"Gangs of New York" Flops

[pheneix]

In a dissappointment that is sure to surprise everyone (not!), Gangs of New York has made a big giant "flop!" at the box office, only bringing in around $2.8 million on Friday (the movie that everyone did see, The Two Towers, brought in $19.7 million).

You have to imagine that Miramax is awfully proud of themselves launching a $100 million film against LOTR right about now...

 

[Bob O]

I was going to start a post on this but was beat to it.
I saw the movie on Friday and arrived early expecting a big crowd but the movie was only half full which did surprise me.
But i thought the movie was GREAT!!!!!!!! A very well done movie that kept my attention thru-out the movie and from the responses of the people at the movie the buzz was also very good and i had few if any negative comments!!!!
I would highly reccomend the movie and thought they did a great job even though the box office may very well be disappointing.
I would much rather the disney company take a risk every now and then and attempt to produce movies of this quality(even the attempt with PH)than just produce sequels of their animated classicsand borng family fare. They ALL should have a niche in the company!!

 

[lrodk]

Disney simply picked the wrong weekend to release this film. Unlesss things change, Haunted Mansion the film will suffer the same fate. It's set to open next year on the same weekend(November 7th) as The Matrix 2. Talk about the kiss of death.

 

[Bob O]

I would tend to agree with Irodk that the timing wasnt the greatest. But the people i saw at the showing i went to were older that what i would think was the target audience for LOTR.
I saw few people young than their 30's and few young females who may have some type of attraction to Leo from his titantic fame.

 

[hopemax]

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of weekends. It may be that because of the busy holiday weekend people only had time for one movie this weekend and chose to see The Two Towers first, and plan to see Gangs when "things settle down after Wednesday." Gangs also seems like a movie that a person might want to wait to hear the reviews before going, but they already know what to expect from LOTR. Gangs reviews have been pretty positive so that should help. Whether or not Gangs will be able to pull a Titanic or Emperor's New Groove remains to be seen. I wonder what "Catch Me if You Can" will do to the picture. Hollywood is crazy...splitting the Leo fan club in two to fight the Two Towers...brilliant!

 

[treesinger]

"Gangs of New York" will come back. Count on it. It just needs the "Two Towers" openening shadow to lift first.

I've read "Catch Me if You Can" and what a fun darn story! But I think that the film is not being promoted well at all and will flop.

 

[Another Voice]

Early Buzz…

‘Gangs of New York’ had a flat out disastrous opening and will probably pull around $10 million. The final price tag on the movie is around $140 million due to reshoots, overruns and the year’s delay (more later). Obviously holiday shopping didn’t deter people from going to the theaters since half the country apparently saw ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers’. The early rumor in this morning’s email is that ‘Gangs’ is headed to the lowest opening weekend of any “major” film this year. Given its performance it will likely loose a substantial number of theaters this week. It has zero chance of digging itself out of the grave.

This film has had a long troubled history. It was originally supposed to come out last holiday season, but Miramax was concerned about its running length, Disney had post 9/11 fears, and everyone else had concerns about the quality of the film. Following the gambling strategy of “in for a penny, in for a pound”, Miramax went to Eisner for more money to “fix” the film; Eisner pumped in another rumored $30+ million.

The film was ordered cut by about 20 minutes and several new scenes were shot. In the meantime, Leo went off and filmed another movie called ‘Catch Me If You Can’. So for the last six months the two films have been playing a game of chicken with the release date. Dreamworks settled on Christmas Day for ‘Catch’, Disney originally had tagged ‘Gangs’ for Thanksgiving. Then it was late Fall. Then it was New Years. Then it was Christmas Day too. Then finally it was set for last Friday. Standard Disney executive decision making.

But what really did in this movie wasn’t the timing or the marketing or the hobbits – the movie did itself in. Who wants to see an overblown, self-indulgent, pretentious, overly long sermon about non-likeable characters in funny hats?

‘Gangs’ has all the earmarks of what I call “broccoli films” – movies no one really likes but everyone tells you how good they are for you so you try and choke them down anyway. The difference is that your parents can kind of force you to eat the broccoli, but the studios can’t make you fork over the seven bucks for the ticket. ‘Gangs’ probably would have made a fantastic $30 million art house film or a slimmer mainstream movie, but what it is at the moment is a mess.

All levels of Disney are lacking in a clear vision of “quality” these days. Too many projects are ill-conceived and then poorly executed. From the make-over of The Disney Stores to California Adventure to ‘Treasure Planet’ and now this – Disney has forgotten how to create things people want to see.

 

[Bob O]

While i usually agree with AV, in this case i agree with thedscoop!!!!
I saw the movie and thought it was great. Im disappointed that the movie didnt do as good as i believe it should have but it is a great film with characters that while maynot be as loveable as disney's cartoons,they did great acting jobs and told a very compelling story IMHO. I also thought that Road to Perdition was a great movie, but the bottom line money wise is that movies like these arent going to be financial blockbusters because adults wont see these movies a dozen times like star wars/lotr/spiderman fans do!!!
The buzz for catch me if you can is that it is a excellant movie and when you have spielberg/hanks together you have less to worry about in the marketing as they are known commidities.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Of course, alot of people will say this and that. Vultures always lurk no matter whether the dead was strong or not.

Do you wish to rename him?

From Another Voice to Another Vulture?

 

[Bob O]

As as aside i wonder how a civil war epic like Gods and Generals will do. The coming attractions looked good but it may have the same trouble as gangs as it may skew to a older audience who dont see the same movie mutiple times.

 

[lrodk]

Originally Posted by AV:

Obviously holiday shopping didn’t deter people from going to the theaters since half the country apparently saw ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers’

I saw this film last wednesday. I must say that I believe we will not see the likes of this type of film-making for some time to come. LOTR, fairly or unfairly, raises the bar for every other studio in hollywood. It is truly a master work of art. It was a pleasure to be a part of it all. I disagree with you AV regarding the timing issue of gangs vs LOTR. Any film going head to head with LOTR on it's opening weekend might as well hand over their wallets and slit their own throats.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by thedscoop
...good to see ole' Pony Boy stirring the pot three days pre-Xmas...if you're that bored Baron I got Xmas some lights on my porch which still need hung

Thanks $coop!!!

You don't know how much I look forward to your next dazzling post!!



ps: If it wasn't AV you were referring to as a Vulture, then who was it?

 

[rpink58]

With Gods and Generals, the budget is was 57million, so 10-15 million would be good .

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I thought the James Bond series of movies were broccoli? Of course I like broccoli.

I planned to see Gangs of New York...and Catch me if you can...also LOTR, Harry Potter & Bond....I guess I better get cracking. But based on revenue I will definitely go see Gangs asap & pdq...

 

[Another Voice]

From the Movie City News website (www.moviecitynews.com), a pretty decent portal for articles and postings about commercial films:

Gangs' long, tortuous road to the multiplex has been well chronicled and, while that has provided a high awareness quotient, the saga of Manhattan lawlessness during the Civil War era didn't translate into the essential "want see" column. Miramax is reporting an estimate of $9.1 million while MCN pegs it at $8.7 million. Neither number approaches the $15 million insiders at the company felt it had to attain. Hopes now are that with considerably support and award nominations, the film might reach a domestic box office of $50 million, or what Miramax will have to spend in promotion. One wag already dubbed it Heaven's Gangs and, while the film is unlikely to sink the company, it will most definitely rank as a very costly item on the negative side of its balance sheet. The wiser and highly unlikely path considering the personalities involved would be to simply cut one's losses.

The entire article, which discusses the full weekend box office results, can be found at http://www.moviecitynews.com/columnists/klady/021222.html .

It seems there are plenty of us vultures circling this one. Sorry, but the business of making movies is to judge the strength of your story against the size of your audience. While ‘Gangs’ is no doubt pleasing many who actually see it, there are simply not enough people to justify an investment of nearly $200 million for production and marketing.

And ‘Treasure Planet’ has now fallen well out of the top ten. Most estimates now have the film struggling to make a domestic box office of $35 million. That’s less than the marketing costs of the film.



While there will be a lot of long faces in New York and Burbank come Monday morning there’s going to be a very interesting meeting down on Melrose…(“However, no one quite expected the second weekend of Star Trek: Nemesis to plummet 75%.”). There is a lesson there for Disney about exactly how far you can push even the ardent fans before things fall apart.

 

[pheneix]

>>>While ‘Gangs’ is no doubt pleasing many who actually see it, there are simply not enough people to justify an investment of nearly $200 million for production and marketing.<<<

Gee, that sounds like the excuse being used for DCA (because after all, they're guest satisfaction ratings are doing just fine if you talk to the good folks at MouseInfo!)...

You know, with both Gangs and Treasure both totally nuking for Disney, you have to wonder just why in the hell the studios were being considered a "savior" for Disney in their last quarterly report.

 

[Bob O]

I would agree that the results were/are disappointing and the time of release could/should haven been thought out better!!!!
I never bought the idea that the release was delayed due to 9/11 as their is no comparsion at all to the events like their has been when they delayed the movie Phone Booth recently.
But its sad that while it is a excellant movie it wont get its due because of the box office results!!

 

[BRERALEX]

Gangs of neZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

i couldnt believe how bad it was. I still couldnt tell you what was really about since the movie lost focus half way through. Its a shame it was this bad since the acting by Daniel Day Lewis was incredible. And the ending.....come on....noone can say this was a good ending and i mean before the twin towers shot. the beginning had violence just to have violence. set to HORRIBLE music HORRIBLE music did i mention HORRIBLE music. i just love a fight back in the 1800's with progressive type music playing and blood spurting everywhere. SPOILER-and the last fight scene people walking in POOLS of blood?????? come on there wasnt that much bloodshed that we saw for there to be ankle high POOLS of blood. can we talk about Leo's accent that was there and not there and then there again. Its hard to hear him narrating since the narration has his accent but in the movie he loses it. Dicaprio takes over the church...can we get some narration to explain how this all happens....i feel like i need to do historical research to grasp everything he was going after. yeah nice little build up to a fight .......that never happens, we got jipped on that one.

i highly recommend people to see this film......on cable, maybe. i would still feel bad they lost two hours of their lives on it.

and really its a shame since Day-Lewis' performance was incredible in every scene.

Two towers...go see it twice three times just for the Helms Deep scene but Gangs you wont be missing anything.

i saw the two towers 3 times in three days. (twice on wednesday) and i still want to see it one more time on the big screen, now thats a movie

AV was right as he said on another thread that it would bomb. damn he's good.

 

[BRERALEX]

i go to the movies at least once a week sometimes two. four times when its a great film like this week with TTT.

i just wanted to ask some questions!!!

1. did you like the overall score to this film?

2. did you like the way the fighting was shot?

3. what nationality was bill the butcher?

4. if bill the butcher was such a noble fighter respecting the death of priest who he kills, why did he attack the new mayor from behind about the least noble thing you can do.

5. At one what point did Dicaprio figure out Bill killed his dad. I know in his flashback he sees part of bills face in his mind but can we get some dramatic music to show the fact. and when he did figure it out wouldnt he be outraged? he remembers the other two guys from quick flashbacks of when he was walking underground with his dad prefight.( i loved that music by the way when their walking to the fight) but then cant remember the face of the guy who killed his dad right in front of him? plus Day lewis' appearance didnt change an inch even though it was 18* years later. how could leo not recognize him off the bat.

6. how, why and what part did the asians play in this film (ex. Leo starts gettin nervous when his asian friend {who we dont even learn how there friends} is taken away during the anniversary party of the 'priests' death. I felt like i was watching Kundum for a sec.

7.didnt you wanna know more about Bill and how he came to be?

8. didnt you expect a big fight scene at the end? not that we need a BIG climactic ending but didnt you feel you were jipped after the build up by scorcese himself to a big fight? i dont need a big fight but if im built up to one for like ten minutes i want one.

9. I know why 'dead' rabbits but why rabbits? i think i just missed that.

10. would you go see it twice. did you leave the film thinking i need to see this again.

i think these would help me figure out why people think this film is so goooooooood.

 

[Another Voice]

“However, rather than being disastrous, the film actually did quite well.”

This is Hollywood and there are no absolutes – everything is relative to the cost of the film.

Nine million would be a very good opening weekend for a film that cost under $30 million to make. But for a $140+ million behemoth like ‘Gangs’, it is a disaster. And comparing the film to the likes of ‘Braveheart’ and other epics is faulty logic too – they cost a fraction of ‘Gangs’. The e-mail is buzzing already about the future of Miramax and you can hear “yea but we got ‘Chicago’!” pleadings from the soon-to-be-unemployed.

As for the critics – there have been far more positive reactions to films like ‘The Pianist’, ‘The Hours’ and ‘Far From Heaven'. But none of those films will have people lined up around the block. Because of their production costs they don’t have to either. But a bloated ‘Gangs’ needed numbers that only Hobbits can provide and those that Joe Smith, Art Critic, can’t. And remember last year how all the critics were fawning over 'A.I.'. Didn't help that one either.

I am all for taking risks, but the risks must be weighed against the quality of what you’re trying to make. For me, ‘Gangs’ was never worth the risk. It is a weak story set in a time that has no relevance for the audience. And instead of creating a story that would make that period interesting, it was turned into a trite committee-approved Hollywood political allegory. As the cost skyrocketed due to a vast self-indulgence on the creator’s part, what little edge there was to the story was hacked away to make the movie “commercial”.

In fact the original ending to the film was a big fight between Amsterdam and Bill the Butcher. People who saw the 2001 edit of the film said it worked very well and gave the film the necessary emotional ending. BUT it was reshot to make Leo a more sympathic character (i.e., to give the film a more commercial ending). Taking a weak story and then dumbing it down to pander to an audience is not risk taking – it poor filmmaking.

The worst part about this is that in order to take a gamble on the questionable ‘Gangs’, Disney flat out killed many better projects from ‘Lord of the Rings’ to ‘Into The Woods’ to the infinitely superior ‘The Alamo’ (a script that is filled with true insight and true meaning as opposed to ‘Gangs’ pedantic clichés).

Making movies is all about choices. Disney continues to make seriously bad ones. I hope, but to not expect, that the audience’s disinterest in films like ‘Gangs’, ‘Hot Chick’ and ‘Treasure Planet’ will be seen as a sign that The Company needs to do a better job.

But as long as people chant “but it’s not our fault”, I fear that it will not and poor choices will continue to be made.