Gambling Problem Solution?

[morgan98]

OP, I am not trying to be a jerk, but your updates seems to complicate matters and make even less sense to me.

I understand that you may know something about tenants' rights in New York and that is admirable, as this is another way to help and advocate for your friend. I also get that you are not married and your finances are your own. However, this friend of yours IS MARRIED and the more you continue to financially enable her, she is getting deeper and deeper into financial trouble. THIS IS THE HUSBAND's PROBLEM AND YOU ARE MAKING IT WORSE.

I get that you feel it is not your place to talk to the husband and you feel that is your boyfriend's assignment. However, you are deceiving the husband big time - just like the wife is. So unless you have some personal vendetta against the husband, you really are way overstepping your bounds in my opinion. You do not feel that it is in your duty to talk directly to the husband, yet you feel it is in your duty to screw up his financial situation without his knowledge?

I think you really need to step away.

 

[mom to minnie&mickey]

The saying "No good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind. OP how do you think the husband will react when he finds out you knew about their debts a long time ago and gave his wife money (I get you were not aware then of the gambling) and you and your boyfriend, his friend, never informed him and now the situation is much much worse. It is his life and financial stability gone done the drain and he knows (knew) nothing about it but his friends did. Everyone lied to him. You sound like a wonderful, caring person but do not be surprised that at some point somehow you become the bad guy in their eyes. You are too involved for your own good.

 

[TeresaBelle]

Wasn't planning to pay in full right off the top anymore.

I owned a property mgmt business before selling the business. The way I'm looking at the rent portion of the situation, a court ordered stipulation/payment plan will give the two of them more time to talk and act on the underlying problem, and me to observe how they deal with the situation.
Absolutely any part of the rent I pay will be made directly to the landlord. I always told my buildings that it took a full year to evict anyone who was dedicated to the process; could even take longer. Con Ed is also owed and she reneged on an existing payment plan. The two of them will need to come up with an amount that's equal in payments needed to bring the old agreement up to date for that company to make a new plan. Still haven't enough information to consider the garnishment (also don't know if it's real as it's neither signed nor has an index number listed. Could be an unscrupulous collection agency but the amt owed does show up on her credit report ) sent to her job. Also don't know yet how aware her husband is of her gambling problem; I'll know this better when the man speaks to her husband. The apt is rent stabilized so losing it would just be stupid beyond the pale.

You shouldn't be planning to pay AT ALL.

Stupid beyond the pale is the cost of the gambling addiction, and SHE has to pay it.

EVERYONE in this thread has told you you are not helping her and you say you hear us, but continue to make excuses.

 

[Sabeking]

I’m trying to understand your update. Are you saying that you are going to directly pay her landlord? If so I would think that is still enabling. She may have to really experience some hard knocks and lose her home in order to get the seriousness of this all. Your heart is in the right place but this may be more of the same.

 

[nkereina]

If you are going to pay her rent, you need to be prepared for her to eventually live with you at some point. Enabling her in that way will continue to feed her gambling addiction and she will find herself in a worse off spot down the line. She will either come to you asking for more financial help or come to you because she's homeless. Either way, she will come to you because you've enabled in the past. That's a big burden to shoulder.

I respect your loyalty and good intentions, but you have to watch out for yourself and your own family first. You can't do that by putting yourselves in that position and missing quality time with your family.

 

[mom2rtk]

OP, would you be offering money if this was a drug addiction instead of a gambling addiction?

 

[mjkacmom]

If it is a rent controlled apartment, I get not wanting them to lose it.

 

[gwynne]

If it is a rent controlled apartment, I get not wanting them to lose it.

This is the only part assistance that makes some sense to me. I still am concerned that the help that is given will only be a bandaid. I would think the chances are very high that within a year the friend will lose the apartment anyway.
And someone needs to tell the husband the whole story. Today. Waiting is only making everything worse than it already is.

 

[Searc]

OP, I am not trying to be a jerk, but your updates seems to complicate matters and make even less sense to me.

I understand that you may know something about tenants' rights in New York and that is admirable, as this is another way to help and advocate for your friend. I also get that you are not married and your finances are your own. However, this friend of yours IS MARRIED and the more you continue to financially enable her, she is getting deeper and deeper into financial trouble. THIS IS THE HUSBAND's PROBLEM AND YOU ARE MAKING IT WORSE.

I get that you feel it is not your place to talk to the husband and you feel that is your boyfriend's assignment. However, you are deceiving the husband big time - just like the wife is. So unless you have some personal vendetta against the husband, you really are way overstepping your bounds in my opinion. You do not feel that it is in your duty to talk directly to the husband, yet you feel it is in your duty to screw up his financial situation without his knowledge?

I think you really need to step away.

I 100% agree.

 

[Miffy]

NYCgrrl,

Your friend has a rent-stabilized apartment and she has gambled away her rent money. As a longtime NYC resident and renter--I now own--I would've starved to death before not paying rent on a rent-regulated apartment. This shows me (and you) just how deep a problem your friend's gambling actually is.

I don't even know you, but you're a fellow New Yorker and Disney lover, so I want to send you some love.

My former advice still stands. I think you should stay away from your friend's financial woes. She's only going to become more and more dependent on you . . . and it's highly unlikely she's going to stop gambling. This is one of the hardest addictions to break. Gambling is everywhere and anyone who hasn't been involved with a gambler thinks that it's just kind of a frivolous hobby. I mean, Las Vegas is a huge vacation destination, and--this is just a guess--but I guess that most people who go are there to gamble. Yes, they're doing other things, but they're gambling, which is basically giving your money to the casino for a few minutes or hours of "fun."

Your friend likes this kind of fun. The gambler I knew used to say "I need the action." I propped him up for a long time--naive me--before realizing that he was always going to be a gambler, was always going to be getting money from me (or stealing money from me--he did that too) and nothing was ever going to change.

Yes, your friend might change. But right now? I don't think so. Not based on everything you've told us, your stranger-friends here on the DIS.

If I were you, I'd take the money you're contemplating using to bail out your friend and take a trip to WDW or DLR or TDL or even, I don't know, Anchorage, Alaska instead. Trenton, New Jersey (just kidding about Trenton). She's calling on you for help? Give her the time and date of the next Gamblers Anonymous meeting in her area and accompany her if you must. That would perhaps be helpful. But only if she wants to change.

 

[barkley]

i don't know that it's just a freaky coincidence or not but my gut sez there's something to the timing of the friend's 2 requests. the first time it's right after the o/p comes into money selling a home/business and the friend is not forthcoming about the gambling addiction, she fails to repay and then things suddenly are on the brink of disaster identically timed to when the o/p is just about to leave the country on a planned vacation which in most cases would have created a situation where the 'lender' wouldn't have the time to spend questioning what the money was for, delve into why their prior loan wasn't used for the purpose they were borrowed-just, if they were willing and able to-get money to the friend and ask questions later.

a good friend as the o/p describes this person as being would be intimately aware of the timing of the sales as well as the planned vacation. that both align with her 'brink of disaster' moments are indicative to me that she is playing the o/p, and now that the o/p has abandoned her vacation and is trying to put out the fires, the friend will do/say anything to get the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ so that she can continue as she has in the past (and the o/p may be one of a network of people she is playing in this manner).

 

[Miffy]

i don't know that it's just a freaky coincidence or not but my gut sez there's something to the timing of the friend's 2 requests. the first time it's right after the o/p comes into money selling a home/business and the friend is not forthcoming about the gambling addiction, she fails to repay and then things suddenly are on the brink of disaster identically timed to when the o/p is just about to leave the country on a planned vacation which in most cases would have created a situation where the 'lender' wouldn't have the time to spend questioning what the money was for, delve into why their prior loan wasn't used for the purpose they were borrowed-just, if they were willing and able to-get money to the friend and ask questions later.

a good friend as the o/p describes this person as being would be intimately aware of the timing of the sales as well as the planned vacation. that both align with her 'brink of disaster' moments are indicative to me that she is playing the o/p, and now that the o/p has abandoned her vacation and is trying to put out the fires, the friend will do/say anything to get the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ so that she can continue as she has in the past (and the o/p may be one of a network of people she is playing in this manner).

I wish I didn't agree with this, however, I do agree with this. OP, listen up. Those of us who are not directly involved have insight into this that you, as an involved party, can't hope to have. And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's just the way life is. The more deeply involved one is, the less clearly one can see what's really going on.

 

[NYCgrrl]

The man spoke with her husband last night. Apparently he is aware of the the debts as well as her gambling problem.
She joined a support group earlier this year and to the best of his knowledge hasn't slipped up yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if she falls back at some point since it seems it happens quite a bit with recovering addicts.

Her husband was surprised she told me about the problem and gladdened since it seems it's part of the therapy to tell others even though he knows she hasn't told their parents yet.
Everything else is on hold until I meet with them this weekend.

 

[mom to minnie&mickey]

The man spoke with her husband last night. Apparently he is aware of the the debts as well as her gambling problem.
She joined a support group earlier this year and to the best of his knowledge hasn't slipped up yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if she falls back at some point since it seems it happens quite a bit with recovering addicts.

Her husband was surprised she told me about the problem and gladdened since it seems it's part of the therapy to tell others even though he knows she hasn't told their parents yet.
Everything else is on hold until I meet with them this weekend.

Her telling you about her gambling had nothing to do with her "therapy" and all to do with your open wallet $$$! Both times. Is he aware of your previous monetary help to his wife of which she used to continue gambling? Way back when he did not know anything. How do you know you are the only one helping her financially, perhaps she is also milking other kind hearted folks who also think they are the only ones who can help her. You will never get the truth. Addicts are expert liars. Help her arrange professional help if you must and then run, don't walk away. This situation smells awful!

 

[NYCgrrl]

i don't know that it's just a freaky coincidence or not but my gut sez there's something to the timing of the friend's 2 requests. the first time it's right after the o/p comes into money selling a home/business and the friend is not forthcoming about the gambling addiction, she fails to repay and then things suddenly are on the brink of disaster identically timed to when the o/p is just about to leave the country on a planned vacation which in most cases would have created a situation where the 'lender' wouldn't have the time to spend questioning what the money was for, delve into why their prior loan wasn't used for the purpose they were borrowed-just, if they were willing and able to-get money to the friend and ask questions later.

a good friend as the o/p describes this person as being would be intimately aware of the timing of the sales as well as the planned vacation. that both align with her 'brink of disaster' moments are indicative to me that she is playing the o/p, and now that the o/p has abandoned her vacation and is trying to put out the fires, the friend will do/say anything to get the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ so that she can continue as she has in the past (and the o/p may be one of a network of people she is playing in this manner).

I'll agree that the first request was probably tied to the sale of the apartment and driven largely by her addiction. There's nobody who knows us that wasn't aware when it happened. No, she didn't tell me about the gambling then but it was the perfect time to ask and I did know the need was real on certain levels. Her mom had health problems then (still in fact) as did my mother and we spent a lot of time talking about what it meant to us.

She was not aware of this summer's trip though as the only people I told IRL were immediate family and people I planned to see in Europe. She probably thought we were camping or @ Disney. She knows some of my sisters but if she called either they would have mentioned it to me. Based on what I see of her finances many of them just came to a head at this point; common when you are trying to juggle too many bills at the same time.

An addiction often leads people to act outside of their better selves.

 

[Miffy]

The man spoke with her husband last night. Apparently he is aware of the the debts as well as her gambling problem.
She joined a support group earlier this year and to the best of his knowledge hasn't slipped up yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if she falls back at some point since it seems it happens quite a bit with recovering addicts.

Her husband was surprised she told me about the problem and gladdened since it seems it's part of the therapy to tell others even though he knows she hasn't told their parents yet.
Everything else is on hold until I meet with them this weekend.

NYCgrrl, It's possible I've missed a finer point here, but if she quit gambling earlier this year and hasn't slipped up yet, then it's odd--to say the least--that she owes so much rent money that she's on the verge of losing her apartment. Because it'd take a few months of not-paying rent before a landlord would take action. I mean, you know that. But, as I said, perhaps I've missed one of the salient facts on this. Even if she has massive debt in other areas, which I suspect she does, the rent gets paid first. Any fool knows that. You need a roof over your head, no matter what. She and her husband could declare bankruptcy and they wouldn't take her rental apartment away from her.

 

[nkereina]

She and her husband could declare bankruptcy and they wouldn't take her rental apartment away from her.

This. She really just needs to declare bankruptcy and be done with it. If you want to lend her money, cover her bankruptcy attorney fees. The sooner she declares, the sooner she can start to re-build. Of course, this will only be effective if she takes initiative to help her addiction.

 

[morgan98]

NYCgrrl, It's possible I've missed a finer point here, but if she quit gambling earlier this year and hasn't slipped up yet, then it's odd--to say the least--that she owes so much rent money that she's on the verge of losing her apartment. Because it'd take a few months of not-paying rent before a landlord would take action. I mean, you know that. But, as I said, perhaps I've missed one of the salient facts on this. Even if she has massive debt in other areas, which I suspect she does, the rent gets paid first. Any fool knows that. You need a roof over your head, no matter what. She and her husband could declare bankruptcy and they wouldn't take her rental apartment away from her.

I think the answer lies in the original post. The OP gave money to the gambler earlier in the year, not knowing that she was using it for gambling. Just recently (and the OP stayed home from vacation because of it) the gambler admitted that she has a gambling problem and is way behind in rent etc.. In other posts, it was also mentioned that the wife has not told the husband.

So may take on it is yes, the husband knows there is a problem. The wife said she is in treatment and has not fallen off the wagon. Except she has fallen off the wagon and that is why she is asking the OP for additional funds. But, the gambler has not admitted that she has slipped to the husband.

 

[sk!mom]

I'll agree that the first request was probably tied to the sale of the apartment and driven largely by her addiction. There's nobody who knows us that wasn't aware when it happened. No, she didn't tell me about the gambling then but it was the perfect time to ask and I did know the need was real on certain levels. Her mom had health problems then (still in fact) as did my mother and we spent a lot of time talking about what it meant to us.
An addiction often leads people to act outside of their better selves.

You realize all of this yet you are ready to lend/give her more money. I’m dumbfounded.

She’s taking advantage of you, you are aware of this, yet you keep coming back for more.

Honestly, direct her to a gamblers support group and Move one.

The way she has. and continues to, taken Advantage of your friendship, my new advice is to distance yourself from her.

Ask yourself why you feel the need to “save” her? What is your payoff?

 

[kimblebee]

I do clearly hear what you are saying (all of you!) and have no intentions of bailing her out completely as I did in the past. Some time sensitive debts will be dealt with that impact her home and job (garnishments/forfeitures have been issued as well as a legal demand for rent). I'm not involving self in her other debts at this time. Her husband will be made fully aware of the the entire situation and not just the consequences of her addiction.
She has a lot of fixing to do that goes far past money and of course it must include her husband as well but the two of them trying to do this from a homeless shelter w/o one of them having a job might not be the best response.

She sent me a text today from work and I hope my answer is going to better impress on her and her DH
the severity of the situation.
(Abridged version):

She: ..."I think I should call my landlord today and buy some time...."

Me: "Your landlord already issued a 3 day notice that's expired. Give me the full legal address of your building and name(s) the lease is in so I can check to see if it's already in the courthouse".

Went thru my notes from the last time she needed money and see a definite difference in who she owes . Last time it was all c/c bills and a loan. Now she's in debt for them plus her residence. Shows me that the gambling problem touches her more than the past. I believe she is already at or close to her bottom what with her inability to open "dangerous" to her mail, or be seen socially. Not going to take all the pressure off by giving her the funds directly. Home in danger? I'll write a check directly to the landlord and utilities and note that it's a loan in the memo line. Her debtors won't read it or care but she and her husband will.
The man will speak to her husband tonight as those two know each other best. I wish the man could be here for the talk on Saturday but it can't wait until he returns to the US.

For what it's worth the ex had "multiple chemical dependencies" in the parlance of Al-anon. Unfortunately, already too well schooled in the ways of certain types of addicts and extremely sorry to hear it extends to those with gambling problems also.

I know she MUST make certain decisions for herself, what many of signs are, and sincerely thank all who reminded me.
Not looking forward to the talk but adults have to do unpleasant things at time.

PS- @DisneyHardin - No husband for me to consult. Divorced him about 30 years ago and I'm not good at repeating mistakes. I rarely discuss funds with the pool boy as I sometimes call the man; don't want to ruffle his hair fringe or glaucoma-ed blue eyes....

You check her credit report?? You are way too involved in this.

o/t but if I were your ‘the man’ I’d be pretty mad to be referred to this way.

I think your willingness and desire to help your friend is admirable. But you are not going to be her savior or the one that miraculously turns this around. I think you're going to lose a lot more money and possibly a friendship. If your friend truly wanted help, her husband would already be aware of how bad this situation is and working with her to fix it. She reached out to you hoping you would help her again without involving her husband. Paying down part of her debt, regardless of whether it goes directly to the creditors instead of her, is continuing to enable the situation.

I hope your friend decides to get the help that she needs. Watching people struggle with any addiction is devastating, especially when it is someone you care about.

I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s sounding more and more like the OP wants to be looked at as the savour. Oh, what a good friend am I, saving my friend like this. I did it once before too, don’t you know. It’s ok, though, because I have enough money to delay a trip to Europe.

You realize all of this yet you are ready to lend/give her more money. I’m dumbfounded.

She’s taking advantage of you, you are aware of this, yet you keep coming back for more.

Honestly, direct her to a gamblers support group and Move one.

The way she has. and continues to, taken Advantage of your friendship, my new advice is to distance yourself from her.

Ask yourself why you feel the need to “save” her? What is your payoff?

BINGO. Her payoff is this thread with everyone saying how wonderful she is.

You shouldn't be planning to pay AT ALL.

Stupid beyond the pale is the cost of the gambling addiction, and SHE has to pay it.

EVERYONE in this thread has told you you are not helping her and you say you hear us, but continue to make excuses.

Getting praise can be an addiction too.