Girl Scouts - Privacy Rules

[JVL1018]

Some people will never understand, you're wasting your energy.

OT, but since so many of you brought this up....I cannot believe (1) kids aren't showering after PE???? Our kids are required to shower and put deo back on. (2) Some kids are wearing their PE clothes ALL day? (3) There are some schools not requiring PE??

.

We had gym, starting in 5th grade we had a locker room, we had gym clothes in the locker room and had to chnage for gym. There were showers in the locker rooms.
Never, not once did anyone, boys or girls ever take a shower after gym.
Girls did not shower after sports practices or games,we went home and showered.
Boys did after football and basketball and wrestling practices and games, that was it.

I just asked my husband about his school: Girls NEVER showered after gym. Sometimes boys did if they got reallllly sweaty, but it was extremely rare.

I just did a poll of my email loop from all over the country and no one showered, except one girl who had to do it , but only after swimming-the only one who had a pool in her school.
The answer from most was: No! Never ever ever!

 

[sha_lyn]

At one of our local camps, parents would not be allowed to visit, it is not open to the public. It is only open to non profit organizations.
I really hope when my troop goes to camp, we don't have any of these issues

There isn't a parents day or camp open house? Is this camp owned by GSUSA? Or are you talking about a place where the troop camp and not a SU or Council ran day camp or resident camp.

 

[summerrluvv]

My son was a cub scout (I know, not the same), but they required them to wear their swim shorts to camp. Can your DD wear her suit under her clothes to camp and alleviate the need to have to change?

 

[allison443]

Any GS leaders "in the know" about rules related to changing clothes in groups? My DDs are at a GS day camp this week. Although it is located at a fitness complex, the leaders will not allow the girls to change into and out of their suits in a stall. They insist the girls change all together in the locker area.

DD7 is mortified and refuses to change in front of everyone else. She initially refused to attend the camp again this year until I told her I would talk to the director about the issue. Otherwise, she enjoys the camp immensely. Last year she resorted to changing inside a locker, and wore her suit under her clothes most days.

I emailed the camp director several weeks ago and didn't get a response. I talked to her at drop-off this morning, and she said that there is not enough time to allow all the girls to change in private. Her only option to get privacy is to have someone hold a towel for her. So she has decided to opt out of swimming.

I called the Unit director at Council and reached her cell phone. She was at the camp when I called and backed up the camp director. She also said she had not seen the facilities and assumed there was no good way for the kids to change in private. I disagreed, but really couldn't talk with her at length.

So, does anyone know if there is a GS policy on this issue? I don't generally expect special treatment for my kids in these kinds of situations, but this really rubs me the wrong way.

TIA,
Denae

Back to the original question in the OP, I have been a GS leader since 1994 and I am not even sure of the official answer...personally on all camping trips or overnights my troops have taken, I never was in the room or tent when the girls changed. Is an adult in the locker room with the girls when they change? I would be surprised if GS allows that. I am also surprised that at a fitness center (not a camp in the woods that another poster was discussing her experience with) they would not let your 7 year old DD use a bathroom stall to change. GS is usually very big on accomodating the girls so they can have a good experience.

OP I think you had some good suggestions for your daughter to try, especially the big t-shirt. I hope it works out for her and she is able to get changed comfortably so she can swim.

 

[allison443]

Our daycamp is ran 100% by volunteers. No one is a paid employee of GSUSA.
.

This varies from council to council (just like everything else about GS, it seems ) Our council's day camp is run by paid council staff. If leaders volunteer as aides, you get a discount for your daughter to attend the camp.
A week at day camp Monday to Friday costs $275. If you are in the horseback riding program it costs $375 for the week.

 

[JennaTX]

My DD last year was in 3rd grade. I am co-leader for the troop.

We took two camping trips (troop only, not council or day camps) .

On the camping trips it was 2 days and 1 night. We use the "buddy rule" with everything whether it is going into the bathrooms or walking to campfire....you must have someone with you.

None of our troop was worried about changing in front of someone. But I think that is because we only have about 11 girls in our troop and they are all very close. Some of the girls wanted to go to the bathroom to change whch was fine as long as they had a buddy, but most didn't care. I thought this was a good experience for when they do get older and are in jr. high and have to change with a room full of girls....at least this first time some of them were changing around friends.


I think most mom's and especially girl scout leaders want to make their girls strong and do whatever they can to help them achieve what they want.

Maybe with the day camps it is harder to do, but like some have posted it is a completely volunteer job and nothing can be perfect.

 

[sha_lyn]

sorry double post

 

[sha_lyn]

This varies from council to council (just like everything else about GS, it seems ) Our council's day camp is run by paid council staff. If leaders volunteer as aides, you get a discount for your daughter to attend the camp.
A week at day camp Monday to Friday costs $275. If you are in the horseback riding program it costs $375 for the week.

We get a deep discount (pay about 1/4 the fee) as volunteers. Is the day camp you are referring to at a GS owned/ran camp? Most of those do have paid employees. ETA: just reread the part about horseback riding, so my guess is that it is at an actual girl scout camp.

Our day camp is ran by the SU and is held at a private wilderness club/campground. No one from council works at the camp (while I guess they could volunteer, but it wouldn't be a paid position through the council). Speaking of it being a private camp, part of the agreement is that we have access (but not private access) for 2 days of training and open house. Most of us are there all day during the day that Sunday for setup, but the members are allowed on the property while we are setting up. Open house is several weeks before actual camp. The parents get a tour and orientation while the girls get to know their unit leaders and the girls in their unit.

Since my earache is keeping me up and the noise from the TV hurts, I've got nothing else to do but say a little more here LOL.....

I'm trying to recall the setup in the bathrooms at all the resident camps I have been at. Right now I can only recall 2 clearly.
One is the lodge that the troop rented for troop camping. The other is 2 different platform tent units at another camp. DD has attended resident camp there, and the troop has camped there in the fall.
In both situations there were a few shower stalls, with a bench and hooks across from the stalls. The girls would be able to shower privately, but the changing area is open to everyone in the shower area. I wish I had the resident camp literature from the parent packet, but what wasn't signed and turned in was thrown away a long time ago. I know they addressed modesty a bit and suggested that girls with "issues" shower in their bathing suits. They even said to save time, all girls would be asked to buddy up to shower in their suits. this was not mandatory. The girls did not have to buddy shower.

I do know that at the lodge troop camping the girls were sent into the bathroom to change in small groups. For some reason DD and the girl she was buddies with ran back into the main area in their underwear. One of the leaders pulled the girls aside and explained to them that they weren't suppose to run out in front of the leaders unless they were fully clothed.


I'm sorry if my opinion comes off as harsh. If I was in the OPs situation, I might be the one calling around too. However having worked with day camp for 2 summers and with the troop for 4 yrs, I am coming from a different prospective. Sure the first yr I volunteer for day camp I rolled my eyes at some of the rules, especially the no running anywhere other than the open field. However I quickly changed my mind the first time I saw a girl go face first down the gravel road that leads down to the office and lake. I don't make the rules, and while some of them I might not agree with at first, I can't think of a single rule that I disagree with after spending a week at day camp.

As I have said before our day camp is a bit unique because it is not held at a girl scout camp. We rent it for the one week a yr. For that week, members of the club are not allowed on the property from 8:30am until 3:30 (or maybe 4)PM. Twice this summer I was present when members came onto the property. One was the last AM. I had picked up a friend that AM and as we parked we noticed 2 women unloading several large dogs from 2 vans. My friend walked over and asked the women to leave. They refused and we had to get one of the camp directors up to the parking lot. the women had taken off on the walking trails by the time the director arrived. My friend and I both had to report to carpool duty so I don't know what happened. The other incident was when several men and kids came running onto the boat dock while my unit was canoing. I asked them to leave and they started in that they were members and had every right to be there. Just as I was about to explain, one of the male volunteers came up and asked them to leave. The didn't question him. Luckily it was about time for us to start carpool so the male volunteer was getting the boat ready for carpool.
The yr before the camp treasurer who also teaches canoing was threatened by some guys that came to kayak.

 

[allison443]

We get a deep discount (pay about 1/4 the fee) as volunteers. Is the day camp you are referring to at a GS owned/ran camp? Most of those do have paid employees. ETA: just reread the part about horseback riding, so my guess is that it is at an actual gir lscout camp.

The day camp is held at a camp owned by our council. All campers MUST be transported there by bus (there is no room for parents' cars to drop off). After all the campers arrive, the girls in the horseback riding program are taken by bus to a private riding stable about 25 minutes away for their daily session. They come back to the GS camp later to swim and do a craft or other camp activity.

Sha Lyn, hope you feel better!

 

[sha_lyn]

Thanks....

Interesting that during camp they go to a private stable. It is my understanding that the horseback riding rules are so strict that it is almost impossible for anything other than a GS camp to qualify. However it might just be that our council has more strict rules in place.
I do know that the SU day camp used to have an off site field trip before DD and I started attending. From my understanding, a few units would go each day (probably Tue-Thur as those are our usual activity days). I know there was some problem the last time they did the off site field trip. Now they bring in an activity in place of the off site field trip. LOL I can't even remember what it was this yr. Last yr is was a group from a wildlife sanctuary. The brought in several animals and did a demo the last day of camp.

 

[PatsGirl]

I haven't read all the posts but I did have one thought: Isn't it sad that we Americans are so embarrassed about our bodies that we don't feel comfortable changing our clothes in front of each other? I just wish we were more "European" in our thoughts about nudity.

I am a girl scout leader and try to accomodate the girls but sometimes its just like "hey, you have five minutes to be dressed, figure it out". I do the same thing with snacks/meals/chores when camping, etc. I give them what I think is reasonable time and they are expected to meet those expectations. If 8 out of 10 girls can do it, well...

I am modest myself and hate when I'm put in a position (some gyms) where I need to shower/change with others present but I deal with it. Like another poster here is often saying "prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child" -- they will have many occasions of being uncomfortable, unhappy, and disappointed, best they learn it early.

 

[aprilgail2]

I am modest myself and hate when I'm put in a position (some gyms) where I need to shower/change with others present but I deal with it. Like another poster here is often saying "prepare your child for the path, not the path for your child" -- they will have many occasions of being uncomfortable, unhappy, and disappointed, best they learn it early.

I hate changing in front of others, I have hated it since I was a kid so I can understand these kids feelings. I belong to a gym and I don't even go into the locker room area now because even though there are changing stalls there and the showers are in an area where the shower has an attached changing stall so you can do everything in there in private we still have women that just walk around in there naked- sorry but do you really have to stand there buck naked blow drying your hair, leaning over the sinks using the mirror naked to put on your makeup?? I can underrstand if you want to go back to your locker and put your clothes on there but otherwise you don't need to do hair and makeup until you put some clothes on-I don't care if you are fit or unfit, fat, skinny, black white etc- just put some clothes on!

 

[Par8hed]

Women..... such drama.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Thanks....

Interesting that during camp they go to a private stable. It is my understanding that the horseback riding rules are so strict that it is almost impossible for anything other than a GS camp to qualify. However it might just be that our council has more strict rules in place.

There are council approved sites that are for use here in Missouri.

 

[Pete's Mom]

I have a DS, not a DD, so my take on this situation might be way off . . .

But when he was 6-7 and starting camp, we had a discussion after the first week:

DS - Daddy, we have to change our bathing suits in a big room with my bunk and other bunks together.

DH - That's how it is at camp, dude.

DS - Oh, OK.

We have not heard another word about it in 4 years.

OP, is there a reason why you can't just adopt an "it is what it is" attitude to minimize your DD's focus on this issue? At her age, this could be her first exposure to the reality that the road will not always rise to meet her.

Jane

Boys are different. My son strips down to his boxers in gym class and when he changes to swim. It's not the same for girls, especially changing into a swimsuit.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

But they don't have to change in public, they just will not go to camp. Its simple you either deal with everything at camp- changing in public, hiking, eating camp food, bugs, ect... or you don't.

This is so insensitive. It's such a simple problem to solve. It's not like the OP is asking for money to spent to accomodate her daughter. By this logic, if someone was physically disabled and couldn't go hiking, they would be told not to attend? If they had food allergies, they would be forced to eat food they were allergic too? For some reason, I don't think that GSUSA would agree with you. And I think that if GSUSA was taken to court over forcing children to change in public, they would losing. (I'm not suggesting the OP do that. I'm just pointing out that you can't exclude someone from a camping program because they refuse to be naked in front of other people.)

Why were they "hell" for you? I have a heart condition and a huge surgery scar, I have had horrible acne as a teen and been over weight. So why would a dressing room be more hellish for you than any of the others? Yes its uncomfortable. That just how it is but you take a deep breath and get through it.

It was hellish for me because my parents beat the crap out of me on a regular basis and I was full of bruises in the places that my clothes typically covered. Is that a good enough reason for you?

I'm not sure why people have to justify their need for privacy with you. To me, it's none of your business. Whether you agree or not, people are allowed to refuse being nude in any public setting. It's a basic human right.

I think trying to go around the rules by constantly calling the camp director is not teaching her anything but if someone puts up enough of a fuss they will get what they want.[COLOR]

And the director mentioned having someone hold a towel for her and that wasn't good enough.

The OP wasn't constantly calling the camp director. She spoke to her one time. And the OP has solved the problem. She is sending her DD with a large t-shirt. That works for her. Why do you keep criticizing her? I feel like you haven't even read what she has written.

The thing is though the camp doesn't have an alternative and believe me if they did every girl would want to use it. It would be time consuming. I cannot think of one girl who would want to change publicly if they could change privately.

1. This camp does have an alternative that they refuse to let this girl use.

2. By the fact that you just said that every girl would prefer to change privately, you are agreeing that there's a problem here.

3. So what if it's time consuming? Build the possibility for extra time to change into the schedule.

I am modest myself and hate when I'm put in a position (some gyms) where I need to shower/change with others present but I deal with it.

I assume you aren't 7 years old.

 

[Par8hed]

It was hellish for me because my parents beat the crap out of me on a regular basis and I was full of bruises in the places that my clothes typically covered. Is that a good enough reason for you?

I'm sincerely sorry to read this....there's just no excuse.

But the ironic fact is that having a teacher/counselor etc. see your condition may have been the best thing that could happen to you.

In any case, I hope this is something you were somehow able to put behind you.

 

[mickeyboat]

Those ideas have been suggested. The OP did not like the towel idea. And isn't this a day camp with a director? Not a troop thing? And yes the OP paid for it but the rules shouldn't be changed for one child. The OP should have brought up any concerns before camp started instead of calling the director everyday.

-Becca-

Please feel free to actually read my posts. I contacted the director via email a month before the camp started with my concerns. I would have had plenty of time to prepare my child if she had addressed my concerns. I also listed several possible solutions which included DD wearing her suit underneath her clothes and keeping it on after swimming. None of those solutions required the camp to make unreasonable accomodations.

Since I got no response, I talked to the director briefly the day camp started. She was not interested in coming up with any solution whatsoever other than someone could hold a towel for her or she could opt out of swimming. To clarify the Council's policy, I made a call to Council.

Again - this is not a lakeside camp - it is being held at a fitness facility. I am well-acquainted with the facility, its lay-out and the way the camp is run. DDs attended this same day camp last summer. There are numerous changing areas already available which require no additional supervision, no additional funding, no additional anything besides a small amount of extra time alloted for changing. I also suggested DD cut her swimming time short to allow for time to change in a stall so that the schedule was not disrupted.

There is nothing wrong with DD's body image. She is a perfectly healthy and normal 7 year old with a developing sense of modesty and a right to privacy that I feel is worth protecting.

To update - DD did not swim yesterday. She actually enjoyed the activity she did while the others swam. I suggested the t-shirt idea, but she said that she was going to opt out again today. I sent her suit with some changing suggestions in case she changed her mind.

DD mentioned there were kids using the stalls. Apparently there are rules which cannot be bent to accomodate, but camp staff is not willing to enforce them.

The DD who did swim yesterday came back to the locker room to find all her and her buddy's clothes taken from their locker and was unable to find them. She had to wear her suit the rest of the day, had to search for her glasses (which she found on another child's face). Once she did find her clothes, the camp staff refused to let her go change back into them. I don't think she is going to swim today, either.

 

[Geoff_M]

This is so insensitive. It's such a simple problem to solve. It's not like the OP is asking for money to spent to accomodate her daughter. By this logic, if someone was physically disabled and couldn't go hiking, they would be told not to attend? If they had food allergies, they would be forced to eat food they were allergic too? For some reason, I don't think that GSUSA would agree with you. And I think that if GSUSA was taken to court over forcing children to change in public, they would losing. (I'm not suggesting the OP do that. I'm just pointing out that you can't exclude someone from a camping program because they refuse to be naked in front of other people.)

Actually, I think you can.... The examples you cite are due to physical issues that the youth has no control over. Refusing to change in front of other girls is a choice. I doubt our court system would likely define an uncomfortability as a protected "disability" under our laws. I also think you're stretching the definition of "public" a bit too far.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

I'm sincerely sorry to read this....there's just no excuse.

But the ironic fact is that having a teacher/counselor etc. see your condition may have been the best thing that could happen to you.

In any case, I hope this is something you were somehow able to put behind you.

Thank you so much. It has been a long process to get over. However, changing in a public locker room and having other people see my bruises wouldn't have made anything better for me. Trust me.

DD mentioned there were kids using the stalls. Apparently there are rules which cannot be bent to accomodate, but camp staff is not willing to enforce them.

There you go. So that proves that point. It actually doesn't take more time to let people who are uncomfortable changing in public change in private.

Actually, I think you can.... The examples you cite are due to physical issues that the youth has no control over. Refusing to change in front of other girls is a choice. I doubt our court system would likely define an uncomfortability as a protected "disability" under our laws. I also think you're stretching the definition of "public" a bit too far.

I think you completely misunderstood my post. I was responding to a poster who said that if you can't change in public or hike or eat camp food that you shouldn't be allowed to go to camp. I wasn't saying that changing in public is a physical disability or that a court would find it as such. For many young girls, it is a psychological issue though but that wasn't the point I was making either. Quite simply, according to universal human rights children are allowed to have privacy when nude. Even in juvenile hall, kids aren't forced to change in front of one another. They can have privacy if they so choose.

A public locker room is most definitely a public place. I don't think too many people here are disagreeing with that.