Grateful Iraqis

[remyandhollandsmommy]

How did this turn into a political thread so quickly?? I just wanted to hear about how much our soldiers are appreciated, not who is a lying politician or not (IMO they ALL lie so what is the big deal?). I keep coming back to this to see non-political replies, but...

 

[richiebaseball]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
Gee, what a shame. We just won't play ball and let them get away with the "aren't things great in Iraq" Bush baloney.

And you seem upset because others won't let you get away with the "the whole country is a disaster and all the Iraqis hate us" Kerry krap.

Just one man's opinion.

Richard

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

I agree remyandhollandsmommy. It was intended to be a positive thread but really went astray. I won't return to this thread.

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by richiebaseball
And you seem upset because others won't let you get away with the "the whole country is a disaster and all the Iraqis hate us" Kerry krap.

Just one man's opinion.

Richard

FYI, I never said the "whole country is a disaster". There has been progress in Iraq, but that doesn't mean there aren't serious problems throughout the country.

And, yes, many Iraqis are grateful and did welcome us as liberators, but that welcome is starting to wear thin and most Iraqis now see us as occupiers.

And, yes, I do get upset when a foreign leader and the President of the US proclaim, in front of the world, Iraq is completely safe with the exception of 4 or 5 provinces. That is a complete and total lie when the facts are insurgent attacks are happening in every province in Iraq.

And, btw, in the interest of honesty, kindly point out where Kerry said "the whole country is a disaster and all the Iraqis hate us".

If you've got cards to play, put them on the table. That's my opinion.

 

[Elwood Blues]

The opponents of this war pretty much only post messages that are only about the bad things especially when someone who posts a message of good things. They criticize the administration at ever opportunity. They never seem post about anything good that happens in Iraq. The administration can never do anything right or good. They seem to be very pessimistic. I'm sure that nobody with a heart and soul want to see us fail in Iraq.


People who support the war, seem to post about the good things, the bad things, the mistakes the admin has made, the progress the admin has made. They seem to be very optimistic that we will succeed in Iraq.



Does anyone else see this or is just me?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by remyandhollandsmommy
How did this turn into a political thread so quickly?? I just wanted to hear about how much our soldiers are appreciated, not who is a lying politician or not (IMO they ALL lie so what is the big deal?). I keep coming back to this to see non-political replies, but...

Because certain people refuse to believe there can possibly be anything good going on in Iraq.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
FYI, I never said the "whole country is a disaster". There has been progress in Iraq, but that doesn't mean there aren't serious problems throughout the country.

And, yes, many Iraqis are grateful and did welcome us as liberators, but that welcome is starting to wear thin and most Iraqis now see us as occupiers.

And, yes, I do get upset when a foreign leader and the President of the US proclaim, in front of the world, Iraq is completely safe with the exception of 4 or 5 provinces. That is a complete and total lie when the facts are insurgent attacks are happening in every province in Iraq.

And, btw, in the interest of honesty, kindly point out where Kerry said "the whole country is a disaster and all the Iraqis hate us".

If you've got cards to play, put them on the table. That's my opinion.

You'd have more credibility if you could show us examples of when you cited good things happening in Iraq. I mean, how are we to believe you when you say "I never said the whole country is a disaster", when you continually post about Alawi lying?

 

[kozmo]

That was wonderful,see i would like to know if the President knows of this story,people love to hear positive info,so why is it ,we only hear the worst???

 

[Loftus]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Wrong. Perhaps you should read more. I'm not about to post the idiotic comments he makes regarding Kerry, but it's out there for anyone who cares to read it.

How about his stance on cracking down on illegal drugs?


A quick glance at his articles makes it quite clear that this ex-socialist isn't worth listening to.

That you admire him says volumes.

Before you jump all over me read the following:-

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=14027057&method=full&siteid=50143

http://youngcurmudgeon.typepad.com/blog/2004/08/christopher_hit.html

http://slate.msn.com/id/2105509/

http://www.slate.com/Default.aspx?id=2104549&

They are all anti-Kerry articles by Hitchens, who is vociferous in his support of the actions in Iraq.

I only did a search on Hitchens because after reading the previous post I confused him with his brother Peter who is an ultra-conservative. I do not recall reading anything by him before.

When you've done with that perhaps you would like to go back and find where I've said I admire him.

Then you can apologise.

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by dmadman43
You'd have more credibility if you could show us examples of when you cited good things happening in Iraq. I mean, how are we to believe you when you say "I never said the whole country is a disaster", when you continually post about Alawi lying?

Alawi did lie and Bush went along with it. How did Samarra go from being a success story on 9/23 and then 1 week later, the location of a pitched battle to take it back from the insurgents?

Allow me to play DStrawMan: Were Alawi and Bush lying about what was really going on in Samarra or were Alawi and Bush just completely unaware of what was going on in Samarra? So were they lying or are they just incompetent?

 

[Teejay32]

Neither. But I wondered about Samarra too. It's not a disaster or a killing field and it's not cooperating with American or Iraqi government forces either. That might still be okay, except for the upcoming elections in January.

So now we have an easy litmus test to tell if they're being run right or not - are you going to hold elections in January? If the answer is No, then they're "insurgents". They're no longer just protesting American occupation. And they're probably howling about the unfairness of it all this very moment...

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
Alawi did lie and Bush went along with it. How did Samarra go from being a success story on 9/23 and then 1 week later, the location of a pitched battle to take it back from the insurgents?

Allow me to play DStrawMan: Were Alawi and Bush lying about what was really going on in Samarra or were Alawi and Bush just completely unaware of what was going on in Samarra? So were they lying or are they just incompetent?

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Thanks for proving my point.

That you don't know what you're talking about...........y'er welcome.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
That you don't know what you're talking about...........y'er welcome.

You have posted postive things about Iraq? Show me where and I'll stand corrected.

 

[Rokkitsci]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Wrong.
A quick glance at his articles makes it quite clear that this ex-socialist isn't worth listening to.

That you admire him says volumes.

Are you upset that he has given up socialism?? If he were still a socialist, and spewed the LW propoganda, would you still ignore him?

Do you read the drivel published by the likes of Michael Moore, and Naom Chomsky? Are they your brand of "honest" thinkers?

Yes - I admire anyone's thought process who is intellectually honest. I may not admire the man, but I admire the thought processes and the ideas presented for discussion.

I love to discuss issues with opponents who have good reasoning skills.

This leaves you out, of course.

 

[Rokkitsci]

Originally posted by Loftus
If you do a search on Hitchens you will find that his position since 9/11 is now the polar opposite. His recent writings have been pro-bush and anti-Kerry.

I did not read all the links you posted in a later response, but I did look at the first three of them.

I never found a single phrase in those three links that praised Bush, other than in comparison Kerry, who Hitchens is obviously concinced is unfit to command.

I did find this quote from Hitchens concerning Kerry:

"We are looking at a man who would make, or would have made, a perfectly decent peacetime president."

This sounds a lot like praise of Kerry to me - except for the inconvenient fact that we are NOT in peacetime. Hitchens recognizes that national security cannot be handed over to an incompetent leader just because you believe in his 'peacetime' agenda when we are not at "peace."

There may be something hidden in the other links you posted - I just didn't take time to read them all. I am pretty sure that I understand Hitchens' dislike of Kerry vis a vis the war issue. I am pretty sure I know Hitchens' dislike of Bush on every other issue. I am not even sure he likes the Bush war record. But I do know he considers Kerry to be a more disastrous choice in a time of war than anyone else the Dems could have nominated.

Kerry is the worst of the lot - except for Dean, who never really had a chance.

I found in one of your links another of Hitchens' references to Bush as "dim-witted," just as I recall concerning his view of Bush. But Hitchens makes the point that the country is better off with a "dim-witted president who knows what he is doing", than a highly sophisticated blueblood who has no idea what to do - one who thinks he is "entitled" to the job.

If you find a quote from Hitchens that actually praises Bush, or even casts him in a good light in general (any thing but in comparison to Kerry's war competence) please copy it and post it. I have not seen him ever say that - anywhere - anytime.

 

[Rokkitsci]

Originally posted by remyandhollandsmommy
How did this turn into a political thread so quickly?? I just wanted to hear about how much our soldiers are appreciated, not who is a lying politician or not (IMO they ALL lie so what is the big deal?). I keep coming back to this to see non-political replies, but...

O dear Remy - don't you see??

The LW extremists have to trample down ANY discussion of what is going GOOD in Iraq. It is inconvenient to their agenda to have ANYONE talk about the GOOD things that are happening there.

To the radical LW - anytime someone posts something good about Iraq they must be robots of the evil Bu****es who are out to rob Iraq of its oil, place the country under the control of Haliburton, and poison our children.

To them, good news is not helpful at all. No announcement of good news is ever met with a "well done" or "thank goodness" or "its about time" or even a grudgingly muttered "good."

They must try to stamp out this "good news" for fear that someone else might hear it. If they cannot stop it - they then try to discredit it - or denigrate it.

As someone in another thread posted - they actually cheer bad news - the worse the better for them.

What is good news for America is bad news for Democrats - and vice versa.

 

[richiebaseball]

Originally posted by ThAnswr
FYI, I never said the "whole country is a disaster". There has been progress in Iraq, but that doesn't mean there aren't serious problems throughout the country.

And, yes, many Iraqis are grateful and did welcome us as liberators, but that welcome is starting to wear thin and most Iraqis now see us as occupiers.

And, yes, I do get upset when a foreign leader and the President of the US proclaim, in front of the world, Iraq is completely safe with the exception of 4 or 5 provinces. That is a complete and total lie when the facts are insurgent attacks are happening in every province in Iraq.

And, btw, in the interest of honesty, kindly point out where Kerry said "the whole country is a disaster and all the Iraqis hate us".

If you've got cards to play, put them on the table. That's my opinion.

Where did you get your information that most Iraqis see us as occupiers? I'd like to read that.
Actually the "Kerry krap" comment was for and about you and those Kerry supporters like you that only see the bad in Iraq. But I did pull these from the debate;

This president just -- I don't know if he sees what's really happened on there. But it's getting worse by the day. More soldiers killed in June than before. More in July than June. More in August than July. More in September than in August.

And now we see beheadings. And we got weapons of mass destruction crossing the border every single day, and they're blowing people up. And we don't have enough troops there.

Now, Prime Minister Allawi came here, and he said the terrorists are pouring over the border. That's Allawi's assessment.

I believe that's the only mention of Allawi's speech.

The national intelligence assessment that was given to the president in July said, best-case scenario, more of the same of what we see today; worst-case scenario, civil war.

So pretty much doom and gloom.

Here's my cards. Senator Kerry's running for President. I don't expect him to mention much if anything good that happens in Iraq. It wouldn't help his campaign. I get that.
Other than a "well, it's hard work" I don't expect President Bush to linger too long on the bad news.
John Kerry saw the same intelligence that the Bush administration saw. And voted to authorize war. I think he saw that most wanted it, so he went with it. I believe if Kerry had been President, had there been enough that wanted it, he would have invaded Iraq. Or he would have decided not to when France, Germany, and Russia balked. And we know why they balked. Either way, it ain't okay.

Again, the "Kerry krap" comment was actually for you and those like you. You need go no further than your first post on this thread to see what I mean. We can get plenty of bad news directly from the mainstream media. But hey, ratings are now their job.

I call.

Richard

 

[ThAnswr]

Originally posted by richiebaseball
Where did you get your information that most Iraqis see us as occupiers? I'd like to read that.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraq_poll/flash.htm (click on poll and the liberator vs occupier question is the 2nd one)


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-gallup-iraq-findings.htm

Clearly, Iraqi attitudes have changed and not for the better. And if their feelings towards Americans change for the worse, this does not bode well for the succes of the mission in Iraq.

Originally posted by richiebaseball
Actually the "Kerry krap" comment was for and about you and those Kerry supporters like you that only see the bad in Iraq.

Of course, there are some good things going on in Iraq, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not those good things are worth the lives, injuries, and tax dollars in relation to what we hope to accomplish in Iraq. The bad is getting worse and that will impact the mission.

You cannot just focus in on a new school opening up and call the mission a success when bombs are going off, violence is increasing and attacks against our troops is around 30-50 per day.

Originally posted by richiebaseball
But I did pull these from the debate;

This president just -- I don't know if he sees what's really happened on there. But it's getting worse by the day. More soldiers killed in June than before. More in July than June. More in August than July. More in September than in August.

And now we see beheadings. And we got weapons of mass destruction crossing the border every single day, and they're blowing people up. And we don't have enough troops there.

Now, Prime Minister Allawi came here, and he said the terrorists are pouring over the border. That's Allawi's assessment.

I believe that's the only mention of Allawi's speech.

The national intelligence assessment that was given to the president in July said, best-case scenario, more of the same of what we see today; worst-case scenario, civil war.

So pretty much doom and gloom.

And is any of the "doom and gloom" false"? Are things getting better or worse?

I say worse, and of course, YMMV.

Originally posted by richiebaseball
Here's my cards. Senator Kerry's running for President. I don't expect him to mention much if anything good that happens in Iraq. It wouldn't help his campaign. I get that.
Other than a "well, it's hard work" I don't expect President Bush to linger too long on the bad news.
John Kerry saw the same intelligence that the Bush administration saw. And voted to authorize war. I think he saw that most wanted it, so he went with it. I believe if Kerry had been President, had there been enough that wanted it, he would have invaded Iraq. Or he would have decided not to when France, Germany, and Russia balked. And we know why they balked. Either way, it ain't okay.

Again, the "Kerry krap" comment was actually for you and those like you. You need go no further than your first post on this thread to see what I mean. We can get plenty of bad news directly from the mainstream media. But hey, ratings are now their job.

I call.

Richard

Check.

 

[JPN4265]

Originally posted by Kendra17

Two Iraqis painted this mural to memorialize U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Todd Nunes, who was killed in action while serving in Kirkuk on May 2. The mural was painted on a wall leading to the compound where Nunes' unit is stationed.

This was in today's local paper. I am sharing it because I think some of the readers here need to see that some Iraqis are indeed grateful for our presence in Iraq and for their liberation--and that the Americans who have died over there have not died in vain. They have brought hope and a future to the Iraqi people.

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/04/09/58864873.shtml?Element_ID=58864873



It goes on to say. .. .

Worth a Bump!