Gifted classes/school --- why the overwhelming demand?

[NY Disney fan]

I have always believed that G&T classes/ schools were for "at risk" kids who are intellectually gifted but would not be served by a regular school due to the slower or more average pace of schooling. Would this be a fair assumption? If so, why are parents clamoring like crabs in a barrel to get their kid in a gifted school? There has GOT to be a legitimate reason.

Is it because these schools give the kids a leg up? Is is because they have better (fill in the blank)? This isn't about G&T...it is about something else. It appears that G&T is being manufactured in kids so they could get in but why?? Can someone please opine? Thanks!!

 

[brockash]

I have always believed that G&T classes/ schools were for "at risk" kids who are intellectually gifted but would not be served by a regular school due to the slower or more average pace of schooling. Would this be a fair assumption? If so, why are parents clamoring like crabs in a barrel to get their kid in a gifted school? There has GOT to be a legitimate reason.

Is it because these schools give the kids a leg up? Is is because they have better (fill in the blank)? This isn't about G&T...it is about something else. It appears that G&T is being manufactured in kids so they could get in but why?? Can someone please opine? Thanks!!

I've never been to a school where their gifted/talented program was for "at risk" kids. Everywhere I've ever seen it, the classes have been to challenge well above average students (no matter if they qualify for "at risk" or not.) In my sons school, the gifted/talented classes don't have many (if any) "at risk" students in the program. -Not because they're "at risk," but generally if a child is already an "at risk" child, then most likely their home life doesn't give them a very good chance of making it into the gifted/talented program anyways.

 

[stepmommyof1]

Everyone wants to feel like their child is more special than "regular" children.

 

[NY Disney fan]

When I mean "at risk" I am talking about kids who are not served by their current school and who are at risk of dropping out. This would include G&T kids. That is the whole reason of recognizing them and testing them EARLY.

 

[SaraJayne]

When I mean "at risk" I am talking about kids who are not served by their current school and who are at risk of dropping out. This would include G&T kids. That is the whole reason of recognizing them and testing them EARLY.

Nope, not here. TAG kids are those that are above their peers in academics...either just above grade level or exceptional.

"At risk" kids are not involved in TAG (our G&T program) in any way here.

No, my children are not part of the TAG program.

 

[NY Disney fan]

Nope, not here. TAG kids are those that are above their peers in academics...either just above grade level or exceptional.

"At risk" kids are not involved in TAG (our G&T program) in any way here.

But put them in a regular setting and see if they would be. But that is not the gist of this thread...just wanting to know about the overhhelming demand of the classes/programs.

 

[brockash]

When I mean "at risk" I am talking about kids who are not served by their current school and who are at risk of dropping out. This would include G&T kids. That is the whole reason of recognizing them and testing them EARLY.

Maybe in some places, but that's not how it is at my ds's school, or what it was for when I was in school. I know most of the kids in the program at my sons school (he isn't one of them,) and none of them are at risk for dropping out. They're in the program to challenge them in ways, that most kids their age, wouldn't understand. We're good friends with the families of 2 of them, and they have very stable lives, and I have no doubt both of them will graduate high school, most likely with honors, and go on to college and to do great things (no risk for the kids in the program at our school.)

 

[mtemm]

honestly I wish we had a gifted and talented school around here. my eldest is in 3rd grade and is very advanced. sadly, all the advanced pull-out programs for kids younger than 4th got cut last year, so we were doing our best to supplement at home and holding our breath till 4th grade when he can finally be challenged again. ahhh...but now we have heard they are cutting 4th grade's gifted and talented program for next year. lovely.

my son is not at risk for dropping out. he is young and loves school still. but he is bored out of his mind when it comes to math in particular. I don't blame him. imagine sitting in class day after day while the teacher goes over stuff you can do in your sleep. she has tried to challenge him, but its hard to single him out and the closest students to his abilities in his class are still well behind where he is. Sometimes I feel like a parent who is failing him because I can't afford to send him to private school and we can't afford to move to a different district at this time. Am hoping I can change something for him in the not-too-distant future, because I would hate for him to grow so bored as to start hating school.

 

[Scurvy]

I can't speak for all areas, but in the schools I've been involved with the regular classes consist of a mix of kids of all different ability levels, and the lessons and assignments are mostly aimed at the average or slightly below average students. This wasn't the case years ago, when kids tended to be grouped more by ability and the different groups were taught at different levels, and some of them covered more advanced material than others. The Gifted and Talented program provides a way to challenge the above average students. Those students are pulled out of class for additional instruction and assignments which are usually more difficult than those which are assigned in their regular class. They have to do all the work that is assigned in the normal class as well as in their G&T class. They also get to do more advanced activities than those they do in the normal class. This gives these students the opportunity to be challenged and to have to actually work rather than sailing through the normal assignments and spending lots of time bored out of their skulls while the teacher is going over (and over) information for the other students that the G&T kids have already mastered.

 

[Poohforyou]

When I mean "at risk" I am talking about kids who are not served by their current school and who are at risk of dropping out. This would include G&T kids. That is the whole reason of recognizing them and testing them EARLY.

There is a whole spectrum of advanced kids just like there is a spectrum of average and learning challenged kids. I guess you could make a case for the kids at the very top of the advanced spectrum not being served by their current school. For the majority though it's more about just needing to go at a faster pace or delving more into a subject.

My DD has been in advanced level classes since 3rd grade. Our district pulls kids out for different levels of instruction not covered by the regular classroom teacher. This year she's taking 7th grade math in 6th grade and next year will take honors english along with 8th grade math. She is bright and both math and english come easily for her but I really wouldn't classify her as gifted. She's also adopted so DH and I can't take credit for her ability. By being at an accelerated pace she'll have more options for honors classes and other electives in HS.

 

[5lilfish]

This may very well be one of those cases where putting something in writing makes it easy to misinterpret the feelings behind the words. It seems to me that your post has a bit of a tone to it. Maybe it isn't meant to though... I guess I read "There has GOT to be a legitimate reason," as you not buying into gifted programming and needing to be convinced that parents of gifted kids are not full of crap. Then again, I am sure I am a bit over sensitive and defensive because I have had to explain myself before. For the record...I have 1 gifted child, (that went to gifted programming in a normal elementary school but has been fine in 'normal' accelerated classes in middle school). As smart as he is, his grades are 'only' low honor roll....he doesn't really care about doing better than that. I also have 2 normally bright middle schoolers and 2 preschoolers (also seem to be normal bright)...so it is not like I am out there to get all of my kids labelled as gifted.


I would say that most parents want to find the best education for their kids. If their child can work at a certain level, it is probably best to put them at that level. I've always felt that gifted kids were just as much 'special needs' as kids with academic difficulties, and those needs should be addressed just as you would address the needs of a child that is struggling. Trust me...gifted (hate that word) kids are not easy to raise/teach. There are many harmful things that can come from keeping a bright/gifted/advanced kid in a class that is well below the level they are at. Kids get bored, misbehave, don't learn the study skills to use when the material does become harder, have trouble finding a true peer group (social issues), develop a dislike of school, etc. Some gifted kids would be fine and others wouldn't...it is up to the parents and school to figure out which kids fall into which category, I guess. I do cringe when I hear that gifted progamming is on a budget chop list because, as I said, I think gifted kids have special needs.

Jess

 

[5lilfish]

Everyone wants to feel like their child is more special than "regular" children.

This is why I am a bit oversensitive about the subject sometimes. If that is the case then why do I have 4 normally bright kids and 1 gifted (accelerate/very bright) child?

Jess

 

[SaraJayne]

So am I right in guessing you want *your* child to attend a Gifted and Talented school, but there is no availability for your child, due to all the "at risk" kids?

 

[NY Disney fan]

I would say that most parents want to find the best education for their kids. If their child can work at a certain level, it is probably best to put them at that level. I've always felt that gifted kids were just as much 'special needs' as kids with academic difficulties, and those needs should be addressed just as you would address the needs of a child that is struggling. Trust me...gifted (hate that word) kids are not easy to raise/teach. There are many harmful things that can come from keeping a bright/gifted/advanced kid in a class that is well below the level they are at. Kids get bored, misbehave, don't learn the study skills to use when the material does become harder, have trouble finding a true peer group (social issues), develop a dislike of school, etc. Some gifted kids would be fine and others wouldn't...it is up to the parents and school to figure out which kids fall into which category, I guess. I do cringe when I hear that gifted progamming is on a budget chop list because, as I said, I think gifted kids have special needs.

Jess

Thank you, thank you thank you for writing this! This is what I was trying to get at. Gifted kids are special (in the best sense of the word) and they come with many issues. But I know what you are trying to say...maybe the parents of all kids want the best education and this is how they feel they can get it. Why can't G&T just be for G&T kids...why does it have to be democratized?

 

[ccgirl]

I have always believed that G&T classes/ schools were for "at risk" kids who are intellectually gifted but would not be served by a regular school due to the slower or more average pace of schooling. Would this be a fair assumption? If so, why are parents clamoring like crabs in a barrel to get their kid in a gifted school? There has GOT to be a legitimate reason.

Is it because these schools give the kids a leg up? Is is because they have better (fill in the blank)? This isn't about G&T...it is about something else. It appears that G&T is being manufactured in kids so they could get in but why?? Can someone please opine? Thanks!!

This is part of the reason I send my DD to a private school. Most of her friends go to the public school and she is at least a grade level above them. Tried sending her to math and science camp run by the public schools this summer and the teachers weren't sure what to do with her (their words) because she was so much above them. I would not classify her as a "gifted" student. Her school is not for the gifted and talented, per se, but they challenge the students. I might be wrong, but with the cuts in special ed etc. it seems the public schools are teaching the lowest common denominator. BTW, I thought students had to test in to the gifted and talented programs?? So, it's not like parents are manufacturing anything in kids. Just my two cents.

 

[mtemm]

I would say that most parents want to find the best education for their kids. If their child can work at a certain level, it is probably best to put them at that level. I've always felt that gifted kids were just as much 'special needs' as kids with academic difficulties, and those needs should be addressed just as you would address the needs of a child that is struggling. Trust me...gifted (hate that word) kids are not easy to raise/teach. There are many harmful things that can come from keeping a bright/gifted/advanced kid in a class that is well below the level they are at. Kids get bored, misbehave, don't learn the study skills to use when the material does become harder, have trouble finding a true peer group (social issues), develop a dislike of school, etc. Some gifted kids would be fine and others wouldn't...it is up to the parents and school to figure out which kids fall into which category, I guess. I do cringe when I hear that gifted progamming is on a budget chop list because, as I said, I think gifted kids have special needs.

Jess

I absolutely agree with this! unfortunately in my district, those are the funds that seem to be cut first. The lower kids are well funded and helped along, as they should be, but the advanced kids are neglected and that isn't right. Its very disheartening.

 

[NY Disney fan]

BTW, I thought students had to test in to the gifted and talented programs?? So, it's not like parents are manufacturing anything in kids. Just my two cents.

Trust me, there is a whole industry that is prepping them to the test.

 

[ccgirl]

Everyone wants to feel like their child is more special than "regular" children.

Confused by this??? In order to be placed in, and kept in, certain classes (gifted/talented/advanced placement) you have to actually do the work. I don't think it has anything to do with being "special". It's just a different level of academic success. Either you are on grade level, above grade level, or below grade level. All kids in each of those grade levels are special.

 

[ccgirl]

Trust me, there is a whole industry that is prepping them to the test.

But, don't they have to prove themselves (i.e. keep up with the "work") in order to stay?

 

[Hoodie]

I can't speak for all areas, but in the schools I've been involved with the regular classes consist of a mix of kids of all different ability levels, and the lessons and assignments are mostly aimed at the average or slightly below average students. This wasn't the case years ago, when kids tended to be grouped more by ability and the different groups were taught at different levels, and some of them covered more advanced material than others. The Gifted and Talented program provides a way to challenge the above average students. Those students are pulled out of class for additional instruction and assignments which are usually more difficult than those which are assigned in their regular class. They have to do all the work that is assigned in the normal class as well as in their G&T class. They also get to do more advanced activities than those they do in the normal class. This gives these students the opportunity to be challenged and to have to actually work rather than sailing through the normal assignments and spending lots of time bored out of their skulls while the teacher is going over (and over) information for the other students that the G&T kids have already mastered.

This is how our G&T program worked. It was open to the top students (I think the top 5-10% or so? there were about 10-15 of us in any year) to challenge them. it had nothing to do with "risk" factors. If you met the academic/intellectual requirement you were accepted.

Honestly, I think the increase in demand has a couple of factors: 1) many parents think their children are G&T whether they are or not. 2) many students who are above average, but not necessarily the top of the class, are not being challenged in the classroom anymore. The only option left is to try to get into upper level programs. The reason for that is a whole other thread though!