Girl on plane not able to use bathroom

[sonofanarchy]

http://news.yahoo.com/flight-attend...ate-seat-030606938.html?bcmt=comments-postbox

Of course, the plane sitting on the tarmac again was JetBlue. I don't know if they just have bad luck, but every story I read about a plane being stuck on a tarmac, it seems to be them.

I can see both sides of this story, but what I am absolutely fed up with the constant delays and ineptness of air traffic control. There are certain things we can do nothing about (weather, security, plane problems). However, I don't understand how a plane is allowed to board, pull away from the gate, but then gets stuck in "traffic" on the tarmac. This is nothing more than a screw-up by ATC somewhere along the line.

As for delays, I've said this for years - We pay A LOT of money to fly. Airlines need to start keeping extra planes at the larger airports in case of delays due to bad weather in other parts of the country. There is no reason why a flight coming from Seattle to Orlando delayed due to weather should delay a flight going from Orlando to Boston. One delay, and it's a domino effect.

 

[sam_gordon]

http://news.yahoo.com/flight-attend...ate-seat-030606938.html?bcmt=comments-postbox

Of course, the plane sitting on the tarmac again was JetBlue. I don't know if they just have bad luck, but every story I read about a plane being stuck on a tarmac, it seems to be them.

I can see both sides of this story, but what I am absolutely fed up with the constant delays and ineptness of air traffic control. There are certain things we can do nothing about (weather, security, plane problems). However, I don't understand how a plane is allowed to board, pull away from the gate, but then gets stuck in "traffic" on the tarmac. This is nothing more than a screw-up by ATC somewhere along the line.

As for delays, I've said this for years - We pay A LOT of money to fly. Airlines need to start keeping extra planes at the larger airports in case of delays due to bad weather in other parts of the country. There is no reason why a flight coming from Seattle to Orlando delayed due to weather should delay a flight going from Orlando to Boston. One delay, and it's a domino effect.

I don't see how you blame JetBlue AND ATC for delays in this case. I'm guessing it's more a case of JFK being a busy airport with lots of traffic. There's no indication of a weather or mechanical delay impacting this story. And, if you cut down on the number of flights, airline prices will skyrocket even more than they have (supply & demand).

Having other planes on hand wouldn't necessarily help as you may not have crews to fly them (because the crews are with the plane that's delayed).

As far as the linked story, FAA rules require everyone to be in their seats during taxiing. The mother should have notified the FA before trying to get up.

When our DD had transitioned to underwear, the same thing happened. We were taxiing and DD said she had to go NOW. The FA was sitting behind us, I told her, said DD couldn't "hold it", the FA notified the pilot, and she allowed DD to go to the bathroom.

 

[OceanAnnie]

http://news.yahoo.com/flight-attend...ate-seat-030606938.html?bcmt=comments-postbox

Of course, the plane sitting on the tarmac again was JetBlue. I don't know if they just have bad luck, but every story I read about a plane being stuck on a tarmac, it seems to be them.

I can see both sides of this story, but what I am absolutely fed up with the constant delays and ineptness of air traffic control. There are certain things we can do nothing about (weather, security, plane problems). However, I don't understand how a plane is allowed to board, pull away from the gate, but then gets stuck in "traffic" on the tarmac. This is nothing more than a screw-up by ATC somewhere along the line.

As for delays, I've said this for years - We pay A LOT of money to fly. Airlines need to start keeping extra planes at the larger airports in case of delays due to bad weather in other parts of the country. There is no reason why a flight coming from Seattle to Orlando delayed due to weather should delay a flight going from Orlando to Boston. One delay, and it's a domino effect.

I read about that. What horrible treatment of that family.

I don't see how you blame JetBlue AND ATC for delays in this case. I'm guessing it's more a case of JFK being a busy airport with lots of traffic. There's no indication of a weather or mechanical delay impacting this story. And, if you cut down on the number of flights, airline prices will skyrocket even more than they have (supply & demand).

Having other planes on hand wouldn't necessarily help as you may not have crews to fly them (because the crews are with the plane that's delayed).

As far as the linked story, FAA rules require everyone to be in their seats during taxiing. The mother should have notified the FA before trying to get up.

When our DD had transitioned to underwear, the same thing happened. We were taxiing and DD said she had to go NOW. The FA was sitting behind us, I told her, said DD couldn't "hold it", the FA notified the pilot, and she allowed DD to go to the bathroom.

IMO, if they can allow a child to go to the restroom they should.

 

[Jex]

Not quite the same, but I had a connecting flight years ago that I barely made due to my previous flight running behind. Needless tp say I didn't have time to use the restroom before I boarded the second flight, but really needed to, however I Figuered I could wait until take off and as much as I hate plane bathrooms being a guy makes it bearable. Of course once seated and we were going to the runway they stated the bathroom was put of order. That was a great flight!

 

[EMode]

Her being out of her seat could have delayed the flight even more and therefore delaying all the flights stuck behind them, they won't be able to taxi if there are passengers out of their seats, so I can see Jet Blue's side. I think taking them to security over it is a bit much.

I'm not blaming the parent here, but I think those with small children should prepare for things like this. Put your kid in pull-ups just in case, you never know if its your flight that will get stuck and you never know if you'll get an ornery flight attendant.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I read yesterday in an update to the story, that Jet Blue has apologized and given the family a $50 GC and will donate $5000 to the charity of their choice.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/06/...-to-newton-mother-for-mistreatment-on-flight/

ETA now I see subsequent updates say she got a full refund, not $50 as originally reported.

http://m.wcvb.com/news/jetblue-apologizes-after-not-letting-child-use-bathroom/26495170

 

[sonofanarchy]

I don't see how you blame JetBlue AND ATC for delays in this case. I'm guessing it's more a case of JFK being a busy airport with lots of traffic. There's no indication of a weather or mechanical delay impacting this story. And, if you cut down on the number of flights, airline prices will skyrocket even more than they have (supply & demand).

Having other planes on hand wouldn't necessarily help as you may not have crews to fly them (because the crews are with the plane that's delayed).

As far as the linked story, FAA rules require everyone to be in their seats during taxiing. The mother should have notified the FA before trying to get up.

When our DD had transitioned to underwear, the same thing happened. We were taxiing and DD said she had to go NOW. The FA was sitting behind us, I told her, said DD couldn't "hold it", the FA notified the pilot, and she allowed DD to go to the bathroom.

I'm not blaming JetBlue. It just seems that whenever I read about one of these tarmac stories, it's always them.

I am blaming ATC. Traffic in cars can not be controlled. Traffic with airplanes can (and must). That is the job of ATC. I don't see how, if they are doing their job properly, they can allow a plane to leave the gate if the plane won't be allowed to take off. Shouldn't make a difference how busy the airport is. Staff accordingly. As for weather or mechanical delays not being part of the problem, that is exactly my point. I was just stating that if weather was part of the problem, at least they'd have some sort of excuse for the delay, though I don't understand with all the equipment they have nowadays, a storm could just sneak up out of the blue on them like that.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Her being out of her seat could have delayed the flight even more and therefore delaying all the flights stuck behind them, they won't be able to taxi if there are passengers out of their seats, so I can see Jet Blue's side. I think taking them to security over it is a bit much.

I'm not blaming the parent here, but I think those with small children should prepare for things like this. Put your kid in pull-ups just in case, you never know if its your flight that will get stuck and you never know if you'll get an ornery flight attendant.

I thought so too.

 

[Tozzie]

I'm not blaming JetBlue. It just seems that whenever I read about one of these tarmac stories, it's always them.

I am blaming ATC. Traffic in cars can not be controlled. Traffic with airplanes can (and must). That is the job of ATC. I don't see how, if they are doing their job properly, they can allow a plane to leave the gate if the plane won't be allowed to take off. Shouldn't make a difference how busy the airport is. Staff accordingly. As for weather or mechanical delays not being part of the problem, that is exactly my point. I was just stating that if weather was part of the problem, at least they'd have some sort of excuse for the delay, though I don't understand with all the equipment they have nowadays, a storm could just sneak up out of the blue on them like that.

Don't blame Air Traffic Control, it isn't their fault either it just is what it is.

Each airport has a finite number of gates where planes can park. They must board the plane and get them out of the gate because another plane will need that spot.

Take for example the flight I was on 2 months ago that was delayed, we were on the tarmac waiting to take off when the Pilot came on the loud speaker and told us we had to wait , a storm was going through Orlando and there were tornado warnings, MCO was closed, that is beyond the control of ATC.

Also take into account areas such as NYC there are 3 major airports and several smaller ones sharing the same air space. Delays can be caused by many factors, including where flights are comming from and how much fuel they have, for example a flight comming from a long distance is already in the air, then the weather strikes and causes delays, now they have these incomming flights, well ATC now has to hold flights at their origin because they won't have room for them to land.

It is life and while some of these delays are within control many of them aren't

 

[diznygirl]

I understand that sometimes it's out of anyone's control. But most of the time there are known delays, but getting the plane in line to be next is the focus. It doesn't have to be. My friend just had a two hour delay, but they didn't board the plane. Everyone was able to wait comfortably in the terminal. Why can't this be done more often?

This is one of the reasons I hate air travel.

 

[EMode]

In case anyone wanted some more facts, click on the CBS link in the OP's link. I was curious how old the child was and how long the plane was sitting there before the accident. It has that info in it.
I had assumed a really long time but it turns out it was about a half an hour. I know to a 3 year old a half hour of having to go to the bathroom is an eternity though.

ETA I wanted to mention that we have had some not so great weather in the NE the past week, so its possible the delay was due to that.

 

[sam_gordon]

I am blaming ATC. Traffic in cars can not be controlled. Traffic with airplanes can (and must). That is the job of ATC. I don't see how, if they are doing their job properly, they can allow a plane to leave the gate if the plane won't be allowed to take off. Shouldn't make a difference how busy the airport is. Staff accordingly. As for weather or mechanical delays not being part of the problem, that is exactly my point. I was just stating that if weather was part of the problem, at least they'd have some sort of excuse for the delay, though I don't understand with all the equipment they have nowadays, a storm could just sneak up out of the blue on them like that.

I understand that sometimes it's out of anyone's control. But most of the time there are known delays, but getting the plane in line to be next is the focus. It doesn't have to be. My friend just had a two hour delay, but they didn't board the plane. Everyone was able to wait comfortably in the terminal. Why can't this be done more often?

This is one of the reasons I hate air travel.

Let's think logically. Runways will support 'x' number of takeoffs/landings. However, the airports have 'y' number of gates. Sending planes away from the gates to wait in line for take off is no different than someone waiting in line at McDonalds to order their food. Should McDonalds not let anyone in the door until they're ready to order? It's the same with air travel. The amount of planes waiting/needing to take off (especially at a busy airport like JFK) greatly outnumbers the runways. In order to equalize the numbers, you either need to add runways (which probably isn't possible) or reduce the number of planes. If you reduce the number of planes, then the price of airfare goes up even more (supply & demand).

I'm not talking about a storm coming in and closing the airport. I'm just talking normal traffic flow at a major airport.

 

[Mom21]

I understand that sometimes it's out of anyone's control. But most of the time there are known delays, but getting the plane in line to be next is the focus. It doesn't have to be. My friend just had a two hour delay, but they didn't board the plane. Everyone was able to wait comfortably in the terminal. Why can't this be done more often?

This is one of the reasons I hate air travel.

It isn't done more often because airlines schedule flights in close order. Likely where she was taking off from had no more airplanes coming in during that time that needed that gate. When a plane comes in, it can't exactly hold on the landing runway as the planes behind would run them over. They need to go somewhere so the airlines want their gates cleared. Easier to taxi and hold on the departure runway. No one runs them over there.

Ex ATC here. I didn't work at the airport, but I worked enroute (that means after takeoff to altitude and getting them down from altitude to turn them over to approach control to land them. There's just so much airport space. When you run out then it moves out to holding them at higher altitudes. 2 planes can't occupy same gate at same time. Priority is landing, not takeoff.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I'm not blaming JetBlue. It just seems that whenever I read about one of these tarmac stories, it's always them.

I am blaming ATC. Traffic in cars can not be controlled. Traffic with airplanes can (and must). That is the job of ATC. I don't see how, if they are doing their job properly, they can allow a plane to leave the gate if the plane won't be allowed to take off. Shouldn't make a difference how busy the airport is. Staff accordingly. As for weather or mechanical delays not being part of the problem, that is exactly my point. I was just stating that if weather was part of the problem, at least they'd have some sort of excuse for the delay, though I don't understand with all the equipment they have nowadays, a storm could just sneak up out of the blue on them like that.

Maybe other airlines' passengers comply with the "seatbelt" light and don't try to get up when their flight is delayed on the tarmac.

Air Traffic Control requires extremely precise and complicated choreography. Not allowing planes to leave the gate until it's that plane's turn to take off would so severely restrict the number of flights able to take off each day it would be ridiculous. Air travel would nearly come to a halt. It's got zero to do with staffing (unless you're now claiming this is all the fault of the government, because that's the entity which employs the ATCs) and everything to do with airport/airspace capacity.

JetBlue was in the news recently when one of their planes was hit on the ground by a Southwest plane. Are you going to blame that on jetBlue too?

 

[robinb]

The problem with allowing the little girl to use the bathroom is that we have no idea where the plane was in line to take off. If they were near the front of the line they really can't have passengers up and moving around. In sam_gordon's case I suspect the plane was back far enough that the pilot made an exception. We don't know if they could have made an exception in the case of the little girl or not. In any case, potty accidents are common in 3-year olds. I feel sorry for the girl and her parents but I think they made too much of a stink about it running to the media with their story looking to cash in.

As for telling her she that she would be handed over to security, she was told she was not allowed to stand up to bring her DD to the bathroom so why did she think she could stand up to clean up? I know it must to have uncomfortable for everyone but it isn't her place to tell the FA when she is going to sit down. She *was* a non-compliant passenger.

 

[Ceila]

I think it was irresponsible of the parents to not have a pull-up with them. What if the plane ride had turbulence when the child had to go but wasn't allowed to go to the bathroom right away? We always traveled with pull-ups when our kids were still in the can't-hold-it-very-long stage .

I also wonder exactly how the mom acted to get threatened to be kicked off. I'm guessing that there is more to the story.

 

[Skippy918]

I also have a newly potty trained 3 year old and we're flying next month. After reading this, I plan to put her back in pull-ups or a diaper for the flight.

 

[sonofanarchy]

Maybe other airlines' passengers comply with the "seatbelt" light and don't try to get up when their flight is delayed on the tarmac.

Air Traffic Control requires extremely precise and complicated choreography. Not allowing planes to leave the gate until it's that plane's turn to take off would so severely restrict the number of flights able to take off each day it would be ridiculous. Air travel would nearly come to a halt. It's got zero to do with staffing (unless you're now claiming this is all the fault of the government, because that's the entity which employs the ATCs) and everything to do with airport/airspace capacity.

JetBlue was in the news recently when one of their planes was hit on the ground by a Southwest plane. Are you going to blame that on jetBlue too?

OK, I'll say it again for the 2nd time - I am not blaming JetBlue. My original post wasn't intended to blame them for the tarmac parking. If they are to blame for the child not being able to use the bathroom, I don't know, since I don't know for sure what the regulations are.

There's a big difference between allowing a plane to leave the terminal when it's time to leave has arrived and having to sit still on the tarmac for 30 minutes.

I've been flying for years and have only noticed these tarmac parking issues over the past 5 or 6 years.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I don't "blame JetBlue" as an entity. I think it sounds like poor customer service to threaten to call security over a mother of a three year old with a potty issue.

 

[robinb]

OK, I'll say it again for the 2nd time - I am not blaming JetBlue. My original post wasn't intended to blame them for the tarmac parking. If they are to blame for the child not being able to use the bathroom, I don't know, since I don't know for sure what the regulations are.

There's a big difference between allowing a plane to leave the terminal when it's time to leave has arrived and having to sit still on the tarmac for 30 minutes.

I've been flying for years and have only noticed these tarmac parking issues over the past 5 or 6 years.

It would be nice if it worked that way, but the departing plane needs to leave the gate so an arriving plane can take its place. Someone needs to sit on the tarmac and the departing plane pulls the short straw. Now, there have been some times (like when there is a "ground stop" in the destination airport) where we did not get on the plane but waited at the gate instead. However that wouldn't work in this case. If every departing flight waited at the gate until the departure congestion eased up there would be no open gates for arriving planes!