Gratuities and Tipping !

[bicker]

Sometimes maturity means taking an unpopular stand and not doing something just because it's in accordance with the way things are.

Not at someone else's expense, no. Doing something that is ostensibly for personal gain isn't really "taking an unpopular stand".

 

[pigletto]

"if I knew going in that this is the way things are, I have no right to complain."
I agree to a degree. I can't say that I knew exactly what I was getting into before I did. I certainly expected to make alot more money than I did.. which is why I no longer do it.
However if we are going to use the prior knowledge takes away a persons right to complain then couldn't that apply to someone dining in a WDW restaurant as well? You know it's expensive, you know you are going to be recieving table service and that tipping is pretty much expected for a that service as long as it is decent.

 

[apostolic4life]

Why is that exactly? Would you perform your job duties better if you had to work for a tip? Are you saying you don't give something your all when you're guaranteed a paycheck?

The simple fact is when, less is expected less is often given (not every case, but often)...........reference the decline in service seen when the DDP included the 18% tip.

I tend to think most servers would bring a better attitude to work if they could stop worrying about those pesky things like groceries and doctors visits for the kids.

Good attitudes should be the norm of every emploee anyway!! Funny thing is, I still worry about groceries and doctor visits, but on top of that I have to be concerned with my employees welfare also! Running a restaurant is more than just paying servers.......if a restaurant closes it effects bussers, cooks, dishwashers, support services, venders and a hundred other folks, so don't over simplify by thinking we owners are carefree and servers are victims of some grand plot to hold them down. Oh yeah, we are also in the business to make money too.......so often people think if you own a business you are wealthy, but the fact is I have to work hard everyday if I want to get paid too; sometimes I may have to forgo my wages, but that probably does not concern most people since I am the big bad owner.

 

[Disney8704]

Wow thanks for your post. I was thinking about tipping mousekeeping, but never mind. If managament says its not allowed, well then, its not allowed.

Actually, we were told by the Mousekeeping Manager at Poly not to tip the Mouskeepers. The reason this subject came up: We left our room early (9am) one morning to head out for the day.......we came back late (10pm) only to find our room untouched, but the tip we left had been removed from the room. When we called down to the front desk they sent the housekeeping manager up to see the room and help get everything in proper order. I told him my biggest gripe was the tip we left was gone, but the room had not been touched; they had not even collected the dirty towels from the bathroom floor!!! That is when he informed us that those positions were non-tipped positions and the housekeepers were not allowed to accept tips.......he further explained that if policy allowed tipping of the housekeeping staff, some guests may not get proper service. The expectation, he said, was all guests were supposed to receive the same level of housekeeping and by accepting tips the CM's may favor one guest over another.

Sorry to be so off topic, but I just wanted to share a little factoid about housekeeping and tips.

 

[bicker]

Actually, we were told by the Mousekeeping Manager at Poly not to tip the Mouskeepers.

Yes, I learned the same thing from the GM of the BoardWalk Resort. The housekeepers at Disney resorts are not tipped employees like restaurant servers and bell staff are. It's quite a shock to some folks when they learn that. Tipping housekeepers in hotels wasn't a universal custom; it only was the custom in East Coast-based hotels. In West Coast-based hotels, housekeepers are paid a wage greater than minimum wage, and are non-tipped personnel. Disney's hotels are based on the West Coast model. The housekeepers in Disney's hotels get paid about the same as the custodians who clean up poo in the hot and sticky theme park bathrooms. I think the housekeepers actually got the better side of that deal!

 

[pigletto]

"bussers, cooks, dishwashers, support services, venders and a hundred other folks"
All of whom make a fixed hourly rate which everyone has no issue with. And apparently their job performance is fine or you wouldn't continue to employ them. But for some reason a server will become instantly lazy and slovenly if one removes the fear of not being tipped. Puh-lease.

 

[patsal]

Yes, I learned the same thing from the GM of the BoardWalk Resort.

I learned the same thing from a situation at OKW when the tip envelope was gone but none of the pick up was--we too had towels on the bathroom vanity sink--a manager stopped in to speak with us and explained that Mousekeeping at WDW is not a tipped position.

 

[pigletto]

"The simple fact is when, less is expected less is often given "
And by that logic why not pay all of those in your employ the bare minimum and reward them monetarily with a tipping system. Because nobody would work for you if you didn't pay them a competitve wage.... and I think the food service industry needs start demanding the same for themselves by way of a service charge.

 

[apostolic4life]

Yes, I learned the same thing from the GM of the BoardWalk Resort. The housekeepers at Disney resorts are not tipped employees like restaurant servers and bell staff are. It's quite a shock to some folks when they learn that. Tipping housekeepers in hotels wasn't a universal custom; it only was the custom in East Coast-based hotels. In West Coast-based hotels, housekeepers are paid a wage greater than minimum wage, and are non-tipped personnel. Disney's hotels are based on the West Coast model. The housekeepers in Disney's hotels get paid about the same as the custodians who clean up poo in the hot and sticky theme park bathrooms. I think the housekeepers actually got the better side of that deal!

Me too......picking up towels and changing sheets is much better than cleaning poo...........yuck!!!! Some of those WDW restrooms can get nasty too!

 

[fey_spirit]

Why on earth would you raise wages to 15$ an hour? My gf with the college degree doesn't even make that much money.

We should move to paying servers minimum wage, and raise prices in the menu to cover this new overhead.

Servers would revolt over this.........people take server jobs because they can be sources of quick cash and unreported income. Most servers like the idea of being able to go home some nights with tip money between $50 and $100+ for the 5-7 hours they work. If they were paid a flat hourly wage, many would leave the business. Even if you paid them 50% above minimum wage, they could not make the same money available in the tipping structure. To pay a "livable wage" ($10-$15/hour) every menu item would increase in price 100-200% to make up for it. Most restaurants operate on the basis of set formula of menu pricing to cover costs, a menu price breaks down in this range: labor 40-50%, food cost 30-35%, overhead 10-15%. This formula leaves little room for additional wages, waste or increased overhead. The only solution would be to jack up menu prices to cover new cost of the hourly wages. That is just the simple fact of the matter. The wages will be paid by the customer either in tipping or in greatly increased menu pricing.

 

[fey_spirit]

I believe that the only fair solution to any of this is moving to a system where servers are paid like everyone else.

I don't like supporting the current system, and believe we need to change it.
I could stay at home and not eat out - but that wouldn't in any way change anything. If enough people choose to eat out without giving in to the extreme pressure to treat tipping as some kind of moral obligation which insists that you are now responsible for this person and every member of their family, it will put pressure on servers who will in turn put pressure on their employers. As long as the current system works so well in the favor of both employers and servers noting will change.

I do tip, and I do tip percentage - but I start at 0% as my minimum and tip 10% for average service.
I think of a tip as something that is earned on top of their regular salary, not some moral obligation that I have to fulfill or rot in the little known 10th circle of Dante's Inferno.

Not at someone else's expense, no. Doing something that is ostensibly for personal gain isn't really "taking an unpopular stand".

 

[Quiksilvr]

I enjoy these tipping threads, so I will chime in. I've known a number of people over the years who cannot afford to tip, or who choose not to tip. My personal opinion is that, while there is a moral "difference" (i.e., a lack of ability irrespective of desire v. a personal choice for some unknown reason), the end result is the same; you have received service from a server for which you have not fully paid.

Anyone who disagrees with that is obviously free to do so, but my opinion is that once I sit down at that table and the server asks me what I want to drink and I respond "Diet Coke and a glass of water", I have entered into an unwritten contract with that server to pay him/her a fair compensation for the service provided. Custom says that this is 15-20%. I try to be as fair as possible to the server while not shortchanging my own experience.

Anecdotal evidence is often worthless, but I'll offer up an anecdote all the same. I took my father to a fancy restaurant in DC a few weeks ago because he never goes to those kinds of restaurants and I wanted him to have a great experience. I hadn't been to this particular place in quite some time so I hoped that is was as good as I remembered. One of the floor managers seated us and asked if we had been there before. I said that I had, but my father had not. He took it upon himself to make our experience as flawless as possible. My dad kept commenting on the perfection of the service (he couldn't get over the fact that one of our waiters had "dashed" to get something for him). I was ecstatic. It was everything I had wanted it to be.

I understand that there are people out there who think that this type of service is expected and paid for in the price of the food. Okay, I grant you the right to an opinion (and I acknowledge that the supporting arguments do have some weight). Regardless, I happen to disagree with that idea 100%. The people in that restaurant went out of their way to make the experience special, even though it wasn't really expected (it's not like I called them in advance). I tipped those guys a lot more than I usually do (there's no point in saying how much...I'm not looking to get flamed. Suffice it to say that it was enough that my wife gave me a hard time about it later). I don't regret it for an instant. I bought an expensive, but perfect experience from that waitstaff and I was more than happy to pay for perfection. I'm also more than happy to pay an adequate price for adequate service, and, while I won't say I'm happy to do so, I acknowledge my responsibility to pay for poor, even though I reserve the right to adjust downward accordingly.

 

[dbriggsq]

Coming from the UK, I have a problem with tipping. I've just made my ADR's for our trip this August for our 30th Wedding Anniversary where we will be a party of 10 which includes our 5 children and some of their partners - 5 of whom are not earning (ie students) I was told that an automatic 18% tip would be added to our bill. Now I have booked mostly buffet restaurants (for speed and choice) and only expect to see the servers to bring drinks and clear plates but am expected to leave around a $50 tip. We would be at a buffet restaurant maybe an hour an a half, 2 hours max - this is a fairly good hourly rate, especially since they will have other tables besides ours. I think this is excessive - especially when I don't even know what level the service will be.

Basically I think the restaurant should pay the server's wages - not me.

 

[bicker]

I believe that the only fair solution to any of this is moving to a system where servers are paid like everyone else.

Perhaps, but that's not something people can decide for themselves. Our society needs to make that decision en masse.

I don't like supporting the current system, and believe we need to change it. I could stay at home and not eat out - but that wouldn't in any way change anything.

Of course it would. If tipping causes people to stop dining out, it will change. I'm sorry but I see no other ethical option.

 

[Quiksilvr]

Perhaps, but that's not something people can decide for themselves. Our society needs to make that decision en masse.

Of course it would. If tipping causes people to stop dining out, it will change. I'm sorry but I see no other ethical option.

Agreed. It's not like Congress is going to pass a law instituting mandatory service charges for waitstaff or outlawing gratuities. There just isn't any push for that sort of thing because it's not something that people are really up in arms about. They've got other things to worry about...like steroids in baseball.

 

[stellablue]

But being a very poor server would result in poor tips, resulting in either a change in behavior or the need to switch positions to make a living. I would think just like any other profession if you are bad at it you wouldn't survive.

While that is true (people should change professions if they are not good at it), lousy or absent tips do not always equal being a poor server. The OP, himself, stated that he used to be a server for a regular customer who did not tip. From how he described it, it sounded like the OP was a great server who took pride in his work & in his company. It sounds like his job performance had nothing to do with this person's decision to tip.....

...which I why I think that it should not be our decision to make. Sometimes when you give people something optional (especially with money or giving to another), they take advantage of it or are not responsible with it. They find every possible justification about why they "decided" not to do it.

and to their defense, other posters are correct, they should not be forced to leave a tip. It's not fair for customers to have to worry about that extra fee. If it were already worked into the bill, people wouldn't think twice about it. & if it turned out that adding that extra 15-18% made the meal too expensive, than obviously they couldnt afford to eat there & would go to a restaurant that was more within their price range.

It just doesn't seem right to be to enter an establishment, use their facilities, & then have the right to decide whether or what you were going to compensate them for the services you already used.

 

[apostolic4life]

All of whom make a fixed hourly rate which everyone has no issue with. And apparently their job performance is fine or you wouldn't continue to employ them. But for some reason a server will become instantly lazy and slovenly if one removes the fear of not being tipped. Puh-lease.

Funny how argument for argument's sake seems to trump fact and logic in so many discussion threads!!!

The simple fact is unless customers are willing to pay considerably higher menu prices, wage structures for servers will not change. Of course, we could make every restaurant in the US quick service take-out and eliminate the server wage issue entirely, but I bet most people would not want to do that either.

Serving is a hard profession and is not for everyone. Those who do well love the system the way it is, those who do not make good tips want to change it. Things may change some day, but I won't hold my breath because I do not see many people that will be willing to offset the extra cost of higher wages by paying higher menu prices.......heck, when I have to make minimal adjustments to prices because of current food cost people go nuts, and those changes are often only by 10-20%.

Thanks for your opinions, but remember, opinions without substantiating facts are strictly argumentative.

 

[TiggerDad3]

Coming from the UK, I have a problem with tipping. I've just made my ADR's for our trip this August for our 30th Wedding Anniversary where we will be a party of 10 which includes our 5 children and some of their partners - 5 of whom are not earning (ie students) I was told that an automatic 18% tip would be added to our bill. Now I have booked mostly buffet restaurants (for speed and choice) and only expect to see the servers to bring drinks and clear plates but am expected to leave around a $50 tip. We would be at a buffet restaurant maybe an hour an a half, 2 hours max - this is a fairly good hourly rate, especially since they will have other tables besides ours. I think this is excessive - especially when I don't even know what level the service will be.

Basically I think the restaurant should pay the server's wages - not me.

I totally agree with you on this and feel fortunate at this point our group size is not large enough to have this service charge imposed on us.
If I did have a large group, I would pay the service charge at traditional Ts locations without hassle, but I would give disney quite a hassle when it came to the buffets!

 

[apostolic4life]

Why on earth would you raise wages to 15$ an hour? My gf with the college degree doesn't even make that much money.

We should move to paying servers minimum wage, and raise prices in the menu to cover this new overhead.

I do pay my servers minimum wage plus tips.........for full time personnel, we are even looking at profit sharing options. If I do not treat my workers right (no matter what their role), how can I expect them to give me everything if I am not willing to share the success they help me achieve!!!!!!

 

[mom2my3kids]

Coming from the UK, I have a problem with tipping. I've just made my ADR's for our trip this August for our 30th Wedding Anniversary where we will be a party of 10 which includes our 5 children and some of their partners - 5 of whom are not earning (ie students) I was told that an automatic 18% tip would be added to our bill. Now I have booked mostly buffet restaurants (for speed and choice) and only expect to see the servers to bring drinks and clear plates but am expected to leave around a $50 tip. We would be at a buffet restaurant maybe an hour an a half, 2 hours max - this is a fairly good hourly rate, especially since they will have other tables besides ours. I think this is excessive - especially when I don't even know what level the service will be.

Basically I think the restaurant should pay the server's wages - not me.

Here in the USA its how table service restaurants work, has for years and will be that way way into the future. I know its usually 2.13 a hour in most states some states a bit more where the cost of living is much higher. I know at my IHOP on a weekend day, running around like my head is cut off and literally not stopping from 6-2 I can usually make 100.00 in tips. Now on the weekdays its usually anywhere from 50.00-80.00 dollars depending on business and the tippers. But I am a good server, almost always on top of the tables and have lots of regulars. Hey some of them I talk to about Disney all the time and think alot of them. If you figure I work 40 hours a week, I CAN make around (low end) 310.00-440.00 (high end)a week in tips. This is working every Sat and Sun in that 40 hours, now around here that is okay money. What keeps me there is the flexibility they are, If I need a day off here and there its no problem, if I need more money I can work a double no problem. It's not easy work, I don't care what some people think. You get rude, obnoxious people every day but then you get the best people you could ask for. IHOP is no steakhouse and I am sure at more expensive places they can make lots more money but for a breakfast place I don't do bad. Florida the cost of living is a lot more then Indiana so those servers so deserve the tips on the overinflated Disney food. This is my personal opinion from a breakfast server..