Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[MamaBelle4]

We stayed at Fort Wilderness from June 1-11. One of the first nights there after leaving the MK, we decided to watch the fireworks on that beach at Fort Wilderness. After we got there, I left to go buy something at the general store.
I left my wife and four girls (4,6,8,10) there on that dark beach where the lawn chairs were. They knew not to go in…but it would not have surprised me if one of them had walked in to just get their feet wet.
The bugs were so bad that by the time I was coming back, the girls were already packed up and heading back.
But if there are multiple alligators around The Grand Floridian, then no telling what was out and around us back there.
The stuff of nightmares.
I hate to say it, but I will never be able to think about that trip without what just happened.
Every time we would approach the lake, whether it was to go to the Magic Kingdom, or somewhere to eat, in the back of my mind I would think about the alligators and how Disney must constantly patrol and clean out. I would think that with as many people in that area with small children, they couldn’t possibly afford to have one in there. But it is Central Florida…

I'm only commenting on yours to say we have four girls too (1, 3, 5, & 7). I just keep thinking about that poor broken family. Becauseof the age of my girls, I wouldn't have them near the water at night, especially since DH and I are outnumbered, but I would be worried about the younger ones running IN, not a gator coming OUT.

 

[disneynutz]

Never take anything for granted, Disney has gators, snakes, spiders, mosquitoes, other animals, bacteria, viruses and people who can do you harm.

Bill

 

[TeresaWen]

My thoughts are with the grieving family and friends of that child. So tragic. There really is not anything more to say.

 

[maxiesmom]

You can only tell people what not to do. If they feel the rules don't apply to them there is not much anyone else can do. People ignore signs, they climb over barriers. There is no way to protect people from themselves 100%.

What happened is truly horrifying but Disney is not to blame. Even they can't protect people from themselves all of the time.

 

[poison ivy]

I can't get over the people who think that a sign that says "no swimming" means they could wade in the water.

Even if I had no clue that alligators were in that lake, if I saw a "no swimming" sign, I would assume that meant that I was not to put my body into that water. Not my feet, not my hands, not a wisp of hair. For all I know, that "no swimming" sign is up because the lake is highly polluted, why the heck would I want to go in it? Maybe it's because I'm from NJ (where unfortunately, many of our fresh water habitats are polluted) or because I'm a city girl and have never swam in a lake in my life, but wading and swimming are the same thing.

That being said, I feel incredibly bad for the poor child and his family. This is a complete nightmare, and I do hope Disney makes their signs a bit scarier so folks don't wade in the water.

But this is not Disney's fault. No swimming means no wading means keep your body parts out of the water.

a no swimming sign should not be subject to interpretation. signs mean what they say, Not what a person thinks. Especially at Disney. They must communicate effectively to insure guest safety.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Interesting to see their Facebook page is saying nothing about this tragedy at all. No condolences, nothing. But some comments are starting to come in. CNN had an article about the financial aspect, questioning how it may hurt stocks etc...

What would you have them say?
Offer condolences to a family that is probably still clinging to hopes of a miracle? Heck, I'm still praying for one, even though I know otherwise.
Warn of alligators? That would seem cold to me. (I'm not saying they shouldn't warn about the gators, I'm just saying FB update probably isn't the way).

I'm not attacking, I am genuinely asking. I don't know what Disney could say at this point.

 

[DisUniversal]

I can't get over the people who think that a sign that says "no swimming" means they could wade in the water.

Even if I had no clue that alligators were in that lake, if I saw a "no swimming" sign, I would assume that meant that I was not to put my body into that water. Not my feet, not my hands, not a wisp of hair. For all I know, that "no swimming" sign is up because the lake is highly polluted, why the heck would I want to go in it? Maybe it's because I'm from NJ (where unfortunately, many of our fresh water habitats are polluted) or because I'm a city girl and have never swam in a lake in my life, but wading and swimming are the same thing.

That being said, I feel incredibly bad for the poor child and his family. This is a complete nightmare, and I do hope Disney makes their signs a bit scarier so folks don't wade in the water.

But this is not Disney's fault. No swimming means no wading means keep your body parts out of the water.

I would not expect that at all. At Disney I would take "No swimming" to mean just that and not include getting ones feet wet up to the ankles. If they want to be clear, they need a sign more along the lines of this:

 

[jayfo]

Even the idea of this tragedy is making me so heartbroken. And the sicko comments I see on FB blaming the parents for this are really making me lose any hope in humanity. If I witnessed this happening to one of my babies, you'd have to lock me up in a padded room. So awful.

 

[rteetz]

Interesting to see their Facebook page is saying nothing about this tragedy at all. No condolences, nothing. But some comments are starting to come in. CNN had an article about the financial aspect, questioning how it may hurt stocks etc...

What would you expect Disney to do? Disney had complete media silence after the shootings. I expect nothing different for this.

 

[Liljo22]

Disney definitely dropped the ball on this. I would bet you money that, after today, they will clean them off the property and away from people. I don't see how they can't at this point.
If I am right, and if they take a proactive approach to ridding them, then it could have been done, it should have been done, yesterday, two weeks ago, twenty years ago.

Can you imagine actually staying at the resort right now? At the GF? It must be horrendous.

Have you read through the thread at all? Disney has trappers taking out gators all the time. They can clean them off the property like you said and then 10 more can be in there the next week. There is zero chance of that happening.

 

[rteetz]

Disney definitely dropped the ball on this. I would bet you money that, after today, they will clean them off the property and away from people. I don't see how they can't at this point.
If I am right, and if they take a proactive approach to ridding them, then it could have been done, it should have been done, yesterday, two weeks ago, twenty years ago.

Can you imagine actually staying at the resort right now? At the GF? It must be horrendous.

Clean what off property? Gators? That's not possible. These are large fresh bodies of water, alligators can and will find ways back into them.

 

[mshanson3121]

What would you have them say?
Offer condolences to a family that is probably still clinging to hopes of a miracle? Heck, I'm still praying for one, even though I know otherwise.
Warn of alligators? That would seem cold to me. (I'm not saying they shouldn't warn about the gators, I'm just saying FB update probably isn't the way).

I'm not attacking, I am genuinely asking. I don't know what Disney could say at this point.

The news has now all officially said that there is no hope of recovering a live body, so yeah, I thought they might have something saying that they were sorry for the tragedy, and their thoughts are with the family, and that they will certainly be revisiting park policy in hopes of preventing such a future tragedy from happening again.

Even if there was hope of a live recovery, they could still have a statement saying they're sorry for what has happened, are certainly praying for a recovery and again with policy review.

 

[nkosiek]

Interestingly enough they have signs up at the golf courses and I believe near Shades of Green, though that driveway I'm thinking of could be the one for the Palm/Magnolia. I saw some gators while golfing the Oak Trail 2 years ago, didn't think anything of it other than, "Oh yeah, I'm in Florida." Saw the signs, knew not to go over that way. Chalked a lost ball and a stroke penalty to it.

 

[MamaBelle4]

The news has now all officially said that there is no hope of recovering a live body, so yeah, I thought they might have something saying that they were sorry for the tragedy, and their thoughts are with the family, and that they will certainly be revisiting park policy in hopes of preventing such a future tragedy from happening again.

Even if there was hope of a live recovery, they could still have a statement saying they're sorry for what has happened, are certainly praying for a recovery and again with policy review.

I'm sure (or at least hoping) Disney officials have already privately expressed their condolences. I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think social media is an appropriate platform for that sort of thing.

 

[mshanson3121]

What would you expect Disney to do? Disney had complete media silence after the shootings. I expect nothing different for this.

The shooting didn't happen on their property.

 

[Tigger's ally]

I'm sure (or at least hoping) Disney officials have already privately expressed their condolences. I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think social media is an appropriate platform for that sort of thing.

Yeah, me too. Who cares about facebook at times like these. Face to face condolences are what should have already been done and I am sure they have.

 

[mshanson3121]

I'm sure (or at least hoping) Disney officials have already privately expressed their condolences. I'm probably in the minority, but I don't think social media is an appropriate platform for that sort of thing.

I don't necessarily either, but... it is the reality of today's world, and many will be expecting it, and will think negatively when they don't.

 

[davper]

Disney definitely dropped the ball on this. I would bet you money that, after today, they will clean them off the property and away from people. I don't see how they can't at this point.
If I am right, and if they take a proactive approach to ridding them, then it could have been done, it should have been done, yesterday, two weeks ago, twenty years ago.

Can you imagine actually staying at the resort right now? At the GF? It must be horrendous.

I suspect that Disney will remove the Beach access to the water at all locations. I don't think they will remove the sandy beach. But I think they will put a retaining wall in at the water and a fence of some sort. This way they still get the beach ambiance and minimize the risk with the water.

 

[mab2012]

The problem is, the majority of guests coming to Disney do not know much, if anything about alligators. They are not even aware they're on Disney property. Disney however, does know, and knows the risk. Therefore, it is their legal responsibility to educate/warn guests about those risks. In the eyes of the law, when you know about a risk on your property and you fail to warn others coming on to your property about that risk, you are liable for any injury etc... Commercial Liability 101.

Not a layer, but I believe in the eyes of the law it comes down to whether or not the risk could or should have reasonably been foreseen, and therefore mitigated. Which then comes down to an assessment of whether a risk is significant enough to be foreseen, and what constitutes reasonable mitigation. These are not black and white questions, and even within the legal system there are bound to be varying opinions on the extent of Disney's culpability.

I don't disagree that more forceful signage seems appropriate at this stage. And it's easy to argue in retrospect that it should have been there all along, though I'd still say that given the statistics (at least as discussed in this thread), the risk was (and is) very low in any objective sense. But I really hope it doesn't swing to the extreme of permanent beach closures, or even the discontinuation of resort activities on the beach. IMO that would be an overreaction to what is, at this time, an isolated incident.

 

[mcjaco]

Except for that time it happened before... though granted it was 30 years ago and the child survived. And then, as someone else said, that time that a guest was chased by an alligator. Or the time at the MK the alligator came right onto shore. Or the fact that there are roughly a dozen attacks in Florida every year (though only an average of 5 need medical attention). So basically, no one has died before. But they have attacked before, and they have approached guests before. I realize it's not exactly high numbers, but... Disney was burying their heads in the sand, if they honestly thought it wouldn't happen at some point, knowing that the population is getting larger, and they're becoming more of a problem (more frequent in numbers) on their property.

AGAIN. Notice of prior condition. One or two incidents in 40 years is not enough via legal precedent.

It's their job to protect those people as well.

Legally, no. I'd like to see some of the pamphelts of Info folders from a room in any of these resorts. I bet there's language on maps, Info guides, etc. Trust me. There's always liability waivers on everything. Look at your next parking garage ticket next time you go to Disney. Guarantee they absolve themselves on anything on those.

So i listened to the press conference today, the Florida wildlife control said disney has full time staff members that do just that, remove gators that need to be removed. They do look for them.

You need to remember that disney has been in business for 45 years in Florida and this has never happened before.

This. Having wildlife control measures already in place, is also a strong legal defense.