Galloway Method/Magic Mile and Garmin

[rpcvpanama]

When training for an event using the Galloway method and a Garmin GPS watch do you find it necessary to do the Magic Miles recommended by Galloway? I am currious because my Garmin essentially tells me the miles/min pace that I maintain throughout the run.

Thanks for any responses.

 

[DoctorK]

The Magic Mile is supposed to be a mile during your run in which you are essentially running as fast as you can. You should be timing the mile, rather than checking your pace during it. You might have a lap-timer or something on your watch that you can use for this, but you're going to have to actually run the fast mile.

 

[paxsarah]

Agreed. The magic mile is a tool to help you determine where you are in your training and to help you set up your training and race paces. The nice thing is that if you have a Garmin, you can use it to clock the mile and you can do it on a flat road or path rather than going to a track or marked trail, but regardless, you still have to run one mile as fast as you can.

 

[Dug720]

When training for an event using the Galloway method and a Garmin GPS watch do you find it necessary to do the Magic Miles recommended by Galloway? I am currious because my Garmin essentially tells me the miles/min pace that I maintain throughout the run.

Thanks for any responses.

Personally I don't do it. I also stopped using his plans after the 2011 DL Half when his prescribed 2/1 based on my pace drove me batty. I use Jenny Hadfield's run/walk plan with longer intervals that suit my body better.

 

[bumbershoot]

Personally I don't do it. I also stopped using his plans after the 2011 DL Half when his prescribed 2/1 based on my pace drove me batty. I use Jenny Hadfield's run/walk plan with longer intervals that suit my body better.

FWIW the "finish in the upright position" training plans I'm using for TOT and the Half don't tell you to do any sort of ratio of run/walk. They just give ideas and tell you the miles and/or amount of time to do things. I don't know if he has changed how he does his training plans since 2011, but I don't feel he has told me to do any particular one thing, in terms of my ratio, at all.

 

[DoctorK]

He doesn't dictate a ratio based upon your pace; he lists your likely pace given various ratios. 2 min run/1 min walk would translate to a pace of around 12 mins/ mile, etc.

 

[paxsarah]

He doesn't dictate a ratio based upon your pace; he lists your likely pace given various ratios. 2 min run/1 min walk would translate to a pace of around 12 mins/ mile, etc.

No, he does suggest a ratio based on your pace. On his website, he says, "Run-walk-run ratio should correspond to the pace used" - so your pace determines the ratio you should use based on his chart. However, as I understand it he's supportive of people tweaking the ratios as needed. I use a different ratio for a 13.1 at the end of a half-ironman vs. a stand-alone 13.1 vs. a marathon. I'm going to run a different pace at 2:00/1:00 than someone else who has a different running pace (and mine is not going to be a 12 minute mile). I use his ratios as a jumping off point but I don't consider them set in stone.

 

[John VN]

Plug in the actual numbers you would like to maintain.....http://www.endocrinology-online.com/Content/Ultramarathon.html

McFlurry John

 

[cewait]

Good to see that one of my old spreadsheets did some good.

rpcvpanama: As mentioned above, the MM is a test to see what pace you are capable of the the half or full. I think it worth your while to do at least one in training on a day in the schedule and that you feel good.

Is it a good predictor of race pace? It may be for some. I think it a better measure for you on a personal scale. It gives you a statistical point to judge improvement through the training season. Or in the alternative, let's you know that a nagging ache, pain or illness is causing a performance issue.

Is it important to complete if your average pace is well within bounds of the minimum race pace? No. Keep training and just get your long run miles in if you prefer.

 

[RnbwSktles]

Personally, I plan to skip the MM portions. I used Galloway's training plan as a guide for my marathon training, but I am not following it exactly. I have completed 15 miles so far in training with no issues and all of my runs have an average pace of 12min/mile. I feel very comfortable with that.

 

[wiigirl]

Plug in the actual numbers you would like to maintain.....http://www.endocrinology-online.com/Content/Ultramarathon.html

McFlurry John

Thanks!

 

[DoctorK]

On his website, he says, "Run-walk-run ratio should correspond to the pace used"

His website says it should correspond to the training pace used, but I think that's poorly written. He's stated many times he does a 1-1 or even :30/:30 himself and he's finishing at a much faster clip than 13:00/mile.

I settled on intervals that felt comfortable to me, and I have found that they translate pretty well to the paces he has listed in his chart. When I did a 2/1 I was around 12:00/mile, and when I changed to 3/1 I am closer to 10:00/mile.

 

[MouseDogMom]

A couple of points...

The Magic Mile is designed to be run at 80-85% of your maximum effort, not as fast as you can. When you finish the mile, you should still be capable of running more, but not much. It is a useful tool for determining your PREDICTED finish times for both the half and full marathon, when run under proper conditions (no injuries, etc.)

Once you've determined your pace, then you figure your training pace (per Galloway, 2 minutes per mile slower) and adjust the intervals accordingly. But, as many have said, it's all up to the individual. Generally, shorter intervals correspond to slower times, but Jeff is running much faster times with :30/:30 intervals. People who have run with him say he is FAST during the run segment.

I run with a Galloway program locally and am a group leader for one of the pace groups. We obviously have to adhere strictly to the posted intervals for each group during our training runs, but once we get to our races, we all do our own thing. I tend to use shorter intervals during races, similar to what Jeff is doing now. And as skeptical as I was about the MM, last year I took an average of the 4 that we ran during the season, plugged it into Jeff's spreadsheet to find my predicted race times, and it was absolutely dead on for the 5K, half, and full. Scary.

Jackie

 

[cewait]

A couple of points...

The Magic Mile is designed to be run at 80-85% of your maximum effort, not as fast as you can. When you finish the mile, you should still be capable of running more, but not much. It is a useful tool for determining your PREDICTED finish times for both the half and full marathon, when run under proper conditions (no injuries, etc.)

Once you've determined your pace, then you figure your training pace (per Galloway, 2 minutes per mile slower) and adjust the intervals accordingly. But, as many have said, it's all up to the individual. Generally, shorter intervals correspond to slower times, but Jeff is running much faster times with :30/:30 intervals. People who have run with him say he is FAST during the run segment.

I run with a Galloway program locally and am a group leader for one of the pace groups. We obviously have to adhere strictly to the posted intervals for each group during our training runs, but once we get to our races, we all do our own thing. I tend to use shorter intervals during races, similar to what Jeff is doing now. And as skeptical as I was about the MM, last year I took an average of the 4 that we ran during the season, plugged it into Jeff's spreadsheet to find my predicted race times, and it was absolutely dead on for the 5K, half, and full. Scary.

Jackie

I ran 3 miles with hime (kind of) in the inaugural W&D and then passed him and was repassed about 9 miles later the following marathon in January.

He was injured in the W&D and was running a very slow sub 8 mm pace on the run. Surprizingly, his walk pace was well over a 20 minute pace. He was running 30/30 due to the injury. He was trying to convince me to get off the 9/1 I was running. I think I ended up pulling away because he was also waiting on his wife as well though I thought I may have caught a glimpse of him along the darkened sections of the Yc/Bc stretch.

 

[paxsarah]

His website says it should correspond to the training pace used, but I think that's poorly written. He's stated many times he does a 1-1 or even :30/:30 himself and he's finishing at a much faster clip than 13:00/mile.

I settled on intervals that felt comfortable to me, and I have found that they translate pretty well to the paces he has listed in his chart. When I did a 2/1 I was around 12:00/mile, and when I changed to 3/1 I am closer to 10:00/mile.

Right. I'm just saying that you can't look at his chart and say, I'd like to run a 9 minute mile, so I'm going to run a 4/1, which is what it sounded like you were saying above. He intends you to determine your training pace via the magic mile (or maybe you PRed a 5K and plugged that number into McMillan, it's another perfectly valid method to get a realistic range for training paces), then choose your run/walk interval based on your pace on the chart. Though he has certainly demonstrated that using a shorter run interval can be a good choice; I'm not sure he recommends using a longer run interval than in the chart, but obviously people can and should use what works best for them in their training. There is a sweet spot where the ratio is giving someone their best overall pace, and extending the run segment longer can actually slow down that pace - which can seem counterintuitive (especially to those who've never tried run/walk). I think Galloway is saying that based on his experience, his chart represents that sweet spot for the majority of people, but of course there are exceptions.

After PRing in a half marathon last fall using 4/1, I actually tweaked my intervals and found that 2:00/:30 was more comfortable for me - same ratio, but shorter runs and recoveries. My conditioning was such that I could recover adequately in 30 seconds, and I enjoyed the shorter run segments. Now, a minute walking seems interminably long to me. So I'm certainly a fan of tweaking, starting out with the chart and modifying as necessary.

 

[nervous1sttimer]

Sorry, not a Galloway or run/walk follower myself, but I'm aiming to break 2 hours in a half marathon I have coming up. Is the MM assumption that if in training I can run a mile in 8 min 45 sec, I will be able to maintain that pace for the whole race?

 

[paxsarah]

Sorry, not a Galloway or run/walk follower myself, but I'm aiming to break 2 hours in a half marathon I have coming up. Is the MM assumption that if in training I can run a mile in 8 min 45 sec, I will be able to maintain that pace for the whole race?

No. The magic mile is a mile you run at almost full speed, then you apply a factor to determine what your race and training paces would be for, say, a half marathon or marathon. You can do this periodically to check your progress, and he suggests running a magic mile several times over a period of time and using the average in his formula. He provides an overview and calculator on his website: http://www.jeffgalloway.com/resources/gallracepredict.html

 

[nervous1sttimer]

Ok, so last night I ran 7 miles (stupidly did not grab my overall time) with the intention of running 3 miles hard (ie Magic Miles).

I ran 1 mile easy, 1 mile hard, .5 easy, .5 tempo, 1 hard, .5 mile easy, .5 mile tempo, 1 hard, 1 tempo. I measured the mile markers beforehand to be sure.

My hard/MM times were 7:56, 8:05, 8:14. Does that fit the Galloway chart to finish a half in 6 weeks under 2 hours?

 

[nervous1sttimer]

Ugh. I just plugged all three into that calculator and found out they do not.

 

[cewait]

Ok, so last night I ran 7 miles (stupidly did not grab my overall time) with the intention of running 3 miles hard (ie Magic Miles).

I ran 1 mile easy, 1 mile hard, .5 easy, .5 tempo, 1 hard, .5 mile easy, .5 mile tempo, 1 hard, 1 tempo. I measured the mile markers beforehand to be sure.

My hard/MM times were 7:56, 8:05, 8:14. Does that fit the Galloway chart to finish a half in 6 weeks under 2 hours?

Ugh. I just plugged all three into that calculator and found out they do not.

But then you did not follow Jeff's protocol either. I would estimate that you could have dropped a 5-10 seconds a mile off your times without the tempo spin up. In addition since you are running tempo segments, I would guess you head out and run midweek runs with a little more purpose than Jeff's "run 45 minutes". If your race weather is not stifling and you manage pace well in the first 9 miles, you will break 2 hours.