Gifted classes/school --- why the overwhelming demand?

[ccgirl]

I'm so confused!!!

I see G&T mentioned. Then, AP, honors etc. I would not consider AP and Honors gifted and talented. Heck, I was in many AP and Honors classes and no way was I gifted and talented. So, I googled it and I am surprised by the defintion. Turns out if I were in other schools I would have been G&T by today's standards. But, because my school offered AP & Honors classes I was not. Thanks to the NCLB, looks like the definition really encompasses a lot of students who are not gifted and talented per se, but who go to schools where advanced classes are not ordinarily provided by their schools. Perhaps schools label students as G&T to get the funds to offer these classes? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see any mention of IQ in this definition. Maybe that's why there is so much confusion; there is no clear cut definition??

The Federal Definition of Gifted and Talented in NCLB (US) The term “gifted and talented”, when used with respect to students, children, or youth, means students, children, or youth who give evidence of high achievement capability in areas such as intellectual, creative, artistic, or leadership capacity, or in specific academic fields, and who need services or activities not ordinarily provided by the school in order to fully develop those capabilities.(Title IX, Part A, Section 9101(22), p. 544)

Note: States and districts are not required to use the federal definition, although many states base their definitions on the federal definition.

Programs for gifted and talented students exist in every state and in many school districts, but the number and percentage of students identified as gifted and talented vary from state to state due to differences in state laws and local practices.

I then researched further and if you google "gifted and talented by state" you will see it varies greatly state to state. In MA, for example, there is no state definition and they are not required to provide any thing extra for G&T.

 

[Anne34]

honestly I wish we had a gifted and talented school around here. my eldest is in 3rd grade and is very advanced. sadly, all the advanced pull-out programs for kids younger than 4th got cut last year, so we were doing our best to supplement at home and holding our breath till 4th grade when he can finally be challenged again. ahhh...but now we have heard they are cutting 4th grade's gifted and talented program for next year. lovely.

my son is not at risk for dropping out. he is young and loves school still. but he is bored out of his mind when it comes to math in particular. I don't blame him. imagine sitting in class day after day while the teacher goes over stuff you can do in your sleep. she has tried to challenge him, but its hard to single him out and the closest students to his abilities in his class are still well behind where he is. Sometimes I feel like a parent who is failing him because I can't afford to send him to private school and we can't afford to move to a different district at this time. Am hoping I can change something for him in the not-too-distant future, because I would hate for him to grow so bored as to start hating school.

This sounds like my son too. He is in G & T program and they ended up bumping him up 2 years in math in junior high (Thank God!) He is also in honors in most classes now in high school. School for him just got boring - the slow pace of the regular class made him start to hate school.

G & T here is not for "at risk" kids -- that is a totally different program altogether.

 

[Anne34]

So, in your son's school what distinguishes him as G&T? I am genuinely curious as we don't have a G&T program per se. But, in 1st grade the whole class was doing multiplications in their head and reading chapter books. It never dawned on me that my DD could be "gifted" since she was doing the same things her class was doing.

As far as the no reading...that it boloney! At my DD's school they are always allowed to read quitely if they finish early. They have to keep 2 chapter books in the desks at all times for such occasions. That would really bother me too.

At our school in order to join the gifted classes (which don't start until 3rd grade) you need to be above the 95% LOCALLY in all sections for your Iowa tests (or state tests) and have all A's in your classes. They also have all your test scores from the past couple years and the teachers nominate the kids for the program. There really aren't that many of them in each grade at our school.

Every school does it differently, so you need to check with your district how they are admitted.

 

[ccgirl]

At our school in order to join the gifted classes (which don't start until 3rd grade) you need to be above the 95% LOCALLY in all sections for your Iowa tests (or state tests) and have all A's in your classes. They also have all your test scores from the past couple years and the teachers nominate the kids for the program. There really aren't that many of them in each grade at our school.

Every school does it differently, so you need to check with your district how they are admitted.

Interesting. I'm not comparing at all but, find it quite interesting just how vastly different education is handled state to state. My DD scored above 95% nationally (she took the 2nd grade IOWA's this year)and got 2 A+'s, 2A's and 1 B all on her report card last semester but there is still no mention of G&T. We just don't have that here in MA that I know of. I wouldn't consider her G&T either. Smart, sure, but G&T no.

I think that is where the "debate" lies. Looks like some students are being labelled as G&T when they are among the smartest in their classes (not necessariliy G&T)but that can vary school to school, district to district etc. I really didn't even know this G&T thing was so widely accessible. I always thought of G&T as the 9th graders who got into Harvard. Obviously, I had a warped view of G&T.

 

[I Love Pluto]

My humble opinion (as a retired teacher)...

There is so much trouble in all of our schools with poor behavior interfering with learning. Classroom disruptions are "normal" in some areas. If you are the average kid, it becomes annoying that some students won't settle down and be quiet so that others can learn.

I think kids have expressed these feelings to their parents. The parents (and students) want their child to be in a class of kids who WANT to learn, and who do not have behavioral issues.

What better place is there for learning than in a G&T classroom?

 

[mamacatnv]

My humble opinion (as a retired teacher)...

There is so much trouble in all of our schools with poor behavior interfering with learning. Classroom disruptions are "normal" in some areas. If you are the average kid, it becomes annoying that some students won't settle down and be quiet so that others can learn.

I think kids have expressed these feelings to their parents. The parents (and students) want their child to be in a class of kids who WANT to learn, and who do not have behavioral issues.

What better place is there for learning than in a G&T classroom?

The changes our society has demanded of the school system has resulted in this exact issue. So sure, parents and kids want to be in an environment where they are challenged, where there are not a bunch of distractions and where there is not a class full of kids with a teacher who is doing everything in their power to bring the low kids up to the average bar.

 

[Leajess99]

We had a big push a few years back for more "collaborative" learning at the younger levels, and now we're seeing it morph into something bizarre, where they're just copying EVERYTHING. Blatant plagiarism in honors papers. Copying and pasting Wikipedia articles. It's becoming more blatant among the upper level classes (honors, AP etc.). Thing is, the kids will tell you "but it's done!" like that's the goal.

But at the same time you have plagiarism in regular classes as well. It has been happening for as long as I have been in school and colleges still have issues with it. Cheating has nothing to do with a child's intellect. It has to do with them finding the easiest way out and NOT caring.

 

[Leajess99]

No Im not making a blanket statement My point was many people misconstrue "gifted" laziness. It is common for gifted kids to have another issue. Its not even uncommon. I believe that it is this issue people pick up on an "lable" a general pop.

Since I have gotten here (DIS Boards) and participated in this topic, Ive received personal attacks, condescension, and overall general rude treatment for standing up for Gifted Children and the Ostracizing (is that a word) that the kids and parents typically receive.

You m'am, are the exception to forum posting population. Thank you for your kindness.

Had it not been for you and your postings on this thread I would still be lost about the Twice gifted. I never knew about that and thanks to you I have since found information and will be researching better ways to help my child.

 

[disneysplash]

My DD9 is not in a GT program. She did score in the 99th percentile in several areas on the Terranova: math, reading vocabulary, she also scored a 471 out of 480 on the NECAP. I assumed she was not placed in th GT program, as it was for the truely gifted and she had missed the cut. After the school year started, she tells me that about a third of her class leave her class to go to GT for language arts and math. I called the school to inquired how so many student had qualified for the GT program and was told the program was open to ANY student, and most of them were in the GT program by parent request. So, at least in our school, I would not say that it is a program for the gifted.

 

[mickeyboat]

My DD has struggled this year because of the behavior problems and distractions in her classroom. She is a fantastic student, but not really gifted as far as I am concerned. But I will be pushing her to get into the "advanced" group next year so that she has an opportunity to learn instead of babysitting the two pain in the rear kids sitting on either side of her every day.

 

[mamacatnv]

My DD has struggled this year because of the behavior problems and distractions in her classroom. She is a fantastic student, but not really gifted as far as I am concerned. But I will be pushing her to get into the "advanced" group next year so that she has an opportunity to learn instead of babysitting the two pain in the rear kids sitting on either side of her every day.

don't blame you one bit. We ran into that when DD was in 3rd grade, there was a monstrous fit throwing, aggressive, acting out kid in her class. It was all the teacher could do to keep him in line, let alone then try and teach. It was a miserable year for the rest of the class and the teacher.
We encountered the same issue in kindergarten but thankfully DD was in a private K and the beast childs behavior was not tolerated for long and he was expelled from the program.

 

[ccgirl]

don't blame you one bit. We ran into that when DD was in 3rd grade, there was a monstrous fit throwing, aggressive, acting out kid in her class. It was all the teacher could do to keep him in line, let alone then try and teach. It was a miserable year for the rest of the class and the teacher.
We encountered the same issue in kindergarten but thankfully DD was in a private K and the beast childs behavior was not tolerated for long and he was expelled from the program.

Bolding is a big reason why we send our DD to private school and will continue to do so. I think the public schools have had a lot of their control taken away. It's too bad because the education our public school provides in my area is great. I think the teacher's are wonderful too. However, the environment is not so wonderful. Students are continuously disruptive. The teacher's can only do so much so the right of that student to an education is at the disservice of others IMHO.