Graduation Tests?

[disney junky]

PA had just passed into law what are being called Keystone Exams. There will be a series of nine tests which must be passed in order to graduate. There are certain options schools and students will be given; for example, passing an AP test will be a viable substitute.

As a teacher, though I don't find high stakes testing all that valuable, these tests have some teeth to them. Kids are willing to blow off standardized tests that have no apparent value or consequence, but these shift the emphasis to student performance rather than teachers' ability to prepare kids for tests.

What are your feelings? I know some states have had these for awhile.

 

[HeatherH]

California has had high school exit exams forever. They are a joke.

Kids take them as sophomores. My daughter literally ACED the test. Didn't miss any. Granted, she is a very bright "A" student, but the vast majority of kids (at least in our school) pass them as sophomores.

Does that mean they don't need two more years of high school?

Honestly, the standards are SO low that any child who can't pass the exit exam (and they can continue to repeat it, and they get INTENSIVE tutoring on the subject matter) has some learning issues or disability, or they just don't care.

So yeah, I think exit exams, at least in our state, are worthless.

 

[Kathi OD]

We have them in NJ. I just administered them last week. The math section is HARD! HARD! HARD!

Any student who isn't on a college track has little chance of passing the math part. It's heavy with both geometry and algebra 2.

This year I have to give an End of the Year test for anyone who took Biology. It's not required to pass it for graduation....yet. If it is anything like the sample I saw a couple of years ago, it's hard too.

For a lot of kids, all these tests do is stress them out. The test is so rigorous, that the state needed to come up with an alternative for those that don't pass because there are so many.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

We have them in NJ. I just administered them last week. The math section is HARD! HARD! HARD!

Any student who isn't on a college track has little chance of passing the math part. It's heavy with both geometry and algebra 2.

My DD (only child) is heading to high school next year, so I'm completely out of the loop on these things. She's signed up for the honors program, but I can't imagine how everyone will pass these exams. I never had to take geometry when I was in high school. I do see, though, that the standards have changed immensely. Now mandatory 3 years science, history, math. When I went it was only 2 years of each.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

Wouldn't that deter less-than-stellar students from making an attempt at graduation?? I can't help but think if a student doesn't think he/she will pass the exam, then he/she will put more serious thought into dropping out.

I think this is really short-sighted and I don't think they powers that be have really thought about the long term ramifications. Since this is PA we're talking about (my state,) I wonder who got money in their pockets for this one. <eye roll>

 

[agnes!]

My DD (only child) is heading to high school next year, so I'm completely out of the loop on these things. She's signed up for the honors program, but I can't imagine how everyone will pass these exams. I never had to take geometry when I was in high school. I do see, though, that the standards have changed immensely. Now mandatory 3 years science, history, math. When I went it was only 2 years of each.

In our system it is:
4 years of *each* core subject (social science, English, Science, Math) plus other requirements:
+ 2 years of PE
+ 1 year of personal finance (new for incoming freshman)
+ 3 years of one language or 2 years of 2
+ a fine arts "elective" component (that's required)

It certainly is A Different World.
agnes!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

In TX they have that. It was a huge stink every yr due to the number of kids not allowed to walk across the stage with their classmates because they failed the state tests, even though they passed their classes.

Missouri does not have them.

 

[agnes!]

Oh, and here they have mandated state tests at the end of the year for certain classes/subjects but the HS kids I know say they're not too incredibly rigorous. Want to hear what the acronym for them is?

SOL.

agnes!

 

[DBL101]

California has had high school exit exams forever. They are a joke.

Kids take them as sophomores. My daughter literally ACED the test. Didn't miss any. Granted, she is a very bright "A" student, but the vast majority of kids (at least in our school) pass them as sophomores.

Does that mean they don't need two more years of high school?

Honestly, the standards are SO low that any child who can't pass the exit exam (and they can continue to repeat it, and they get INTENSIVE tutoring on the subject matter) has some learning issues or disability, or they just don't care.

So yeah, I think exit exams, at least in our state, are worthless.

Actually, they are new to California. I believe this will be the 4th year they have been given. There are a lot of issues on both sides, but I do understand the concept. There are two "targets". First of all, they begin giving the tests early in high school so that they can identify which students need help in which areas while they still have time to work on it. Secondly, they want to make a diploma mean more than 12 years of baby-sitting. Too often kids just keep getting passed to "move them along" even if they haven't learned much. The tests are standardized across the state to try and make sure all students have at least the same basic knowledge.

 

[georgina]

I know our suburban district is all up in arms about them, but I think there are districts in the state that need them. If they are anything like the PSSA's they are replacing, they will be pretty basic tests. If kids pass them, it will show that at least they have some minimum level of knowledge. If they don't, the district needs to do something to improve. A high school diploma should mean the student has achieved at least a basic knowledge.

 

[Pigeon]

I'd be opposed. The testing is so far overboard, the last thing we need is to add more.

 

[flipturngirl]

I am shocked that they do high school exit exams. I did not have to take them. You can do AP if you want to get college credit in some classes. I strongly recommend doing that to any high schoolers out there who want to get some classes out of the way. But an exit exam on top of all of the other high school requirements. I understand it but I know here you have to do the senior research project and other things to graduate. IT almost sounds like the GED test that I know many of my friends had to take for one reason or another.

 

[trip]

In TX they have that. It was a huge stink every yr due to the number of kids not allowed to walk across the stage with their classmates because they failed the state tests, even though they passed their classes.

So, the kids that don't "walk across the stage", do they get some kind of diploma?

 

[golfgal]

Mn has them as well. They are not terribly difficult. They are designed to test basic competency, not as college entrance requirements. They are geared toward the 8th grade level or so. In our district most of the kids pass easily, generally the only ones that don't pass are those not capable of passing (special ed kids) and there are provisions for that. I think this style is a good idea, basically it makes sure kids can read, write and do functional math that will get them trough life. It isn't designed to fail kids that are not good students because there are always going to be some kids that no matter how hard they work will never be better then a C student.

 

[Kathi OD]

Mn has them as well. They are not terribly difficult. They are designed to test basic competency, not as college entrance requirements. They are geared toward the 8th grade level or so. In our district most of the kids pass easily, generally the only ones that don't pass are those not capable of passing (special ed kids) and there are provisions for that. I think this style is a good idea, basically it makes sure kids can read, write and do functional math that will get them trough life. It isn't designed to fail kids that are not good students because there are always going to be some kids that no matter how hard they work will never be better then a C student.

I wouldn't have a problem with a test like that, but a test where the students need to have a very good grasp of both geometry and higher level algebra is too rigorous IMO (and that's what the NJ test is like). While the entire test isn't made up of questions that hard, there are enough that it frustrates students who don't have a good grasp of those concepts. I wish I could post some of the questions my students had to try and answer last week.

 

[Mrs. Chamberlain]

California has had high school exit exams forever. They are a joke.

Kids take them as sophomores. My daughter literally ACED the test. Didn't miss any. Granted, she is a very bright "A" student, but the vast majority of kids (at least in our school) pass them as sophomores.

Does that mean they don't need two more years of high school?

Honestly, the standards are SO low that any child who can't pass the exit exam (and they can continue to repeat it, and they get INTENSIVE tutoring on the subject matter) has some learning issues or disability, or they just don't care.

So yeah, I think exit exams, at least in our state, are worthless.

I took it last year. They have 7th and 8th grade math and English on it. If you can't pass that, you shouldn't be able to graduate.

 

[minkydog]

PA had just passed into law what are being called Keystone Exams. There will be a series of nine tests which must be passed in order to graduate. There are certain options schools and students will be given; for example, passing an AP test will be a viable substitute.

As a teacher, though I don't find high stakes testing all that valuable, these tests have some teeth to them. Kids are willing to blow off standardized tests that have no apparent value or consequence, but these shift the emphasis to student performance rather than teachers' ability to prepare kids for tests.

What are your feelings? I know some states have had these for awhile.

We have HS graduation tests in GA, too. My oldest son, Mr. I-don't-do-homework-and-I-skip-class, passed them on the first try--and he had never taken any math higher than Algebra 1. But very year we see teens on the news, crying and cursing because they took that test 5 times already(the limit) and now they can't graduate with a real diploma (I think they get a certificate of attendance, or some such nonsense.) I mean, how dumb to you have to be? And you know their dumb parents are right up there behind them screaming discrimination of one sort or another. I don't get it. Open book. Read pages. Take notes. Pay attention in class. Pass test.

 

[golfgal]

We have HS graduation tests in GA, too. My oldest son, Mr. I-don't-do-homework-and-I-skip-class, passed them on the first try--and he had never taken any math higher than Algebra 1. But very year we see teens on the news, crying and cursing because they took that test 5 times already(the limit) and now they can't graduate with a real diploma (I think they get a certificate of attendance, or some such nonsense.) I mean, how dumb to you have to be? And you know there dumb parents are right up there behind them screaming discrimination of one sort or another. I don't get it. Open book. Read pages. Take notes. Pay attention in class. Pass test.

I know-your son sounds like my son and he got all 4's and 5's on the various parts (scores of 0-5). His English teacher kept telling us he was going to have a hard time passing the English portion because his writing skills were so bad--they aren't actually bad when he tries. He got a 5 on that (much to the chagrin of a friend of our's DD who graduated #1 in her class, was editor of the school newspaper and is an English and communications major in college and got a 3-minimum for passing--we aren't quite sure how that happened). I agree, if you can't pass these tests, you shouldn't be able to graduate-barring any disabilities that prevent that.

 

[minkydog]

I know-your son sounds like my son and he got all 4's and 5's on the various parts (scores of 0-5). His English teacher kept telling us he was going to have a hard time passing the English portion because his writing skills were so bad--they aren't actually bad when he tries. He got a 5 on that (much to the chagrin of a friend of our's DD who graduated #1 in her class, was editor of the school newspaper and is an English and communications major in college and got a 3-minimum for passing--we aren't quite sure how that happened). I agree, if you can't pass these tests, you shouldn't be able to graduate-barring any disabilities that prevent that.

That reminds me--DS has severe learning disabilities, ADHD, and bipolar disorder. And he *still* passed the tests on the first try. We are stumped.

 

[itsheresomewhere]

I heard on the news that they want to make them harder and have more of these tests. Something about making a national standard thing. Now I wonder if anyone who decided this can pass the test.