids teachers to pull all of this stuff and to Strike over something trivial that nobody else can even begin to THINK about striking over? Hhhhhmmm?????

So, You are saying that it is Okay that you are working hard and paying your dues so that your kids can have an education that you have already PAID for, but that they will not recieve if the teachers up and strike?

Actually, in this particular case I don't think the teacher's should strike over $40 a month. I would not be happy about that at all if I lived there. I agree that $40 is not worth losing a paycheck over. My in-laws live in Michigan and many relatives work for the school district. Most are thrilled that they have a job at all. Many people work for the automotive industry (including my FIL and step FIL). When cars don't sell, Michiganders often lose their jobs no matter what their occupation is, because of a trickle down effect.

We pay a lot in taxes here to ensure that our teachers are well compensated to avoid a strike at all costs. In the 12 years I have had a child in the district there has never even been talk of a strike. Our teachers have worked without a contract before, but things have always been resolved to both parties satisfaction.

What I am saying is that teachers do put up with a lot of BS that most parents don't even realize unless they see it for themselves. I never had a clue until I started working there. I truly thought that teachers had it made with all their days off, but I see things a little more clearly now.

 

[LoraJ]

IMO teachers aren't paid enough!

I find it sad to call them greedy when they are the ones responsible for shaping young minds.

 

[bobcat]

After having been involved in a couple of contentious contract negotiations I highly doubt that teachers are willing to walk over just a $40 increase in health insurance. Some administrators like to let assinine negotiation points "leak" to the local media to make teachers look greedy. On the surface it looks rediculous that they would strike over that amount but it may just be the straw that breaks the camels back in a long list of other negotiated points. If you are concerned about your school district then I urge you to get involved and go to a board meeting or ask to meet with your local superintendent to find out what is going on. Many people are so quick to point out that it is their tax money that funds the schools then get off your butts and find out what is going really going on. You know what they say about assumptions...

 

[Purrrrfecta]

Originally posted by katerkat
OK, I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but... LOTS of people need master's degrees in order to get a job. My older sister does, to be a librarian. My little sister does, to be a physical therapist. (Both are currently in grad school.) My best friend does, in order to be a priest. She needs a PhD in order to teach. (Religion generally isn't taught in high schools, so she would be teaching at the college level.) Another friend's husband needs his master's to get an engineering job. My DH has to get a master's if he wants to be promoted past captain. And, he doesn't get time off from the military to do it - he's going to be doing his online while he's deployed and working 14 hour days. So if that's not putting up with "all the bs of getting a master's degree to get a job," I don't know what is!

(Uh, I'm not really yelling, honest. Just mentioning that there are plenty of other careers that require master's.)

You are right!!!! and thanks for listing them. and except for the religion professor, they make MORE money than teachers start out making.