GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[kymom99]

They were afraid that everyone would buy up supplies that hospitals would need. And then they screwed up their mask messaging. People make mistakes.

Exactly. But it’s not too late. The president could still ask people to wear them.

 

[GreatLakes]

Following some simple rules is exactly what we have to do, but evidently for some folks that is too hard to do.

I don't agree with you that most people that believe we reopened too quickly, have jobs or enough money to wait. I think most people that say we opened too quickly were seeing the large numbers of people that were protesting the stay at home orders, weren't wearing masks, didn't believe the virus was real and wanted the economy rolling at all costs.

If people don't follow the safety protocols, no one's going to be able to work for very long. If I'm at work doing my job and I'm subjected to many people everyday, co-workers and/or customers, some of us are going to get sick. How can my employer make any money and how can I, if I'm out sick? Perhaps my employer will have so many people out sick and for such a long time, that it's not economically feasible for that employer to stay open.

Yes, I know some people will have sick pay, but a lot, don't. It's not a simple answer, but our government should be able to figure something out, but they aren't even trying.

What is simple is wear a mask, wash your hands and keep at least 6ft from others.

Yes, this is what I meant. If everyone followed the protocols and just stayed home except for actual necessities while washing their hands, staying distant from others, and wearing a mask we would have shortened the length of the overall closings. Instead we (collectively as a society) protested the orders, went out to non-essential locations, gathered for protests and demonstrations, and generally just kicked the can down the road. Now we will open too quickly, see a spike, close again, complain and not listen to recommendations, and then rinse and repeat.

It is true some governors took this too casually as did our federal government but ultimately we, the people, just didn't do what was necessary to keep this from lengthening beyond what was necessary. Heck, if the governor said "all is open like it was in January" I wouldn't just do it, I'd still take control of my own health and continue to stay the heck home.

I also believe our general lack of health and our overall diet and lifestyle over the past decades contributed to this virus taking a greater toll on us that it should have and while I hope people learned the lesson that you build your immune system every single day by the way we live I suspect most didn't.

 

[wombat_5606]

Now we will open too quickly, see a spike, close again, complain and not listen to recommendations, and then rinse and repeat.

This winter, combined with the flu, is going to be......you know, I can't even find a word I want to use to describe what we are going to see.

 

[CarolAnn856]

If they had stated from the beginning when people were concerned about saying cloth masks would be a good thing, but instead they said that they weren't useful because they didn't want hospital supply to have an issue, yet the homemade cloth wouldn't have affected that. They botched the mask issue from the beginning.

I don’t buy that at all. If that’s the case, then why did people of a certain political persuasion seem to be capable of recognizing what happened and alter their behavior and wear masks, while the other half are still stuck with their heads in the sand?

 

[RamblingMad]

This winter, combined with the flu, is going to be......you know, I can't even find a word I want to use to describe what we are going to see.

What's going to happen in January and February next year? This is usually when the flu season really takes off after everyone has spread it during Thanksgiving and Christmas. I think, I'll watch Christmas X-Files episodes this year.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

I don’t buy that at all. If that’s the case, then why did people of a certain political persuasion seem to be capable of recognizing what happened and alter their behavior and wear masks, while the other half are still stuck with their heads in the sand?

There is a high correlation between knowing someone who has had coronavirus and realizing the gravity of the situation.

 

[Christine]

Which is why I said they should have started right off with cloth, since cloth wouldn't have affected hospitals.

Except that people still would have rushed out to get paper masks, anyway. I still prefer the paper. I had to purchase cloth masks, hate most of them, but will wear them. I don't think using the term "cloth" masks would have stopped the run on paper masks in the stores.

 

[skyblue17]

There really needed to be consistent messaging from the beginning. The whole plan of every state for themselves, with varying degrees of acceptance of what's happening, is part of the reason for what's happening.

 

[RamblingMad]

There is a high correlation between knowing someone who has had coronavirus and realizing the gravity of the situation.

If you look at the serology results, they show only 3-4% of the population has had it in some form. It's going to take months before begin to realize the gravity of the situation.

 

[kymom99]

There really needed to be consistent messaging from the beginning. The whole plan of every state for themselves, with varying degrees of acceptance of what's happening, is part of the reason for what's happening.

It was heartbreaking to hear our governor report that he could not secure PPE for our state. He said just when he thought he had a hand on some, FEMA would take it out from under him. It was a frightening and disheartening. And it made no sense. We should have been working together.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Except that people still would have rushed out to get paper masks, anyway. I still prefer the paper. I had to purchase cloth masks, hate most of them, but will wear them. I don't think using the term "cloth" masks would have stopped the run on paper masks in the stores.

You're right. People would have tried not only to buy surgical masks, but N95 masks, which our frontline healthcare workers needed more than any of us. I remember when they first came out and said that you could use a scarf, or a bandana and thought...."oh boy, we're in a pickle". I'm with you, I have been using level 3 surgical masks that I was lucky enough to receive from a friend in China as the numbers started to skyrocket in the northeast. I haven't worn a cloth mask yet, and hope to avoid. Former CDC head, Tom Frieden recently tweeted that the government should make it a priority to get surgical masks to Americans. They're far more effective than a bandana (almost useless), and other cloth masks.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

You're right. People would have tried not only to buy surgical masks, but N95 masks, which our frontline healthcare workers needed more than any of us. I remember when they first came out and said that you could use a scarf, or a bandana and thought...."oh boy, we're in a pickle". I'm with you, I have been using level 3 surgical masks that I was lucky enough to receive from a friend in China as the numbers started to skyrocket in the northeast. I haven't worn a cloth mask yet, and hope to avoid. Former CDC head, Tom Frieden recently tweeted that the government should make it a priority to get surgical masks to Americans. They're far more effective than a bandana (almost useless), and other cloth masks.

A recent study (cite) proved you can make cloth masks exactly as effective as surgical ones.

 

[fla4fun]

Did Florida mandate universal testing for all nursing home and long care facilities? My state did and we saw an increase in positive COVID19 testing but all were asymptomatic.

I know our county recently tested the two correctional facilities, and one of them as of yesterday, had over 120 asymptomatic cases (over 100 inmates and the remaining were correctional workers). I believe they were added to the count on Friday. With the shortage of tests, they just weren’t testing these facilities unless someone showed symptoms. I do not know if other counties were doing the same thing or not, but it’s possible that a large percentage of new cases could be due to things like this. I figure it’s probably 50% greater testing, and 50% covidiots, which is still too many new community spread cases.

 

[jlwhitney]

If you look at the serology results, they show only 3-4% of the population has had it in some form. It's going to take months before begin to realize the gravity of the situation.

thats 3-4% known cdc is estimating much higher closer to 8-9% on average. Which yes some places will be higher than others.

the situation can prove to be more , less or the same in severity as expected. We just don’t know what the coming months will prove.

 

[DLgal]

I also believe our general lack of health and our overall diet and lifestyle over the past decades contributed to this virus taking a greater toll on us that it should have and while I hope people learned the lesson that you build your immune system every single day by the way we live I suspect most didn't.

What I would like to know is, WHY hasn't the CDC, or any local health agency begun sending out messaging about what people can do NOW and into the future to improve their overall health and immunity? I mean, at this point, Vitamin D deficiency, obesity, and diabetes are KNOWN MAJOR risk factors for this virus and every one of them is PREVENTABLE (with the exception of T1 diabetes). Where is the messaging to eat a healthy, balanced diet, take a multivitamin with D, and get some daily exercise? These messages should be out there along with the mask, hand washing, and social distancing pleas.

I am getting so tired of seeing headlines of "healthy" people dying from Covid only to find a laundry list of their ailments or a photo showing an obese individual in the article itself. These headlines mislead people into believing that everyone is vulnerable to the same degree.

We have a lot of influence in how our bodies handle this virus and that narrative needs to start being told too. At this point, I feel like Americans (collectively) have just thrown up their hands and said "it's out of my hands, so be it." No. Get yourself as healthy as you can and start right now. It's never too late.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

What I would like to know is, WHY hasn't the CDC, or any local health agency begun sending out messaging about what people can do NOW and into the future to improve their overall health and immunity? I mean, at this point, Vitamin D deficiency, obesity, and diabetes are KNOWN MAJOR risk factors for this virus and every one of them is PREVENTABLE (with the exception of T1 diabetes). Where is the messaging to eat a healthy, balanced diet, take a multivitamin with D, and get some daily exercise? These messages should be out there along with the mask, hand washing, and social distancing pleas.

I am getting so tired of seeing headlines of "healthy" people dying from Covid only to find a laundry list of their ailments or a photo showing an obese individual in the article itself. These headlines mislead people into believing that everyone is vulnerable to the same degree.

We have a lot of influence in how our bodies handle this virus and that narrative needs to start being told too. At this point, I feel like Americans (collectively) have just thrown up their hands and said "it's out of my hands, so be it." No. Get yourself as healthy as you can and start right now. It's never too late.

ITA.

I recently saw two articles about the same “perfectly healthy teenager, with no underlying conditions, who took all the precautions” and still died. When I opened the article, the picture was of somebody morbidly obese and the article said he was a twin born at 25 weeks. Obese and premature (likely with lung problems born that early) is NOT perfectly healthy nor without underlying health conditions.

 

[DLgal]

ITA.

I recently saw two articles about the same “perfectly healthy teenager, with no underlying conditions, who took all the precautions” and still died. When I opened the article, the picture was of somebody morbidly obese and the article said he was a twin born at 25 weeks. Obese and premature (likely with lung problems born that early) is NOT perfectly healthy nor without underlying health conditions.

That was the article that pushed me over the edge with the "young, healthy" narrative.

 

[wombat_5606]

Get yourself as healthy as you can and start right now. It's never too late.

Maybe there is a lot of emphasis on obesity, because we have a huge problem with that in this country, but the statistics show a number of conditions that lead to hospitalizations that I defy you to fix by your diet or behavior.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

 

[choirfarm]

I feel like there’s something at play here in Florida (especially central) and I’m not sure what, but it definitely deserves some deep diving into the data.

we’re spiking here. Granted, most of the Florida spike is due to the southeast part of the state but we’re spiking as well.

The age of those tested positive has dropped significantly so maybe that’s why our hospitals are not overrun. By the numbers our hospitals should be looking how they did in NYC but they don’t. Is it a less affected group being infected now? Most reputable experts say that the virus can’t have mutated in a meaningful way so quickly so it’s not that the virus is weaker. I’m personally very curious as to what is happening here.

I think there’s two groups here that aren’t complying and I do think they’re different. Group 1 is teens and early 20s who are naive and ignorant and feel invincible. Look, I’d like to say I would have been smarter when I was that age but I did some super dumb stuff that I look back on in horror. This is the group I’ve seen in what little I go out, not wearing masks and getting too close.

May I suggest that the teens and early twenties are also the group that has the grocery clerk, fast food, etc type jobs that interact with the public a lot as well. They don't get to stay home and telecommute. Now I know some are reckless, but I bet the type of jobs they have play into it. When my middle one goes back to grad school he will also resume his barista job. Both being at a college and having that job will up his risk even if he tries to do the right things.

 

[AndreaA]

I don’t buy that at all. If that’s the case, then why did people of a certain political persuasion seem to be capable of recognizing what happened and alter their behavior and wear masks, while the other half are still stuck with their heads in the sand?

And yet we are seeing surges particularly in CITIES, which skew strongly to a certain political persuasion.

Some may want to make this a political issue, but in reality, it is not. Yes, Trump completely botched the initial messaging - but he was also being guided by people and organizations like the WHO, which at first said that the whole thing would be no big deal. Unfortunately his ego wouldn’t let him backtrack when better information came out, plus, being an election year, he wants to appear all “in control”.

In any event, I know people on both sides of the aisle who eschew masks, and on both sides of the aisle which strongly support them. There are conspiracy theorists out there, as always, but I can’t classify them as majority conservative or liberal. I know plenty of kooky liberals who think vaccinations are poison and that all we need is some organic produce and essential oils, while kooky right-wingers think Hillary and the Deep State are behind everything. Framing this discussion as right vs left only serves to alienate people. How about we instead work under the assumption that everyone would like to remain alive and healthy, and that some simply aren’t getting accurate information, with some thinking that what happens in “the big cities” won’t affect them, and others are extrapolating everything to a worst-case scenario even as actual studies provide a good amount of hope.