Getting rid of Little Red at AK

1st, what is PW ?

2nd,Matt, from where did you take your picture of SM ?

3rd, Prior to KS I did not know :

What Raticulated Giraffe (sp) meant.

Elephants scratch themselves on termite mounds.

Antelope stand on old mounds to stand guard.

Hippies kill more people then any other animal.

What an "upside down tree" is.

How much elephants eat.

Why Croc's hold their mouths open,( well,maybe I knew this).

What a "Tommy" is.

How bad poaching is.

The difference between Black & White Rhino's.

The cycle of agriculture on the African Savana.

And tons of stuff that i can't recall. Our local Six Flaggs has a Safari. All I learned from it was to never drive a car thru with a Vinyle top,the monkees rip it off and eat it.
 
Mr. KNWVIKING, your description of the drive thru safari gave me a much needed laugh!!! thanks!

As for the acronym, PW = Primevil Whirl...
 
I've become a West coaster, when I see Primeval Whirrl, I think its Primeval WORLD which is an absolutly excellent addition to the Disneyland Railroad.



Yoho, no it doesn't. It has only to do with who gave us Pirates, HM & JC versus which mgmt. team gave us KS (and little Red). Were it Walt's baby there'd be absolutely no discussion


Oh really, Last time I checked, I at least first fell in love with Pirates and Haunted and Jungle Cruise well before I even knew who Micheal Eisner was. And I first road KJ at least six months before our Esteemed Landbaron showed up (and when he did, I initially was fully on your side) So, no, my opinion at least has absolutly nothing to do with the managment team in charge.
 
Matt, as Scoop implied, you say potato, I say ... Well, anyway, say what you will but there will be no proof either way.
I know. Just thought I'd show you my hyperbole since you showed me yours!;)

But the fact is none of you guys embrace anything with a hint of an ME stamp on it.
Depends on how you define stamp. It does seem that very little of what he has significant input into turns out for the best. We know that many of the edicts coming down from on high are not exactly customer friendly. Also, the most successful Disney films, for the most part, are the smaller, family pictures Eisner doesn't interfere with as much.

From my 'outsider' point of view, I certainly embrace some of the things created on his watch, like ToT, Splash, the earlier animated films, L&S, some stuff in AK... but on the whole, more harm is being done than good. Its not like he is a new CEO trying to reign in rogue divisions...he has consolidated complete control over the organization, so he must be held responsible for direction.

As for KS, I'd certainly say there is more "right" about the attraction than there is "wrong". It is a family inclusive attraction that has proved appealling to Disney's guests. If this were an example of their worst work, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. But I do see AV's point that it could have been more. If approached with the intentions, not only would the worst of Disney's current creations be improved, but the best would be improved as well.

Matt, from where did you take your picture of SM ?
That's actually a picture of the tent in Toontown. I took it while walking down the exit stairs from Goofy's Barnstormer.
 


But that is just you Yoho, not the other yahoo's!;) And besides you've been absent from these boards almost as long as me (lots of folks don't know us).

Certainly there are exceptions, but generally it seems that Eisner 'given's' are not accepted well (i.e. KS, nee all of AK, AKL, RnR, TT, etc.) yet JC, Astro Orbitor, The Carousel, etc. continue to get a free pass. Look at the stink made over JIYI. It was a pretty lame attraction in the first place but it had a huge loyalty (note: I realize the mistake here was taking a time honored ride and "improving" it by actually making it worse! Duh! What WERE they thinking?)... Anyway, I know they (these examples) are from a bygone day, but they still were nothing spectacular even in their day...It's just such a double standard...

Anyway, good to be talking to you again...
 
Matt. It's nice to reach some sort of compromise. I have no beef with your last post at all!:p
 
"Elephants scratch themselves on termite mounds."

Well I guess the all that money they spent on Animal Kingdom is well earned. I mean, how can argue with the magic of learning that. Everything on the list I learned from a film strip in the third grade.

One really has to wonder what really makes Disney so special to some people. Yes, Disney's Jeep ride has more trees than Six Flags' Jeep ride. So what? They're the same ride except for the "but this one goes to eleven" factor that people confuse with something good.

Our good friend Mr. Scoop is correct. Quality does not guarantee success and sleazy often finds a substantial audience. I happen to believe that quality products have a better chance at success and with the odds so stack against you already, why not try for something unique, different, and truly great. At least you can sleep at night with the knowledge that you tried. I know plenty of others don't share that opinion. Creating something like that requires work and effort on the part of the creators, and work on the part of the audience as well. There are a lot of lazy people in this world.

Carnival games, cheap shopping mall rides, bad food at high prices, concrete box hotels…how are these different from about three million similar constructions across the country? I think we know the answer to that.

I guess there's no point in arguing it. Hell, Chez Whiz and Spam have plenty of fans too.

Gee…maybe that's what happened to Little Red.


P.S. " Heck M. Voice won't even give ME credit for brokering the deal with Pixar or for hiring Katzenburg for brokering the deal" – just as soon as blame him for personally ordering the removal of the fourth chicken finger.
 


I believe it was Michael Eisner's management directives that led to the removal of th 4th chicken finger at WDW restaurants...:p
 
If it wasn't for AV's remarkable sarcasim, I'd never have had my eyes opened to how bad one of my favorite rides in all of WDW really is. Guess we went to different schools during the 3rd grade because I didn't learn all the fun facts that are given on KS,we were learning math instead. But at least now I know that the only difference between KS and Six Flaggs are the number of trees.

Guess I should cancel my trips to WDW, I've got Sixx Flaggs just 50 miles away. Who needs a bunch of trees anyway.
 
Just thought I'd show you my hyperbole since you showed me yours!
Hey guys - none of that. This is a family site!
If it wasn't for AV's remarkable sarcasim, I'd never have had my eyes opened to how bad one of my favorite rides in all of WDW really is.
Ah, my good Viking - don't buy what M. AV is selling ;).
The point was not that KS was not realisitic. Nor was the criticism of M:S only that it was too realisitic.
Perhaps not.............................but...............
The problem with both Little Red and 'Mission: Space' is that they miss the real wonder and the real magic of their subject matter.
................because KS is not realistic enough? (after all, it is just "Gawking at caged animals") and M:S is too realistic in it's depiction of what astronauts experience?

I don't know. I with Scoop, there have been MANY times we have had to stop on KS for a white rhino or a giraff to cross the road, walking not more than 10 feet from the vehicle. That was pretty darn realistic to me.
 
warning to wtg2000 - I'm just posting this for sarcasm-

One really has to wonder what really makes Disney so special to some people. Yes, Disney's Jeep ride has more trees than Six Flags' Jeep ride. So what? They're the same ride except for the "but this one goes to eleven" factor that people confuse with something good.

sarcasm=
One really has to wonder what makes Journey to the Center of the Earth so special to some people. Yes, JTCOTE does go through a (pretend-looking) cave past fake looking glowing crystals and mushrooms, and there is a weird looking animatronic at the end that is apparently supposed to be something scarey, but is so strange and fake looking that you find yourself just looking at it blankly thinking "hmm, I wonder what that's supposed to be?" and the cars have roofs on them, unlike test track. So what? They're the same ride except for the "but this one goes to eleven" factor that people confuse with something good.
/sarcasm

OK, AV, although I agree with you most of the time, I wrote that because I don't agree with you here. I think the safari ride is really, really well done. In fact, I'll go one farther. I've ridden it probably a dozen times, more or less, who knows. There are moments - just a split second really, or maybe a fraction of a second - where I am looking at the animals or the scenary and for that fraction of a moment I forget that I am in central florida at a theme park. It is the ONLY attraction where I've had a fleeting moment of suspension of disbelief. I'm not talking about the little red story here, I'm talking about the scenary, the setting, the animals. When I rode JTCOTE I Knew from the moment I entered the cue, heck the momemt I entered the chaldea, until the moment I got off, that I was on one of the best theme park attractions in the world. I never doubted that for a second. However, on the safari, sometimes I realize that for the past moment or so I had forgotten I was on a ride in Florida, that, just for a second, I had been totally immersed and lost in the moment. It is the attention to detail in the setting, the scenary, the backdrop.
DR
 
"…there have been MANY times we have had to stop on KS for a white rhino or a giraffe to cross the road…"


And that's impressive because….? The bars on the cages are hidden? That Disney doesn't want to drive over their animals? That they've cleverly disguised the feeders to look almost like something that could pass for what people think an African tree ought to look like?

Funny, I can go down to the Wild Animal Park south of here. There I get to ride around in the back of a truck (without the phony radio), have a giraffes walk right up to me and eat food out of my hand. No programmed concrete trails to follow on the way to the phony elephant – just a naturalist that will answer my questions.

So---- what's more "realistic": pretend Africa or actually getting to touch the animals?

The Wild Animal Park is better because it presents real animals; Disney presents its animals as props. You could turn each creature in Disney's park into a carpet and replace them all with mechanical figures and the safari ride won't have to changed one bit. Even the old 1955 had hippos stopping the boat; it shouldn't be too hard to get a phony giraffe to do the same.

I understand what you're trying to say – you want to be entertained. No problem and that's a perfectly acceptable request. On that level, then I have to say Disney does a better job. But don't for a second believe that either Animal Kingdom or 'Mission: Space' offer anything "educational" or something grander than a few moments amusement. They are attractions in the truest sense of the word.

Disney had a chance to do something more, but they settled for less.

Enjoy.
 
M. AV:

Your argument here reminds me of some arguments I get about the entire WDW complex.

"Why go to World Showcase? I've been to France already?"

"Who wants to ride a jungle cruise with fake animals in it?"

"The Great Movie Ride? Sounds like the local Ripley's Wax Museum on Decatur."

Isn't the KS attraction at least on par with the rest of WDW, or is your quibble with the attraction that they could have done something better but didn't?
 
But don't for a second believe that either Animal Kingdom or 'Mission: Space' offer anything "educational" or something grander than a few moments amusement. They are attractions in the truest sense of the word.
Pssst.....................AV..........................a little secret.....................

WE ARE TALKING WDW THEME PARKS - THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT!!!!!

None of your 'classics from yesteryear' or attractions from the 'days before ME' are anything more. MK was never intended to be anything more. Better attractions than the other guys, done in a different way, where the whole family could enjoy it together - yes, but still attractions. Even the almighty educational EPCOT (not Epcot ;)) was nothing more. After all, Living Seas was just a large fish bowl, Land a garden patch, etc., etc. ;).

I do think KS is well done. I think M:S will be as well. Just my opinion of course.
 
My lone wonderment is my frend GCurling who is able to listen to the JC spiel over and over and yet gets bugged by the Little Red sequence. It all seems the same to me.
Perhaps it's the fun of seeing how each CM handles the spiel, waiting to see if he/she throws in something I've yet to hear. I think I can confidently say that if JC had a taped narration that played in the boat (always the same), I'd doubtfully ride very often. The CM "makes" the attraction. The Little Red thing has just grown tiresome in a short time. It has nothing to do with whether Eisner built it or not. Heck, as much as I think Dinosaur could be much, much better, we enjoy it over and over again - even though it has what could be considered a tiresome storyline. Not sure why the Little Red thing rubs me the wrong way, but it really does.

AV, [insert the "generally agree with you, blah blah blah" speech here] but this time I think perhaps you've gone overboard. Your message comes across as if you feel KS is a total piece of crap, a waste of time and money. You mention that it could have been "much more" but I'm not sure I understand what you've pointed out that could make it much better. You've written about the elephants language, how would you have worked that into the show? What more would you have done? I just curious, your contempt for this attraction seems very strong.
 
ya JC is all about (to me) which cm are we gonna get.

will we hear the britanny spears joke.

the florida recount joke.

or just some new joke ive never heard before. I'll even ride twice the same day, when the sun is up and at night. JC never gets boring depending on the delivery of the jokes.

KS i can only bare when riding it with someone 'new' cause they dont know whats going to happen.
 
JC never gets boring depending on the delivery of the jokes.
(Note - not signaling you out Alex - just using this as an opening to a general comment ;))

JC can be funny if you get a good CM. However, I have to point out that the majority of the "jokes" are canned and are the same. The shrunken heads bit, etc. - all the bits that are tied to the various 'sightings'. Sure, in between those sightings a good CM will tell a few funny jokes (although I'm sure these are scripted as well). It appears that that good filler has become the attraction for many. Not sure that was ever the intent of the ride.

CM on KS provide filler as well. So they don't make the jeeps the travelling comedy club that is the JC (and that is giving JC a little too much credit if you ask me). However, some of the CM are much better at delivering the filler they have on KS. Perhaps Disney should give the KS CM a little more leeway, or a little more scripted filler to work with, but a good CM can make a difference on KS as well.
 
JC can be funny if you get a good CM. However, I have to point out that the majority of the "jokes" are canned and are the same.

true but even the jokes that are the same everytime i get a kick out of new riders not getting them. like the downed plane you know how that happpens.......hippos...and like people are looking up and all around. i did the ride tipsy one time woooooooo it kicked @$$.

If i went on JC and didnt hear 'the backside of water' i'd go mad.

KS i think is decent at best. I hardly can understand the cm driving anyways. if it's not the noise from the truck its an accent or the cm is just boring, which i dont think is the cm's fault.

after awhile when you hear the fake radio calls from the plane i just start to roll my eyes like come on already. i think they should get rid of little red. give us some more lion time or a better view of the lions. The tommy's are cute but boring. I think what kills me about AK is just how here in joisey Great Adventure's safari you can see a ton of animals and then when i go to AK its like 'aaaa big deal.' DK have you ever been to Great Adventure? did ya ride nitro?
 

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