getting discouraged

[Hannathy]

Disney has always been crowded and remember waiting an hour plus in the mid 90's for most of the major rides that are an hour plus wait now. Sometimes nostalgia clouds our view of the past.

Exactly! I remember waiting in very long lines in the 70's. We even waited a long time for the Swiss Family tree house!

Why do you think the run for Space Mountain started? and back then it really was a run! No CM's walking the crowd.

 

[dsneprincess]

I could have written this thread 2 weeks ago after reading the DisBoards. I was set to have a miserable time in line. We did have access to FP+, which we used limitedly. We waited for Midway Mania at 4:15 in the afternoon on Friday for less than 45 minutes, no fast pass, We waited under 50 minutes standby for Soarin' on Wednesday afternoon at 2:15. This was during President's week. By comparison, DH & DS got stuck in a 20 minute Haunted Mansion line for 90 minutes and the ride stopped 4 times while they were in there. FP+ seems to have made the standby line "look" longer, but it didn't seem to slow the line much if at all. I had more issues with 1 park than anything else and traveling with different people than anything else. I was expecting ride lines to be my biggest issue.

The more I think about it, it seems the longest waits I had FP+ vs. FP-, were "lesser attractions": Living with the Land I should not have to wait 20-30 minutes, it 50 minutes into Soarin' or Midway Mania was ok. We are not a rope drop family, we just ave our (skewed?!?) expectations of what is "reasonable" to wait.

 

[Shaden]

Disney has always been crowded and remember waiting an hour plus in the mid 90's for most of the major rides that are an hour plus wait now. Sometimes nostalgia clouds our view of the past.

Exactly! I remember waiting in very long lines in the 70's. We even waited a long time for the Swiss Family tree house!

Why do you think the run for Space Mountain started? and back then it really was a run! No CM's walking the crowd.

Seriously ? Math ???

Magic Kingdom for example, has 3 MILLION more visitors annually than it did in 2000. That's 8200 on average per day. Though of course its going to work out more like 12000 more on busy days and 4000 more on lighter days. This has a massive impact on lines. Indeed if you want to talk about how you used to "stand in line" ... now add in an extra 10 000 people, what happens to those lines then ? lolololol.

You folks that like to pull out the "in the old days before FP" really don't have much to stand on. Its not the old days, there are far more people in the parks, and the price has gone up dramatically (far beyond what inflation can account for).

 

[Lucky4me]

Disney has always been crowded and remember waiting an hour plus in the mid 90's for most of the major rides that are an hour plus wait now. Sometimes nostalgia clouds our view of the past.

Not exactly. I've been going since 87. I've always gone off season for walk on rides all day. I don't think that exists anymore. 'off season' or walk on's all day.

 

[zeferjen]

We just got back. Rope dropped every day plus our 3 FP+ was really plenty for us. We would have ridden a few more rides under the old system but we literally didn't wait more than 30 minutes for anything. We rode TSM three times, just by being there 30 mins before park opened. I was worried, have been lurking on this board for several months, but it was fine. Also, there was plenty of flexibility to reschedule our "E ticket" choices day-of.

 

[dsneprincess]

Not exactly. I've been going since 87. I've always gone off season for walk on rides all day. I don't think that exists anymore. 'off season' or walk on's all day.

I will say MK at night has been total walk on for me this past week. We were there 3 nights with no FP+ ressies and, except Peter Pan, lines were walk on with SM sitting around 20 minutes. I didn't go over near BTMRR so not sure on that one, but MK, AT NIGHT, was just like I remember it. MK during the day was a complete nightmare.....lines in walkways and long long lines.

I do not EVER remember as many rides stopping as they did in MK last week. TTA stopped over 10 times in 2 rounds at different tomes then i stopped counting! HM topped 4 times in 1 trip, CoP stopped, BTMRR was down for a time every time I was there, TT went down once every time I was in Epcot. It became a running joke that perhaps Disney World was late paying their power bill and had to alternate attraction usage. I don't remember that Ever!

 

[Planogirl]

Not exactly. I've been going since 87. I've always gone off season for walk on rides all day. I don't think that exists anymore. 'off season' or walk on's all day.

I agree. I remember those all day walk on rides too but those seem to be a thing of the past.

Besides, why the nostalgia? If change is good, why look back after improvements have been made? A lot of posts in this thread are helpful for the OP and that help is what we should all be thinking about IMO.

 

[ConvenientTruth]

Seriously ? Math ???

Magic Kingdom for example, has 3 MILLION more visitors annually than it did in 2000. That's 8200 on average per day. Though of course its going to work out more like 12000 more on busy days and 4000 more on lighter days. This has a massive impact on lines. Indeed if you want to talk about how you used to "stand in line" ... now add in an extra 10 000 people, what happens to those lines then ? lolololol.

You folks that like to pull out the "in the old days before FP" really don't have much to stand on. Its not the old days, there are far more people in the parks, and the price has gone up dramatically (far beyond what inflation can account for).

Disney is significantly more efficient then it was years ago with more attractions spreading out the crowds. The increase of people going the off-season has has had a significant effect on the total number (summer has always been crowded, but due to aggressive marketing and price reduction the crowds in the off-season have increased). You claim math, but the crowd increase is most likely the opposite (larger crowds during the slow times) of what you claim.

Your 10,000 extra people is still in the 10% range...a 10% increase in wait time from an hour to an hour an a half is still under 10 minutes longer.

I'm not sure why the price was brought into the equation....

 

[Hannathy]

MK is also a lot bigger now than it was in the 70's with a lot more rides.

 

[Shaden]

Disney is significantly more efficient then it was years ago with more attractions spreading out the crowds. The increase of people going the off-season has has had a significant effect on the total number (summer has always been crowded, but due to aggressive marketing and price reduction the crowds in the off-season have increased). You claim math, but the crowd increase is most likely the opposite (larger crowds during the slow times) of what you claim.

Your 10,000 extra people is still in the 10% range...a 10% increase in wait time from an hour to an hour an a half is still under 10 minutes longer.

I'm not sure why the price was brought into the equation....

A 10% increase in people does not result in a 10% increase in wait times. That's not how lines work. There is a whole science behind crowd behavior, capacity and wait times. Growth is not linear, it is exponential.

Price was brought in because when you pay more, you ought to get more. Why would we go backwards to pre-FP when we are paying SO much more (in real dollars adjusted for inflation) than we were then ??? That's like saying, I shouldn't complain that my 2014 Cadillac has the same features as my 1970s Pacer. Things are supposed to get better, especially when you pay more for them.

 

[Shaden]

MK is also a lot bigger now than it was in the 70's with a lot more rides.

Notice, I didn't compare it to the 70s, if you want to make that comparison the difference in crowds is going to be MONSTEROUS. And capacity has NOT increased with the pace of crowds.

 

[Arsenal1982]

Seriously ? Math ???

Magic Kingdom for example, has 3 MILLION more visitors annually than it did in 2000. That's 8200 on average per day. Though of course its going to work out more like 12000 more on busy days and 4000 more on lighter days. This has a massive impact on lines. Indeed if you want to talk about how you used to "stand in line" ... now add in an extra 10 000 people, what happens to those lines then ? lolololol.

You folks that like to pull out the "in the old days before FP" really don't have much to stand on. Its not the old days, there are far more people in the parks, and the price has gone up dramatically (far beyond what inflation can account for).

Flawed Analysis. You're not accounting for all the variables.

Legacy FP was launched in late 1999 so the pre-2000 population numbers you cite had no other option but to wait in the regular line, the only line.

Fast Forward to 2014
FP+
More restaurants, shops, places to grab a snack.
New Fantasyland which helps soak up some of the increased crowds
New Headline Attraction - 7 Dwarfs

 

[Shaden]

Flawed Analysis. You're not accounting for all the variables.

Legacy FP was launched in late 1999 so the pre-2000 population numbers you cite had no other option but to wait in the regular line, the only line.

Fast Forward to 2014
FP+
More restaurants, shops, places to grab a snack.
New Fantasyland which helps soak up some of the increased crowds
New Headline Attraction - 7 Dwarfs

First of all, I didn't cite pre-2000 numbers. I cited 2000 numbers.

Secondly, Not really.
Fantasy land, sure a bit, but people have already noted, it comes no where near the capacity needed to soak up the additional people.

While its true new things have opened, old things have also closed, you need to keep that in mind. And one new "headliner" attraction, that has again, very low throughput, so doesn't really soak up much, and for the record ISN'T OPEN !!!!

Even if more restaurants and places to grab snacks have opened (not sure if the total number has actually increased, but assume it has) this might actually put MORE pressure on attractions, because if people are spending less time in line to GET their food (the amount people have to eat or amount of money to spend doesn't really change) ... then they will spend more time trying to ride rides.... (but again, I don't know that has actually been a growth of restaurants or snack locations since 2000)

Seriously, pointing to something that isn't even open yet ?

 

[poeticdiabetic]

To the OP-

You need not to get discouraged. The one thing that I've noticed was that when folks are out crying about one apocalypse or another, you will realize that when you get there it's never as bad as they describe. And some of the things that people are describing as a drag, it really doesn't matter in the end.

For instance, the last two times that I have went to WDW, I haven't ridden TestTrack. Seriously. The lines were way too long! And this was with the old Fastpass system. Also, we didn't ride Splash Mountain the last time and I've waiting over an hour and a half to ride Soarin. I also spent an hour in a line at Space Mountain at one time the last visit. These were all with the old Fastpass system. You know why? It was because we didn't do rope drop. We like staying out late and sleeping in. We wouldn't reach the parks until 10 or 11AM! So that means by the time we reach the parks, the fast passes are all gone!

So here's some advice that I can give after looking at the responses on this board:

If you really want to make sure that you get to ride the rides you wish, you simply must get there for rope drop. Then, you fast pass one ride and get in the line of the other ride you wish to ride on the tier. Therefore, you can make sure you ride all the rides you want to and then enjoy the rest of the park. Or, you can go into a longer ride and ride the ride over again via standby.

Hey, and do you know what? That would be the same advice that you have given someone last year. In other words, the only thing that has changed is that those folks that sleeps in have a chance to ride one of those tiered rides too!

 

[GotLabradors]

I wanted to go solo to Epcot one day next month, but Im feeling the same way. Off site, peak season, no fp-. ACK!
Not sure if I get there early and go straight to Soarin/TT, there will be any FP+'s left? I am not willing to stand in line first thing for fp+'s and miss out on short lines for my two favorite rides.

After those, the only thing I am there for is the flower and garden festival. Its been a long winter here and I need to look at flowers and gardens. lol

Funny how the new WDW commercials are saying "come be our guest and try fastpass plus during our "test". I thought it had already been tested. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvRPUzRGK7s

I actually saw this for the first time last night. I thought it was interesting that they even advertised this "test". We were planning to go fall of this year, but had to push back a year and now I'm glad. A friend of ours has offered us their condo down there free of charge when we go to Disney. I'm all for saving money, but I told my DH I want to see how the FP+ ends up shaking out before we make any decisions. I know they started MB/FP+ testing last fall. How long is this whole park test going to take?

 

[Arsenal1982]

First of all, I didn't cite pre-2000 numbers. I cited 2000 numbers.

Secondly, Not really.
Fantasy land, sure a bit, but people have already noted, it comes no where near the capacity needed to soak up the additional people.

While its true new things have opened, old things have also closed, you need to keep that in mind. And one new "headliner" attraction, that has again, very low throughput, so doesn't really soak up much, and for the record ISN'T OPEN !!!!

Even if more restaurants and places to grab snacks have opened (not sure if the total number has actually increased, but assume it has) this might actually put MORE pressure on attractions, because if people are spending less time in line to GET their food (the amount people have to eat or amount of money to spend doesn't really change) ... then they will spend more time trying to ride rides.... (but again, I don't know that has actually been a growth of restaurants or snack locations since 2000)

Seriously, pointing to something that isn't even open yet ?

I'm sorry but you're flat out wrong.

 

[Shaden]

I'm sorry but you're flat out wrong.

nice argument.

Please, give me some numbers about the capacity adds of Fantasy Land 2, or the increase in total number of shops or restaurants since 2000 and how, people are actually spending more time shopping or eating than they used to.

 

[bumbershoot]

So reading all the threads about the FP+ difficulties, I am wondering if i am going to be able to do what I wanted to do when I go next month. I will be in MK on 3/23 and what I really want to see is the new Fantasyland expansion. I dont mind waiting in lines, will be a single rider but it's kinda depressing thinking I might be in one for 2 hours.

Then I want to see the new TSM in HS on Monday. If I go there first thing, should I be ok to get on the ride rather quickly? I have a few other things i want to see but I really do not want to stress over it. I am going to have a little fun before a convention in Orlando starts.

Going to Epcot on Tues 3/25 and will try for Soaring but guess I wont even try for other stuff. Mostly want to see the topiaries here.

It really makes me wonder if the magic of Disney is seeping away.

Sounds like you have a focus for each park, which is good. When you're solo you have a lot of wiggle room and you can move quickly, so if changes need to be made it's really easy. And having the focus lets you be, well, focused.

With the focus of just a short list of things (new fantasyland is pretty small, if you ignore the things you've ridden before) you'll be fine IMO.

I haven't enjoyed FP+ but I don't see a problem with your plans at all. Little Mermaid has an interesting queue, Dumbo is pretty to look at. Wait, that's all I can think of in there. Barnstormer, Enchanting Tales (neither of which we've ever been) and something else related to Ariel? First time on TSMM at DHS was in standby and it was fine. Loud as heck, but fine (I bring earplugs for that line).

 

[vweryhappy]

The magic is gone.The Disneyworld we used to know and love has permanently changed.There is no more much of a off season anymore. I too miss the days when you could just walk onto rides. After my last trip mostly remember Brazilian group s and crowds from overseas and hordes of tour groups which Disney seems to be catering to now instead if the average American family.

 

[Ofinn]

The magic is gone.The Disneyworld we used to know and love has permanently changed.There is no more much of a off season anymore. I too miss the days when you could just walk onto rides. After my last trip mostly remember Brazilian group s and crowds from overseas and hordes of tour groups which Disney seems to be catering to now instead if the average American family.

We saw these at Universal last month too. Luckily we were staying onsite and had the express passes. I guess they don't stay onsite because they were not in the express lanes. Thank goodness. I think January/ February is there summer break. I never noticed them in May or September.