Gondola/Skyliner details?

[Raya]

Is there a thread with all of the gondola news and details? I'm wondering about opening dates, and how they'll work. For example, we were at CBR and noticed the gondola building is a bit of a walk outside of the resort property. Is that true for all resorts? Will gondolas run before park open and close, or just a 'as needed' thing?

 

[Ladyfish77]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...pdated-5-22-19.3578988/page-368#post-60697802

 

[sethschroeder]

I dont think there is that in-depth of information yet. You can find out where the stations are if you really want but open date and travel times are not published.

Do know that there is a transfer station at Caribbean Resort. Supposedly they travel roughly 11 MPH but who knows after its actually going if that speed will be kept or they need to slow it down further because of guest transfers.

Another tricky one is what do they do about the Riviera? They can't fill every gondola with people leaving no space for people at a Deluxe resort to get on because of people getting on from a Moderate or transfer from HS/other resorts.

 

[seashoreCM]

Very easy to send out empty gondolas from Epcot or Caribbean Beach to pick up Riviera riders.

Very easy (using gondola technology) to slow down the gondolas as they pass through the station to unload and load, and resume speed upon exiting the station. Quite easy to slow down the overall loop a small amount if there is a backup at one of the stations.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Another tricky one is what do they do about the Riviera? They can't fill every gondola with people leaving no space for people at a Deluxe resort to get on because of people getting on from a Moderate or transfer from HS/other resorts.

I disagree that this will be tricky. Just load passengers in the order they get in line

 

[sethschroeder]

I disagree that this will be tricky. Just load passengers in the order they get in line

Okay and when there is a line at Epcot or Caribbean resort what do you do? Every carriage will be already full when it gets to Riviera.

So yes it is tricky as you have to purposely leave empty/partly empty carriages to allow space for the midway station at Riviera. Unlike a subway where some people get off at each stop most people will be going to the final destination (Epcot or Caribbean station).

 

[sethschroeder]

Very easy to send out empty gondolas from Epcot or Caribbean Beach to pick up Riviera riders.

And if there is a line at Caribbean/Riviera already wanting to get on? Especially at Caribbean since its a main hub and the first couple years you are going to get a ton of additional traffic using it between HS/Epcot as opposed to the boats just to try it.

I never said it was impossible just that it was going to be a tricky balance while they figure out how to balance the system for the traffic it gets. I also was specifying that we don't know travel times again because of how that balancing happens with slow downs and such.

 

[seashoreCM]

Hand out little red cards on lanyards to selected guests as they join the various queues for the gondolas and collect the cards as the guests board the gondolas. A computer connected to the various spherical mickey head sensors on pylons or cigarette pack sensors on columns used to scan the cards will collect and digest wait times to make it easier to manually balance the number of gondolas dispatched empty for Riviera guests.

Or just eyeball the queues.

I think that most guests wishing to joyride on the gondolas will do so in the middle of the day when park going and park exiting crowds are smallest. Also park hopping between Epcot and Hollywood Studios will be mostly midday.

 

[writerguyfl]

Okay and when there is a line at Epcot or Caribbean resort what do you do? Every carriage will be already full when it gets to Riviera.

So yes it is tricky as you have to purposely leave empty/partly empty carriages to allow space for the midway station at Riviera. Unlike a subway where some people get off at each stop most people will be going to the final destination (Epcot or Caribbean station).

While mostly new in the United States outside of ski resorts, there's nothing new happening at Disney World in terms of gondolas. Disney has partnered with the world's leading gondola company: Dopplemayr. Dopplemayr has over 15,000 ropeway systems have been installed in 95 countries on six continents.

https://www.doppelmayr.com/en/the-group/facts-and-figures/
Disney purchased the top-of-the-line system from the company. That system uses the Doppelmayr Connect technology, which includes touchscreen computer terminals at every station. If empty gondolas are needed at an intermediary station, I have no doubt they can be requested with a simple tap on the touchscreen.

https://www.doppelmayr.com/en/components/doppelmayr-connect/

 

[sethschroeder]

I have no doubt they can be requested with a simple tap on the touchscreen

You don't seem to be understanding what I am saying. At a certain point there is a maximum threshold. But I guess you are trying to say there is no way resort+park to park transportation will ever exceed the capacity.

Also a company being world leading gondolas doesn't mean they have dealt with the complexity/volume of riders of the Disney system (hence the requirement for people to disembark at Caribbean to make the turn towards Epcot or Hollywood studios). You likely will try to explain this away via "complexity" but that is my whole point of the middle Riviera station.

Hopefully they open the system prior to Riviera being launched so that they can get a better day to day understanding of the volume of visitors prior to opening a Deluxe resort on the line.

 

[seashoreCM]

One reason for designing the system with the required transfer at Caribbean Beach was that, if something broke then more of the system would still be in service compared with combining, say, the Pop Centry/Art of Animation route with the Hollywood Studios route.

Meanwhile, if Riviera had its own line to CBR then there is an increase in total passenger miles. . All the Riviera guests to and from Epcot will still be riding the Epcot segment back past Riviera.

 

[Disneypro1]

I disagree that this will be tricky. Just load passengers in the order they get in line

Agreed. These gondolas will be great. The line never really stops. There will always be people getting off and others getting on. Super simple and efficient.

 

[writerguyfl]

Also a company being world leading gondolas doesn't mean they have dealt with the complexity/volume of riders of the Disney system (hence the requirement for people to disembark at Caribbean to make the turn towards Epcot or Hollywood studios). You likely will try to explain this away via "complexity" but that is my whole point of the middle Riviera station.

So, you're saying that nothing in those 15,000 ropeway systems Doppelmayr has done is as complicated? That's just silly.

Experience matters. Nothing Disney is doing is unique. I have full confidence that every concern ever posted here on Disboards about the gondolas is something that has already been discussed with by Doppelmayr, Disney, or both companies.

Without a doubt, Doppelmayr/Disney has run computer simulations to see how the system functions at high traffic times (park opening and closing). They used the results to make informed business decisions prior to investing a single penny in the system. I'm confident it will move more guests than the current modes of transportation. And, it will move those guests quicker.

You don't seem to be understanding what I am saying. At a certain point there is a maximum threshold. But I guess you are trying to say there is no way resort+park to park transportation will ever exceed the capacity.

I never made that claim.

Rather, I'm saying that if there are lines at the intermediate station (Disney's Riviera Resort) and no empty gondolas, the system (or an operator) will notify the origin station to send some empty gondolas. That action might cause lines at the origin, but the wait shouldn't be onerous given the continuous loading nature of the system.

 

[sethschroeder]

So, you're saying that nothing in those 15,000 ropeway systems Doppelmayr has done is as complicated? That's just silly.

This likely is their largest visitor throughput on a single (split) system that they have had. So it will only be a portion of the total visitors that want to try it out but Disney draws 50m annually sitting only behind 2 other attractions globally for number of visitors. Even if you want to say most people are counted multiple days and divide by 7 (generous vacation length) you are at 7.1m people coming in at number 50 (Taj Mahal pulls in 7m annually).

Now you can say not everyone will try it but at the same time you are going to have 1000s of people riding it multiple times a day who are staying at Gondola resorts.

Doppelmayr/Disney has run computer simulations

Never said they didn't but those simulations are not perfect and can only go so far for accounting for real world issues. Trying to account and plan for all the tricky issues/situations they are going to run in to and plan for them.

I'm saying that if there are lines at the intermediate station (Disney's Riviera Resort) and no empty gondolas, the system (or an operator) will notify the origin station to send some empty gondolas. That action might cause lines at the origin, but the wait shouldn't be onerous given the continuous loading nature of the system.

Except what is that balance between holding up people at the parks vs resorts? Do you have a dedicated line for the Riviera where every 3rd box is filled with people who will get off at Riviera allowing for easier loading?

To say its not tricky is selling it WAY short. Just because they can solve the issues doesn't mean it won't be tricky and won't run into issues that they likely will solve and optimize over the weeks and months after launch. If it wasn't tricky then why even run simulations of crowd patterns? Tricky =/= impossible, it just means people on this board can't come up with the solution of how its going to exactly work with wait times/ride time.

Basically its like saying its not tricky to run the Disney bus system. Just because they solved the issue doesn't mean its not tricky.

 

[kaytieeldr]

To say its not tricky is selling it WAY short.

To say Dopplmyer and Disney haven't considered and resolved or are resolving any potential hiccups is selling both companies way short.

 

[seashoreCM]

Quick and dirty. Art of Animation has about 2000 units. Caribbean Beach 1500 units. Pop Century 2900 units. Riviera 300 units. Total 6700 units. About 5 percent are Riviera therefore about one in 20 gondolas should go empty out of CBR for Epcot in the morning to handle Riviera guests. A more accurate split would be had by using the previous night's occupancies in terms of persons including children.

 

[joelkfla]

Experience matters. Nothing Disney is doing is unique.

I believe the setup of having a 2nd load loop at each terminal for wheelchair loading is unique, and complicated by having an intermediate station without the loop. And the percentage of wheelchairs, scooters, and just generally slow-moving seniors is probably much higher than has been dealt with on any similar system. Probably true for the number of strollers and very young children, as well.

 

[one_cat]

I believe the setup of having a 2nd load loop at each terminal for wheelchair loading is unique, and complicated by having an intermediate station without the loop. And the percentage of wheelchairs, scooters, and just generally slow-moving seniors is probably much higher than has been dealt with on any similar system. Probably true for the number of strollers and very young children, as well.

SKI resorts deal with an intermediate or midway station all the time. There’s a scientific basis for it leaving every other or every third gondola free. Wheelchair and scooter load and unload may be interesting and may slow things down but nothing could be worse than the time consuming process of loading a scooter onto a bus.