"Giving away" your daughter at her wedding

[mhsjax]

I don't understand why people get so heated about people discussing the topic posted on a discussion board.

If you think it's not an issue, don't read the thread, don't post on it. Why take time out of your life to talk about an issue you think is a nonissue?

If you want to keep traditions, then do it, don't worry if other people, when asked what they thought about the traditions, give their opinion.

OMG, are you kidding me. I guess if we don't agree with you, we should just shut the hell up. YOu did tell me on another topic that this was a discussion board, well that implies you discuss, not argue until you have everyone convinced that you are 100% correct, which is what you want to do. That isn't going to happen.

 

[chobie]

I am sorry, but you seem to be the one getting upset. YOu are determined to change everyones mind, YOu are the one coming across as heated and argumentative.

YOu keep saying if something isn't as issue then don't read it, yet we should be allowed to say it isn't an issue, but you just won't accept that, you have to come back an argue. You seem to want to argue ANY topic, you just won't let a different opinion go, you have to come back an argue again and again.

If you have a whole thread of people agreeing, it isn't a discussion board, something you reminded me on another post. What you want is a whole thread of people agreeing with everything you say. News flash, we do have different opinions and no matter what you say and no matter how many times or how nasty you get, some of us will still disagree.

Right but people using all caps, saying "YOU" etc, oh not hostile or nasty, all just peaches and cream?

I'm not backing down from my opinion, but I am not telling anyone I think they are wrong for keeping them. i think the traditions are based on sexism. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think some people don't want to hear my opinion so they personally attack me to make me stop.

 

[mhsjax]

Right but people using all caps, saying "YOU" etc, oh not hostile or nasty, all just peaches and cream?

I'm not backing down from my opinion, but not am I telling anyone I think they are wrong. I think the traditions are sexist. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think some people don't want to hear my opinion so they personally attack me to make me stop.

I see it the exact opposite, I see you as the argumentative one and nasty one. You don't want to hear other people's opinion if it doesn't agree with yours. By the way, don't you find it strange that "some" meaning more than one, attack you personally? Maybe there is a common thread and maybe it is you. Just saying.

 

[chobie]

I see it the exact opposite, I see you as the argumentative one and nasty one. You don't want to hear other people's opinion if it doesn't agree with yours.

Yes, well you called me nasty several times now. How many names have I called you?

 

[chobie]

I see it the exact opposite, I see you as the argumentative one and nasty one. You don't want to hear other people's opinion if it doesn't agree with yours.

Double post

 

[mhsjax]

Yes, we'll you called me nasty several times now. How many names have I called you?

What does one have to do with the other? NOTHING.
The fact still remains.

 

[chobie]

What does one have to do with the other? NOTHING.
The fact still remains.

The fact remains you are the one doing the name calling. Nasty is as nasty does.

And that's your opinion, which you are entitled to,, although it seems like a personal attack to me.

I

 

[chobie]

What does one have to do with the other? NOTHING.
The fact still remains.

Have a nice day.

 

[Granny square]

Lol, I wouldn't get so heated up our the YOu's. my phone typing pulls that one all of the time when I type you at the beginning of a sentence. Have never bothered to figure out why.

But you probably won't find the reaction as amusing as I did.

 

[chobie]

Lol, I wouldn't get so heated up our the YOu's. my phone typing pulls that one all of the time when I type you at the beginning of a sentence. Have never bothered to figure out why.

But you probably won't find the reaction as amusing as I did.

Ha, the autocorrect messes with my posts all the time, too. Much prefer a keyboard to the iPhone.

 

[Granny square]

I am always on my cell phone if I have time to read and write. So I have so e standard things like that which I always notice AFTER I've pushed send.

And cringe at how poorly I proofread anymore!

 

[Disney Doll]

Anybody remember the tv show "Taxi", when Latka and Simka got married (Andy Kauffman and Carol Kane)? They were from some undisclosed Balkan-esque country and it was the tradition that the groom wear a wedding dress. Latka's mother came for the wedding and said "Oh, I've waiting for so many years to see you wearing your father's wedding dress!" Simka was required to walk around Latka three times balancing a huge wreath of flowers on her head. If she could keep the flowers on her head for all three trips around, it proved that she was a virgin. About 3/4 of the way around the first time, the wreath exploded. Now there are some "customs" that would definitely liven up a wedding!

Classic!!! LOL!!!!!!

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Maybe it was twice you questioning my intentions about my posts, e.g., "truly questions"?

And the defensive sounding, "I'm sure I"ll get flamed" or "abso-freakinlutly". Sentences in all caps, etc.

You asked 4 questions in one post and I'm defensive for asking 2..... Ok.

I'm sure I'll get flamed was not defensive. It was relative to me stating that men and women are different. You should see the "gender neutral" discussions from other boards...

I said abso-freakin-lutely because I'm a sports fan and was a bartender for quite a while. It was for enthusiasm, not defense.

I haven't written a single sentence in all caps.

Maybe you're reading too much into the whole defensive thing.

 

[Disney Doll]

To all the people who don't understand the need to think about these things, I would offer that the sexist traditions of marriage ceremonies are actually quite pervasive when taken together:

(Note: I am not saying everyone does these things. But they are all traditional.)

- The man asks permission/approval/for the blessing of the father.
- The man asks the woman to get married. She can range between hopeful of the proposal, or surprised, but it is his decision.
- Women receive an engagement ring. It starts on day one. Why is the tradition that you wear a ring that marks you as taken, while he wears nothing?
- The woman has a shower to "set up her new home."
- Men have a stag, because they have to have a last night out before they chain themselves to a woman. (Yes, stagettes/hens nights are more common now.)
- Women plan the wedding. It is a pivotal day in their lives, taking months or years to plan. They have dreamed about it and imagined it. Most men just show up.
- Women have rituals associated with preparing to wed. They wear something borrowed, etc. to bring the marriage luck. In many cultures there is a cleansing ritual to purify the woman. Men get dressed.
- The tradition that the brides parents pay for the wedding, while the grooms parents skate by relatively unscathed, has troubling roots in dowries.
- Women are given away/escorted/presented. Men stand on their own.
- The veil is lifted, a tradition rife with symbolism.
- In some ceremonies women promise to obey.
- "You many now kiss the bride." The man initiates the marriage.
- Women change their title from Miss to Mrs. Because their status has changed. Men, however, remain the same. Their marital status is not disclosed through their title.
- Woman change their last name, sometimes becoming Mrs. HisFristName HisLastName. In surveys many men would outright refuse to take a woman's last name. Some men refuse to marry if the woman doesn't change her name. It's important to them. Yet if a man feels it makes him less somehow to change his name, logically it follows that a woman is less for changing hers.
- The woman tosses her bouquet so that one unfortunate, single women can hopefully be married soon, too.

I am not saying any of these things is wrong, or that the symbolism hasn't or can't change. But the traditions of marriage are very sexist and patriarchal. To dismiss those who think about these things as "over thinking" is, in my opinion, just wrong. Traditions and history should be thought about. I might take the opposite view and say that those who follow tradition simply for traditions sake do so unthinkingly and blindly, not knowing what they participate in or why.

Again, just to be clear, I don't think the modern versions if some of these traditions are bad. I just also don't think that considering them, thinking about them, is bad either.

Like I said...some people really overthink things.

I am secure with who I am as a woman, I am not anyone's property, there is no one who thinks I am anyone's property...not my father, not my husband nor any other man that I come into contact with in my daily life. Some folks see the traditions as sexist, some folks see the traditions as loving or respectful. I prefer to look at them from the positive perspective of loving or respectful. But I'm a "glass half full" person, not a "glass half empty" person.

 

[HM]

How did that one turn out?

Still going strong as far as I know. I guess it works for them....or they reevaluated at some point?

 

[chobie]

You asked 4 questions in one post and I'm defensive for asking 2..... Ok.

I'm sure I'll get flamed was not defensive. It was relative to me stating that men and women are different. You should see the "gender neutral" discussions from other boards...

I said abso-freakin-lutely because I'm a sports fan and was a bartender for quite a while. It was for enthusiasm, not defense.

I haven't written a single sentence in all caps.

Maybe you're reading too much into the whole defensive thing.

I'm sorry, you only put half of some sentences in all caps, not whole sentences. You are correct. Although putting things in all caps is often considered the Internet version of yelling

And, pray tell, what is the cut-off limit for questions before it becomes defensive?

 

[bunkkinsmom]

I'm sorry, you only put half of some sentences in all caps, not whole sentences. You are correct. Although putting things in all caps is often considered the Internet version of yelling

And, pray tell, what is the cut-off limit for questions before it becomes defensive?

For clarification, the only thing I put in all caps was "IN MY OPINION" and "WE ARE DIFFERENT". They were in the same sentence. That's it. Out of all of my posts on this thread, some of which were quite lengthy, that's it. All caps can also be used for inflection.

And, pray tell, you tell me. You're the one that made the accusation.

 

[chobie]

For clarification, the only thing I put in all caps was "IN MY OPINION" and "WE ARE DIFFERENT". They were in the same sentence. That's it. Out of all of my posts on this thread, some of which were quite lengthy, that's it. All caps can also be used for inflection.

And, pray tell, you tell me. You're the one that made the accusation.

You're the one who commented on the fact that I asked 4 questions, then implied whether that was defensive. In my opinion, no, asking 4 questions is not defensive. So, what is your opinion about how many questions one can ask in any given post?

And we're you not implying I was insincere when you twice queried whether my questions were "truly" questions? I

 

[bunkkinsmom]

You're the one who commented on the fact that I asked 4 questions, then queried whether that was defensive. In my opinion, no, asking 4 questions is not defensive. So, what is your opinion about how many questions one can ask in any given post?

Actually, I didn't query anything.
At this point you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
I don't really care how many questions you ask in a post. Frankly, I answered every single one of your questions. You said my posts were defensive sounding. I tried to clarify that with each individual instance that you posted.

 

[diznygirl]

But Mom, she started it!



This is so not a conversation OR a debate anymore.

As most women, I did what I did for my wedding because it was what I wanted to do. I'm fully aware that I'm not anyone's property - I think most women have figured this out for themselves as well. So don't try to tell us what we did, what we meant by it, and why we should be ashamed of ouselves.