Glad we passed on the Gardasil vaccine

What motive would most people have in saying Gardasil is unsafe?

How does Merck benefit from convincing everyone it is safe, and selling it----mind you, at several hundred dollars a pop? I'm sure you'll say it has nothing to do with money, and they just really care about our health and nothing else.

"FACTS about HPV:

There are more than 100 different types of HPV and at least 15 of them are oncogenic (potentially cancerous).
The current vaccines target only 2 oncogenic strains: HPV-16 and HPV-18.
The relationship between infection at a young age and development of cancer 20 to 40 years later is not known.
HPV is the most prevalent sexually transmitted infection, with an estimated 79% infection rate over a lifetime.
The virus does not appear to be very harmful because almost all HPV infections are cleared by the immune system.In a few women, infection persists and some women may develop precancerous cervical lesions and eventually cervical cancer.
It is currently impossible to predict in which women this will occur and why.
Likewise, it is impossible to predict exactly what effect vaccination of young girls and women will have on the incidence of cervical cancer 20 to 40 years from now.
The vaccine's effectiveness is confirmed for only five years.The true risk /benefit of the vaccine can be determined only through clinical trials and long-term follow-up."


http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/631/9/

There are a lot of names and links if you would like to dig deep and discredit every bit of information you can-- have fun.

Merck's HPV Gardasil Vaccine: Risks, Benefits, Marketing_JAMA
Saturday, 22 August 2009
What possible risk/ benefit standard can justify giving an inadequately studied vaccine whose risks include serious, permanent adverse effects--including death-- to millions of girls and women--who will likely never get cervical cancer? Two reports in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) [1][2] and an editorial written by Dr. Charlotte Haug, the editor-in-chief of the Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association, have re-ignited a debate about the rationale of encouraging--in some instances mandating--mass inoculation of women and girls (as young as 11) with the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine.

Below, Dr. Haug raises fundamental medical questions that need to be considered before adopting an invasive medical treatment whose documented risks--including 32 post-vaccination deaths--outweigh the evidence of potential benefits for the populations being targeted for "preventive treatment."

"Whether a risk is worth taking depends not only on the absolute risk, but on the relationship between the potential risk and the potential benefit. If the potential benefits are substantial, most individuals would be willing to accept the risks. But the net benefit of the HPV vaccine to a woman is uncertain. Even if persistently infected with HPV, a woman most likely will not develop cancer if she is regularly screened. So rationally she should be willing to accept only a small risk of harmful effects from the vaccine."Why then is the target population for Merck's Gardasil HPV vaccine, girls and young women in the US and other industrialized countries who are LEAST at risk of dying from cervical cancer? They are least at risk because they are protected by regular PAP screens that identify early signs which are effectively treatable.

Below, CBS reporter, Sharyl Attkisson, interviewed Dr. Diane Harper, the principle investigator who helped design and carry out the Phase II and Phase III safety and effectiveness studies to get Gardasil approved, and authored many of the published, scholarly papers about it. She has been a paid speaker and consultant to Merck.
However, Merck's aggressive marketing of the vaccine for populations least at risk, and its dissemination of disinformation about the vaccine’s benefits, have led Dr. Harper to publicly criticize the vaccine that she helped get approved. Indeed, Dr. Harper joins a number of consumer watchdogs, vaccine safety advocates, and parents who question the vaccine’s risk-versus-benefit profile. She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; THERE IS NO DATA SHOWING THAT THE GARDASIL VACCINE REMAINS EFFECTIVE BEYOND FIVE YEARS.

She also questions the wisdom of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommendation encouraging girls as young as 11-years old to be given a series of shots:

“If we vaccinate 11 year olds and the protection doesn’t last... we’ve put them at harm from side effects, small but real, for no benefit. The benefit to public health is nothing, there is no reduction in cervical cancers, they are just postponed, unless the protection lasts for at least 15 years, and over 70% of all sexually active females of all ages are vaccinated.”
Dr. Harper also says that enough serious side effects have been reported after Gardasil use that the vaccine could prove riskier than the cervical cancer it purports to prevent. Cervical cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early through normal Pap screenings.
FACTS about HPV:

There are more than 100 different types of HPV and at least 15 of them are oncogenic (potentially cancerous).
The current vaccines target only 2 oncogenic strains: HPV-16 and HPV-18.
The relationship between infection at a young age and development of cancer 20 to 40 years later is not known.
HPV is the most prevalent sexually transmitted infection, with an estimated 79% infection rate over a lifetime.
The virus does not appear to be very harmful because almost all HPV infections are cleared by the immune system.In a few women, infection persists and some women may develop precancerous cervical lesions and eventually cervical cancer.
It is currently impossible to predict in which women this will occur and why.
Likewise, it is impossible to predict exactly what effect vaccination of young girls and women will have on the incidence of cervical cancer 20 to 40 years from now.
The vaccine's effectiveness is confirmed for only five years.The true risk /benefit of the vaccine can be determined only through clinical trials and long-term follow-up.
In other words, every girl being vaccinated with the HPV vaccine is a human guinea pig in an uncontrolled medical experiment.
The JAMA editorial notes: "When weighing evidence about risks and benefits, it is also appropriate to ask who takes the risk, and who gets the benefit." Gardasil’s risks are borne by the girls and women vaccinated: its benefit clearly goes to Merck.
A report by Drs. Sheila Rothman and David Rothman in the same issue of JAMA, documents how Merck resorted to corrupt practices in the promotion of Gardasil, much as it had done in the marketing of Vioxx. [1]
The authors expose Merck's covert payments to professional medical associations who sponsored marketing events at which commercial propaganda masqueraded as "educational" material. Merck not only bankrolled professional medical associations, the company provided ready-made presentations, slide sets, e-mails, and letters endorsing the vaccine--which were disseminated under the auspices of influential medical associations.

Among the influential professional medical associations who helped Merck promote Gardasil--having essentially sold their integrity for cash:


The Society of Gynecologic Oncology, the American Society for Colposcopy and Cervical Pathology, and American College Health Association.

All of these organizations helped Merck sell the vaccine with unsubstantiated claims, and helped Merck influence decisions about vaccine policy. None mentioned Merck funding.

As Rothman and Rothman point out:

"Marketing this HPV vaccine as an anticancer vaccine appears to have enabled its manufacturer to circumvent possible parental and public unease with an antidote to sexually transmitted diseases. But in doing so, the company bypassed public health officials who would have spearheaded a risk-sensitive vaccination campaign.... So too, this manufacturer understandably wanted as many adolescents as possible to be vaccinated. But the pursuit of this goal was neither cost-effective nor equitable."

"It meant rather than concentrating on populations in geographic areas with excess cervical cancer mortality, including African Americans in the South, Latinos along the Texas-Mexico border, and whites in Appalachia--i.e., populations that cannot afford the $300 price tag of the vaccine--Merck's marketing campaign targeted those least likely to die from cervical cancer, thanks to regular PAP tests. Merck's aggressive propaganda FALSELY claimed that every girl was at equal risk:
“Your daughter could become 1 less life affected by cervical cancer.”

"By making this vaccine’s target disease cervical cancer, the sexual transmission of HPV was minimized, the threat of cervical cancer to all adolescents maximized, and the subpopulations most at risk practically ignored."
That is a consequential disservice to girls and young women.

The fact that professional medical associations participated in this charade validates critics who charge that professional American medical associations are not to be trusted--they have betrayed the public trust by selling their integrity to industry.

The second report in the same issue of JAMA, by Barbara Slade and colleagues from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, addresses Gardasil-linked adverse events reported to the US national database, AERS, which comprise only an estimated 1% to 10% of actual adverse events. [2]
Between June 1, 2006, through December 31, 2008 VAERS received 12 424 reports of AEFIs following qHPV distribution, a rate of 53.9 reports per 100 000 doses distributed.
772 reports (6.2% of all reports) described serious AE following inocularion, including 32 reports of death.
The reporting rates per 100 000 qHPV doses distributed were 8.2 for syncope; 7.5 for local site reactions; 6.8 for dizziness; 5.0 for nausea; 4.1 for headache;
3.1 for hypersensitivity reactions; 2.6 for urticaria; 0.2 for venous thromboembolic events, autoimmune disorders, and Guillain-Barré syndrome; 0.1 for anaphylaxis and death; 0.04 for transverse myelitis and pancreatitis; and 0.009 for motor neuron disease.
Disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events was noted with data mining methods.
The authors acknowledge: "there was disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events," but they soft-peddle the significance of these (admittedly) underreported findings:
"the significance of these findings must be tempered with the limitations (possible underreporting) of a passive reporting system."

What possible risk/benefit standard can justify giving an inadequately studied vaccine whose risks include serious, permanent adverse effects--including death-- to millions of girls and women--who will likely never get cervical cancer?

References:
1. Marketing HPV Vaccine: Implications for Adolescent Health and Medical Professionalism. Sheila M. Rothman, PhD; David J. Rothman, PhD
JAMA. 2009;302(7):781-786.

2. Postlicensure Safety Surveillance for Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus Recombinant Vaccine. Barbara A. Slade, Laura Leidel, Claudia Vellozzi, Emily Jane Woo, Wei Hua, Andrea Sutherland, Hector S. Izurieta, Robert Ball, Nancy Miller, M. Miles Braun, Lauri E. Markowitz, and John Iskander
JAMA. 2009;302(7):750-757.


Posted by Vera Hassner Sharav


The Risks and Benefits of HPV Vaccination
Charlotte Haug, MD, PhD, MSc
JAMA. 2009;302(7):795-796.

When do physicians know enough about the beneficial effects of a new medical intervention to start recommending or using it? When is the available information about harmful adverse effects sufficient to conclude that the risks outweigh the potential benefits? If in doubt, should physicians err on the side of caution or on the side of hope? These questions are at the core of all medical decision making. It is a complicated process because medical knowledge is typically incomplete and ambiguous. It is especially complex to make decisions about whether to use drugs that may prevent disease in the future, particularly when these drugs are given to otherwise healthy individuals. Vaccines are examples of such drugs, and the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine is a case in point.

zur Hausen, winner of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 2008, discovered that oncogenic HPV causes cervical cancer.1-4 His discovery led to characterization of the natural history of HPV infection, an understanding of mechanisms of HPV-induced carcinogenesis, and eventually to the development of prophylactic vaccines against HPV infection.

The theory behind the vaccine is sound: If HPV infection can be prevented, cancer will not occur. But in practice the issue is more complex. First, there are more than 100 different types of HPV and at least 15 of them are oncogenic. The current vaccines target only 2 oncogenic strains: HPV-16 and HPV-18. Second, the relationship between infection at a young age and development of cancer 20 to 40 years later is not known. HPV is the most prevalent sexually transmitted infection, with an estimated 79% infection rate over a lifetime5-6 The virus does not appear to be very harmful because almost all HPV infections are cleared by the immune system.7-8 In a few women, infection persists and some women may develop precancerous cervical lesions and eventually cervical cancer. It is currently impossible to predict in which women this will occur and why. Likewise, it is impossible to predict exactly what effect vaccination of young girls and women will have on the incidence of cervical cancer 20 to 40 years from now. The true effect of the vaccine can be determined only through clinical trials and long-term follow-up.
The first HPV vaccine was licensed for use in the United States in June 2006,9 and the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommended routine vaccination of girls aged 11 to 12 years later that same month.10 However, the first phase 3 trials of the HPV vaccine with clinically relevant end points—cervical intraepithelial neoplasias grades 2 and 3 (CIN 2/3)—were not reported until May 2007.11 Previously only reduction in the prevalence of persistent infection and CIN from the 2 virus strains included in the vaccine had been reported. The results were promising, but serious questions regarding the overall effectiveness of the vaccine for protection against cervical cancer remained to be answered, and more long-term studies were called for.12 However, no longer-term results from such studies have been published since then.
So how should a parent, physician, politician, or anyone else decide whether it is a good thing to give young girls a vaccine that partly prevents infection caused by a sexually transmitted disease (HPV infection), an infection that in a few cases will cause cancer 20 to 40 years from now? Two articles in this issue of JAMA13-14 present important data that may influence, and probably already have influenced, such decisions about HPV vaccination.

The report by Rothman and Rothman13 demonstrates how the vaccine manufacturer funded educational programs sponsored by professional medical associations in the United States. The article illustrates how the Society of Gynecologic Oncology, the American Society for Colposcopy and Cervical Pathology, and American College Health Association helped market the vaccine and influenced decisions about vaccine policy with the help of ready-made presentations, slide sets, e-mails, and letters. It is of course reasonable for professional medical associations to promote medical interventions they believe in. But did these associations provide members with unbiased educational material and balanced recommendations? Did they ensure that marketing strategies did not compromise clinical recommendations? These educational programs strongly promoting HPV vaccination began in 2006, more than a year before the trials with clinically important end points were published. How could anyone be so certain about the effect of the vaccine? This matters because the voices of experts such as the professional medical associations are especially important with a complex issue such as this.
In another article, Slade and colleagues14 from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the US Food and Drug Administration describe the adverse events that occurred 2.5 years following the receipt of quadrivalent HPV vaccine that were reported through the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS). Even though most of the reported adverse events were not serious, there were some reports of hypersensitivity reactions including anaphylaxis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, transverse myelitis, pancreatitis, and venous thromboembolic events. VAERS is a passive, voluntary reporting system, and the authors call attention to its limitations. They point out that only systematic, prospective, controlled studies will be able to distinguish the true harmful effects of the HPV vaccine. These limitations work both ways: it is also difficult to conclude that a serious event is not caused by the vaccine.

Whether a risk is worth taking depends not only on the absolute risk, but on the relationship between the potential risk and the potential benefit. If the potential benefits are substantial, most individuals would be willing to accept the risks. But the net benefit of the HPV vaccine to a woman is uncertain. Even if persistently infected with HPV, a woman most likely will not develop cancer if she is regularly screened.15 So rationally she should be willing to accept only a small risk of harmful effects from the vaccine.
When weighing evidence about risks and benefits, it is also appropriate to ask who takes the risk, and who gets the benefit. Patients and the public logically expect that only medical and scientific evidence is put on the balance. If other matters weigh in, such as profit for a company or financial or professional gains for physicians or groups of physicians, the balance is easily skewed. The balance will also tilt if the adverse events are not calculated correctly.
AUTHOR INFORMATION
Corresponding Author: Charlotte Haug, MD, PhD, MSc, The Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association, Akersgata 2, Oslo 0107, Norway ( charlotte.haug@legeforeningen.noThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it ).

Financial Disclosures: None reported.
Editorials represent the opinions of the authors and JAMA and not those of the American Medical Association.
Author Affiliation: The Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association, Oslo, Norway.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


WASHINGTON, August 19, 2009
Gardasil Researcher Speaks Out
"Public Should Receive More Complete Warnings"
By Sharyl Attkisson

(CBS) Amid questions about the safety of the HPV vaccine Gardasil one of the lead researchers for the Merck drug is speaking out about its risks, benefits and aggressive marketing.

Dr. Diane Harper says young girls and their parents should receive more complete warnings before receiving the vaccine to prevent cervical cancer. Dr. Harper helped design and carry out the Phase II and Phase III safety and effectiveness studies to get Gardasil approved, and authored many of the published, scholarly papers about it. She has been a paid speaker and consultant to Merck. It’s highly unusual for a researcher to publicly criticize a medicine or vaccine she helped get approved.

Dr. Harper joins a number of consumer watchdogs, vaccine safety advocates, and parents who question the vaccine’s risk-versus-benefit profile. She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; there is no data showing that it remains effective beyond five years.

Read also:
Judicial Watch reports on Gardasil http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil
Dr. LaPook’s Story on HPV http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/18/eveningnews/main5250640.shtml
Attkisson's Exclusive Report on Gardasil http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/06/eveningnews/main4781658.shtml

This raises questions about the CDC’s recommendation that the series of shots be given to girls as young as 11-years old. “If we vaccinate 11 year olds and the protection doesn’t last... we’ve put them at harm from side effects, small but real, for no benefit,” says Dr. Harper. “The benefit to public health is nothing, there is no reduction in cervical cancers, they are just postponed, unless the protection lasts for at least 15 years, and over 70% of all sexually active females of all ages are vaccinated.” She also says that enough serious side effects have been reported after Gardasil use that the vaccine could prove riskier than the cervical cancer it purports to prevent. Cervical cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early through normal Pap screenings.

Dr. Scott Ratner and his wife, who’s also a physician, expressed similar concerns as Dr. Harper in an interview with CBS News last year. One of their teenage daughters became severely ill after her first dose of Gardasil. Dr. Ratner says she’d have been better off getting cervical cancer than the vaccination. “My daughter went from a varsity lacrosse player at Choate to a chronically ill, steroid-dependent patient with autoimmune myofasciitis. I’ve had to ask myself why I let my eldest of three daughters get an unproven vaccine against a few strains of a nonlethal virus that can be dealt with in more effective ways.”Merck and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention maintain Gardasil is safe and effective, and that adequate warnings are provided, cautioning about soreness at the injection site and risk of fainting after vaccination. A new study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found while the overall risk of side effects appears to be comparable to other vaccines, Gardasil has a higher incidence of blood clots reported. Merck says it continues to have confidence in Gardasil’s safety profile. Merck also says it’s looking into cases of ALS, commonly known as Lou Gehrig’s Disease, reported after vaccination. ALS is a progressive neurodegenerative disease that attacks motor neurons in the brain and spinal cord. Merck and the CDC say there is currently no evidence that Gardasil caused ALS in the cases reported. Merck is also monitoring the number of deaths reported after Gardasil: at least 32. Merck and CDC says it’s unclear whether the deaths were related to the vaccine, and that just because patients died after the shots doesn’t mean the shots were necessarily to blame.

According to Dr. Harper, assessing the true adverse event risk of Gardasil, and comparing it to the risk of cervical cancer can be tricky and complex. "The number of women who die from cervical cancer in the US every year is small but real. It is small because of the success of the Pap screening program."
"The risks of serious adverse events including death reported after Gardasil use in (the JAMA article by CDC’s Dr. Barbara Slade) were 3.4/100,000 doses distributed. The rate of serious adverse events on par with the death rate of cervical cancer. Gardasil has been associated with at least as many serious adverse events as there are deaths from cervical cancer developing each year. Indeed, the risks of vaccination are underreported in Slade's article, as they are based on a denominator of doses distributed from Merck's warehouse. Up to a third of those doses may be in refrigerators waiting to be dispensed as the autumn onslaught of vaccine messages is sent home to parents the first day of school. Should the denominator in Dr. Slade's work be adjusted to account for this, and then divided by three for the number of women who would receive all three doses, the incidence rate of serious adverse events increases up to five fold. How does a parent value that information," said Harper.

Dr. Harper agrees with Merck and the CDC that Gardasil is safe for most girls and women. But she says the side effects reported so far call for more complete disclosure to patients. She says they should be told that protection from the vaccination might not last long enough to provide a cancer protection benefit, and that its risks - “small but real” - could occur more often than the cervical cancer itself would.

"Parents and women must know that deaths occurred. Not all deaths that have been reported were represented in Dr. Slade's work, one-third of the death reports were unavailable to the CDC, leaving the parents of the deceased teenagers in despair that the CDC is ignoring the very rare but real occurrences that need not have happened if parents were given information stating that there are real, but small risks of death surrounding the administration of Gardasil."

She also worries that Merck’s aggressive marketing of the vaccine may have given women a false sense of security. "The future expectations women hold because they have received free doses of Gardasil purchased by philanthropic foundations, by public health agencies or covered by insurance is the true threat to cervical cancer in the future. Should women stop Pap screening after vaccination, the cervical cancer rate will actually increase per year. Should women believe this is preventive for all cancers - something never stated, but often inferred by many in the population-- a reduction in all health care will compound our current health crisis. Should Gardasil not be effective for more than 15 years, the most costly public health experiment in cancer control will have failed miserably."
CDC continues to recommend Gardasil for girls and young women. The agency says the vaccine’s benefits outweigh its risks and that it is an important tool in fighting a serious cancer.

Dr. Harper says the risk-benefit analysis for Gardasil in other countries may shape up differently than what she believes is true in the US. “Of course, in developing countries where there is no safety Pap screening for women repeatedly over their lifetimes, the risks of serious adverse events may be acceptable as the incidence rate of cervical cancer is five to 12 times higher than in the US, dwarfing the risk of death reported after Gardasil.”
©MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc.. All Rights Reserved.
 
That site is truly beautiful! It surly helps point to the notion that "fear of outcome" isn't driving the concern.

It has some interesting comments worth thinking about as well:

From hm:

The American Cancer Society estimates that in 2006, about 9,710 cases of invasive cervical cancer will be diagnosed in the United States and about 3,700 women will die from the disease.

More than twice as many African-American women die from cervical cancer as Caucasian women. Hispanic and Native-American women have higher rates of the disease than Caucasian women. Cervical cancer rates also are rising among Vietnamese women. The highest rate of cervical cancer is in underdeveloped countries.

Both incidence and deaths from cervical cancer have declined markedly over the last several decades, due to more frequent detection of pre-invasive and cancerous lesions of the cervix from increased Pap screening.

The five-year survival rate for early invasive cancer of the cervix is 92 percent. The overall five-year survival rate (for all stages combined) is about 73 percent. For pre-invasive cervical cancer, the five-year survival rate is nearly 100 percent.

The majority of cervical cancers develop through a series of gradual, well-defined precancerous lesions. During this usually lengthy process, the abnormal tissue can often be detected by the Pap test and treated.

Pap tests, like other early detection tests, are not 100 percent accurate. Though not infallible, when performed properly, the Pap smear detects a significant majority of cervical cancers — usually in the early stages when the likelihood of a cure is the greatest, according to the American Society of Clinical Pathologists.

Source: National Women’s Health Center

From Aaron Zinman:
This is slightly misleading, in that the vaccine hasn’t been out for very long. It takes many years to fully understand the effects to medications on the population at large. Risks of getting hit by a car, etc, however, are well understood and can be taken at face value. I’d be careful about what you present so authoritatively, as people automatically think ‘oh well if it doesn’t instantly kill me then it must be ok!’. Its useful to understand the short-term risks, but it must be labelled as such.

From Areyoukiddingme?

Too bad the information is misleading. It says 24,000,000 doses distributed NOT administered. Plus the percentage of people administered the vax is not being properly equated to how many people get cervical cancer FROM HPV. They should have taken the number of how many people get HPV (which is extremely high) and how many subsequently get cervical cancer from HPV, then take the number of deaths from cervical cancer, as a result of HPV, as the percentage, THEN match that to the number of vaccinated and the number of vaccine side effects and deaths. Totally different story. Gardisil only protects against 4 of the over 100 strains of HPV. So with the tiny bit of “assumed” protection it offers to HPV viruses that have a small chance of causing cervical cancer, the risk enormously outweighs the benefits. This is absurd. This illustration looks like a good bit of propaganda for the people that don’t think.


From hm:

Why not add this to your visualization:

Journalist John Carreyrou, quoting from FDA and Merck presentations, recently reported that
“in clinical trials, 361 of 8,817 women who received at least one shot of Gardasil went on to
develop precancerous lesions on their cervixes within three years of vaccination, just 14%
fewer than in a placebo control group.”

From Andrew Shirley"
IMO the last circle should be labelled “Dying while driving during the same year you had your HPV vaccine”. Otherwise driving would be *so* dangerous that you would be better not having the vaccine than driving to the surgery to get it.

From Jens Wesling:

So, what you are saying is that we are better off not getting the vaccine because you are more likely to die on the way to get it than you are to be saved from cervical cancer by it. :P

(yes, I know the argument is specious, it’s a joke.)

(the author changed the graph after realizing the 'mistake')

From J Thompson:

Chances of dying from the vaccine if you don’t take it: 0

From Holland:

I have the UK mumbers.
I also have the Correct numbers on the VAERS database.
They are different than yours.
I check the datbase myself and have it checked by some one else.
There have been more studie’s on the safety of both HPV vaccines.
I do not see those here.

I you want to present figures like this, do your homework and look further than CDC reports.
Always look for both sides.

From Holland:

I prefer to give you first the tools to do your one investigation on Gardasil so you can see that Gardasil is responsible for the most adverse reactions in the VAERS database.
Gardasil was licensed on june 8 2006 in the US. So you have to start your search on that date. Or just pick the first of June 2006.
You can find the data here http://www.medalerts.org/

Here you can find a document that is made by the mothers of the Gardasil girls. It has been send to politians all over the world. Gardasil en Cervarix are a worlwide problem and it is nothing to joke about, because to may girls suffer. Mothers from all over the world have joined together. Why would that happen??

Please read and your stats become alive and you can see their faces and read their stories
This article had more than 74.000 responses by now.
http://lecafpolitiquedecamusdecaf.blogspot.com/2009/09/gardasil-and-how-it-has-affected-lives.html

Oh and the number of UK reports went up with 50 this week there are 2207 reports now.

From A:

I totally respect your goal of debunking anti-vaccine hysteria.

However, here are a couple of points:

1. A Gardasil vaccination consists of three doses given at 0, 2, and 6 months. In your data, it looks like you’re using the number of doses administered as a proxy for the number of people who have been exposed to it, but you may need to divide by 3 (or 2.something, more likely).

2. Anecdotally, I was the fourth person to faint after being given a Gardasil injection at my school’s health center. I do not go to a very large school, and this was not very long after the vaccine was introduced. That your data only list 1564 cases of fainting total suggests to me that either my school is filled with fainting violets (unlikely) or that my fainting episode and many other fainting episodes have not been reported to the CDC (more likely).

3. Also anecdotally, that shot hurt like a *****, more than any other vaccine I’ve ever had (and I’ve had a few exotic vaccines and all the standard ones) and I couldn’t raise my arm above my shoulder for several months afterward.

Thus I find it unfortunate that valid concerns about side effects of the vaccine are not being taken seriously because of some combination of the fact that they’re happening to young girls and being buried in a mountain of ridiculous hype. Don’t tell me “it might sting a little”.

From hm:

You are looking at this through a very narrow, very unscientific lens. A low mortality rate during the first year after immunization does not mean this vaccine is safe, effective or necessary.

Let’s look at the facts:

Is the HPV vaccine necessary?

There is *no epidemic* of cervical cancer.

Deaths from cervical cancer are rare.

Cervical cancer typically develops slowly and can therefore be detected with regular Pap screening.

Two thirds of women with invasive cancers are not screened. These are disproportionately women living in poverty, immigrants and refugees and women who have experienced sexual trauma/ abuse.

Women who die of cervical cancer are often those who either don’t have access to appropriate primary care and seek medical help later in the disease stage, or who are not given proper follow-up after an abnormal Pap result.

But let’s back up because The HPV vaccine is *not* a cervical cancer vaccine. The HPV vaccine offers protection against a handful of strains of a particular virus that in some cases cause cervical cancer.

The anxiety that HPV is a new or imminent threat has been created by marketers and is unfounded.

Only a very small percentage of women with HPV infections actually develop cervical cancer.

With a healthy immune system, most women who become infected with HPV will clear the infection from their bodies, *with or without treatment*.

Over 80 per cent of HPV infections acquired at an early age are cleared spontaneously within 18 months.

There are high-risk and low-risk strains of HPV. The vaccine covers some of both. Most women who are infected with the “high-risk” strain of HPV *never* develop cervical cancer. The low-risk HPV strains covered by the vaccine cause genital warts and are in no way linked to cervical cancer. Advertisements do not distinguish between the high and low risk strains in an attempt to inflate the need for the vaccine.

Is the vaccine safe?

We don’t know. But concerns about the safety of the vaccine are not limited to its short-term effects.

The long-term effects are virtually unknown.

Almost all the published material we have about Gardasil comes from researchers supported directly or indirectly by the pharmaceutical company that developed the vaccine – a company that has been heavily advertising the vaccine throughout the American media. This
underscores the urgent need for further research by independent investigators.

A very small number of young girls were actually included in any of the studies.

Is it effective?

Again we don’t know.

There has been far too little testing done. But some of the current research is shocking:

“In clinical trials, 361 of 8,817 women who received at least one shot of the vaccine went on to develop precancerous lesions on their cervixes within three years of vaccination, just 14% fewer than in a placebo control group.”

So, should we be using this vaccine?

There is overwhelming evidence that the vaccine is not necessary, too little evidence to determine whether it is safe, and its effectiveness is unknown.

The extremely aggressive marketing campaign for the HPV vaccine has deliberately confused and frightened the public. Advertisements blur the distinction between HPV infections and cervical cancer in an effort to mislead the public.

This is one of the most expensive and profitable vaccines ever made.

Source:
HPV, Vaccines, and Gender: Policy Considerations, The Canadian Women’s Health Network, June 25, 2007

From hm:

Paul, you seem to want to ignore every piece of evidence I gave while providing nothing in return. Saying something is safe, or that the risk-beneift balance is in favor of the vaccine is meaningless without any additional information to back up your claims.

My original post was a summary of the following paper, and all of the sources for the studies I mentioned are available in this report (apologies for the broken link in my original post):

HPV, Vaccines, and Gender: Policy Considerations, The Canadian Women’s Health Network, June 25, 2007

The paper was prepared of by a committee of medical professionals covering a wide range of disciplines including Molecular Microbiology and Immunology, Epidemiology, Biostatistics, Occupational Health, Infectious Disease Research and Bioethics.



From RC:

there’s no benefit proven with Gardasil and cervical cancer incidence much less deaths from cervical cancer; the 2 trials of Gardasil proved a reduction in abnormal Pap smears in women much older than the target vaccine group; the Pap abnormalities prevented are actually IGNORED based on the latest recommendations since women under 20 clear the virus 98% of the time without interventions; remember the vaccine does wear off, according to the package insert from MERCK in 3-5 years ; so the only benefits are reduced abnormal Paps in an age group not at risk for progressing to cervical cancer

From Jo:
for starters, the ‘risks’ on your site are all x 3 as each person is given 3 doses of the vaccine.
also have you taken into account the deaths from cervical cancer where regular smears have taken place? (as most deaths are in those who have not had smears)

also your vaccines are safe and diseases are dangerous motto does not ring true, the risk of measles is also less that the chance of being hit by lightning, but the pharma companies go on about how dangerous measles is, and we need the mmr to ‘protect us’!….
In the UK up to one million children are NOT vaccinated with anything. (take 7%
of 700,000 annual live births and times by 18) and nearly 2 million are not
vaccinated for Mumps, measles and Rubella. (Take 15% etc).

Then take a look at the death rates.

My unvaccinated children are more likely to die on the roads, or in a hospital
(from MRSA) or even by lightening than die from these diseases. Herd immunity?
What about those millions of unvaccinated children walking around? And even
among the immune compromised, for whom we are supposed to vaccinate our healthy
children to protect, where are their deaths from these diseases. Nearly ZERO
in the UK.

100,000 folk died of measles 100 years ago, 100 died just BEFORE vaccines. So
if vaccines played any part in reducing death is was minute.

And what about safety?

Control groups of unvaccinated?
No, this would be unethical.

Use of the unvax by choice?
No this would not be double blind?

Placebo where the placebo is saline?
No unethical again – placebos in vaccine studies are usually other vaccines or
modified vaccines.

Long term follow up studies?
Er no, but we have the reporting system for adverse reactions?

Follow up studies to compare the health out comes for the vaccinated v the un
vax?
Er no.

Liability for the pharma companies?
No they are exempt. We all pay into a fund (USA) or tax (UK)

Independent body to oversee?
No, JCVI made up of industry and medical appointments in the UK mostly ‘believe’
in vaccines in the outset.

Fair reporting of diseases and vaccines to the public?
NO, the UK has a child health book which quotes figures for measles
complications from the third world. The Measles campaign hands out a book which
describes parents who don’t vaccinate as “anti-vaccine nutters.’ The media are
told not to report or present anything which may upset the vaccine ‘program’

Skeptics?
Healthy skeptics should work both ways.


From Ashley:

So this testing is from Aug 2009. That does not give me any piece of mind. What about any longterm testing, what do we know about its implications on infertiility?
 
There are a lot of names and links if you would like to dig deep and discredit every bit of information you can-- have fun.
Very cute... however, a lot of what you've posted has to do with the effectiveness of the vaccine long term, the manner in which it is marketed, if other means of detection and treatment are better, and such. If you've bothered to read what I've posted, you'll know that you're inviting me to disagree with things that I've said here on this thread that I don't find necessarily disagreeable. So you're wasting some ^C's and ^V's!

But I did find some VAERS abuse and some interesting editing that shows that the author isn't quite interesting in telling the whole story. Take this nugget:
The second report in the same issue of JAMA, by Barbara Slade and colleagues from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, addresses Gardasil-linked adverse events reported to the US national database, AERS, which comprise only an estimated 1% to 10% of actual adverse events. [2]
Between June 1, 2006, through December 31, 2008 VAERS received 12 424 reports of AEFIs following qHPV distribution, a rate of 53.9 reports per 100,000 doses distributed. 772 reports (6.2% of all reports) described serious AE following inocularion, including 32 reports of death.
The reporting rates per 100 000 qHPV doses distributed were 8.2 for syncope; 7.5 for local site reactions; 6.8 for dizziness; 5.0 for nausea; 4.1 for headache; 3.1 for hypersensitivity reactions; 2.6 for urticaria; 0.2 for venous thromboembolic events, autoimmune disorders, and Guillain-Barré syndrome; 0.1 for anaphylaxis and death; 0.04 for transverse myelitis and pancreatitis; and 0.009 for motor neuron disease. Disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events was noted with data mining methods. The authors acknowledge: "there was disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events," but they soft-peddle the significance of these (admittedly) underreported findings: "the significance of these findings must be tempered with the limitations (possible underreporting) of a passive reporting system."

Sound familiar? It should, as I posted this information on Post #22 of this thread. Well, sorta... Your author left out one key part. Here's the whole thing with the missing part bolded:
Numbers of reported AEFIs, reporting rates (reports per 100,000 doses of distributed vaccine or per person-years at risk), and comparisons with expected background rates. RESULTS: VAERS received 12 424 reports of AEFIs following qHPV distribution, a rate of 53.9 reports per 100,000 doses distributed. A total of 772 reports (6.2% of all reports) described serious AEFIs, including 32 reports of death. The reporting rates per 100,000 qHPV doses distributed were 8.2 for syncope; 7.5 for local site reactions; 6.8 for dizziness; 5.0 for nausea; 4.1 for headache; 3.1 for hypersensitivity reactions; 2.6 for urticaria; 0.2 for venous thromboembolic events, autoimmune disorders, and Guillain-Barré syndrome; 0.1 for anaphylaxis and death; 0.04 for transverse myelitis and pancreatitis; and 0.009 for motor neuron disease. Disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events was noted with data mining methods. CONCLUSIONS: Most of the AEFI rates were not greater than the background rates compared with other vaccines, but there was disproportional reporting of syncope and venous thromboembolic events. The significance of these findings must be tempered with the limitations (possible underreporting) of a passive reporting system.
If the author is trying to give an accurate picture, then why leave out the part that says that all but two of those things (some pretty scary) weren't above the "background" levels found in other populations? Also, when addressing the issue of possible underreporting (standard boilerplate) in the CDC report, when is saying something is "possible" an "admission" that it is actually happening?

Also, what is their basis for this assertion: "the US national database, AERS, which comprise only an estimated 1% to 10% of actual adverse events." They throw it in there as a known fact. But, I also addressed this earlier in this thread too, in Post #51 "Well, unless you're going to say that under-reporting is unique to Gardasil, then the other baselines would be similarly effected too, so that'd be a moot point."

Oh, and there's this misleading item:
The risks of serious adverse events including death reported after Gardasil use in (the JAMA article by CDC’s Dr. Barbara Slade) were 3.4/100,000 doses distributed. The rate of serious adverse events on par with the death rate of cervical cancer.
The most common adverse reactions reported in the VAERS were: fainting (8.2/1000,000); injection site irritation (7.5/100,000); dizziness (6.8/100,000); nausea (5/100,000); and headache (4.1/100,000). Doesn't it seem a little far fetched and dishonest to compare those things to dying of cervical cancer??? The reported instances of the two more serious issues were: blood clots (1/500,000) and death (1/1,000,000).

That's all for now... must... rest.

Update: I'm not here to defend Merck's promotional practices when the launched Gardasil, but I think your cut-n-paste is attributing stuff to the JAMA article that isn't there:
A report by Drs. Sheila Rothman and David Rothman in the same issue of JAMA, documents how Merck resorted to corrupt practices in the promotion of Gardasil, much as it had done in the marketing of Vioxx. [1]
The authors expose Merck's covert payments to professional medical associations who sponsored marketing events at which commercial propaganda masqueraded as "educational" material. Merck not only bankrolled professional medical associations, the company provided ready-made presentations, slide sets, e-mails, and letters endorsing the vaccine--which were disseminated under the auspices of influential medical associations.
Here's the full text of the JAMA article. Merck certainly receives criticism in the piece, but the JAMA authors don't accuse Merck of "corruption", they don't call the Merck materials "propaganda", they don't claim that they were the ones that "exposed" Merck's funding of the PMA's. I find the JAMA article's conclusions reasonable... but there's no reason for the article to be re-packaged and then turn up the inflammatory rhetoric.
 
The problem with this is that your average person is not educated in such a way to be able to make sense of many of the actual studies. This how so many things get twisted and misrepresented. (Please note that I am not saying people are stupid or uneducated, just lacking a specialized knowledge!) You need to have a fairly good working knowledge of the process of how studies are conducted and a strong knowledge of statistical analysis to read a lot of the information out there. I think this is why so many people rely on Google University.

I have two degrees, but neither of them was focused on either math or science. I've spent countless hours teaching myself the basics. I am married to a mathematical biologist and there are still many, many times I need help deciphering what the results of a study actually mean.

I agree completely though, that when making a decision that has implications such as choosing to vaccinate, that everyone should become an expert. Take the time, find the help you need, and learn everything you can from as many sources as you can.

Specific to this discussion, I suggest checking out this site. It's a brilliant visual representation of the available data:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/how-safe-is-the-hpv-vaccine/

Edited to add: I did not get this vaccine (too old now, but not when it first came out). I was not convinced by what I read that it was right for me, even though I am generally pro-vaccination.

It's probably quite true that most people don't understand the process, but there is nothing wrong with asking your doctor what he/she thinks. If you truly believe that person would steer you in the wrong direction due to financial gain, I'd highly suggest you find another doctor.

My daughter's pediatrician highly recommended the vaccine series (I thought it was 2 shots, but see it was 3 and I must have forgotten 1). It was stressed however that my daughter would not be protected from any partner she may have been intimate with prior to getting the shots. That's why is so important to get them prior to sexual activity.
 

OK, a couple more glaring corkers...

Too bad the information is misleading. It says 24,000,000 doses distributed NOT administered.
Well, DUUUUHHHH! Once a year each Pharma company is required to report to the FDA the number of doses of each product sold in that given year. That number is then used to compare with adverse reporting events to get an idea of the rate of occurrence. There's no way to count how much of it was used by patients in a given year. But again, the bias exists in all of the data so it's factored into the comparisons.


also your vaccines are safe and diseases are dangerous motto does not ring true, the risk of measles is also less that the chance of being hit by lightning, but the pharma companies go on about how dangerous measles is, and we need the mmr to ‘protect us’!….
In the UK up to one million children are NOT vaccinated with anything. (take 7%
of 700,000 annual live births and times by 18) and nearly 2 million are not
vaccinated for Mumps, measles and Rubella. (Take 15% etc).

Then take a look at the death rates.
I'll have to go find it tomorrow, but I recall there's a lovely chart that shows the after effects in the UK of Dr. Wakefield's, now discredits and rebuked, study linking MMR's with autism. Parents panicked, stopped the vacinnations... and guess what happened?
 
[/B]ttp://www.cdc.gov/cancer/cervical/statistics/

Now it seems to me that a vaccine that will reduce the cervical cancer rate by at least 60% will save 7200 women from hearing, "you have cervical cancer". It will save 2400 families from grieving over their wives, sisters and mothers. It will save 1.2 Billion dollars. Sounds like its "worth the price of admission to me". I believe that Dr. Harper's conclusions are wrong.

I am going to put in my two cents based on this response. I am the mother of a 23 year old, who due to a "precancerous" condition, will be having having a LEEP procedure done. A biopsy will also be done to make sure that there are no cancerous cells. Scary stuff. She did get the shot two weeks ago.

If in the future this vaccination winds up being effective against even just one type of cervical cancer I say Bravo! I have a few years before I will need to decide if my youngest daughter gets it, I'll cross that bridge when I need to.

All drugs and vaccinations have risks.There are many of us (my generation) that were guinea pigs, so to speak,for future generations who received vaccinations. Heck, look at the chicken pox vaccine. In the grand scheme of things, it hasn't been around that long. It was just coming out when my 21 year old was little. I guess time will tell with Gardasil won't it?
 
Why did you drag the banking industry into your argument?




But what if somewhere down the road it's discovered that 60% of the girls who avoided cervical cancer now have some other debilitating, life-threatening reaction to the vaccine?

Because we have years of experience with vaccines, and that is not how immungenicity works.
 
It's probably quite true that most people don't understand the process, but there is nothing wrong with asking your doctor what he/she thinks. If you truly believe that person would steer you in the wrong direction due to financial gain, I'd highly suggest you find another doctor.

My daughter's pediatrician highly recommended the vaccine series (I thought it was 2 shots, but see it was 3 and I must have forgotten 1). It was stressed however that my daughter would not be protected from any partner she may have been intimate with prior to getting the shots. That's why is so important to get them prior to sexual activity.

Absolutely ask your doctor! But also keep in mind that they will have their own opinion that will heavily influence any advice they give you. After combing though the H1N1 information and studies, I'm always surprised to hear there are doctors recommending not getting it (in general, not in specific cases when it would not be tolerated well). This speaks to me if a lack of proper research on the doctors part and I wonder what information they're using to form their opinions... But that's beside the point, and we're not debating the H1N1 vaccine.

However, a doctor would be a great place to start because it's true that we simply can't be experts in everything. When you can't fully understand the information yourself, you need to find someone you trust who has more experience to help you. In my case, I'm learning how to read a lot of studies myself, but I trust my husband to help me. :) If you trust your doctor to read and interpret the information for you, that's really no different than trusting any other credible source.

@ Dismom2: I tried reading through the information you posted, but the various size fonts and colors hurt my head! I finally did a copy and paste into Word to read through it. :upsidedow
 
Absolutely ask your doctor! But also keep in mind that they will have their own opinion that will heavily influence any advice they give you. After combing though the H1N1 information and studies, I'm always surprised to hear there are doctors recommending not getting it (in general, not in specific cases when it would not be tolerated well). This speaks to me if a lack of proper research on the doctors part and I wonder what information they're using to form their opinions... But that's beside the point, and we're not debating the H1N1 vaccine.

However, a doctor would be a great place to start because it's true that we simply can't be experts in everything. When you can't fully understand the information yourself, you need to find someone you trust who has more experience to help you. In my case, I'm learning how to read a lot of studies myself, but I trust my husband to help me. :) If you trust your doctor to read and interpret the information for you, that's really no different than trusting any other credible source.

@ Dismom2: I tried reading through the information you posted, but the various size fonts and colors hurt my head! I finally did a copy and paste into Word to read through it. :upsidedow

So, if you ask your doctor and your doctor says to get a particular vaccine, you should listen to your doctor. However, if your doctor recommends skipping a particular vaccine, that doctor lacks proper research? :confused3
 
So, if you ask your doctor and your doctor says to get a particular vaccine, you should listen to your doctor. However, if your doctor recommends skipping a particular vaccine, that doctor lacks proper research? :confused3

In my opinion, yes. After reading the information myself, regarding the H1N1 vaccine, I find it surprising. The data available is convincing so I do question any medical professional not recommending vaccination. I wonder what they're reading and what information they're using to base their opinions on.

However, I know you disagree and I have no intent of debating with you. I've tried that and found it frustrating and don't feel like enduring the personal attacks on my character. Although, if you're so inclined, I did make a terrible mess of dinner last night so you could have a go at my cooking skills. Otherwise, please take my comments as nothing more than my opinion, which is different than yours.

That said, if you have a particular study or paper you feel I would benefit from reading, I would be happy to look it up.
 
So, if you ask your doctor and your doctor says to get a particular vaccine, you should listen to your doctor. However, if your doctor recommends skipping a particular vaccine, that doctor lacks proper research? :confused3

LOL! I was thinking the same thing! Believe me, doctors are not perfect, do not have access to anything more than we have on the internet, and in some cases they just don't bother to look up anything and go with the prevailing wind on prescribing.

Do your own research and make your own decision.
 
In my opinion, yes. After reading the information myself, regarding the H1N1 vaccine, I find it surprising. The data available is convincing so I do question any medical professional not recommending vaccination. I wonder what they're reading and what information they're using to base their opinions on.

However, I know you disagree and I have no intent of debating with you. I've tried that and found it frustrating and don't feel like enduring the personal attacks on my character. Although, if you're so inclined, I did make a terrible mess of dinner last night so you could have a go at my cooking skills. Otherwise, please take my comments as nothing more than my opinion, which is different than yours.

That said, if you have a particular study or paper you feel I would benefit from reading, I would be happy to look it up.

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:
 



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