Gratuities and Tipping !

[Brian Noble]

I, for one, despise the whole restaurant tipping concept.

In many countries (France, for example) mandatory service charges are common, rather than discretionary gratuities. Patrons often leave small change, up to a Euro.

Personally, I prefer the service charge model to the gratuity model.

 

[TiggerDad3]

"
Using a service and then paying for it is considered top of the line?
I wonder how people would feel if their job.. any job at all.. were dependant upon whether the people who use your services felt like it was extravagant to pay you?

The difference between a server and most other jobs is that the server is well aware of the risk they take by accepting the position, they are aware that there will be good days and bad ones and that sometimes they will get the big old "STIFF" ... (this in no way is an excuse to treat your server badly)!

When I was a waiter and BTW my spouse has also been a server....
most people tipped, some didn't, some tipped well, some tipped poorly, regardless of the tip I was still a representative of the business that I worked for and gave the best service I could to all. In some cases I knew that there was a regular who didn't tip.. I did not run from that table and try to give it to someone else, I gave that person the best service I could give, equal to that of anyone else. Grant it my smile was bigger and I was definately happy to see the regulars who tipped well, but I never neglected anyone.

 

[stellablue]

The difference between a server and most other jobs is that the server is well aware of the risk they take by accepting the position, they are aware that there will be good days and bad ones and that sometimes they will get the big old "STIFF" ... (this in no way is an excuse to treat your server badly)!

When I was a waiter and BTW my spouse has also been a server....
most people tipped, some didn't, some tipped well, some tipped poorly, regardless of the tip I was still a representative of the business that I worked for and gave the best service I could to all. In some cases I knew that there was a regular who didn't tip.. I did not run from that table and try to give it to someone else, I gave that person the best service I could give, equal to that of anyone else. Grant it my smile was bigger and I was definately happy to see the regulars who tipped well, but I never neglected anyone.

And in your current job, would you be ok with getting stiffed from your paycheck one month? No explanation to your boss, except "he couldn't afford to pay everyone this month"

Yes it is a risk, because you never know if you are going to get a customer who is going to take advantage of the situation, which is why I think that "tips" should be automatic service charges. The general public is just not responsible enough to leave it under their discretion.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I, for one, despise the whole restaurant tipping concept. I hate that restaurants pass the responsibility of paying their staff onto their customers-it's not fair to the server and it's not fair for the customer. Letting a common person decide the salary of another person just turns into a degrading power issue for many.

& I hate that they call it a "tip" because for servers it's not. In the US, a tip for a server is not actually a "tip" by definition-it's a service charge & thus, the server's salary.

My boss decided my salary when I got hired. She is experienced in choosing this salary for me. If I have a bad day one day, my salary still stays the same. I might get a talking to so I understand that I did something wrong, but my salary stays the same. & if I do something above and beyond, I get rewarded-whether that's with praise or a monetary bonus. My boss decides these things and she is a trained professional in this area.

Guests are generally not trained professionals to decide whether a server gets to pay his mortgage or rent this month. & guests often take advantage of this by finding fault with EVERYTHING just so they can justify leaving little to no tip.

We've all seen the clowns who present a pile of one dollar bills in the middle of the table and dramatically remove them one by one, each time they find fault in their server.

I can't even imagine how these customers would react if I walked into their place of business and announced that I was going to see to it that they would not be paid that day because you spent too much time on the Disboards when you should have been doing your work, or you were late getting back to me because you had been tied up at another meeting, or your parking lot was too full and I had to drive around looking for a spot, or your boss charges too much for your services so I'll just take your services and not pay for them....or maybe I won't give you any reason at all, I'll just pay you 25 cents for the day and let you figure out what you did wrong.

Ridiculous right? Because in most other lines of work, if a customer is having an issue with a service provided, they will speak to the manager or speak to that person directly. Not wait until the end of the job to speak up, or not speak up at all. Customers generally do not do this and therefore it should not be up to them to decide what to pay.

I have seen a few people comment that they will contact a manager as soon as a problematic issue arises and I sing these people's praises, but sadly, it's not the norm

I wish they would just change ALL tips to an automatic service charge that is already added to the total bill. Service charge would be whatever the U.S. tipping norm is. If a customer wants to leave more, they can. and if a customer has a problem with the service, they should do what you do in any other type of job situation-contact the manager. & if ya can't afford to leave the tip, than ya can't afford to eat at that restaurant.

Just my 2 cents.

One question why don't resteraunts pay a proper wage?

 

[pigletto]

The difference between a server and most other jobs is that the server is well aware of the risk they take by accepting the position, they are aware that there will be good days and bad ones and that sometimes they will get the big old "STIFF" ... (this in no way is an excuse to treat your server badly)!

When I was a waiter and BTW my spouse has also been a server....
most people tipped, some didn't, some tipped well, some tipped poorly, regardless of the tip I was still a representative of the business that I worked for and gave the best service I could to all. In some cases I knew that there was a regular who didn't tip.. I did not run from that table and try to give it to someone else, I gave that person the best service I could give, equal to that of anyone else. Grant it my smile was bigger and I was definately happy to see the regulars who tipped well, but I never neglected anyone.

Well then you were a decent server.. and a decent human being. You did your job as it was intended. As thousands upon thousands of servers do every single day.
I think this entire thread would be a non issue if we were to look at the fact that allowing the issue to become one of contention between service professionals and customers completely takes the focus from where it belongs.
If restaurant owners (Disney included) were to pay servers a livable wage rather than have them "sing for their supper" then the responsibility would be taken away from the guest. And servers would continue to do their jobs some poorly, many with extra care and attention, as in any other profession.

 

[TiggerDad3]

And in your current job, would you be ok with getting stiffed from your paycheck one month? No explanation to your boss, except "he couldn't afford to pay everyone this month"

Yes it is a risk, because you never know if you are going to get a customer who is going to take advantage of the situation, which is why I think that "tips" should be automatic service charges.

As i stated the difference between the 2 jobs is mine don't involve that risk, I am not in a tipped based profession.
And not all customers who don't tip to someone elses standards are taking advantage.
I don't agree with the service charge either... just a plain cost that covers the price of all overhead. Imagine if McDonalds stopped paying thier runners a wage and started charging a service charge based on the amount ordered to pay that employee. I know McDonalds is not a table service in most locations but that does relate similar to the buffets and tipping the drink filler.
After all disney already has the service charge to parties of 6 or larger and many many people are very unhappy about that.

 

[stellablue]

One question why don't resteraunts pay a proper wage?

I would love to know the answer to this question!! Why they don't just pay a regular salary to their servers, like in other countries.

Instead, for some reason they are given a pay of around $3.00/hour (which gets eaten up by taxes anyways) and say the rest can be made up in tips.

Anyone know why US restaurants decided to do it this way?

 

[Mackey Mouse]

"And in your current job, would you be ok with getting stiffed from your paycheck one month? No explanation to your boss, except "he couldn't afford to pay everyone this month""

Here is the thing.....it is hard to get this analogy as your boss paying you is not really voluntary. He hired you, maybe wrote a contract with your benefits and your salary, and then you do the job that you are hired for and he pays you what he said he would in the contract.

The only way this discussion could be settled is if Disney across the board added a 15 to 18 percent tip...or 20% to the check or if everyone stood up and took an oath that they promised they would tip when eating at WDW. It would take away your choice to tip or not and if you have bad service, truly bad service, then you would have to deal with a manager. Hopefully he would take your word for it and refund the tip portion of your bill.. I think it may be the way of the future at restaurants at Disney as it will be hard to keep them staffed it people are not tipping.

Discussion is healthy and we have been keeping this thread going for some time, thanks for staying within guidelines. The restaurant board moderators appreciate it.

ps.. two posts came in when I was writing this.. I do not know why servers are so poorly paid in the US. I know my mother relied on her tips......it was also cash, you know people like cash....for many reasons that I will not go into here.

 

[apostolic4life]

Yes it is a risk, because you never know if you are going to get a customer who is going to take advantage of the situation, which is why I think that "tips" should be automatic service charges.

I think the service charge route would lead to a decline in service quality. I know, you could always talk to the manager during service, but if the service declines across the board you may have a long wait for the manager to get to your table..........I prefer the tipping policies we have now; as a PP stated earlier, good servers work hard and put the guest first and this usually manifests as better tips which they are happy with. Yes, life as a server is hard, but that is part of the job as is the method of compensation.

It does not matter what is said here, or in any other thread, a person who wants to leave $0 for a tip will do it and find reasons for justification so they feel better. My suggestion is to tip accordingly in an objective manner (as most people do) and hope for the best from everyone else......we can never control the practices of other guests.

 

[KristinAnne]

Nonsense.

Going on a Disney onsite vacation, buying Deluxe DDP, eating at one of the better restaurants, and then trying to plead "poverty" is intellectually and ethically dishonest.

Going to any restaurant where you can't afford to tip is grossly rude.

Getting offended when many others point out the rudeness is just plain childish.

I agree with your point here. If one can afford to be on the DDP, then he or she can also afford to tip, and presuming the service was adequate, a tip is expected.
However, in defense of the OP, he said he does tip regardless of what his family did. Also, he did not pose the specific scenario of actually being able to afford the DDP (or DxDP) and not tipping. He simply asked about going into any restaurant and not tipping. IMHO, a family who could not afford to tip anything at all, they would not be likely to be on the DDP anyway (at least in my naive mind they wouldn't!). The fact is that there are families out there who might go out to eat to a reasonably priced restaurant and can really not afford to be there, but go for the sake of the well being of their family members. If they do not tip, then they should not be judged, nor should they be denied service.
That being said, I tip 18-20% most of the time, and when I don't, it's because the service did not deserve it.

 

[pigletto]

"I think the service charge route would lead to a decline in service quality"

Why is that exactly? Would you perform your job duties better if you had to work for a tip? Are you saying you don't give something your all when you're guaranteed a paycheck?
I tend to think most servers would bring a better attitude to work if they could stop worrying about those pesky things like groceries and doctors visits for the kids.

 

[Peepster]

Dear OP,

With no malice intended, it seems to me that you are very quick to judge those who differ with your view. Yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and consequent actions, but so are those who disagree.

Having been a restaurant owner for several years, I find it difficult to understand how you can afford a table service restaurant if you cannot afford to tip the servers. Servers, as has been previously stated, do not make an equal minimum wage in comparison to other workers. I suppose the restaurant industry could drop the custom of tipping and just raise the prices, but the gratuity method seems to me to be a good incentive for exemplary service or the converse is true, if a server offers poor service, they should not expect a generous tip.

That being said, while I do not respect your opinion I do respect your right to voice it.

 

[stellablue]

I The fact is that there are families out there who might go out to eat to a reasonably priced restaurant and can really not afford to be there, but go for the sake of the well being of their family members. If they do not tip, then they should not be judged, nor should they be denied service.

They shouldn't be judged for not paying for a service they accepted? or denied a service they refuse to pay for?

Sorry, but eating out at any restaurant (even McDonalds) is a priviledge, a luxury. If you can't afford it, than you can't go.

Geez, could you imagine if all of our salaries were based on the discretion of strangers from day to day? Talk about a recession in our country!!

 

[apostolic4life]

If restaurant owners (Disney included) were to pay servers a livable wage rather than have them "sing for their supper" then the responsibility would be taken away from the guest. And servers would continue to do their jobs some poorly, many with extra care and attention, as in any other profession.

Servers would revolt over this.........people take server jobs because they can be sources of quick cash and unreported income. Most servers like the idea of being able to go home some nights with tip money between $50 and $100+ for the 5-7 hours they work. If they were paid a flat hourly wage, many would leave the business. Even if you paid them 50% above minimum wage, they could not make the same money available in the tipping structure. To pay a "livable wage" ($10-$15/hour) every menu item would increase in price 100-200% to make up for it. Most restaurants operate on the basis of set formula of menu pricing to cover costs, a menu price breaks down in this range: labor 40-50%, food cost 30-35%, overhead 10-15%. This formula leaves little room for additional wages, waste or increased overhead. The only solution would be to jack up menu prices to cover new cost of the hourly wages. That is just the simple fact of the matter. The wages will be paid by the customer either in tipping or in greatly increased menu pricing.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Dear OP,

With no malice intended, it seems to me that you are very quick to judge those who differ with your view. Yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and consequent actions, but so are those who disagree.

Having been a restaurant owner for several years, I find it difficult to understand how you can afford a table service restaurant if you cannot afford to tip the servers. Servers, as has been previously stated, do not make an equal minimum wage in comparison to other workers. I suppose the restaurant industry could drop the custom of tipping and just raise the prices, but the gratuity method seems to me to be a good incentive for exemplary service or the converse is true, if a server offers poor service, they should not expect a generous tip.

That being said, while I do not respect your opinion I do respect your right to voice it.

One could return the question if you can't afford a proper wage how can you afford to run a business? Does everyone else who works for a wage just not bother? If you are not tipped in your wage do you not work? This is daft, in normal life if you are so bad you get the sack, if you are a waiter you expect a tip for being rubbish! Pay a wage and be done with it or put a service charge and be honest.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think the service charge route would lead to a decline in service quality.

It hasn't in countries where service charges are routine. As someone who dined several times in Disney restaurants recently with parties of 8 and 12 (where it was obvious to the server that s/he was getting at least 18%), I also can't say that service suffered in any way.

 

[stellablue]

Dear OP,

With no malice intended, it seems to me that you are very quick to judge those who differ with your view. Yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and consequent actions, but so are those who disagree.

Having been a restaurant owner for several years, I find it difficult to understand how you can afford a table service restaurant if you cannot afford to tip the servers. Servers, as has been previously stated, do not make an equal minimum wage in comparison to other workers. I suppose the restaurant industry could drop the custom of tipping and just raise the prices, but the gratuity method seems to me to be a good incentive for exemplary service or the converse is true, if a server offers poor service, they should not expect a generous tip.

That being said, while I do not respect your opinion I do respect your right to voice it.

I was just wondering, since you stated you are a restaurant owner, if you had any insight as to why the US chose to create our tipping system, instead of modeling after the regular wage server system they use in other countries?

Are restaurants in these other countries extremely expensive in order to accomodate this? (never traveled out of the US!)

Thanks!

 

[pigletto]

"Servers would revolt over this.........people take server jobs because they can be sources of quick cash and unreported income".
I think that's is a pretty huge generalization. Sure some would.. and others (including myself when I was a server) would love it. I did not have a problem waiting tables or dealign with the public. I had a problem with never knowing when I could pay my bills and have somethign extra for my children. Granted I worked in a very seasonal area so Winter was really really tight. I don't do it anymore because I decided to find more security and something better for my family. I did not take a server postion for quick unreported income. I took the job because in my seasonal tourist town it was one of the only things available at that time in my life.

 

[fey_spirit]

You know I keep seeing this argument - but the answer has to be "if I knew going in that this is the way things are, I have no right to complain."

Servers know the reality of this particular job when they choose to take it and they choose to take it because if the odds work out in their favor (and based upon posts made to these boards they quite often do) - they can make way more off those who for whatever reason tip extremely well to make a better living then they would at any other minimum wage job.

You gamble, sometimes you loose... but you still make the choice to place your bets.

"Bottom line is, we shouldn't shut people out of great vacation experiences just because they can't afford to do everything top of the line. "
Really?
Using a service and then paying for it is considered top of the line?
I wonder how people would feel if their job.. any job at all.. were dependant upon whether the people who use your services felt like it was extravagant to pay you?

 

[patsal]

One could return the question if you can't afford a proper wage how can you afford to run a business? Does everyone else who works for a wage just not bother? If you are not tipped in your wage do you not work? This is daft, in normal life if you are so bad you get the sack, if you are a waiter you expect a tip for being rubbish! Pay a wage and be done with it or put a service charge and be honest.

But being a very poor server would result in poor tips, resulting in either a change in behavior or the need to switch positions to make a living. I would think just like any other profession if you are bad at it you wouldn't survive.