Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[poison ivy]

. So the amoeba wasn't the real cause of the swimming ban. Just like the current incident, what happened in the 80s was a freak, tragic accident.

this is one area I'm having trouble agreeing with. I don't consider this to be a freak accident. I consider it to be an accident waiting to happen. the gator population growth combined with increased sightings and the allowing of guests to wade in the water at all let alone at night during the fireworks or movie showings gradually increased the probability of an attack. It's not ok for the company to not have adequately warned guests. They have whole departments and teams of professionals dedicated to liability and guest safety.

I'm not sure of your point of view. I agree a sign shouldn't have to be interpreted. Where I live no swimming means there aren't any lifeguards. People shouldn't be swimming. It doesn't prohibit taking off your shoes and wading. Going out a foot or two. Posters have shared the signs used if there are gators present.
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I think we're on the same side here. My point was in response to a poster who felt the sign "no swimming" needed no further explanation as it clearly meant do not go near the water and was sufficient to keep everybody out. I did not agree.

 

[mshanson3121]

2 year olds with no light/visibility huh?

That's "normal", ehh?

There was some light/visibility there. And i didnt say 2 year olds. You said people, I said people. People swim in the dark sometimes.

 

[APiratesLifeForMe2]

Media briefing moved from 6pm to 4pm. May have found gator involved according to Daralene Jones with WFTV twitter feed

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Wheres the sign that says not to feed them?

"I paid $2000, I can feed the dangerous animals if I want...."

Sorry to skip 15 pages, but I can just hear it now.

I've learned today that many people do not know the purpose of the "no swimming signs"; it's because you are in great danger of getting a brain disease and now apparently in moderate danger of alligators. I grew up in a coastal area, so I know "no swimming" really means "Do not get in the water." I think Disney should change the signs to say "Do not enter the water."

I'm sick to my stomach thinking of that poor child and how horrific that must have been for his parents and siblings if they were also watching. I would barely be able to visit a zoo again after that. How tragic!

 

[1234lucky]

Legally, Disney's responsibility here is a question of fact. Could they have done more? How much did they know? Should the signs have been better? When they started pulling more gators from the water was that enough to put them on notice of an increased risk? Was the lighting sufficient on the beach? Was it monitored properly? Etc. etc.

This thread itself demonstrates people can disagree about these facts. Given the circumstances, I cannot imagine if a suit were to be filed (and I would expect one) that Disney would spend much time defending. I'd think they would seek a pre-suit mediation and resolve it via settlement. Litigating the above questions would not beneficial for them. Certainly blaming the parents would be a delicate and potentially unpopular strategy.

The outrageous and unbearably sad circumstances, however unexpected and seemingly remote, would drive a settlement here.

 

[mcjaco]

I understand your perspective. A simple "Keep out of the water" should be sufficient. In general, I don't think people should have to know why the rule is in place in order to follow it when they are guests somewhere.

But the fact remains that a child is gone. The dad probably didn't think he was breaking any rules and probably hadn't given gators a second thought. The only thing that family should be coming home with is a suitcase full of souvenirs and memories, not an empty car seat.

(This is not directed at you specifically, just humanity) We shouldn't become so callous and unfeeling that we spend hours disecting the what ifs and who is responsible and who was negligent and forget that we are talking about the loss of life.

There is a time and a place for sarcasm and jokes. This is most asuredly not it.

And many pages back, I wrote multiple times that I cannot fathom what the family is going through, with small children of my own. That also being said, when we were staying at the Marriott Grande Vista two years ago, there was a small alligator in the waterway there. The boys and I watched it from a bridge almost daily, but I also warned them of the danger, and that there are alligators in Florida and to stay away from the water.

Also, joking about such things is a coping method that many use, and has been scientifically found to help with the grieving period.

 

[umichigan10]

I don't know enough about alligators to present a solution, but aren't they much more dangerous in water? If they had to drag their prey to the water to retain control, they couldn't easily do that with a fence in the way, right?

I believe they can reach around 30 mph on land, hut I doubt they regularly drag their prey over fences, nor would attempt to

 

[2009CAN]

It involved a CM though. They were silent and I dont Expect much different now.

I could be wrong, but I thought that Disney Co made a 1.5 million donation to the Orlando fund? But I do think they should have put something out about the loss of their direct employee

 

[Josh Hendy]

If wading near the beach with a 2 year old was a breach of common sense then I have to confess that I would have probably done the same thing. Even knowing that there are gators at WDW it just would have seemed to hard to imagine and there but for the grace of God ...

If there are any guilty parties here, I blame the guests who allegedly fed the gators, and the WDW resort staff if ... I said IF ... they tolerated the feeding or did not take strong, severe steps to stop it whenever they became aware of it.

 

[dlavender]

Yes I see it, that top isn't relevant to the warning. It clearly says people with X,Y,Z shouldn't ride. The other information while adding to reason does not change the fact that they shouldn't be riding. Same goes for a sign that has a "no swimming" symbol. Clearly shows that people shouldn't be in the water. The reasoning isn't relevant either. I also argue that a sign is only as good as the person who reads it and understands it's meaning, which I've said several times. The sign won't prevent this from happening again anymore than killing all gators in Disney property.


At the end of the day they could plaster signs on everything, put up walls throw rocks onto the beach, hell in reality to be completely safe they would probably be better off just ripping down all of Disney World and letting it return to swamp land. Nothing in life is a 100% safe situation and Disney's track record in this particular scenario is as close to 100% as any.

Not relevant to the warning?!? It's the reason for the warning!! It clearly states why they shouldn't ride. Why not apply the same principle? The ride warning sign doesn't just say "be careful". It is specific so that you can make an informed decision. Same needs to be done with the lagoon signs. I think you agree with me, you just don't realize it.

I don't think anyone believes that any entity can guarantee 100 % safety. No one is saying that. What I am is saying, is that if you are aware of a risk, and that risk can cause serious harm or death, then people should be explicitly made aware of that risk.

 

[EvilQueen1]

Uh, yeah, beaches do have signs like this along with signs about slippery rocks, large waves, strong currents - depending on which beach you're on. These warning signs can save lives, and no, not all people know these things..that's why there are signs.

View attachment 175654

I've yet to go to a beach that had signs like that other than "swim at your own risk". I've lived near the water my whole life. Sharks are present in our waters.

 

[rteetz]

I could be wrong, but I thought that Disney Co made a 1.5 million donation to the Orlando fund? But I do think they should have put something out about the loss of their direct employee

Yes they did 24 hours or so after the media silence.

 

[mcjaco]

Legally, Disney's responsibility here is a question of fact. Could they have done more? How much did they know? Should the signs have been better? When they started pulling more gators from the water was that enough to put them on notice of an increased risk? Was the lighting sufficient on the beach? Was it monitored properly? Etc. etc.

This thread itself demonstrates people can disagree these facts. Given the circumstances, I cannot imagine if a suit were to be filed (and I would expect one) that Disney would spend much time defending. I'd think they would seek a pre-suit mediation and resolve it. Litigating the above questions would not beneficial for them. Certainly blaming the parents would be a delicate and potentially unpopular strategy.

The outrageous and unbearably sad circumstances, however unexpected and seemingly remote, would drive a settlement here.

You won't see them blame the parents. At least not in front of the media. Behind closed doors there will be some finger pointing.

Again, I had to settle a death case of an 11 year due to a go-cart accident. There was legal liability on my insured's part (security road that was not properly secured, poorly lit at the area of the accident, and was considered an attractive nuisance), but a great deal of the liability fell on the family as well - which I cannot divulge. Not something we'd go out and shout from the roof tops, but it was discussed openly at the mediation, and that the facts behind that negligence would come out in a trial, which was not something the family wanted anyone to hear.

In the end, there is no good resolution. A child is gone. Nothing Disney can do, regardless of fault, will bring them back.

 

[rteetz]

If wading near the beach with a 2 year old was a breach of common sense then I have to confess that I would have probably done the same thing. Even knowing that there are gators at WDW it just would have seemed to hard to imagine and there but for the grace of God ...

If there are any guilty parties here, I blame the guests who allegedly fed the gators, and the WDW resort staff if ... I said IF ... they tolerated the feeding or did not take strong, severe steps to stop it whenever they became aware of it.

I think many are in the same boat that they would've let their kids play on the beachs and near the water at Disney. Disney is considered a "safe bubble" to most. You just don't expect these types of things to happen at Disney.

 

[poison ivy]

so apparently a gator lunged at a family at the Poly weeks before. Yes I blame the company.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/terrified-brit-family-chased-alligator-8197003

 

[maxiesmom]

I believe they can reach around 30 mph on land, hut I doubt they regularly drag their prey over fences, nor would attempt to

And the problem is once the close their mouth on you, that is it. They only open them again when they feel like it.

 

[1234lucky]

You won't see them blame the parents. At least not in front of the media. Behind closed doors there will be some finger pointing.

Again, I had to settle a death case of an 11 year due to a go-cart accident. There was legal liability on my insured's part (security road that was not properly secured, poorly lit at the area of the accident, and was considered an attractive nuisance), but a great deal of the liability fell on the family as well - which I cannot divulge. Not something we'd go out and shout from the roof tops, but it was discussed openly at the mediation, and that the facts behind that negligence would come out in a trial, which was not something the family wanted anyone to hear.

In the end, there is no good resolution. A child is gone. Nothing Disney can do, regardless of fault, will bring them back.

I have done the same. I've seen instances where arguments that the parents were liable in a child's death were strong despite being difficult to make. I do think that with these facts, as presently reported, with a toddler in very shallow water and father so close behind that he tried to beat off the animal would seem to make comparative arguments more difficult.

 

[maxiesmom]

so apparently a gator lunged at a family at the Poly weeks before. Yes I blame the company.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/terrified-brit-family-chased-alligator-8197003

You shouldn't. There is no possible way to keep gators out of any body of water in Florida. It is impossible. That is like blaming someone for bear attacks in Alaska.

 

[niffer5150]

I don't know enough about alligators to present a solution, but aren't they much more dangerous in water? If they had to drag their prey to the water to retain control, they couldn't easily do that with a fence in the way, right?

they don't need to drag you into the water to kill you, especially if you happen to be a small child. alligators can just kill you faster in the water. that doesn't mean you won't die all the same on dry land.

 

[rteetz]

so apparently a gator lunged at a family at the Poly weeks before. Yes I blame the company.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/terrified-brit-family-chased-alligator-8197003

Now is this a confirmed report? I haven't seen this story anywhere else.

I also don't think you can 100% blame the company. You cannot control all alligators in Florida. You also have several reports of people feeding gators on Disney property. That is half of the problem right there. People should not be feeding gators it is illegal.