Girl Scouts - Privacy Rules

[Pete's Mom]

My son was a cub scout (I know, not the same), but they required them to wear their swim shorts to camp. Can your DD wear her suit under her clothes to camp and alleviate the need to have to change?

I think that this is an excellent idea! I would tell her when she changes BACK into her clothes to do so in the bathroom stall. She can tell anyone who asks that she is multi-tasking!

Kudos to you that can let it all hang out. I am a stall diver myself so I completely identify with the kids who are a little shy.

I will make however, make an exception and moon anyone who picks on my post.

 

[luvmy3]

There isn't a parents day or camp open house? Is this camp owned by GSUSA? Or are you talking about a place where the troop camp and not a SU or Council ran day camp or resident camp.

No, this camp is not owned by GSUSA. I was just letting the poster who I quoted know that its not always possible for parents to check out the camps beforehand. We are a new council this year, and have many new camps to use, but this one, that my troop has done various day camp events at, is not owned by GSUSA. Parents aren't even allowed to drive them into the camp, they must be dropped off to the leaders or GS volunteers in the parking lot.

 

[Geoff_M]

I wasn't saying that changing in public is a physical disability or that a court would find it as such. For many young girls, it is a psychological issue though but that wasn't the point I was making either. Quite simply, according to universal human rights children are allowed to have privacy when nude.

On what then would be the basis for the possible court case that you alluded to that the GSUSA would be certain to lose? As for "universal human rights", those have no legal standing in the courts. And such privacy is not universally guaranteed in even the juvenile system.

I'm not arguing for or against accommodation in this case, but I think a legal challenge to a child being disallowed from attending camp due to an unwillingness, by choice, to adhere to a "rule" would be shaky at best.

As for the semantics, if access is restricted by gender and age, then at worst what you are describing is "semi-public".

 

[sha_lyn]

It just dawned on me that we strongly suggest the girls wear their bathing suites under their clothes on swimming day and canoing day. We then have them change into their clothes after the activity. When it is the activity right before lunch, changing is pretty easy because you can send just a few girls at a time instead of the unit. When a water activity is the last activity of the day is when it takes forever. If a unit isn't the first one back up the hill from the lake, they end up waiting past time to go down to the dock for carpool.
The day we swam one of the other units their girls take all their stuff down to the beach. However there was no where to change, so the girls were getting in the carpool vans and their parents cars wet. Of course they were getting on the pontoon boats wet too, but those can get wet.
Thank goodness the day I drove my van for carpool was the last day. There is no swimming on the first or last day other than staff kids can swim test on the first day. DD loves being a staff kid on the day I had afternoon duty. They get a snack and they get to swim. She didn't want to leave. The one day I had boat duty I was asked to join the pits and pals for a boat ride after carpool. Those teenagers (well the pits are 12. the pals are 13-17)are nuts. We were singing at the top of our lungs and waving at everyone we saw.

If I do volunteer next yr I'm going to request to work with the pits, pals or one of the activities. Being a unit leader was really stressful this yr.

 

[sha_lyn]

No, this camp is not owned by GSUSA. I was just letting the poster who I quoted know that its not always possible for parents to check out the camps beforehand. We are a new council this year, and have many new camps to use, but this one, that my troop has done various day camp events at, is not owned by GSUSA. Parents aren't even allowed to drive them into the camp, they must be dropped off to the leaders or GS volunteers in the parking lot.

I am so glad that the place we use allows us to have an open house. I'm certain they would allow the parent on the property for drop-off and pick-up too, but it just isn't feasable. For open house the GS camp has to set up different times for each age group because of the narrow road and lack of parking

 

[Missy1961]

I'm a little late to this thread, and I am trying to read all the responses.

But if a 7 yr old does not want to change in front of others, it isn't because we as Americans are too modest, or her parents hover over her, or because she's thinks it's bad. She's modest, no more, no less. I don't have kids, but I have 14 nieces & nephews & I take care of them a lot. The same kid that at 2 or 3 or 4 had no problem running around naked at 7 or 9 or 10 prefers going into the bathroom or bedroom to change. As their aunt, I respect their decisions about where they want to change.

It sounds to me like the OP is a mom that tried to go thru the proper channels to get an answer.

 

[Magic Mom]

Boys are different. My son strips down to his boxers in gym class and when he changes to swim. It's not the same for girls, especially changing into a swimsuit.

I don't think that's true.I've taken troops to overnight resident troop camp, and none of them have had problems changing in front of their bunkmates (not adults). They've always had the option of going up to the bathroom (YUCK! can you say camp pit toilets???) to change, or an adult will take them to the showers to change, but that cuts into their own specific activity time, not the rest of the troops. None of them have ever taken that option. We're usually on a pretty strict schedule, and no one wants their swim or kayak time cut into. I did have one girl who was feeling shy about it, and the rest of her tent told her not to worry about it, they would turn their backs and change facing away from her. I asked her if that was OK with her, and she was fine with it. In her case, I think that was a powerful moment. She learned that she could trust, and that people cared, and that she wasn't alone. There was a clear difference in the way she related to her bunk mates after that. These were 8 year olds.

 

[nuke]

I don't understand why the leaders can't be a bit more resourceful. Why not run a line of rope and clip some sheets to it to form a make shift changing room? It wouldn't be expensive, it would take up little room and solve the problem of girls changing in the toilet stalls.
I think if a child wants privacy to change she should get it.

 

[Magic Mom]

I don't understand why the leaders can't be a bit more resourceful. Why not run a line of rope and clip some sheets to it to form a make shift changing room? It wouldn't be expensive, it would take up little room and solve the problem of girls changing in the toilet stalls.
I think if a child wants privacy to change she should get it.

I can't speak for other leaders, but for my troop, if a parent wants make shift changing rooms put up, then they are more then welcome to camp along with us and put one up. Believe me, I would WELCOME some parent support. Other then that, I offer enough options. I work extrememly hard to provide a girl driven, well rounded program to the girls, and I can't make every one happy. If changing in a tent with the other girls, or the in bathroom in privacy isn't enough, then your two options left are to skip camp, or camp with us and provide her with a changing room.
And yes I realize its hard for some parents to camp because of work, because both my co-leader and I take off from work to take them camping.

 

[nuke]

I can't speak for other leaders, but for my troop, if a parent wants make shift changing rooms put up, then they are more then welcome to camp along with us and put one up. Believe me, I would WELCOME some parent support. Other then that, I offer enough options. I work extrememly hard to provide a girl driven, well rounded program to the girls, and I can't make every one happy. If changing in a tent with the other girls, or the in bathroom in privacy isn't enough, then your two options left are to skip camp, or camp with us and provide her with a changing room.
And yes I realize its hard for some parents to camp because of work, because both my co-leader and I take off from work to take them camping.

But the OP said changing in the bathroom wasn't an option for her daughter.

 

[Magic Mom]

But the OP said changing in the bathroom wasn't an option for her daughter.

I was just commenting on your mention of bathroom stalls.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

On what then would be the basis for the possible court case that you alluded to that the GSUSA would be certain to lose? As for "universal human rights", those have no legal standing in the courts. And such privacy is not universally guaranteed in even the juvenile system.

I'm not arguing for or against accommodation in this case, but I think a legal challenge to a child being disallowed from attending camp due to an unwillingness, by choice, to adhere to a "rule" would be shaky at best.

As for the semantics, if access is restricted by gender and age, then at worst what you are describing is "semi-public".

I'm not sure if you realized it or not but you just said that universal human rights have no legal standing in the courts. Have you ever taken even a basic law or political science course in your life? Have you studied the American Constitution even? What do you think all of these things are based on? Human rights! Why do you think America is such an active player in the United Nations?

I think it would be a big waste of time for the OP to take this into the court system. As I said before, that's not what I'm advocating. However, if there was a child's parent who insisted that their child be given privacy to change and were told, as the PP suggested, that their child couldn't attend that camp unless they changed in front of other people and that parent did take GSUSA to court, GSUSA would not have a legal leg to stand on. Your definition of public doesn't really matter because, quite simply, an organization cannot legally force a child to be nude in front of anyone. Ever.

 

[kimmikayb]

I come back to this conversation to find out people want to sue Girl Scouts now?

Well it would solve the dressing in private situation because when people start to sue over everything they feel is wrong, the Girl Scouts will not exist and everyone can dress in private...in their own home.

There were several good options given to the OP. I haven't gone back over the thread but I hope her DD is having fun at camp.

 

[mickeyboat]

I come back to this conversation to find out people want to sue Girl Scouts now?

Well it would solve the dressing in private situation because when people start to sue over everything they feel is wrong, the Girl Scouts will not exist and everyone can dress in private...in their own home.

There were several good options given to the OP. I haven't gone back over the thread but I hope her DD is having fun at camp.

Don't worry - not planning to sue.

DDs had a good time yesterday and were excited to go back today. I don't think either will be swimming, though, since DD7 really enjoyed the alternative activity she did yesterday and DD8 had some issues in the locker room. I sent their suits with suggestions today and will let it be their choice to swim or not to swim.

Denae

 

[The Mystery Machine]

But the OP said changing in the bathroom wasn't an option for her daughter.

You know it is probably more of a free for all as in whoever gets to the stall first gets to change there.

I have raised my dd's with a little more backbone and that if they did have an issue they could "stand their ground" in a polite but firm way with adults.

I have had a leader go off on me in the huge cafeteria FULL OF KIDS AND ADULTS at camp. Camping can get stressful at times.

My dd's have been taught to say in private to the people in charge that I have an anxiety issue, a growth that is embarrassing, etc...whatever it takes to get the end result.

Yea, sometimes it is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" scenario.

I think that is part of the problem with the OP's dd. Need to learn how to be polite but assertive to get what she wants at camp.

As a former leader it would be a reasonable request if a girl came to me and explained she had "issues".

If the folks did not respect that then the camp leaders really are jerks. I run across plenty of adult GS jerks at camp.

 

[kimmikayb]

Don't worry - not planning to sue.

DDs had a good time yesterday and were excited to go back today. I don't think either will be swimming, though, since DD7 really enjoyed the alternative activity she did yesterday and DD8 had some issues in the locker room. I sent their suits with suggestions today and will let it be their choice to swim or not to swim.

Denae

Now this is what I love to hear....that your DDs had a good time!!

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

I come back to this conversation to find out people want to sue Girl Scouts now?

No. I was the one who brought up the legal aspect. My point was that if you could win your case in a court of law that you have a valid complaint to make and the GS leaders should take it seriously. Once again, it was hypothetical. I'm not suggesting that the OP sue GSUSA.

If the folks did not respect that then the camp leaders really are jerks. I run across plenty of adult GS jerks at camp.

Well some of the leaders on this very thread said that they would not accomodate the girl, that she has to take a deep breath and deal with her own issues, and that the rules are the rules.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Well some of the leaders on this very thread said that they would not accomodate the girl, that she has to take a deep breath and deal with her own issues, and that the rules are the rules.

Yea, but it is different when you are at camp and you have a girl that talks to you privately.

The OP's dd is young and she will develop her skills at her pace. I think she is handling it well.

 

[mickeyboat]

MM - It isn't an issue of backbone. DD7 has plenty and has chosen not to participate in an activity that she enjoys to protect her right to privacy.

The other side of the issue is that there are rules in place and DD has been taught that she is not to break them. She was told in no uncertain terms that she was not allowed to use the changing rooms, bathroom stalls or shower stalls to change.

My involvement initially was to find out if there was some logical explanation or reason why the girls could not have privacy while changing. I have not been convinced there is an explanation other than it would take too much time and if they let one child change in private, they would have to let everyone else do so as well.

My secondary goal was to see if there was a solution which would satisfy the concerns of the camp staff and my DD, but apparently they are not willing to take the time to come up with anything other than to have a friend hold up a towel.

Now DD is having so much fun with the alternative activity that she doesn't want to work on a solution. I think if they had shown one shred of interest in helping her figure out a solution, I never would have gotten involved in the first place. Last year she resorted to stuffing herself into a locker to change.

 

[dreamer17555]

Last year she resorted to stuffing herself into a locker to change.

And you decided again to send her to a camp program that was obviously not a good fit for your family?

-Becca-