Grand Floridian shouldn’t allow non hotel guests

[Genie+]

Just borrowing this from the DVC Resort VGF thread from today…I’m just saying a dedicated GF guest queue would certainly make me feel a bit better than waiting in this line multiple times a day (visiting guests only have to deal with this once, those staying there will have to deal with this all day long, every day of their holiday trip). Frankly, Poly and CR should have one too, though I don’t think it gets nearly as bad as this. It’s not even the crowds for me. I know it was mentioned that they can’t do that because the monorail isn’t considered a ride, but there’s got to be something.

We have family staying at VGF, Poly and we’re at CCV next week, I’m going to have to time it to see how long it takes for everyone to get to the park on our MK days, maybe the boat will be better. For Epcot, I might just have those staying at VGF uber than battle this.

Those pictures don’t even show the extent of 7pm on a party night when it’s 10x worse, no joke. Wish I took pictures last year. Not only the monorail line backed up down and around but the ground floor was packed. We actually came across a guy losin’ it out loud, going on and on how he is never staying here again as he tried to make his way through the pathway at the lobby outskirt. We were on line for Gingerbread and that took over 40 minutes. The whole ground floor was filled with people and the entire ginger house half was denser than pea soup. It was the week before Christmas and an utter zoo.

We made friends with all the different people in line around us. One guy was a new Orlando resident whose friend offered $50 to mail him some cookies to Chicago lol. I think all of us we’re buying for ourselves and for other people as well.

 

[StarCruzer]

Not sure if anyone has said this, but the real solution is that they should have built a bigger gingerbread display in Communicore Hall in EPCOT. That's an area that has the space to accommodate larger lines/crowds. They could make an equal or bigger sized house in that space.

I don't own at GF; we've visited to see the gingerbread house and get cookies before but I honestly think it makes sense to have that be a perk of staying at the hotel only.

Also during this time of year it might make sense to restrict monorail use to resort guests (with ticket/MB scan at line entrance) and non-resort guests can be offered a bus instead. I think that would alleviate the transportation issue a bit--paying resort guests still get their exclusive monorail transportation, and non-resort/restaurant guests can still visit. It would likely discourage people from popping in just because it's convenient.

 

[DVCPAT]

Also remember, that the Disney monorail system was reclassified a few years ago as public transportation, just like the resort bus system, rather than a "ride," and as such, it would be difficult to put priority restrictions upon it.

The GF lobby is like grand central station that spills out into surrounding areas… it’s crazy and only going to get worse when the poly tower opens. If the gingerbread house is the attraction.. move it to an admission fee location.

 

[hockeydad21]

Seems like you missed my point

No, I got your point. I just wanted to call out that you’re comparing apples to astronauts.

At least find something remotely similar if you’re going to make a comparison.

 

[RMDVC24]

No, I got your point. I just wanted to call out that you’re comparing apples to astronauts.

At least find something remotely similar if you’re going to make a comparison.

Oh you certainly missed the point. I am not comparing the motivations of Vegas hotels to Disney Resorts. All I am saying is that resort hopping in WDW and Vegas is part of the experience. Comparing WDW to Vegas is 'apples to astronauts.' Comparing the basic premise of resort hopping is apples to apples, IMO.

Also, let's not forget that Disney likes to make every penny they can from all their guests. There is money to be made from allowing non-hotel guests into the deluxe resort lobbies

 

[AstroBlasters]

Oh you certainly missed the point. I am not comparing the motivations of Vegas hotels to Disney Resorts. All I am saying is that resort hopping in WDW and Vegas is part of the experience. Comparing WDW to Vegas is 'apples to astronauts.' Comparing the basic premise of resort hopping is apples to apples, IMO.

Also, let's not forget that Disney likes to make every penny they can from all their guests. There is money to be made from allowing non-hotel guests into the deluxe resort lobbies

If that entails resort guests having to wait over an hour to use the monorail to get to Magic Kingdom because of non-resort guests visiting the resort then something is broken.

It’s great for Disney that they created something so popular, but it’s pretty obvious that it materially harms the people paying or using points to stay at the resort.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Also, let's not forget that Disney likes to make every penny they can from all their guests. There is money to be made from allowing non-hotel guests into the deluxe resort lobbies

True, true. But is it enough to cover the potential loss of individuals yelling in the lobby they’d never stay there again and people threatening to sell their DVC contracts because of their diminished experiences?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

True, true. But is it enough to cover the potential loss of individuals yelling in the lobby they’d never stay there again and people threatening to sell their DVC contracts because of their diminished experiences?

People bellyache and then return time and time again. I highly doubt you have any appreciable amount of DVC people selling their contracts related to Christmastime festiveness. People tend to overestimate both their individual impacts to a company's bottom line and the number of people who shared their exact grievance especially to same degree.

 

[Genie+]

Has the gold bus returned? That would help both guests and non-guests alike.

The resort guests need to go out of their way instead of non-guests, which is questionable.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

People bellyache and then return time and time again. I highly doubt you have any appreciable amount of DVC people selling their contracts related to Christmastime festiveness. People tend to overestimate both their individual impacts to a company's bottom line and the number of people who shared their exact grievance especially to same degree.

I actually don’t disagree with you. It’s one of the reasons why significant change never occurs within TWDC, despite the loud complaints over the internet. But this is a more micro level look at these kinds of transgressions.

Grand Floridian already struggles with occupancy compared to the other deluxe resorts. You don’t need all that many people to make a noticeable change in occupancy and cash flow. 10 people deciding their $5K-$10K, trip isn’t worth it because why pay to stay somewhere when you’re getting a worse product than if you stayed somewhere else and just did what everyone else does and just visit, will certainly be noticeable to the building GMs. Again, maybe not a big deal to the greater company but that’s a lot of gingerbread they’ll have to sell to make up for even a small handful of upset individuals. I just don’t think it would be all that difficult, nor all that expensive to find a reasonable solution for all parties.

 

[Chuck96]

(Joining a conversation already 12 pages in progress...)

Our first stay at VGF was the year we bought in (2022), and we stayed the week before Christmas (we left on Dec 23rd). The lobby was always packed, and it could certainly be overwhelming. I never really got to enjoy it while staying there that week. So I have a lot of sympathy for the OP perspective. Part of it is just that proximity and GF's reputation as the "flagship" resort. I myself like to visit other hotels when we visit, so I can't begrudge the non-resort visitors at my hotel.

That said, it is a premium to stay there (cash or points), so Disney may want to ensure that both resort guests and non-resort guests enjoy their time at the hotel. Gun to my head, I'd certainly agree that there needs to be a monorail line for resort guests and a monorail line for non-resort guests. "Membership" has its privileges. I don't think you can reasonably limit the crowd in the lobby, though.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I actually don’t disagree with you. It’s one of the reasons why significant change never occurs within TWDC, despite the loud complaints over the internet. But this is a more micro level look at these kinds of transgressions.

Grand Floridian already struggles with occupancy compared to the other deluxe resorts. You don’t need all that many people to make a noticeable change in occupancy and cash flow. 10 people deciding their $5K-$10K, trip isn’t worth it because why pay to stay somewhere when you’re getting a worse product than if you stayed somewhere else and just did what everyone else does and just visit, will certainly be noticeable to the building GMs. Again, maybe not a big deal to the greater company but that’s a lot of gingerbread they’ll have to sell to make up for even a small handful of upset individuals.

I hear you but really it's still not likely to be anywhere near the impact people want it to be is my point. Even multiple DVC owners have stated they knew what they were getting into and it's not a big deal to them.

It has to be large impact and over time such that they can figure out it's a pattern then they need to figure out is the pattern related to these holiday decorations and activities because that's when they'll remove them or change their procedure on them. Even if you send out a survey asking if this is a big deterrent it's much more likely to be human nature that people will still book there or that enough people will take over their spots. I'm not saying they won't do something, even something in the near future, but people saying they will sell off their DVC contract because of gingerbread houses and actually doing it is just not likely. And people saying they will stay elsewhere and actually doing it is also just not likely. It doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to complain about it it's obviously a shared enough experience.

They aren't looking to sell gingerbread to recoup their costs, I'm sure they lose money on that part actually based on how much the materials cost to create the house and the employee manhours.

 

[Genie+]

I actually don’t disagree with you. It’s one of the reasons why significant change never occurs within TWDC, despite the loud complaints over the internet. But this is a more micro level look at these kinds of transgressions.

Grand Floridian already struggles with occupancy compared to the other deluxe resorts. You don’t need all that many people to make a noticeable change in occupancy and cash flow. 10 people deciding their $5K-$10K, trip isn’t worth it because why pay to stay somewhere when you’re getting a worse product than if you stayed somewhere else and just did what everyone else does and just visit, will certainly be noticeable to the building GMs. Again, maybe not a big deal to the greater company but that’s a lot of gingerbread they’ll have to sell to make up for even a small handful of upset individuals. I just don’t think it would be all that difficult, nor all that expensive to find a reasonable solution for all parties.

There’s been quite a few people who sold off VGF contracts due to the mix of holiday resort experience being far from what they expected and home priority availability. It does move the needle. VGF resale still commands high enough price to switch out to another resort without taking much, if any, of a financial hit. Helps when making that type of decision. Still - thought they’d love years/decades of holiday VGF then the non-guest impact dispelled that notion.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There’s been quite a few people who sold off VGF contracts due to the mix of holiday resort experience being far from what they expected and home priority availability. It does move the needle. VGF resale still commands high enough price to switch out to another resort without taking much, if any, of a financial hit. Helps when making that type of decision. Still - thought they’d love years/decades of holiday VGF then the non-guest impact dispelled that notion.

You'd really want to actually post the concrete evidence on that one to make such statement and it wouldn't be posters stating things. People say all sorts of things on the internet, doesn't make it true.

 

[AstroBlasters]

There’s been quite a few people who sold off VGF contracts due to the mix of holiday resort experience being far from what they expected and home priority availability. It does move the needle. VGF resale still commands high enough price to switch out to another resort without taking much, if any, of a financial hit. Helps when making that type of decision. Still - thought they’d love years/decades of holiday VGF then the non-guest impact dispelled that notion.

With the dues so low, you don’t need to sell off the resort… you can just stay somewhere else and let Disney try to rent the room out.

 

[Genie+]

You'd really want to actually post the concrete evidence on that one to make such statement and it wouldn't be posters stating things. People say all sorts of things on the internet, doesn't make it true.

Well I tried to look it up here but the blowout sale in 2022 is dominating the searches, as it is on google and reddit. I’ve been very active in the DVC boards for well over 5 years now and have come across this aspect many times when owners are discussing their DVC strategies for add-ons and removals.

Maybe some of those people can raise their hand if the holiday non-guest impact played into why they sold off their VGF. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well I tried to look it up here but the blowout sale in 2022 is dominating the searches, as it is on google and reddit. I’ve been very active in the DVC boards for well over 5 years now and have come across this aspect many times when owners are discussing their DVC strategies for add-ons and removals.

Maybe some of those people can raise their hand if the holiday non-guest impact played into why they sold off their VGF. Thanks in advance.

The claim made was people sold or will sell and that Disney's bottom line will be affected because of these holiday decorations and activities. People can sell off for many reasons and even if they as another poster said stay elsewhere and retained their contract Disney gets money from that anyhow. It's very difficult to discern that people were selling off due to these decorations even if they state it on the DIS (which is why I said it wouldn't be posters stating it). Human nature says people may say they have a frustration with X but they will ultimately still deal with it. And if you're willing to offload an entire DVC contract because of a 2 month time period well you're probably in the minority or as other DVC members have stated didn't realize what you got yourself into going in the busiest time of the year but that does not mean it's the fault of the decorations themselves and such that Disney themselves see the financial hit in enough ways to do something about it. I'm sure if changes are done to it in the future multiple possible reasons will be poured over here on the DIS

Now home availability which you mentioned? Well that is much more logical to have been a reason, not everyone purchases at a particular resort for home availability but it's pretty reasonable that an owner who does may find dissatisfaction in not being able to do so especially repeatedly.

 

[Genie+]

With the dues so low, you don’t need to sell off the resort… you can just stay somewhere else and let Disney try to rent the room out.

That is true. Still before and after VGF 2 went on sale people were sharing how they sold VGF and used those proceeds to buy CCV or BLT etc either to make profit or get more points in exchange, and also mentioned this holiday madhouse aspect as part of the decision. With add-on-itis around here it is popular to buy different home resorts to match travel patterns, like one resort mostly to use for spring and another for fall/holiday when that home priority matters. If Wilderness Lodge is now their preferred less stressful option for repeat holiday trips, that 11 month window matters and is why some people sold VGF to pick up CCV active direct.

 

[Genie+]

The claim made was people sold or will sell and that Disney's bottom line will be affected because of these holiday decorations and activities. People can sell off for many reasons and even if they as another poster said stay elsewhere and retained their contract Disney gets money from that anyhow. It's very difficult to discern that people were selling off due to these decorations even if they state it on the DIS. Human nature says people may say they have a frustration with X but they will ultimately still deal with it. And if you're willing to offload an entire DVC contract because of a 2 month time period well you're probably in the minority or as other DVC members have stated didn't realize what you got yourself into going in the busiest time of the year but that does not mean it's the fault of the decorations themselves and such that Disney themselves see the financial hit in enough ways to do something about it. I'm sure if changes are done to it in the future multiple possible reasons will be poured over here on the DIS

Now home availability which you mentioned? Well that is much more logical to have been a reason, not everyone purchases at a particular resort for home availability but it's pretty reasonable that an owner who does may find dissatisfaction in not being able to do so especially repeatedly.

Yes because they thought they wanted home priority at VGF and then later saw maybe that wasn’t the best option for their repeat holiday trips because that zoo aspect.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes because they thought they wanted home priority at VGF and then later saw maybe that wasn’t the best option for their repeat holiday trips because that zoo aspect.

Why wouldn't you just use the points to the best of your ability elsewhere for 11 month availability? I mean sure if you're looking to off load because you want to purchase elsewhere maybe at a lower amount but if you use that rationale that is something that is not related to these gingerbread houses but instead is an issue with an individual person and with that would be something that could impact every resort.

You buy a DVC contract for a resort located right by MK, on a monorail line, and book during the busiest times of the year get home priority and you're unexpectedly surprised at the crowds of said resort? That's a "you" issue truly. But for the sake of argument for every person who does that others step into their place. The conversation thus far has been "it's so bad Disney must do something about it, they are losing money or will lose money if people book elsewhere (cash bookings) and cancels DVC contracts and people have been canceling contracts due to the amount of people during the busiest time of year" But where is the evidence that the holiday decorations are the reason or the only reason people are selling their contracts, that people who say they sold have actually sold (if I had a dollar for every time a poster said "I'm done with Disney..") and that this is affecting Disney financially to the point where they will have to do something about it? That was why I mentioned people overestimate things.

I do think it's a good point that they can relocate elsewhere (as that's a more simple approach) but it's going to be far more of an in depth decision on the part of Disney looking at all the ways they make profits there and what ways they know for sure are reasons there's any loss in profits than I think much of the discussion that has been had on this thread.