Go back to showing hotel ids for transportation?

[spiceycat]

believe me if this is happening again - Disney is losing fees.

this is one company that doesn't like to lose fees - especially to hotels.

going this Sept - if I stay at Congress Park will just ask everyone how they liked their hotels and where are they staying - some won't answer - yes I know my questions can be rude. but some will.

won't be surprised if this is happening again - Disney stops it before I go. they can definitely place cm here to be very friendly and ask... or even follow.

everytime an offsite bus goes to a theme park - Disney gets money. So yes would be very surprised if disney (not DVC) is very, very interested in this.

 

[Simba's Mom]

going this Sept - if I stay at Congress Park will just ask everyone how they liked their hotels and where are they staying - some won't answer - yes I know my questions can be rude. but some will.

I think this is a great idea-asking people around you on the bus how they like their hotel. Then, when you get back, you can use that information to let DVC know about guests not from SSR using the SSR buses.

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Except that it is not any advantage to Disney if the parking lots fill early with park goers. If the good spots are filled with park goers, there is no steady flow of shoppers, there are aggraveted people wanting to shop or dine and unable to find parking to do so.

Great point. That lot near World of Disney used to be empty early on a weekday morning and getting in some last minute shopping used to be a piece of cake. Not any longer. Now that lot is jam packed first thing and with the construction in the center you need to park beyond Pleasure Island a lot of times. Not so convenient when your intention is to pick up a last minute gift or two when it's really hot. And at night, forget it . Plan on the Westside.

I think it's time for validated parking and a return of the DTD to Park busses. Disney should not use SSR owners and their dues to guarantee the continued success of DTD. They can afford to do it themselves. Our dues can be used for other things like improved mousekeeping or dishwashers for those glasses in the studios!!! We're still waiting.......

 

[TDC Nala]

I think this is a great idea-asking people around you on the bus how they like their hotel. Then, when you get back, you can use that information to let DVC know about guests not from SSR using the SSR buses.

Would that have included me, an SSR owner who was staying at the BWV and trying to use the SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park?

How do you state that only guests from SSR can use SSR buses? What if they want to go eat at the Turf Club (which I really liked by the way)?

 

[Simba's Mom]

Would that have included me, an SSR owner who was staying at the BWV and trying to use the SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park?

How do you state that only guests from SSR can use SSR buses? What if they want to go eat at the Turf Club (which I really liked by the way)?

I hadn't thought of that. I stand corrected.

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Would that have included me, an SSR owner who was staying at the BWV and trying to use the SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park?

How do you state that only guests from SSR can use SSR buses? What if they want to go eat at the Turf Club (which I really liked by the way)?

It's two totally different things to use the bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park or to use the bus to go eat at the Turf Club. One is a legitimate use of the SSR busses and one isn't. (Based on the assumption that only SSR dues pay for SSR busses). Even though you are an SSR owner, by hopping an SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island you could be preventing an SSR family from getting back to their room without waiting for multiple busses. And based on my last experience with the busses, things were getting bad enough to be that picky about it.
That said, all onsite guests should have access to DTD and it should be directly from the parks at Disney's expense.

 

[spiceycat]

Would that have included me, an SSR owner who was staying at the BWV and trying to use the SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park?

How do you state that only guests from SSR can use SSR buses? What if they want to go eat at the Turf Club (which I really liked by the way)?

only looking for offsite guest not onsite.

 

[crisi]

It's two totally different things to use the bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park or to use the bus to go eat at the Turf Club. One is a legitimate use of the SSR busses and one isn't. (Based on the assumption that only SSR dues pay for SSR busses). Even though you are an SSR owner, by hopping an SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island you could be preventing an SSR family from getting back to their room without waiting for multiple busses. And based on my last experience with the busses, things were getting bad enough to be that picky about it.
That said, all onsite guests should have access to DTD and it should be directly from the parks at Disney's expense.

Who determines legitimate? Was my case legitimate - I'd gone to DTD to eat (and get annual passes) and was interested in going to a park. I wasn't trying to avoid parking fees - I had an AP. Is it legitimate if you swing by the DVC sales center? Or if you just want to take a walk around the lake and check out the resort? What about someone who started at a park, then hopped to DTD for a mid afternoon break, and is now going back to the park? Is there going to be 20 questions when you get on the bus so the bus driver can determine legitimate?

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Who determines legitimate? Was my case legitimate - I'd gone to DTD to eat (and get annual passes) and was interested in going to a park. I wasn't trying to avoid parking fees - I had an AP. Is it legitimate if you swing by the DVC sales center? Or if you just want to take a walk around the lake and check out the resort? What about someone who started at a park, then hopped to DTD for a mid afternoon break, and is now going back to the park? Is there going to be 20 questions when you get on the bus so the bus driver can determine legitimate?

I guess to my way of thinking, if SSR owners are solely paying for the SSR busses with no subsidizing from Disney the only "legitimate" use of SSR busses is to use them to get somewhere on SSR property for whatever reason. It is not reasonable to expect SSR owners to subsidize DTD which is what they are in effect doing by providing bus service for everyone else who is in the parks or is staying somewhere else onsite.

Honestly, I know that if you're in a park and you need to get to DTD you have no choice but to take an SSR bus. This is no one's fault but Disney's. But, I have also had the experience of being on a MK to SSR bus at 5 o'clock in the afternoon that was so full I wasn't sure how we were going to get off once we got to the Grandstand. And I was truly concerned for the safety of the small children on that bus.

 

[zumfelde]

Disney could put turnstiles at all bus stops at resorts and DTD. You would have to swipe your hotel key or a theme park ticket that had already been used that day at one of the parks. This way only people that are staying at that hotel could use the bus. People that went from a theme park to DTD or a hotel could also ride, but if someone tried to park at DTD or at a hotel to get to a theme park they would not be able to ride.

 

[TDC Nala]

It's two totally different things to use the bus to get to Pleasure Island from a park or to use the bus to go eat at the Turf Club. One is a legitimate use of the SSR busses and one isn't. (Based on the assumption that only SSR dues pay for SSR busses). Even though you are an SSR owner, by hopping an SSR bus to get to Pleasure Island you could be preventing an SSR family from getting back to their room without waiting for multiple busses. And based on my last experience with the busses, things were getting bad enough to be that picky about it.
That said, all onsite guests should have access to DTD and it should be directly from the parks at Disney's expense.

Well, too bad about having to wait for another bus, but I am afraid I don't see that as a big problem.

If this is a legitimate concern, then all WDW/resort buses should be made for use of the guests of that resort only. Then, one would need a car or a cab to go to a resort other than the resort at which one is staying. Which would certainly cut down on my dining choices. Not to mention time needed to get to PI, because I would have to go from a park to the resort where I am staying to get there.

only looking for offsite guest not onsite.

That is not what DVCSAMNH is saying. They believe that even onsite guests should not be using SSR buses. Not even SSR owners who are staying elsewhere - because they are taking up space that could be used by people actually staying at SSR. Why SSR and not every other resort, then?

In the perfect world for some SSR owners, the bus driver would need to ask each and every person who boarded the bus "Why do you want to go to SSR?" If the answer is "I'm staying there" "I'm pool hopping on a DVC membership" "I want to play golf/go to the spa/eat at the Turf Club" then guests will be permitted to stay on the bus. If my answer is "I need to get to Pleasure Island" I'll be denied access to the bus. Then, I can go take up space on an OKW bus and I am not even an OKW owner. And then what would stop me from saying "I want to eat at the Turf Club," getting off the bus at SSR and then getting on the PI bus?

There are some things that Disney could do to prevent offsite guests trying to beat the parking fee from using the resort buses. But they wouldn't be able to restrict onsite guests trying to travel within WDW property, unless they do the same at all resorts.

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Well, too bad about having to wait for another bus, but I am afraid I don't see that as a big problem.

If this is a legitimate concern, then all WDW/resort buses should be made for use of the guests of that resort only. Then, one would need a car or a cab to go to a resort other than the resort at which one is staying. Which would certainly cut down on my dining choices. Not to mention time needed to get to PI, because I would have to go from a park to the resort where I am staying to get there.



That is not what DVCSAMNH is saying. They believe that even onsite guests should not be using SSR buses. Not even SSR owners who are staying elsewhere - because they are taking up space that could be used by people actually staying at SSR. Why SSR and not every other resort, then?

In the perfect world for some SSR owners, the bus driver would need to ask each and every person who boarded the bus "Why do you want to go to SSR?" If the answer is "I'm staying there" "I'm pool hopping on a DVC membership" "I want to play golf/go to the spa/eat at the Turf Club" then guests will be permitted to stay on the bus. If my answer is "I need to get to Pleasure Island" I'll be denied access to the bus. Then, I can go take up space on an OKW bus and I am not even an OKW owner. And then what would stop me from saying "I want to eat at the Turf Club," getting off the bus at SSR and then getting on the PI bus?

There are some things that Disney could do to prevent offsite guests trying to beat the parking fee from using the resort buses. But they wouldn't be able to restrict onsite guests trying to travel within WDW property, unless they do the same at all resorts.

You're right. That is what I am saying. If PPs on the boards over the years are correct in what they say then SSR and OKW are the only DVCs whose busses are paid for strictly by member dues. The other DVCs are getting some help paying for busses from Disney because they are attached to hotels. If Disney wants to avoid adding busses for DTD and divert all traffic through SSR then they should help with the transportation costs. One of the PPs who owns at other resorts was quick to point out that he didn't want any of his dues to go to pay for gate(s) to keep out onsite guests at SSR, the same can be said for SSR owners having to pay dues to provide transportation for all other resort owners and hotel guests to get to DTD from all the parks.
Now, personally, I do have a problem with offsite guests accessing the parks without paying parking fees and I have no problem with my fellow BWV or BCV owner getting where they need to go. Just pointing out that Disney is getting away with something here and the bus situation IS getting to be a problem at SSR. You might not care about that but those of us affected, do.

 

[TDC Nala]

Yes, but if you want to base it on dues, I am an SSR owner. I am paying the dues too. I stayed at BWV because DVC allows me to book there, but I don't pay dues there. Under even your statement, if I want to use the SSR bus to go to PI, then I should. I'd still be taking up that spot on the bus where someone else who is actually staying at SSR might have gotten to sit down. That, I understand, is why you believe that my use of the SSR bus last month was not "legitimate" and should be prohibited. But if you are going by who pays the dues, that includes me. (And then I guess they could tell me that I can ride the SSR bus but my friend who is staying with me cannot - she was my guest and is not paying SSR any dues)

Should WDW be telling guests to use buses other than SSR to get to DTD? The other close resort is OKW. That's also a DVC resort. Maybe they could use Pop Century. Or cast members could say "you need to switch buses at a resort" without specifying a certain resort. Or do you want to tell onsite guests that the only way to access Downtown Disney from a park is to go to the resort where you are staying and switch buses? If I'm staying at AKL and I am trying to travel to DTD from the Studios I don't know why I should have to do that.

The only way to keep the onsite guests off the bus is to restrict the bus to anyone actually staying at SSR. If that is the case, they can't afford to make exceptions for those who want to use SSR amenities while not staying there because they have no way of knowing whether the prospective passengers are actually going to use the amenities - they might just walk over to DTD.

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Yes, but if you want to base it on dues, I am an SSR owner. I am paying the dues too. I stayed at BWV because DVC allows me to book there, but I don't pay dues there. Under even your statement, if I want to use the SSR bus to go to PI, then I should. I'd still be taking up that spot on the bus where someone else who is actually staying at SSR might have gotten to sit down.

Got me on a technicality! I knew I was missing something. I do see your point and totally agree that the bus drivers cannot police who gets on the busses. That solution was never mine. I have the simplistic idea that Disney needs to reinstate the DTD busses from the parks and put tolls in the DTD parking lots. The onsite guests and AP holders would be waived through the gate the same as they are waived through park entrances. I'm sure Disney could figure out the logistics of this. They funnel tens of thousands of people through 2 foot spaces all day long.

I don't want to stop anyone from riding a bus anywhere. But, when BWV owners (and guests) couldn't park in their parking lot because park goers avoiding lot charges were filling it up they banded together and the problem was somewhat solved. I'm sure some people still go in and say they're having dinner and manage to squeeze some park time in but they're not making a whole day of it anymore. It's seems like something similar can be done for the guests at SSR. With gas prices going into the stratosphere I see the problems getting worse instead of better as more people pass on renting cars at both the offsite and onsite resorts.

 

[TDC Nala]

And one of the best solutions they could come up with is to somehow restrict parking at DTD. I know they don't want to - they want locals and offsite guests to come shop. But validation with a purchase or restaurant receipt could be one way to accomplish that. They'd have to check the time on the receipt to make sure someone probably didn't buy something and then go spend the day in a park.

This solution would cut down on offsite guests using the bus but probably not assist with the onsite guests.

Personally I'd like DTD buses from the parks because I'm always trying to get out to PI from someplace.

 

[crisi]

Do you know for a fact that 100% of the bus expenses used travelling to/from SSR are paid for out of SSR dues? Because I don't think that is how it works. Transportation fees are allocated out to the resorts based on number of rooms at the resort, then all transportation fees collected from DVC dues, plus money from the resorts, plus money from park admission, creates a transportation budget. Or at least that is what I recall from when we had the "why are BWV transportation dues higher than BCV when they share buses and BWV has more rooms" discussion - which did end up with an explaination from member accounting.

In other words, they can run 35 buses a day to SSR or they can run 70 buses a day, but dues are calcuated not based off number of buses, but divvied out based on the proportion of rooms at the resort.

 

[toocherie]

And one of the best solutions they could come up with is to somehow restrict parking at DTD. I know they don't want to - they want locals and offsite guests to come shop. But validation with a purchase or restaurant receipt could be one way to accomplish that. They'd have to check the time on the receipt to make sure someone probably didn't buy something and then go spend the day in a park.

At DTD in California you get three hours free parking--and can get an extra 2 hour validation if you go to a movie or eat at a table-service restaurant. I just don't understand why DTD in Florida can't have a similar policy. It would certainly cut down--if not eliminate--those who are using the DTD parking to go to the parks without paying for parking.

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Do you know for a fact that 100% of the bus expenses used travelling to/from SSR are paid for out of SSR dues? Because I don't think that is how it works. Transportation fees are allocated out to the resorts based on number of rooms at the resort, then all transportation fees collected from DVC dues, plus money from the resorts, plus money from park admission, creates a transportation budget. Or at least that is what I recall from when we had the "why are BWV transportation dues higher than BCV when they share buses and BWV has more rooms" discussion - which did end up with an explaination from member accounting.

I think you were addressing me in this post. If not, my apologies.

I don't know for a fact if SSR members are paying 100% of the bus transportation through dues. That is why I put disclaimers to that fact in a couple of my posts and I was basing my arguments on members paying 100%. I knew that BWV and the other resort based DVCs shared expenses. I am surprised to learn that the S&D doesn't substantially or at least somewhat lower the BWV below BCV(YC/BC).


That said, the estimated transportation expense in the SSR operating budget for 2008 is over $4.5 million. Even if that number miraculously holds it's an increase of a half a million.I would guess that we're going to blow that figure out of the water. Seems like that is a large enough amount to start a discussion of some kind for a DTD alternative with DVC.

 

[thelobstershanty]

This topic comes up on a fairly regular basis, with just different DVC resorts in question. A couple years ago there was a huge thread regarding BWV/BCV transportation costs. One poster even had extensive correspondence with DVC in regards to the breakdown of transportation costs, who pays what 100%, etc. The end result was that nothing changed. The bus routes stayed the same, the division of costs remained the same, the people allowed on the buses remained the same. Bottom line--they are Disney properties and Disney will do what they want to do with them. The head honcho CMs running the show would never come out and say that, they will tell you they want your opinions, but at the end of the day--Disney does what is good for Disney, especially if it is tied into their bottom line in regards to $$$$.
Just my $0.02, based on past history.
Continue on, this is one of the longest threads I have seen in a long time.

 

[tchrrx]

We stayed at Congress Park a couple of days ago. Service to and from SSR was horrible. I'm not sure how much of this related to DTD people, but it sure made our trip much less magical than usual.