Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't get what there's not to get about not knowing. Many people in this and other threads have said they didn't know about the alligators.

We'll have to differ here...

I don't get on a plane and not knew anything about where I'm going...

Florida:
1. Warm
2. Beaches
3. Water
4.Latin
5. Oranges
6. Touristy amusements
7. Golf
....

Gators honestly make the top 10...at least the existence of them.

This to me leads back to the incorrect assumption that Disney could or wants to control nature. I'll just be different on this one.

 

[Accident]

They absolutely have to obtain permits from the county, the SFWMD, and other government agencies before work can begin. That's how the plans get out before the official announcement -- they are filed with the county for approval.

I wouldn't be surprised if the county put a stop to them just so they could say they were 'doing something' about what happened.

Do you mean reedy creek? Disney is the government when it comes to building permits, building code, etc on their property within the reedy creek borders.

 

[dlavender]

IIRC, that sign ( or one identical to it), is on the SOG property. And since it also doesn't specifically warn against swimming, wading, of playing in the water, or near it, and isn't in at least a a dozen different languages and braille, it wouldn't satisfy the people screaming for more detailed signage.

No. That sign should have been there in place of the no swimming sign. Would have satisfied me. So, I guess you are a little off...

 

[kellyjeanie]

We'll have to differ here...

I don't get on a plane and not knew anything about where I'm going...

Florida:
1. Warm
2. Beaches
3. Water
4.Latin
5. Oranges
6. Touristy amusements
7. Golf
....

Gators honestly make the top 10...at least the existence of them.

This to me leads back to the incorrect assumption that Disney could or wants to control nature. I'll just be different on this one.

Have heard of gators - yes. Knew they were all over in Florida - yes. Knew or even considered that a 2-year-old would be in danger of being dragged off the beach in front of one of the deluxe hotels - no.

 

[jennypenny]

No, Disney has to go through the county and SFWMD before any construction. Google it. It might usually be a formality when it comes to Disney, but after what just happened it wouldn't surprise me if they (the county) acted just to reassure the public.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well Disneys situation is complex with reedy creek and such. Locked out probably knows the details more than me, but I always thought the permit process was a "formality". See how they built the studios before universal even though construction started later

Edit: see above

Correct...

They never get a permit rejected...and inspections are a formality.

The have to contend with the water management distict given the state of the Everglades...but even that is w veritable partnership.

Does anyone understand how much money each project is? What that does to revenues and the labor market? How it pays out long term?

It's simple Chicago style math...the rubber stamp is a blazing.

 

[LizzyS]

A terrible tragedy, but this isn't unlike other wildlife accidents that happen. Either people are unaware or else they don't take wild animals seriously. Even if there were adequate signage, you would still get people ignoring the advice they just read. How about that guy last week that disintegrated at Yellowstone in a hot spring? There were signs and he decided to venture way out into a restricted area.

Disney's in Florida (known for gators) and apparently they need to increase signage, but that probably wouldn't prevent all incidents, either.

 

[dlavender]

When we went camping in Alaska, there were countless signs about how to handle bears, warning you about bears and wildlife, remember to put your trash away because of the bears, etc., etc.

We did a lot of research before going, and I assume those who go camping anywhere would, but they still put signs out. Kept you vigilant.

For the record, Alaska is outside.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

No, Disney has to go through the county and SFWMD before any construction. Google it. It might usually be a formality when it comes to Disney, but after what just happened it wouldn't surprise me if they (the county) acted just to reassure the public.

You identified the reality in there...

If I might ask...where are you from?

Sounds northern...like me...because the description of what you think the local government would and can do and their motivations reminds me of Manhattan.

 

[elizabethswan]

I agree. I knew because Ive been told by the ferry captains. I thought the "no swimming" signs were because the water was contaminated. Dipping toes and swimming are different things to me. Clearly these were great parents as the father was by the boys side and the daughter was in a playpen on the beach. Disney should put clear signs "Do not go near water" "Danger: Alligators" Im not blaming Disney for not having the signs, but without them, you can not blame the parents for not knowing. This is just so horribly horrific for all involved. I cant stop thinking about the family and I am heartbroken for all of them.

Here is my 12 year old in Bay Lake, wakeboarding. Apparently Sammy Duvall did not feel the waters were unsafe when they took my $300 for being at risk for 2 hours.

i am confused. i didn't even know they had water skiing and wakeboarding. with the whole amoeba danger, wouldn't that be very dangerous if you fell in? and the alligators? . how do these companies offer these activities if people are not supposed to be in the water? i thought all fresh water swimming was not allowed? very confused here.

 

[moulinette]

This is so terrible To be fair to the parents, I know that there are gators in Florida, but it has never crossed my mind that they could be in the lagoons on WDW property. But I have never entered a lagoon either, because of the signs saying that you can't swim there.

I really can't see how Disney is at fault though. A toddler shouldn't be a foot deep in a lagoon that has 'no swimming' signs by themselves at night, when there wasn't full visibility. Regardless of gators, anything could have happened.

 

[dlavender]

If they find that Disney purposefully decided against signs depicting alligators as a cautionary measure, because they felt that it would ruin the theme, vibe, magic, whatever, do the people rallying around the "no signs are ever necessary" argument still feel that way?

I mean, why would shades of green (Not a Disney owned property, for those of you touting their signage), use the proper signage, and the Disney property which is right next to it, using the same waterway, not use that signage? How else can you look at that?

 

[minnie mum]

A terrible tragedy, but this isn't unlike other wildlife accidents that happen. Either people are unaware or else they don't take wild animals seriously. Even if there were adequate signage, you would still get people ignoring the advice they just read.

Case in point: That sign that I said was at SOG? It's not far from the main entrance if you're walking from Poly. My DDs FIL saw that sign and wanted to head straight for it to see if he could find a gator. The man's a candidate for the Darwin award.

 

[Delgado]

I'm curious about warning signage in other areas around Florida. Is "No Swimming" standard signage for similar public areas or are they usually more explicit with regards to possible dangers? Is signage regulated in any way?

Signage I have seen personally in florida outside of disney has said something to the conclusion of "danger alligators"

 

[rteetz]

Do you mean reedy creek? Disney is the government when it comes to building permits, building code, etc on their property within the reedy creek borders.

Unless it affects the South Florida water management district. They have to file permits with them which is not part of reedy creek and is the Florida government.

 

[Lewisc]

This is so terrible To be fair to the parents, I know that there are gators in Florida, but it has never crossed my mind that they could be in the lagoons on WDW property. But I have never entered a lagoon either, because of the signs saying that you can't swim there.

I really can't see how Disney is at fault though. A toddler shouldn't be a foot deep in a lagoon that has 'no swimming' signs by themselves at night, when there wasn't full visibility. Regardless of gators, anything could have happened.

The toddler wasn't by himself. He was with his parents. The father didn't have the skills to save his child from the gator.

 

[newdeal]

I have never been to the beach at the grand floridian but I have been to the beach at the carribean beach resort and fort wilderness and I can say for sure that they need better signage to stay out of the water. Either there is very minimal signage or no signage. I wouldn't be surprised if they put ropes across the waterline at every beach on property

 

[JackTwo]

How can any rational person argue that the signage was sufficient to warn of a possible alligator attack? Sure, the signs say "no swimming", but most people would probably assume that is because there is no lifeguard on duty (and Disney wants to protect from liability against drownings). If you feel that you are a safe swimmer or that you there to be a lifeguard for your kids, you might go ahead and swim anyway...unless you happened to know you can get eaten by an alligator if you go in. It seems to me that Disney did not specifically include alligator warnings on the signage because it didn't want to advertise the fact that it has deadly reptiles wading throughout the property. I'm from California and, while I'm aware that alligators are prominent in Florida, I was not aware that they were on Disney property. In fact, during my last visit to WDW, I specifically noticed the absence of any alligator warnings on the signage near the various lakes on property and, based on that, asked a CM whether there were alligators on property and was told "no."

As a lawyer, I anticipate that Disney will argue that the "no swimming" signs was sufficient, but this looks like it going to result in a significant settlement.

 

[ELSA711]

Seriously? It was pitch dark and the water, even in daylight is murky.

Yes Serious question.
If people feel it safe for 2yr old to play in dark murky waters at night preventative sign or not that it would be safe to assume a trained diver could go in ASAP
I known its not standard, but I would have volunteered to try

 

[dlavender]

How can any rational person argue that the signage was sufficient to warn of a possible alligator attack? Sure, the signs say "no swimming", but most people would probably assume that is because there is no lifeguard on duty (and Disney wants to protect from liability against drownings). If you feel that you are a safe swimmer or that you there to be a lifeguard for your kids, you might go ahead and swim anyway...unless you happened to know you can get eaten by an alligator if you go in. It seems to me that Disney did not specifically include alligator warnings on the signage because it didn't want to advertise the fact that it has deadly reptiles wading throughout the property. I'm from California and, while I'm aware that alligators are prominent in Florida, I was not aware that they were on Disney property. In fact, during my last visit to WDW, I specifically noticed the absence of any alligator warnings on the signage near the various lakes on property and, based on that, asked a CM whether there were alligators on property and was told "no."

As a lawyer, I anticipate that Disney will argue that the "no swimming" signs was sufficient, but this looks like it going to result in a significant settlement.

I'm not a lawyer, however, I feel that the fact that they have teams of people whose sole purpose is to constantly look for and remove alligators is the key. They most likely have counts of how many they have removed. They have intimate knowledge of the threat, and did not warn their guests. It's really that simple.