Generic Copyright Discussion...Please Don't Ban Me, Beth

[speedyf]

I don't want to get Beth mad...but, I received a few PM's about my comment on a previous thread regarding Disney Employees taking pictures with my camera and the use of those pictures.

Beth...if this thread is out of place...feel free to remove it. I have no problems with that and I'm not trying to start any trouble or another run-away right vs wrong thread.

In the previous thread, a statement was made that copyright laws protect a photographer by not allowing others to reproduce, sell, or use their images without their consent.

The postings also cleared up the fact that Disney has full rights over all pictures taken by their photographers onsite and that it was illegal for you to save these pictures from the Photopass website onto your computer without paying for them. Someone mentioned that if you want your own "free" photos, to give your personal camera to a Disney employee and get them to take a picture of your family with YOUR camera.

So...I then wanted to know and still want to know if you would legally need written consent from a Disney Photographer if you let them use your own personal camera to take a picture of your family while in Disney World. That picture would legally belong to the photgrapher who took the picture (Disney employee).

Do you then need to get a written consent from them to be able to print the picture from your camera or send it to relatives or store it on your computer?

I know it's all a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo and that the photographers at Disney will probably not go around suing every person that they've ever taken a picture of with a personal camera....but, I'm bored and figured I'd crank this topic up again.....

Spee

 

[lisajl]

I don't know, but that is very interesting!
Never, ever thought of them using my camera and it being copyright infringment.
HMMMMM....

Lisa

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

As I said in PM...

When you ask and they say okay to take your picture with your camera..you own it. Copyright law only protects the fact that they took the picture--but by saying yes and then giving you back the camera, you own the picture and can do with it what you wish...except enter it in a photo contest and say you took it...b/c you didn't take the image.

My photographer at my wedding was one who surrendered the negatives to the bride and groom. This gave me full rights to them as keeper of the negatives. I can't say I took them--but the rights to them are implied in the fact that I have the negatives and she doesn't.

In both cases--you are the owner of the image, even though you didn't create the image. You are free to do with it what you wish (as long as you don't claim for profit that you personally took the picture for profit or material gain...that would be morally wrong if not legally wrong).

 

[waspnest]

I didn't see the other thread yet, but is it true that Disney owns the copyright of anything taken by their photographers? If it was taken on your camera with your film or memory card, than I'd say you own it. The Disney employee did you the favor of taking the photo, but it's your equipment. The CM could say no to taking the picture.

 

[speedyf]

If Copyright law only protects the fact that they took the picture, then why couldn't you download a picture from the Photopass site and use it as a background on your computer or print it?

You are not claiming that you took the picture....since you are in the picture. You are not using the picture for profit by printing it for personal use or by putting it up as your screen saver.

If the picture is there on the internet and the copyright law is only protecting the fact that the photographer should get the credit for taking the picture...then, why can't I legally download the picture? I'm not trying to say I took the picture...I just want it for a computer background or for my own personal use.

Speed

 

[tlbwriter]

Good question. Technically speaking, the person who takes the picture owns the copyright unless they assign it to someone else. It doesn't matter who owns the equipment that was used. After all, when you hire a wedding photographer or videographer, that person owns the copyright to the works even if they have to rent the equipment (unless, of course, they sign away that right in their contract with you). The person they rented the equipment from doesn't own the copyright.

In Disney's case, the Photopass photog is under a "work for hire" agreement, which means the copyright has been assigned to someone else - all of their photos taken on the job belong to Disney. And since they are "on the clock" when they take your picture using your camera, one could make the argument that Disney owns those photos as well. But who knows if it would stand up in court...

 

[dturner]

I work in the Intellectual Property field.

Unless the photograph has been copyrighted (actually sent to the copyright office with your $30.00), there is no copyright infringement.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If Copyright law only protects the fact that they took the picture, then why couldn't you download a picture from the Photopass site and use it as a background on your computer or print it?

You are not claiming that you took the picture....since you are in the picture. You are not using the picture for profit by printing it for personal use or by putting it up as your screen saver.

If the picture is there on the internet and the copyright law is only protecting the fact that the photographer should get the credit for taking the picture...then, why can't I legally download the picture? I'm not trying to say I took the picture...I just want it for a computer background or for my own personal use.

Speed

Different ball game. You asked a cast member to take a picture of you with yoru camera. If they agreed, they did you a favor.

When they take it with their equipment and such and maintain the original copies (digital or otherwise) of the photo--it is their intellectual property.

Keeper of the negatives--goes a long way towards who maintains the rights.
You do not have the original digital image (and here's where my techno stuff gets very gibberish).....you don't have the rights to it. Plane and simple.


Don't care what you do--but when asked about the interpretation of the law..it is clear what it is.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I work in the Intellectual Property field.

Unless the photograph has been copyrighted (actually sent to the copyright office with your $30.00), there is no copyright infringement.

I would think that disney has a blanket coverage for all of there stuff.

And what happened to something is copyrighted once it is created?

 

[speedyf]

dturner....

To switch gears then....

If my wedding videographer did not copyright my wedding video and send in the $30....then, I am free to copy it and distribute it as I wish?

Thanks,
Speed

 

[tarmand]

I work in the Intellectual Property field.

Unless the photograph has been copyrighted (actually sent to the copyright office with your $30.00), there is no copyright infringement.

Well this is interesting. Are you saying that unless Disney sends each photo to the copyright office along with $30 they are not copyrighted?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The person they rented the equipment from doesn't own the copyright.

The professional also wouldn't hand the images over once they return the equipment.

I always thought that you wouldn't ask a photographer at Disney to put down their camera...and have them take a picture with your camera. I would bet somewhere that is company policy....so the CM didn't follow policy. I personally wouldn't have trouble--b/c I don't go asking photogs to do this.

However--when someone agrees to take a picture of you with your camera and then they let you keep the image or negative..you really have nothing that will stand up in court. Permission is implied. Whether or not company policy is violated or not.

 

[tlbwriter]

I work in the Intellectual Property field.

Unless the photograph has been copyrighted (actually sent to the copyright office with your $30.00), there is no copyright infringement.

That's not true. A work is copyrighted as soon as it is put into a "fixed form" (i.e., you cannot copyright an idea, but as soon as you write it or draw it, it's "fixed.") You do not have to pay any money or send anything in to the copyright office in order for your work to be protected under copyright law. Registering does give you additional rights, but it is not required.

More info at Nolo Press.

 

[dturner]

dturner....

To switch gears then....

If my wedding videographer did not copyright my wedding video and send in the $30....then, I am free to copy it and distribute it as I wish?

Thanks,
Speed

Did you sign some kind of contract with the wedding videographer???

I'll have to read up on a blanket copyright, not sure if such a thing exists - I do more patents and trademarks.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

dturner....

To switch gears then....

If my wedding videographer did not copyright my wedding video and send in the $30....then, I am free to copy it and distribute it as I wish?

Thanks,
Speed

Only if they tell you it is okay.

If they do have a copy service and you wish to not have them copy it--then you are violating it.

I actually think we had permission to make copies...but it has been a while and no idea where that contract is now, so not like I can go check for the explicit wording.

However--hubby and I are big into not violating copyright law...so like my photos...the video rights were signed over as well (same company).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's not true. A work is copyrighted as soon as it is put into a "fixed form" (i.e., you cannot copyright an idea, but as soon as you write it or draw it, it's "fixed.") You do not have to pay any money or send anything in to the copyright office in order for your work to be protected under copyright law. Registering does give you additional rights, but it is not required.

More info at Nolo Press.

Thanks for clearing that up!


I thought this was the case and felt like I had just entered the twilight zone.

 

[tlbwriter]

I would think that disney has a blanket coverage for all of there stuff.

And what happened to something is copyrighted once it is created?

You are correct - it is copyrighted as soon as it is created. You do NOT have to send anything to any office in order for it to be covered by copyright law.

 

[speedyf]

Lisa....

Now that I have a DVD Recorder....I'd like to copy my original VHS tape over to DVD....I would then be violating the copyright law, correct?

Don't you just love this country...lol

Speed

 

[speedyf]

Also...just because I buy a print from Disney....does not give me rights to the actual original photo.

In other words....I cannot purchase a Disney photo....scan the photo (reproduction / copying) and use it as my computer background. That would be illegal.....

Speed

 

[dturner]

Advantages to Copyright Registration

There are, however, certain advantages to registration, including the establishment of a public record of the copyright claim. Copyright registration must generally be made before an infringement suit may be brought. Timely registration may also provide a broader range of remedies in an infringement suit.

This is what I was talking about - copyright infringement - you can't file a copyright infringement suit unless your item is copyrighted.