GM to lay off 30,000 people

[chrissyk]

I may be wrong on this but I think I read that the major sticking point was health care issues. The GM employees wouldn't budge so now they lose their jobs. My health care cost have gone up over 300% in the last 5 years (and I work for a MAJOR US corporation). Our school districts budget increase for the last 5 years have been soley for teacher's benefits (they still pay nothing). I think Americans need to wake to the fact that free (company paid) health care is a thing of the past.

YEP It will take a few more GM's before people will open their eyes to this IMHO, though.

 

[TDC Nala]

BUY AMERICAN.

How do you do that? I have a Chrysler. The company is owned by Germans and the car was assembled in Mexico.

 

[chrissyk]

the main problem is Health Care costs in General. if they weren't so outrageous companies could afford to pay the insurance for their employees..

Or conversely, if employees were willing to accept high-deductable portable insurance policies and HSAs instead of insisting on "free" employer-sponsored defined-benefit plans, insurance would only cost companies a fraction of what it does now. This isn't about insurance costs overall. It's about employees (and unions) being unwilling to budge on the TYPE of health insurance that the employees receive (again, IMHO).

 

[rockin_rep]

both of my AMERICAN cars (Fords) are made in Canada. We can not buy AMERICAN (cars or otherwise) as we do not make a whole lot of goods in the US anymore.

EXACTLY. We do NOT make a whole lot of goods in the US anymore!!!

And as Americans, if we don't start buying American as much as possible, before long there won't be ANYTHING American made to purchase!

And then what? Can we as a nation survive on the service and / or tourism industries? Maybe in our lifetime but what about our children and future grandchildren? Rhetorical question i'm sure, but don't we need industry to survive?

 

[ducklite]

You're so right mickeysgal, it will indeed affect EVERYONE, regardless if you have a plant in town or not.

What has to change? More people need to BUY AMERICAN. Too many are buying foreign cars. Back in the day american cars were not as good. But for quite awhile now they have been rated as good, if not better.

But even if they were NOT better, think of the big picture ~we live in America. These buying trends are happening across the board in all kinds of consumer goods; whatever seems cheaper is what people buy, without thinking of the big picture, the long term consequences. There are cut-backs being made in every industry. Makes one wonder where it will all end.....

I needed to buy a timer for a lamp yesterday. I couldn't find one made in the US. It's getting harder and harder to support US Made products, because other than the obvious--Burt's Bee's, Ben & Jerry's, Newman's Own, etc, there is nothing made here anymore!

We own two Saturns and a Prius. There were no US made hybrids that weren't SUV's, which is why we bought the Prius. We do try to buy US made products as often as possible.

Anne

 

[Puffy2]

I may be wrong on this but I think I read that the major sticking point was health care issues. The GM employees wouldn't budge so now they lose their jobs. My health care cost have gone up over 300% in the last 5 years (and I work for a MAJOR US corporation). Our school districts budget increase for the last 5 years have been soley for teacher's benefits (they still pay nothing). I think Americans need to wake to the fact that free (company paid) health care is a thing of the past.

Yes, it's those pesky employees who are to fault. Not.

The people need health care. They need housing. They need access to education. They need to be able to feed and clothe their families. Is it too much to ask that a person working 40 - 60 hour work weeks be able to afford these things?

If healthcare cost so freaking much, then there is a problem with our Health Care System. It's a shame that far too many people have chosen to ignor the health care crisis in our country - both the impotent politicans and the voters who put them all in office.

I can understand the politicans ignoring the issue (they have OUTSTANDING health care benefits paid for by the American tax payers). But what is wrong with the voters? Are they that easlily manipulated???

 

[MICKEY88]

Or conversely, if employees were willing to accept high-deductable portable insurance policies and HSAs instead of insisting on "free" employer-sponsored defined-benefit plans, insurance would only cost companies a fraction of what it does now. This isn't about insurance costs overall. It's about employees (and unions) being unwilling to budge on the TYPE of health insurance that the employees receive (again, IMHO).

I respectfully disagree,,companies had no problem funding health insurance until medical expenses went sky high, which in turn increased the cost of health insurance,

for years companies lured employees in with health benefits rather than high pay....


the problem is the FACT that Dr.s and hospitals will charge a patient one fee for a procedure if they must pay out of pocket, yet they will bill an insurance company, a much higher fee,

I've seen it done... what a patient would pay 30 dollars for an insurance company pays over 100 dollars for, hence the high cost of insurance...

another part of the equation is litigation happpy americans, the more drs and hospital get sued, the higher their malpractice insurance goes, the higher the fees they charge patients and insurance companies to recoup their money


in reality, lawsuit reform should come first, then insurance reform, then companies could continue this perk or form of extra pay to employees....


if lawsuits and insurance rates go unchecked, and employees are forced to pick up their insurance, we will have more and more people struggling financially as insurance and health care take over a large portion of employee wages...

 

[Bob Slydell]

Yes, it's those pesky employees who are to fault. Not.

The people need health care. They need housing. They need access to education. They need to be able to feed and clothe their families. Is it too much to ask that a person working 40 - 60 hour work weeks be able to afford these things?

The "people" (and more to the point, these people's union reps) need to realize that they need to give a little to keep jobs. Any time a union-run company even suggests trimming some benefits, they immediately threaten strikes. The result? Close the plants and move the production to another country.

Buying American is a thing of the past. You can buy from American companies, but understand that these days most American companies have to be global in order to survive.

 

[Galahad]

I respectfully disagree,,companies had no problem funding health insurance until medical expenses went sky high, which in turn increased the cost of health insurance,

for years companies lured employees in with health benefits rather than high pay....


the problem is the FACT that Dr.s and hospitals will charge a patient one fee for a procedure if they must pay out of pocket, yet they will bill an insurance company, a much higher fee,

I've seen it done... what a patient would pay 30 dollars for an insurance company pays over 100 dollars for, hence the high cost of insurance...

another part of the equation is litigation happpy americans, the more drs and hospital get sued, the higher their malpractice insurance goes, the higher the fees they charge patients and insurance companies to recoup their money


in reality, lawsuit reform should come first, then insurance reform, then companies could continue this perk or form of extra pay to employees....


if lawsuits and insurance rates go unchecked, and employees are forced to pick up their insurance, we will have more and more people struggling financially as insurance and health care take over a large portion of employee wages...

Employers providing health coverage is what began the rise in healthcare costs.

Providers don't have "two different prices". They can't. What they have are mandated discounts - mandated by the payor as part of the contract for accepting their coverage.

Our Japanese car were made in Ohio and Tennessee by American workers. I'd call that "buying American".

 

[chrissyk]

Employers providing health coverage is what began the rise in healthcare costs.

Providers don't have "two different prices". They can't. What they have are mandated discounts - mandated by the payor as part of the contract for accepting their coverage.

Agreed. People need to educate themselves about the true state of the healthcare system in this country asap, because I can see a LOT of people being very ticked when we all go to to HSAs in a few years otherwise. Heathcare costs are out-of-control because employers have been expected to subsidize them to the hilt for their employees. This, in turn, has choked a lot of businesses right out of existance.

For years, people didn't have reasonably good alternatives to buying their own health insurance. With the advent of some new laws (HSAs for one), that is changing rapidly. I believe that MORE people will have good health insurance coverage because of this climate change. Employer-sponsored health insurance will be a thing of the past in the not-too-distant future IMHO. The alternative is what is happening at GM (again, IMHO).

 

[CarolA]

But even if they were NOT better, think of the big picture ~we live in America. These buying trends are happening across the board in all kinds of consumer goods; whatever seems cheaper is what people buy, without thinking of the big picture, the long term consequences. There are cut-backs being made in every industry. Makes one wonder where it will all end.....

You have got to be kidding... EVEN IF THEY WERE NOT BETTER, I should buy And then what incentive would they ever have to get better?

Let's see I can put out a shoddy product and folks will still buy so why should I fix my product......

 

[CarolA]

Agreed. People need to educate themselves about the true state of the healthcare system in this country asap, because I can see a LOT of people being very ticked when we all go to to HSAs in a few years otherwise. Heathcare costs are out-of-control because employers have been expected to subsidize them to the hilt for their employees. This, in turn, has choked a lot of businesses right out of existance.

For years, people didn't have reasonably good alternatives to buying their own health insurance. With the advent of some new laws (HSAs for one), that is changing rapidly. I believe that MORE people will have good health insurance coverage because of this climate change. Employer-sponsored health insurance will be a thing of the past in the not-too-distant future IMHO. The alternative is what is happening at GM (again, IMHO).

You left out one IMPORTANT subsidy. What the goverments pay for both Medicaid and Medicare is woefully inadequte. So what we are asking insurance companies and employers to do is make up the difference. Medicare barely pays for basic hospital coverage. If a hospital is solely dependent on Medicare and Medicaid there is very little money left over for new capital improvements. That means when you get admitted, there is no new state of the art MRI, Litho, OR equipment etc....

 

[Christine]

Providers don't have "two different prices". They can't. What they have are mandated discounts - mandated by the payor as part of the contract for accepting their coverage.

Exactly. I used to believe, too, that doctors "inflated" their costs because they know you have insurance. But I found out that it was illegal for them to charge different prices. I know that my doctors have one set price for a visit. For instance, my endocrinologist charges me $95 whether I have insurance or not (there are times when I have had none and times I've had some). Certainly, I believe that doctors "inflate" their charges to EVERYONE because of some of the insurance contracts they carry (where they have to take a loss). One of my doctors ended up dropping all his insurance contracts. I must pay him up front when I visit and file myself. He said that when he had several insurance contracts, he was working his butt off and making no money. He had to write off so much and got very little in return. So he dropped them all. Inconvenient for me, but I understand it.

 

[MICKEY88]

Providers don't have "two different prices". They can't. What they have are mandated discounts - mandated by the payor as part of the contract for accepting their coverage.

".

why would they have mandated discounts for people without insurance, where would that benefit the payor....


again the bottom line is lawsuits, causing malpractice insurance to go up, which in turn causes higher medical fees,

I agree people do need to educate themselves,

I see the fight on a daily basis,
drs and insurance companies both agree that malpractice lawsuits, and the exhorbitant payouts, are the root of high insurance costs..

 

[momof2inPA]

What has to change (again, IMHO) are company-sponsored healthcare plans and the entitlement mentality that some employees and retirees have regarding this "benefit". Not much can be done about the retirees I guess, but present employees have to start being responsible for a large portion of their own benefit costs. Otherwise, businesses will get choked out of existance by their own benefit costs. I think that the HSA plan that the govt. has come up with might end up being an excellent solution. In 10 years, I think that everyone will have this rather that then traditional defined-benefit type plan that is sinking GM and other companies.

Right. Someone making 25K a year can afford to fund a Health Savings Account? Get a clue. The only result from Republicans pushing Health Savings Accounts will be that more poor people will be without Health Care. And don't think that the Republicans are targeting only blue collar folks for Health Savings Accounts, they want no companies to fund health insurance, not even for white collar workers. So, while we all sit here, not getting raises, not receiving cost of living increases, we will have to absorb thousands of dollars in Health Savings Account costs. This is your future as an American when you vote Republican.

The management of the auto industry and remaining U.S. manufacturing facilities, plus the unions have been begging for a solution to the health care crisis, especially prior to the past presidential elections, but Bush didn't have health care on his agenda and KERRY DID. So, all of you who voted Bush and are blaming health care expenses, pat yourselves on the back for these layoff. You're just as much to blame as anyone.

It's time to address health care on a national level and to address the problems of free trade vs. fair trade. Ross Perot was right about that giant sucking sound that would be all the jobs leaving the U.S., only it's not only to Mexico, it's to all third world countries.

 

[MICKEY88]

Exactly. I used to believe, too, that doctors "inflated" their costs because they know you have insurance. But I found out that it was illegal for them to charge different prices. I know that my doctors have one set price for a visit. For instance, my endocrinologist charges me $95 whether I have insurance or not (there are times when I have had none and times I've had some). Certainly, I believe that doctors "inflate" their charges to EVERYONE because of some of the insurance contracts they carry (where they have to take a loss). One of my doctors ended up dropping all his insurance contracts. I must pay him up front when I visit and file myself. He said that when he had several insurance contracts, he was working his butt off and making no money. He had to write off so much and got very little in return. So he dropped them all. Inconvenient for me, but I understand it.

yes it's illegal, but there is a very legal way around it,

go to the dr to have a splinter removed, it'll cost 20-30 dollars if you don't have insurance,,if you do it's now billed as outpatient surgery...a bit more expensive and the insurance pays it....

 

[Donny Baker]

Hey Donny - If it's made in America I'll buy your boat, man. I swear to God I will!

you swear to god you will, man? yeah, it's made in america and I had it airbrushed red, white, and blue, and a bald eagle on the front to prove it, huh!

(FINALLY! someone gets gets my screen name!)

 

[mickeysgal]

Right. Someone making 25K a year can afford to fund a Health Savings Account? Get a clue. The only result from Republicans pushing Health Savings Accounts will be that more poor people will be without Health Care. And don't think that the Republicans are targeting only blue collar folks for Health Savings Accounts, they want no companies to fund health insurance, not even for white collar workers. So, while we all sit here, not getting raises, not receiving cost of living increases, we will have to absorb thousands of dollars in Health Savings Account costs. This is your future as an American when you vote Republican.

It's time to address health care on a national level and to address the problems of free trade vs. fair trade. Ross Perot was right about that giant sucking sound that would be all the jobs leaving the U.S., only it's not only to Mexico, it's to all third world countries.

I guess I don't understand HSA's enough. From what I understand I can establish one of these accounts and fund it tax free to be used for medical expenses. I can only have a HSA if the insurance plan I have has a certain level of deductible, correct? Its not clear to me how this will be better for a family in the long run. And that assumes that I am covered under some insurance plan. What about those companies that may be dropping group coverage altogether for their employees due to cost? So many people have "something" wrong with them , that it will be impossible to qualify for an individual policy. Insurance companies want policyholders that are a picture of perfect health. I just don't believe that many of these people exist. What are the rest going to do? Good grief...years ago when my husband was laid off, we looked into an individual family policy. The health history that they wanted was incredible! Even down to the last sinus infections that you had over the past 5 years. Any type of illness was a no-no.

 

[ducklite]

Unions have taken concessions, nationwide. What do you want them to make, $7 an hour with no benefits? You try to support a family on that wage.

I guess it's better than supporting them on unemplyment when the plant closes down...

Anne

 

[lyeag]

It is sad to see this happening again. I grew up near John Deere's headquarters in Moline, IL. My father worked there. International Harvester and a few others were huge employers in our area for farming equipment. In the late 70's and early 80's I watched the unions push for more than the companies could pay out at the time. Strikes caused even more problems. Next thing you know, huge manufacturing plants were being closed, layoffs were everywhere, and many of my friend's parents lost their jobs and moved. To this day, the area is still trying to come back after such a huge hit. Most of those foundries and manufactuing plants are still idle or have been bulldozed.


Luckily, my father didn't lose his job, but he did get moved to another dept. and took a big pay loss to keep his job.


I wish people would really think long and hard before they claim a company can/should pay X amount for certain benefits and pay increases.