Galloway after straight up running?

[marathonmommy]

Hi,
Am finishing up training for the Philly Rock and Roll Half and the Wine and Dine Half. Have been running the whole thing....
Then, Jeff Galloway comes along as the official "coach" for the WDW Marathon, and I have a renewed interest in his plan - and maybe even doing the full this winter. So, have any of you gone from "running the whole thing - or half" to doing the run/walk thing instead. The full seems much more manageable with this plan. Do those of you have done this really keep close to the same pace with the running breaks? I'm thinking of converting....pros or cons?

 

[Rose&Mike]

We have been flirting with the galloway plan for several weeks now. Here are my thoughts.

We started looking at run/walking in July when we found that during our short runs during the week when the temp was in the 90s that we actually were getting better times and feeling better when we walked for part of the run. We run in a park and the first two miles we would run and then the last two we would run 5 light poles walk one. So Mike got some books and started looking into it. We tried a long run on August 14 (temp was 75 at 6:00 in the morning) and had one of our best long run times all summer--7.2 miles in 1:23 for a pace of 11:32. (It was already in the 80s by the time we finished.) We used our garmin to time the intervals and ran 4 min walked one. We both felt good about the run, but didn't feel like we got the same calm feeling that comes after a long run, if that makes sense.

Saturday I ran my first 1/2 race. (We've run 13.1 as a training run before, but this was my first race.) I felt great until mile 12 and then I hit the wall. The last mile was torture. We finished with a time of 2:24:55, which I was pleased with, but boy it was hard at the end. We were waffling about whether to run or run/walk the W&D but after Saturday--with great weather and cool temps--I am convinced it is worth trying, because I know it will be much warmer at WDW. The plan is to run/walk the first 7 or 8 and run the rest. We'll see how it goes. It's a huge mental shift, but I am starting to think that if I ever want to go more than 13 miles, I am going to have to do something different. Between what we observed on our short runs this summer and the one long run we did this way, I think it will work great for us. Will I do every long run this way--probably not. But I was in tears at the end of the race on Saturday, and I will try anything to avoid feeling that dead at the end of a race again.

Good luck!

 

[cewait]

It is easier to convert to a run walk than go the other way. I have run fulls and halves both ways and am not convinced that either is ‘better’. It’s funny that even many of the die hard, ain’t no way I would do the Galloway method runners actually practice the method in a race. Just listen to the talk and see how many straight through runners actually walk the water stops.

I digress. You should attempt to keep to the same slow run pace, possibly cutting just a few seconds off the pace. I would tweak and tune to find a run distance that suites you and your style. I am not sure what your pace is but look at Jeff’s suggested r/w ratios for your current pace. Feel free to tweak and not get so focused on the exact ratio.

If were to walk into my shop and explain that you are new to an endurance distance I would suggest r/w without much consultation. You would have to push to start a straight out run. The r/w method just breaks the run into very manageable bite sized segments that make the run seem to go faster.
If you are a Garmin runner, I would suggest one thing… figure out your distance covered by the run + walk and set your garmin to lap at that distance. It is not 100% critical to be exact but close. For me I train at a 10:1 interval – roughly equating to a mile. So I set my Garmin to lap at a mile distance. The Garmin alarms at the mile and I walk a minute or roughly 0.06 miles then run til the unit beeps again.

I support moving to the R/W method for your first full

 

[marathonmommy]

It is easier to convert to a run walk than go the other way. I have run fulls and halves both ways and am not convinced that either is ‘better’. It’s funny that even many of the die hard, ain’t no way I would do the Galloway method runners actually practice the method in a race. Just listen to the talk and see how many straight through runners actually walk the water stops.

I digress. You should attempt to keep to the same slow run pace, possibly cutting just a few seconds off the pace. I would tweak and tune to find a run distance that suites you and your style. I am not sure what your pace is but look at Jeff’s suggested r/w ratios for your current pace. Feel free to tweak and not get so focused on the exact ratio.

If were to walk into my shop and explain that you are new to an endurance distance I would suggest r/w without much consultation. You would have to push to start a straight out run. The r/w method just breaks the run into very manageable bite sized segments that make the run seem to go faster.
If you are a Garmin runner, I would suggest one thing… figure out your distance covered by the run + walk and set your garmin to lap at that distance. It is not 100% critical to be exact but close. For me I train at a 10:1 interval – roughly equating to a mile. So I set my Garmin to lap at a mile distance. The Garmin alarms at the mile and I walk a minute or roughly 0.06 miles then run til the unit beeps again.

I support moving to the R/W method for your first full

Hi Coach,
I am about an 11 minute mile when going more than 5 miles. I do have a Garmin 405. Would you suggest I just run the Wine and Dine as I have trained for, or switch to the run/walk? I am excited at the thought of walk breaks for the full! (I did complete a full in 2005 but it was a pathetic attempt and hot as hell. I didn't train properly and barely made it. I barely made it walking. I think I would consider this one coming up to be my "first" real one!)

 

[marathonmommy]

We have been flirting with the galloway plan for several weeks now. Here are my thoughts.

We started looking at run/walking in July when we found that during our short runs during the week when the temp was in the 90s that we actually were getting better times and feeling better when we walked for part of the run. We run in a park and the first two miles we would run and then the last two we would run 5 light poles walk one. So Mike got some books and started looking into it. We tried a long run on August 14 (temp was 75 at 6:00 in the morning) and had one of our best long run times all summer--7.2 miles in 1:23 for a pace of 11:32. (It was already in the 80s by the time we finished.) We used our garmin to time the intervals and ran 4 min walked one. We both felt good about the run, but didn't feel like we got the same calm feeling that comes after a long run, if that makes sense.

Saturday I ran my first 1/2 race. (We've run 13.1 as a training run before, but this was my first race.) I felt great until mile 12 and then I hit the wall. The last mile was torture. We finished with a time of 2:24:55, which I was pleased with, but boy it was hard at the end. We were waffling about whether to run or run/walk the W&D but after Saturday--with great weather and cool temps--I am convinced it is worth trying, because I know it will be much warmer at WDW. The plan is to run/walk the first 7 or 8 and run the rest. We'll see how it goes. It's a huge mental shift, but I am starting to think that if I ever want to go more than 13 miles, I am going to have to do something different. Between what we observed on our short runs this summer and the one long run we did this way, I think it will work great for us. Will I do every long run this way--probably not. But I was in tears at the end of the race on Saturday, and I will try anything to avoid feeling that dead at the end of a race again.

Good luck!

Thanks for sharing! I'm liking the idea of the run/walk more and more!

 

[cewait]

Hi Coach,
I am about an 11 minute mile when going more than 5 miles. I do have a Garmin 405. Would you suggest I just run the Wine and Dine as I have trained for, or switch to the run/walk? I am excited at the thought of walk breaks for the full! (I did complete a full in 2005 but it was a pathetic attempt and hot as hell. I didn't train properly and barely made it. I barely made it walking. I think I would consider this one coming up to be my "first" real one!)

It will not hurt to add a walk break in for the W&D. It can be as simple as walking a minute at the mile posts (or taking a photo of the mile posts) to something more elaborate as run a certain time then walk a certain time. Since you are ready for a run only event and to not overly confuse things, just try walking the mile pots and maybe aid stations.

If you find that you want you can always start back with a full run at any point on the course.

For the record, Jeff would have you at a 2:30 - 1 ratio. I think that would drive me crazy after running all the way in a few events. But having spent a couple days with Jeff, I know that he would challenge me to follow his plan of 4/0:45 for a while.

 

[marathonmommy]

It will not hurt to add a walk break in for the W&D. It can be as simple as walking a minute at the mile posts (or taking a photo of the mile posts) to something more elaborate as run a certain time then walk a certain time. Since you are ready for a run only event and to not overly confuse things, just try walking the mile pots and maybe aid stations.

If you find that you want you can always start back with a full run at any point on the course.

For the record, Jeff would have you at a 2:30 - 1 ratio. I think that would drive me crazy after running all the way in a few events. But having spent a couple days with Jeff, I know that he would challenge me to follow his plan of 4/0:45 for a while.

Since it was the first day back at school/work (and I was exhausted), I decided to try tonight's 5 miler using the Galloway method. I was not faster...in fact 15 seconds or so slower. I am usually in the mid to late 10 mpm area. For this 5 I was 11:05 per mile. Not too much of a difference, and the walking breaks made it a bit more interesting since it was new. I used the 3:1 ratio - maybe I should do a 4:1? It kills me that my time does not start with a 10...LOL!

 

[bounceliketigger]

I've tried the w/r, though not with much exactness behind it. I've found that if I walk more than 30 sec or so, I have a really hard time getting my groove back. Then I feel like I get sort of stuck into walking for about 5 minutes before I feel rejuvenated.

Yesterday I did 8 & intentionally walked the 1st mile to try to warm up my troublesome lower legs. Actually, it was a walk, jog, stretch mile. Worked great for the leg pain & stiffness, but I would do it before a race because the whole mile took me 18 minutes.

Here's a question: in terms of working your cardio-vascular system, is the w/r sort of cheating? What I mean is, if you start walking when your HR gets up there, your HR will go down, so you're not really maintaining an elevated HR for long periods of time & thus potentially not getting the maximum potential benefits.

This is a question really--speculation. I don't really know & am toying with w/r too. In training I tend to run for as long as I possibly can, then walk when I have to for as short a period as I can. Interestingly, I always end up running the entire race. Not sure how that works!!:

 

[cewait]

Since it was the first day back at school/work (and I was exhausted), I decided to try tonight's 5 miler using the Galloway method. I was not faster...in fact 15 seconds or so slower. I am usually in the mid to late 10 mpm area. For this 5 I was 11:05 per mile. Not too much of a difference, and the walking breaks made it a bit more interesting since it was new. I used the 3:1 ratio - maybe I should do a 4:1? It kills me that my time does not start with a 10...LOL!

I chalk it up to newness, fatigue, longer walks and or any of the above. I would give it a few trails. For the record, cince you are coming from a full run, I would look to longer runs and shorter walks.

I've tried the w/r, though not with much exactness behind it. I've found that if I walk more than 30 sec or so, I have a really hard time getting my groove back. Then I feel like I get sort of stuck into walking for about 5 minutes before I feel rejuvenated.

Yesterday I did 8 & intentionally walked the 1st mile to try to warm up my troublesome lower legs. Actually, it was a walk, jog, stretch mile. Worked great for the leg pain & stiffness, but I would do it before a race because the whole mile took me 18 minutes.

Here's a question: in terms of working your cardio-vascular system, is the w/r sort of cheating? What I mean is, if you start walking when your HR gets up there, your HR will go down, so you're not really maintaining an elevated HR for long periods of time & thus potentially not getting the maximum potential benefits.

This is a question really--speculation. I don't really know & am toying with w/r too. In training I tend to run for as long as I possibly can, then walk when I have to for as short a period as I can. Interestingly, I always end up running the entire race. Not sure how that works!!:

With regard to your comment on walking no more than 30 seconds or feeling the need to lock into the walk…. You are not taking your walk break early enough. Simple as that. If you program in the walks early and regularly then it actually works well.

With regard to cheating the workout… no not really – if we are talking about the long run. Your heart rate does in fact fall off from the last moment of the run and can fall 30 bpm in the walk minute; depending on fitness and cardio engine. Once you start back on the run your HR will come back to within a few beats of where it was pre-walk and then slowly come back to the peak of the last run. But on a long run one really does not want to push HR; rather you are looking to keep HR maybe 10-25% below anaerobic threshold. If one graphed a properly run r/w long run you would find that the average HR does not fall significantly from the average of the run segments alone. Further, when one looks into the physiology of the short lower intensity off-interval walks we see that the body continues to believe it is working at the same intensity it was at – as long as the off interval does not get too long.

I would submit that for you, a full race runner, you should not r/w your weekday runs. You will not maintain the required intensity required for hill, speed and tempo work. Intensity, is a creator of speed and to run fast one must train fast – on weekdays.

 

[bounceliketigger]

Wow Coach, thanks so much for taking the time for such a detailed response. You've given me a lot of food for thought.

I have a Garmin w/ a HR monitor. I haven't really used it because I find it uncomfortable, but I think I might try it to see where my HR is on a typical run & toy w/ W/R & when to do it. Is Galloway generally accepted as the staple guide?

I agree in terms of avoiding the w/r during the week. Are you saying to avoid it on race day too since i've run full races in the past? Running full really just happened because I found I could do it, but I do want to get faster....

thanks again!!!